Hypothetical New Sikh Sect That Accepts Homosexuality

[Guest Jacfsing2]

Wow, just wow. Name calling? I thought this was Sikh forum not some trashy Desi/Asian forum.

There's nothing in SGGS ji that supports either side. This is why I said this issue has nothing to do with spiritual, but more to do with cultural. It's obvious majority of Sikhs coming from Punjabi/Indian background where homosexuality is looked down on wouldn't support Gay marriages or Gay Sikh in general. This is why homosexuality wouldn't be accepted in Sikh community not because it's wrong in spiritual/religious context.

I personally don't care enough if homosexuality is right or wrong in Sikh context, but you and anyone else on here can't stop others forming their own groups that will support homosexuality in the long term. So why bother fighting it? Why not worry on more pressing issues in our community than this issue which is turning into another "table and chairs in Gurdwara" issue?

I apologize for the name-calling, that was my Haumai which I still hold the shackles from all my life.

[Balkaar]

now you know why he's my least favorite guy on this site, (he knows that).

Really? I felt for certain that that honour would be mine.

[SheikhYoBooty]

What would you know anyways, just look at your username, how disrespectful! Did you forget our beloved Sheikh Farid?

SYB just means dance in ebonics but i wudn't expect a Hindu caste system supporter like u to know that.

Baba Farid Ji wrote Gurbani as the great Sikh they were and i never forget their contribution to Sikhi.

Baba Farid condemned all the lies that Islam + Hinduism are famous for + that u Preeet are known to believe in.

Worship of human beings like Krishna who had multiple women + slave-owning pedophile terrorists like Muhammad was hated by Baba Farid Ji. So don't go claiming (like u are prone to) that Baba Farid Ji was not a Gurmukh Sikh.

[Guest Jacfsing2]

SYB just means dance in ebonics but i wudn't expect a Hindu caste system supporter like u to know that.

Baba Farid Ji wrote Gurbani as the great Sikh they were and i never forget their contribution to Sikhi.

Baba Farid condemned all the lies that Islam + Hinduism are famous for + that u Preeet are known to believe in.

Worship of human beings like Krishna who had multiple women + slave-owning pedophile terrorists like Muhammad was hated by Baba Farid Ji. So don't go claiming (like u are prone to) that Baba Farid Ji was not a Gurmukh Sikh.

I never understood why your username was SYB? Were you registering to this forum to quickly and all the other names were taken?

[S4NGH]

That is completely unnecessary. I believe with the utmost conviction that Sikhi is the only major monotheistic religion that can accommodate homosexuals.

We, as Sikhs, keep our kes uncut because we are enjoined to accept our Satguru's design. Does the same not apply to one's sexual orientation? If one is born gay, then the 'Sikh' thing to do, in my opinion, is to accept that too.

And for those who are considering drawing comparisons between two consenting adults of the same sex having a loving relationship, and monsters who molest children, paedophilia and most other forms of sexual deviancy are acquired behaviors. Nobody is born with these proclivities. The instance of paedophilia for example is quite high among people who were sexually abused as children.

It is sad that certain elements have made Sikhi so inhospitable for some people that ideas of fantastical Sikh sects where they can finally be accepted even has to be considered.

^^^ this.

I'm rather certain I've liked every post of yours on this topic. Couldn't have put it better myself. Accept my approbation.

Though I don't completely disagree with the opposing opinion (it is easy to see where their passé view stems from), I am more favourably disposed towards your own.

Cheerio

[jugojugoatal]

Being Gay is wrong because you can't get married without having an anand karaj between a Male and a Female both are Sikh (Amritdhare is a proper sikh).

Looks like being homo is out of the question as we listen to gurus maryada ....

[Kira]

I'm actually disgusted by some of the responses by the posters here. I usually just read this forum but I felt compelled to respond here.

Being gay (homosexuality) isn't a choice. It's not something that you just decide to become, it's not circumstantial and it's defensively not something that arises from Kaam. Homosexuality isn't seeing a man and then lusting after him. The same way you would see a woman, a gay man would see a man. Guru sahib restricts us from following after Kaam, in any shape or form. There was even a dictation (a part of Gurbani I think) where Guru Tegh Bahudar Ji spoke to Guru Gobind singh Ji about a similar topic. He spoke about how it was alright for someone (in this case Guru ji) to enjoy the physical aspects of a relationship. However he warned the young Guru that he mustn't even dream of going to another. That alone should speak Volumes to the people claiming homosexuality is just lust. It isn't. Gurbani is silent on the matter, for everyone assuming that Guru Sahib should spoon feed us everything then you're honestly wrong. They provided us with the tools to go about our lives. Waheguru made gay people and they should be accepted into Sikhism, they can lead a normal life WHILE being a Sikh. Whether the anad karaj should be extended to them I'm not qualified to answer, im still young and probably unaware.

I'd like to add that the person justifying the Rehet Maryada made by the SGPC really needs to know the exact context behind it. They live in Punjab, a part of India where woman are still treated badly, the caste system exists and murders can walk away. Do you honestly think they would add into the Rehet that 2 men should get married? the mere thought of it would result in riots and protests.

[Akalifauj]

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[garch]

I'll be the first to admit that I personally don't know enough to form a concrete opinion on whether or not gay marriage is permitted by the Gurus.

All I know is that calling them paapis/sinners is definitely against the principles of Sikhism, and goes against the whole concept of "indiscriminate love"

agreed!

The most sensible comment ive read of urs.

Where there is no clear mention by guru sahibs we have to use precedents..

Guru sahib hasn't left any clear evidence in support of or against homosexuals so we shouldn't try speak for them and condemn homosexuals. we are equals.

There is certainly no mention of maharaj blessing a homosexual union so sikhs cannot utilise sggs in any sort of a ceremony to do this either. If anyone tries im sure they will meet with the sharp edge of a kirpan!

My view - sexual orientation (whichever way) is a natural impulse as are most of ours desires. But like any of our primitive/karnal desires we can suppress them if they don't take us closer to/or create barriers between our end goal.

Sikhs should accept gays the same as heteros but should reject any anti gurmat practice just as they should with heteros (unfortunately we don't bash our mates as much for getting it on with their opposite sex gf/bf before marriage).

truth is I pity homosexuals (not that they want my pity), most unfortunately probably lead a difficult and challenging existence because of the ignorance of man and their inability to accept Wahegurus bhana.

A new sect wouldn't be needed as any true gurmukh would treat homos/heteros exactly the same.

[Kira]

I feel the same way when posters like yourself misinterpret Gurbani by adding your opinion. Look below how you have butchered the advice given to Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji by his father. No where in the shabad does it say enjoy the physical aspect of marriage. To try to clever by saying, i think this is what his father said to him. This shows a lack of interest to find the truth in Gurbani and present it accurately. Do you prepare for secular educational test in the same manner? Never, you make sure to have the right answer for the test.

I prepare for tests by taking what im taught and applying it to whatever question that may come up, I have no idea which kind of tests you take/taken but the ones im used to aren't simply "What is X?"

Guru Sahib was given the advice to love and respect his wife. And never share the bed of another woman, why would Guru Tegh Bahudar Ji advice his son never to share another woman's bed if he wasn't implying beforehand that loving your wife does encompass a physical aspect. If that aspect however engulfs someone then it is Kaam.

Gurbani also says not to give into sexual instinct. Meaning giving into homosexual behavior is wrong as you consider it to be a natural event to be homosexual. Read ang 274 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

The same is said for heterosexual encounters. You keep confusing Kaam with anything sex related.

Gurbani is not silent on the matter. Gurbani says to marry a woman and not even in your dreams go to another woman's bed. What makes you think physical relationship outside of marriage is right in Sikhi after sri guru Gobind singh Ji received this truth from his father? Marriage in Sikhi is not about sexual preferences. The Guru is telling every Sikh whether gay or not to marry a woman and if not going to marry. Then devote yourself more to the panth in a different manner. Many Sikhs, who were heterosexual did not marry and indulge in a relationship with the opposite gender.

Marriage is the union of 2 souls, it's spiritual, Love can be expressed in non-sexual ways. i have never said that a physical relationship outside of marriage is right, please dont put words in my mouth. I was addressing all this "gay is clearly kaam based" nonsense. You're taking the literal meaning off it and refusing to explore what it actually means. The advice was to encourage faithfulness and devotion. the 5 evils we are warned about are caused mostly by an increase of a certain thing or virtue.

Can you name one Gursikh from Guru Ji's time who was homosexual? I'm not trying to smart here, im actually intrigued by this.

No one is stoning homosexuals to death. They can conquer there urges as heterosexual Sikhs have too outside of marriage. Mistakes are made by heterosexual and also by homosexuals but a mistake is not to be accepted as a correct action because homosexuals "rights" is a new hot topic in the world today.

Of course they can. We all can, the vices are the biggest demons in all our lives.

Guru sahib in punjab was the first to ffree women from slavery. Your western brainwashing has gotten to your head.

What has that got to do with anything? The Guru's accomplished many great social changes in their times. But that has nothing to do with the Rehet maryada which was written up a good few decades ago (1950s) I believe. It was created by the Sikh Sangat and many takhsals have their own variations. That only proves my point that social factors would influence it greatly as even during that time the SGPC were in the pockets of India. They still are, they've never ever gone against them. Their still afraid of the word Khalistan and even struggled to point the finger at indra Ghandi for her acts of pure evil.

Our Physical appearance,orientation, race etc shouldn't have any impact on our spiritual Journey. Many people here are treating "gay" as a disease that needs to be cured. a homosexual couple who spiritually push themselves forwards together have just as much of a chance of reaching Akal Purkh as a hetrosexual couple.

I'd like to add that I was born in India, I spent a large chunk of my childhood there and I go back regularly. Saying that I'm "brainwashed" because i hold a different view to you is rather unsikh-like.