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Harnaam Kaur Has Gone Mad


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True sangat is Guru Sahib. If Naam/Vaheguru is the love and center of your life, no bad sangat can pull you down. If everyone is capable of falling, the value of sangat cannot be that great to always keep someone eternally elevated. Guru Sahib is eternally with us, so we should put our hope and support in him. You can help an individual to strengthen their amritvela and sikhi but what happens when they stop doing sangat, they cannot do amritvela anymore and ultimately lose their sikhi? Amritvela should be solid, not a day should be missed even if we have no sangat. And Vaheguru should always be in our thoughts even while in maya- if we love him how can our thoughts lead us to go on a different path away from Vaheguru. In the end, it's just us, Guru Sahib and Vaheguru because we are all really alone and sangat cannot be there for us forever.

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You are speaking an ideal case which is not applicable to everyone. In case sangat is not available then I see your point. But if sangat is available then as instructed by Guru Sahib, one should go to sangat. Many Gursikhs have struggled without sangat and many naam abhiyasi Sikhs have found sangat to be the most beneficial for their progress and to keep them from making mistakes. Guru Sahib has spoken highly of sangat which they themselves established. So it cannot be ignored or downplayed. While Guru Sahib is eternal and with us, it is the sangat that strengthens our beliefs and faith in Guru Sahib. Sangat encourages us to practice Sikhi more and more. I never said sangat is the only solution. It is part of Sikhi and cannot be ignored. Taking your stance, how do you explain numerous people who have fallen from Sikhi? How do you explain some Sikhs who reached high avastha and then went astray? Sikhi is not an individualistic path. The whole concept of Panth goes against the very idea of doing everything all alone. A Sikh keeps Amrit Vela, does nitnem and also goes to sangat where he learns about higher avasthas and resolves his spiritual obstacles. Guru Sahib also works his kirpa through sangat.

My whole point was that if someone goes away from Sikhi, sangat should try to bring them back. Maya, haumain, mind, and five vices are very powerful. Ask any naam abhiyasi Gursikh. You may have reached the ideal avastha you speak of but not everyone has and hence, they need sangat and blessings of Guru Sahib to get there.

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In seen surat(consciousness which is facing towards sargun-seen), outside sangat is needed, but to surat(which is facing or drawn inwards or introvert) sangat is form of intuitve divine guidance consciouness within. When one surat is facing inwards and introvert, one is never lonely but alone. There is big difference between alone and lonely. Alone-ONE is whole premises of gurmat sidhant as its one and only one-Ikongkar only.

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You are speaking an ideal case which is not applicable to everyone. In case sangat is not available then I see your point. But if sangat is available then as instructed by Guru Sahib, one should go to sangat. Many Gursikhs have struggled without sangat and many naam abhiyasi Sikhs have found sangat to be the most beneficial for their progress and to keep them from making mistakes. Guru Sahib has spoken highly of sangat which they themselves established. So it cannot be ignored or downplayed. While Guru Sahib is eternal and with us, it is the sangat that strengthens our beliefs and faith in Guru Sahib. Sangat encourages us to practice Sikhi more and more. I never said sangat is the only solution. It is part of Sikhi and cannot be ignored. Taking your stance, how do you explain numerous people who have fallen from Sikhi? How do you explain some Sikhs who reached high avastha and then went astray? Sikhi is not an individualistic path. The whole concept of Panth goes against the very idea of doing everything all alone. A Sikh keeps Amrit Vela, does nitnem and also goes to sangat where he learns about higher avasthas and resolves his spiritual obstacles. Guru Sahib also works his kirpa through sangat.

My whole point was that if someone goes away from Sikhi, sangat should try to bring them back. Maya, haumain, mind, and five vices are very powerful. Ask any naam abhiyasi Gursikh. You may have reached the ideal avastha you speak of but not everyone has and hence, they need sangat and blessings of Guru Sahib to get there.

I completely agree with you. People may need sangat at the beginning to help them on the path but in my opinion it is an individualistic path as no one can make them grow their love for Guru Sahib and Vaheguru but themselves. Everyone does sangat but not everyone finds Vaheguru through sangat because it is their own effort and care that can bring them towards Vaheguru.

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Yes I agree with you with one caveat that it is the Grace of Vaheguru not self-effort that results in spiritual progress and it is the Grace that brings out the good works and efforts in us. We pray for "uddham" and God's Grace works from beginning to end resulting in our journey, progress, works and salvation. Guru Rakha

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