Sikh Man Builds Mosque For Muslims In Punjab

[Kira]

What does that have to do with anything? He simply named the clan of where that person came from. I'm sure Guru Vashishta has more knowledge than both of us, and he is a brahmgyani rishi unlike both of us, so unless you were there stop doing nindya of such a saint.

what Nindya have I done? I stated facts, if it irritates you so much then don't read it. Pick up a dictionary and check what Nindya actually is rather than throwing it around so casually.

You don't think trying to gain a materialistic swarg is negative?? It's just like if I do 'penance' to take over your house, and kick you out (mind you this is just a scenario).

No I don't. I don't think it is right but I don't consider it a sin. People do it all the time, the Singh used to pray for Victory, by extension they were asking for defeat for their foes. Does that suddenly make it all that negative? People ask for all sorts of things, God chooses if he gives or not.

It's just like if I do 'penance' to take over your house, and kick you out (mind you this is just a scenario).

Go for it, I'm not stopping you. It's up to Akaal if he wants to grant it or not.

DevLok is made by Sri Vaheguru for people who do bhagti for the love of God, for the love of God, for the love of God. Not for people who do 'penance' to live there.

Read japji sahib for once. No actually sit down and read it. There are millions of Heavens and Millions of hells. IF someone wants to take one over they can ask waheguru for that, fact. Nothing wrong with it as asking does not equate receiving.

Maybe rather than getting so worked up over this supposed Nindya everyone is doing according to you (while all we've done is point out facts that you seem to blissfully ignore, just like you blissfully ignore any Gurbani that tears down your arguments) you should look at things from a neutral standpoint, which you never do.

you're once again ignoring the fact so many people have done Tap for even more than DevLok yet no one went to cut off their heads.

[Kira]

Well that's on you if you don't think that is negative.

Gurbani even states it's not ideal but it's not a cardinal sin.

Ram Raja and Guru Vashishta knew it was negative but if you think you are higher than them at this stage then I don't know what to say.

When did I say that? maybe if you stopped viewing them as perfect you'd grasp what we're trying to say. The god's aren't even much higher than humans in terms of the cosmic ladder, so stop treating them as though their comparable to Gurmukh Mahapurkhs.

Vashishta EXPLICITLY SAID A Shudra is doing Tap, that's why he died. Rama went out to seek them and THEN he asked and learned the intent. He went out to stop the tap REGARDLESS of the intention.

Obviously God chooses to give or to not to give, and look, God chose not to give it to Shambuka. See what the outcome was? Instead of him being blessed, he got killed (someone else could have killed him as well too besides who did). So if God did not want to keep him living then what on earth is your problem.

Rama isn't god. Nor is he anything comparable to MahaKaal.

And I do not want to kick you out, because I have no dushmani

Except with logic.

as always recited during nitnem.

maybe if you actually read some of the translations you would know how much nonsense you spew 90% of the time on here.

. When did I say there was only 1 DevLok, of course there are many, but taking over ANY is bad since it is against nature.

Dear Hindu Sister.

Please read Japji Sahib again. The first 3 Pauri and then come and talk about if taking over is AGAINST Nature or not. God decides who he raises to be king.

All those people have died too who did tap for DevLok mind you, so look it is the same outcome either way.

Yet none of them were killed during the inital Tap. Yet no one seemed to die from their bad intentions. yet suddenly when a Shudra does it someone has mysteriously dropped dead.

I think the analogy someone pasted here about you is correct. You're nothing more than a Brick wall who's convinced she's a Brahmgyani. Discussing anything with you is futile as you're already convinced that you're completely infallible.

Goodbye My Hindu Sister

[jkvlondon]

I wasn't talking about you Kira ji when it comes to nindya! Well that's on you if you don't think that is negative. Ram Raja and Guru Vashishta knew it was negative but if you think you are higher than them at this stage then I don't know what to say. Obviously God chooses to give or to not to give, and look, God chose not to give it to Shambuka. See what the outcome was? Instead of him being blessed, he got killed (someone else could have killed him as well too besides who did). So if God did not want to keep him living then what on earth is your problem. And I do not want to kick you out, because I have no dushmani (especially with a fellow Singh ji) with anyone and I want sarbat da bhalla as always recited during nitnem. When did I say there was only 1 DevLok, of course there are many, but taking over ANY is bad since it is against nature. All those people have died too who did tap for DevLok mind you, so look it is the same outcome either way.

OK since we are pointing fingers again...Ms Preet did it never occur to you that the Brahmin who came to complain was 100% wrong to complain as he was not accepting bhana or does that not even figure ...there must be a specific reason why it was that person. And then he was aghirtagan enough to be prepared to throw back the blessing of his life and his wife's life because they couldn't accept Bhana, they wanted someone else to suffer instead .

[DSGkeepingitreal]

Veerji,

Banda Singh Bahadur was a traitor to the Panth who went on to try and establish himself as a dehdari Guru. His hubris led to a shattering schism in the ranks of the Khalsa. I wouldn't use him as a reference point for how Sikhs ought to behave.

I'm also unsure about these forced conversions. Nothing of the kind is mentioned in the puraatan accounts. True, there are some instances of Sikhs taking revenge against Muslims after establishing the confederacy of Misls, some quite horrific ( one such remebrance relates how the Sikhs demolished some mosques and forced Afghan prisoners to wash the foundations with pig's blood), but not forced conversion en masse.

You yourself have supplied the demographics of the Sikh Empire - 70% of its inhabitants were Muslim. Either such a thing never happened, or the Sikhs were extremely incompetent at forcing people to convert in a way unequaled throughout human history.

Where did you get this fairy tale from that Banda Singh Bahadur was a traitor to the Panth? You should be careful how you write about one of the greatest warriors of the Panth who taught a lesson to the Moghul oppressors.

Read Mahan Kosh by Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha, Tvarikh Guru Khalsa by Giani Gian Singh and Panth Prakash by Rattan Singh Bhangu. These are some of the ONLY historical accounts of the life of Banda Singh Bahadur.

He established himself as a dehdari Guru and instructed his followers to abandon the Khalsa's revered neel bastar in favour of the ochre robes of the Bairagi faith to which he had reverted, to stop eating onions and garlic, and to discard the Khalsa's greeting "Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh" and replace it with "Fateh Darshan Ki". His Bandai Khalsa actually fought against the Tat Khalsa, loyal to the one true Guru Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

You are the one who has imbibed a fairy tale, given life at around the end of the 19th century.

I don't know why I bothered responding to you, you're just going to dismiss everything I've said out of hand anyway because you have ZERO respect for Sikh history and refuse to accept anything which doesn't conform to your narrow-mindedness. If I am wrong about Banda Singh Bahadur, God will punish me for the things I have said. But I am going by what little evidence there is, that seems to me to be the only reasonable approach.

So in your brainwashed mind even the battle of Sirhind never happened.

What a silly feat of mental gymnastics. Where did I even suggest that I believe the battle of Sirhind never occurred?

Banda Singh Bahadur became a traitor gradually. The battle of Sirhind happened when he was still loyal to the cause.

What a sudden turn around. LOL

Perhaps you may have already forgotten you wrote this,

There is absolutely no historical which verifies what you believe about Banda Singh Bahadur.

Another one, for God's sake.

What you've just quoted me as saying is not at odds with what I wrote earlier.

You believe Banda Singh Bahadur is one of the great heroes of Sikh history. That is what I set about disproving when I gave you the evidence of his treachery. Not his martial prowess. Not his former loyalty to the Khalsa. Not his participation in the Battle of Sirhind. His legacy. He was loyal - and then he wasn't. And that is why I called him a traitor.

And I called you a brain washed mind person.

Better brainwashed than braindead like you. I'm done here.

What else can be expected from believers of falsehood?

Balkaar and others will surely reap their rewards for consistently doing ninda of Dhan Dhan Guru Piarey Sipahi Soorma Bahadur Shaheed Sant Brahmgiani Mahapursh Baba Gurbakhsh Singh Jee (aka Baba Banda Singh Bahadur).

[jkvlondon]

Bhana is AKAL PURAKH'S WILL

Aghiratghan is the person who is UNGRATEFUL to the level of sin

[Kira]

Because it is a NEGATIVE thing. Honestly someone praying to take over something that is running well is wrong, and people were true back then, that is why sins were seen as a bigger deal back then.

Yet Gurbani states God is a giver and it is fine to ask him for stuff albiet it is not the ultimate goal. Once again you keep overlooking all that. Once again Gurbani is put aside and you push your own Haumai forward as the truth.

, Guru Vashishta knew that that Shambuka was doing a negative penance, but since when is it a crime to know exactly what negative penance he was doing? So what about that,

Where did I say it was a crime, he explicitly stated that it was a Shudra doing Tapisya, the reason I keep saying that is because those were his exact words. He then stated that Shudra were forbidden from doing Tapisya in all Yugs save Kalyug. This took place BEFORE Kalyug, hence it was forbidden for so called lower castes to do Tapisya. Hence discrimination. Does that spell it out for you?

Rama went to shambuka and there he inquired of the nature. The reason Vashishta gave was Shudra are not allowed to do Tapisya in all yugs except Kalyug. He never once said the reason was bad intentions. That's something you want to use to justify the protection of your beloved caste system.

we all know God resides everywhere.

Yes except once again you forget that any action we take can't be blamed on Waheguru.

God would have given that punishment to Shambuka either way from anyone

You know this how? Are you all-knowing? Once again for the umpteenth you start asserting you know the nature and will of God.

Why do you keep calling Shambuka from his clan name? From a so called person thinking that castes don't exist

I'm quoting the words used by Vashista, he said it was due to a Shudra doing Tapisya, he never mentioned any negative intentions. In--fact you've yet to answer why bad intentions wasn't suddenly causing calamity arouond the world, if a simple Ascetic could cause the death of a boy, imagine what the Tapisya process of millions of other dreaded beings did.

Lol, if I was brahmgyani I wouldn't be on this site to learn.

Yet you've never once taken on board anything anyone else says. You have to pass it by your own thoughts and cross-reference to see if it matches what twisted meanings you like to derive from it. You regularly ignore Gurbani and simply go "well I think" rather than "well if that's what Gurbani says then it's right".

[Kira]

Once again you keep forgetting that his penance had bad intentions. Tapasya and bhagti is different Kira ji, they were all allowed to do bhagti in all yugs.

He explicitly stated he wasn't allowed to do any form of Austerities aka their own form of Bhagti. Please stop trying to change things now. First you called it black magic and now you're calling it a different thing, they referred to practicing austerities aka Tapisya as Bhagti.

do you think that no shudras did bhagti back then? What about Valmiki? Or Narada? They were both highly respected shudras who did bhagti to Narayan (which is on Ram Raja's Vaishnav path)

Yet according to Vashista his sin was doing penance as a Shudra and nothing else. Stop glossing over that one fact. Vashishta said that was why the son of the Brahmin died, are you calling him a liar now? He even said Their not allowed to do any form of austerities.

Our actions can't be blamed as you say, but Sri Vaheguru can stop anything Sri Vaheguru likes, Shambuka could have been not been killed, but because of his intentions he was slayed.

Or it could have been God making a point a point that Rama wasn't as pure as he was being painted? Or it could have been God showing the world just how badly people were treating each other back then? Thing is you don't know his will. Guru Arjun dev Ji and Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji both were tortured and brutally murdered.They paved the way for Religious tolerance and Martyrdom for Sikhi and the world. Fact of the matter is you don't have an iota of a clue on what god wants or wants to show. So it would be wise to stop asserting that you do.

Many people were pure back in those yugs, that is why there was not as much chaos as now.

Do you struggle to read? Many people were doing Penances for evil intents back then as well. Yet no calamity befell anyone else, yet no one seemed to kick up a fuss about their bad intentions?

Rather than blaming shambuka maybe you should blame the Brahmin (as jkvlondon pointed out) for not accepting that his son was dead and going around looking for others to blame.

But that would be a cardinal sin, after all Brahmin is the highest caste and the Caste System is absolute to you :happy2: :happy2:

[DSGkeepingitreal]

You guys are tripping out for no reason.

There are millions of demi-Gods, Devtas, etc out there/which have existed.....

Who are you going to talk about and who are you going to leave out of the conversation?

Enshrine Gurbani within your life, body, mind and soul....all doubts will be removed.

[Kira]

Austerities such as wanting to gain pointless stuff with bad motives! The sin was that he had bad intentions with his penance, the Shudra not being allowed to do real bhakti is wrong as stated by our Sri Guru jis,

Yet that was the reason why Vaishata said the son died. You keep overlooking that.

when Valmiki and Narada and countless other Vaishnav sants can do bhagti outside of Kalyug, then I am sure that wasn't the reason for the death of Shambuka.

Yet that was the reason that Vaishata presented for the death of the son. You keep overlooking that, its written in there in black and white, what's so hard for you to accept.

When Valmiki wrote 'Yoga Vashishta' then how do you think Guru Vashishta thinks the way you think he does. He is a rishi muni who is much more higher than us, that being said you should stop spreading lies.

What lies? I said exactly what he said and you whine and complain im lying. I've not added anything into his words, nor have I changed it. Maybe you should stop getting so offended over these plain and simple facts.

If Ram Raja wasn't pure then why was our Guru ji's born in his linage??

The same linage gave birth to Prithi Chand. I don't need to tell you what he ended up getting involved in. Linage is off little consequence to Guru Sahib, they simply stated it to prove a point.

Why are you saying our Sri Guru ji's were being tortured? Our Sri Guru jis don't feel pain at all, they can be amar with their human body if they wanted to be. When one is one with Sri Vaheguru, do you really think they feel pain?

To our human interpretation it is torture. To them it was not. However once again you completely ignored my point. Their passing on ended up further exemplifying 2 key characteristics of the Panth.

? You are saying that what Ram Raja did was wrong right, I am just saying if it was as wrong as you said it was it could have been stopped

Yes I am. It was pure and simple caste discrimination. Maybe you sat down and read Dasam Granth you would see how fallible Vishnu as a god actually was.

d, but when the Guru of treta yug himself did that I don't know why you question it.

Only Guru I know is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. The Same Guru said the death was caused by a Shudra doing austerities, he didn't even bring up it was due to bad intentions. Rama discovered that much later. You're simply trying to find a good enough excuse to pass it off as a just.

So tell me why couldn't the Brahmin have just accepted God's will rather than complaining and looking around for someone else to blame.

Those other people who did evil penences were just not as famous as the stories from Ramayan and haven't encountered Ram Raja & Sita ji.

There are countless tales of people doing Austerities for evil gains. Yet it seemed that in this instance you decide to excuse it off as bad intentions when the actual cause was mentioned to be something else. Rama didn't even say it was bad, he simply took out his sword and cut the head off.

You're the one creating "it was bad intentions" the initial story points out it was a Shudra doing the penance which resulted in the death of son.

[DSGkeepingitreal]

You are right, those beings are called Devi Devtas Avatars Gurus Sants because they are good, but if someone spreads lies about them then I reply.

Gurbani is very clear on these things. Everyone (both sides) save themselves the risk of doing ninda or lie, and refer to Gurbani.