‘My Children Don’T Want To Add Singh To Names’

[simran345]

I don't think this is true. I know plenty.

So do I.

[buddasingh]

First bro, if we were to sit down, I would likely support many of your sentiments. We all have an interest in sikhi and we're all here to learn from one another.

Not sure about rational based in history. It's also a work of fiction or propaganda to suggest there were times in history of peoplekind without murders. That would not be a basis to say murder is OK.

The gift of Sikh Guru's gifted is certainly not fiction or propaganda. You did not answer my second question.

Are you saying it is OK for some Sikhs to massacre that gift of our Guruji?

I just told you, and gave you historical evidence (and there is a lot more of it) that the Sikh community has never been solely Amritdhari or keshdhari.

I don't understand why some people don't get this? It's a work of fiction or propaganda to suggest all Sikhs, post 1699 were Amritdharis, or that the Sikh community didn't exist in harmony in the past as a mixture of sehajdhari/monay and Amritdharis.

That's all I'm saying - I'm not telling keshdhari or Amritdhari Sikhs to cut their kesh.

I don't get why people don't grasp this simple thing?

Starstriker, dally, khoon etc. I'm trying to understand your reactions. They are not uncommon stances. The point about respect for all people I understand.

But the open rationalization or defense of cutting kesh as a sikh in the same breath never quite makes sense to me.

Are you saying it's OK for all Sikhs to massacre their kesh? Are you saying it is OK for some Sikhs to massacre that gift of our Guruji?

[silvermoon]

If anyone bothered to read the article, you'd see why her children feel that way

The Sikh kaum is full of dummies. Why did the mother not empower her children by suggesting that media is full of rubbish and they have to have faith and confidence within? Is there no way she could have taught her weak minded, inconfident ignorant children that media is all man made and that the Guru is more powerful and above media, so as not to take notice of it?

I have no sympathy for her or her children. How can I? If they have no brains to analyse what is being reported, represented or depicted then it is their own fault. The mother/father can teach the children how to do this.

Feeling EMPATHY is TOTALLY OUT OF the QUESTION!!! This is all to do with lack of grey matter and nothing to do with our noble suffixes such 'Kaur and Singh' which are extremely superior to their bu1shit!!

This case reminds me of Michael Jackson's case!!

[Not2Cool2Argue]

First bro, if we were to sit down, I would likely support many of your sentiments. We all have an interest in sikhi and we're all here to learn from one another.

Not sure about rational based in history. It's also a work of fiction or propaganda to suggest there were times in history of peoplekind without murders. That would not be a basis to say murder is OK.

The gift of Sikh Guru's gifted is certainly not fiction or propaganda. You did not answer my second question.

Are you saying it is OK for some Sikhs to massacre that gift of our Guruji?

No it isnt ok for sikhs to 'massacre' their hair. However what about after? Since someone thinks they cannot keep this gift, are they forever unredeemable, unable to do anything good? This i think is the case of moneh shaheeds. They refused the gift of hair and maybe also consequently sikhi, but they could not deny the good causes sikhs were fighting for. They could not sit on the sidelines and just watch. So they joined in and gave their life. This is admirable and deserving of the shaheed title. So even if someone is not amritdhari/keshdhari, they can do good things and admirable things. I think everyone agrees with this.

I think the conflict arises in calling them 'sikhs'. When they reject the main rules of sikhi, are they sikhs? I think this problem arises as SGGS is supposed to be jagat guru as well as The Guru of the sikhs. So is anyone following SGGS a sikh? According to sikh rehat maryada, yes as long as not following anyone else and believes in 10 gurus and so on.

I like what jkvlondon says that sehajdhari is progress ( ppl of other faiths slowly coming into sikhi) not regression (children of amridhari/sikh families going monah). Thats why the source provided by dally singh is ambigious. Were those cut haired siques new into sikhi or for generations staying sehajdhari or was there an upward movement into the amridharis.

At the end of the day, we cant and shouldnt judge ppls avasthas on their appearance. Also i would rather that sikh families allowed children choice then force them to be kesdhari, by saying things like this is a massacre of a gift. The true assests to the panth come when mone decide by themselves through inspiration to come to sikhi. Such as jugraj singh,manvir singh etc. They done a lot more than ppl growing up in sikhi environment. Cuz they were inspired and chose themselves. Also they werent closeted as many who grow up as sikhs are.

[jkvlondon]

I don't think this is true. I know plenty.

I know plenty ? of sehajdhari from Guru ji's era or plenty of things ? I have seen Muslman doing sehaj paath they would be considered sehajdhari in the true sense not some urban suburban mona who does zero paat but insists on being called sikh.

[jkvlondon]

The Sikh kaum is full of dummies. Why did the mother not empower her children by suggesting that media is full of rubbish and they have to have faith and confidence within? Is there no way she could have taught her weak minded, inconfident ignorant children that media is all man made and that the Guru is more powerful and above media, so as not to take notice of it?

I have no sympathy for her or her children. How can I? If they have no brains to analyse what is being reported, represented or depicted then it is their own fault. The mother/father can teach the children how to do this.

Feeling EMPATHY is TOTALLY OUT OF the QUESTION!!! This is all to do with lack of grey matter and nothing to do with our noble suffixes such 'Kaur and Singh' which are extremely superior to their bu1shit!!

This case reminds me of Michael Jackson's case!!

The Sikh kaum is full of dummies. Why did the mother not empower her children by suggesting that media is full of rubbish and they have to have faith and confidence within? Is there no way she could have taught her weak minded, inconfident ignorant children that media is all man made and that the Guru is more powerful and above media, so as not to take notice of it?

I have no sympathy for her or her children. How can I? If they have no brains to analyse what is being reported, represented or depicted then it is their own fault. The mother/father can teach the children how to do this.

Feeling EMPATHY is TOTALLY OUT OF the QUESTION!!! This is all to do with lack of grey matter and nothing to do with our noble suffixes such 'Kaur and Singh' which are extremely superior to their bu1shit!!

This case reminds me of Michael Jackson's case!!

tall order ...expecting kids to understand and analyse media and propaganda when their own parents can't ...the kids are the unfortunate ones because they are trapped in a sikhi free vacuum

[dallysingh101]

The gift of Sikh Guru's gifted is certainly not fiction or propaganda. You did not answer my second question.

Are you saying it is OK for some Sikhs to massacre that gift of our Guruji?

I did answer it. I told you that from the very beginning not all Sikhs kept kesh, even shortly after 1699. And let Waheguru judge them for that when the time comes - not people like yourselves who've probably got their own barrel of flaws (like everyone else). Puratan Amritdharis weren't running around calling people manmukhs and whatnot. They were obviously too busy fighting and leading - modern day Amritdharis should take note of that. And in my personal opinion, if someone (as an adult) is keeping kesh because of familial pressure and doesn't believe in what Khalsa stands for truly in their heart - I think it is a blatant pakaand, and they'd probably be better off without it, instead of living a lie - but it's a free world, and they can do what they want in the end. I'm not here to dictate people's individual personal choices.

Plus if I gave complete quotes of those historical quotes I posted before, some of you would start crying when they mention the dietary habits of our ancestors as well as their use of natural pharmacopoeia. That's more examples of history being written out and modern day amritdharis having a skewed perspective of what our ancestor were really like.

[dallysingh101]

I know plenty ? of sehajdhari from Guru ji's era or plenty of things ? I have seen Muslman doing sehaj paath they would be considered sehajdhari in the true sense not some urban suburban mona who does zero paat but insists on being called sikh.

I know PLENTY of monay Sikhs who do naam simran and paat regularly. And if you haven't met this type maybe you need to get out of your social circle a bit more? Are you closeting yourself in some jatha or something?

Plus, given that you are in the UK, Sikhs themselves fought for some weird racial definition of themselves in the courts here, I'm sure you know this. Jews and Sikhs have some weird ethno-religio categorisation here. By that definition (which I might not necessarily agree with), even the most skanky, nonpractising Sikh is still a Sikh.

And who made you judge and jury of who a Sikh is or not. You appear to be throwing judgements about like you've never made mistakes.

A good few of you like to open your mouths, but don't ever seem to have bothered yourself with doing any serious research into our history outside of what your baba, momma, pappa or chacha told you. When you do that, from Sikh and nonSikh sources your whole perception will change and you'll have a much better understanding of what our community was like.

So go read Gursobha, Read Bhangu's Panth Prakash, read early extant rehats and other Sikh sources (we are so lucky to have them), as well other nonSikh contemporary sources (all critically) and see what you discover there. Because until you do, some of you just sound like people who can't bothered to make the effort to find out the real truth about our society - warts and all.

[N30S1NGH]

Parents should impart the values of singh / khalsa in the children once children identifies with attributes of singh and khalsa, they would automatically naturally seamlessly effortlessly adapt the name. Raising children is quite hard work, as it requires quite bit of self reflection / self improvement on parent part as children are not interested in lectures. In order for children to deeply resonate the stuff parents are preaching, they need to see stuff being practiced- especially kids raised in this part of the world. They will not hesitate to call you out on things which they find it hypocritical..good on them, thats the way it should be. Absolute clear cut, direct perception of things.

[jkvlondon]

I know PLENTY of monay Sikhs who do naam simran and paat regularly. And if you haven't met this type maybe you need to get out of your social circle a bit more? Are you closeting yourself in some jatha or something?

Plus, given that you are in the UK, Sikhs themselves fought for some weird racial definition of themselves in the courts here, I'm sure you know this. Jews and Sikhs have some weird ethno-religio categorisation here. By that definition (which I might not necessarily agree with), even the most skanky, nonpractising Sikh is still a Sikh.

And who made you judge and jury of who a Sikh is or not. You appear to be throwing judgements about like you've never made mistakes.

A good few of you like to open your mouths, but don't ever seem to have bothered yourself with doing any serious research into our history outside of what your baba, momma, pappa or chacha told you. When you do that, from Sikh and nonSikh sources your whole perception will change and you'll have a much better understanding of what our community was like.

So go read Gursobha, Read Bhangu's Panth Prakash, read early extant rehats and other Sikh sources (we are so lucky to have them), as well other nonSikh contemporary sources (all critically) and see what you discover there. Because until you do, some of you just sound like people who can't bothered to make the effort to find out the real truth about our society - warts and all.

I think you need to chill , I have never categorised according to kesh or lack but sharda and actions as Guru ji has taught us all ...I believe there are plenty plenty sehajdharis in true terms within sikh families however I fail to recognise those who are atheist, anti-Guru or acting against the kaum as Sikhs because they just don't respect Guru ji (they will bad mouth Guru Sahiban, don't pray i.e. have zero jeevan (remember we only live while we remember our Creator) and actively spread their anti-sikh attitude to their friends and family.

I consider Nanakpanthis Sikhs, and Udasis but not DhirMalias, Ram Raias, NamDharis , Radha Soamis because my Guru said to not associate with the first two and those who cannot accept Guru Granth Sahib ji as Jug Jug Atal Guru they are not worth keeping company , in fact I feel sorry for them and do ardas that Guru ji blesses them with the truth. I have told my kids it is not the colour, culture, language, nationality which makes a difference to me , just if their partners are devout Sikhs travelling towards Guru ji .

my Jeeja is a Mona he prays more than my brothers, as are many of my cousins and uncles and aunties ...truth is they have always given my small family unit who were amritdhari such a hard time , and made so much fuss about our status over the decades but we have never denied them their lifestyle choices even when one married into radha soami believing family... Karmi apo apni keh nerday ke door....

I n fact Udasis I respect as they allowed women's freedom to gain gian and do parchaar of Gurbani much more than other sampradey ...Singhnian are not being allowed by Hinduised sikh menfolk to spread their spiritual wings , they have to pray just get delievered from this situation before anything else , itis shameful