Is Islam

[dallysingh101]

I think this welcoming of other people into Islam has alot to do with the mosque structure.

in a mosque it is all male. hence new muslim converts who go there are more welcomed and mix freely with each other. I dont think they would get this good welcome if the muslim wifes were there.

ie in a Gurdwara both genders go. hence its more of a family enviroment with wifes and older ladies going. hence it is not an envirioment where a new sikh convert would feel easily be able to mix with. and it is not an envirment for religious disccussions.

mosques on the other hand are all male hence males with naturally be able to welcome and mix with new muslims in this enviroment.

I think that's a really acute observation.

On the flipside, you know what a lot of girls are like. If they like another girl they go all out to get them in their gang. So if an attractive apnee was dealing with a sullah, and his sisters, cousins, friends liked her - it would get all 'sisterly'. Plus girls have this mental level of social pressure amongst themselves that they get terrified of going against, a lot of guys don't understand this. I mean I even see some of my highly educated, professional female friends (who are in their 30s) acting like they are under some serious, unbearable pressure over minor things inbetween their close female friend circle. lol

Anyways - I've got to say, I think the mosque comes towards the end of the conversion process myself. If they've reached there, you can bet your life savings that they would have had a steady exposure to dawa in the run up to that in more private spaces, amongst 'friends'.

[dallysingh101]

All that being said: I do get a lot of people interested in talking about my Sikhi heritage amongst people I know, especially black people.

[Pakandi baba]

They have a very strong sense of cohesion and unity that we don't. People are often attracted to that from what I've seen. Plus girls REALLY love a good 'seeing to': Charitrio Pakyaan tells us as much too. So if some women gets a Muslim boyfriend and he does her good service and offers her the support of a wider, inclusive community (which they are to converts), the girl's mind switches and they are perfectly happy to convert and marry to continue living like this.

The politics of today have actually given sullay a lot of sympathy too in my opinion. Today they are the underdog fighting a much, bigger powerful foe. This overcomes a lot of the negativity that stems from the media. Plus we (rightfully) have a lot of suspicion of the media these days too. There are so many of them that people in places like London are accustomed to being around them daily (even at work), this familiarity ameliorates the negative publicity.

In contrast our people are often seen as archaic, and very insular as well as very independent of one another - this doesn't help give off the impression of community strength and unity that people often seek. It's also easier for people from (even nominal) Christian backgrounds to make that leap into Islam which largely retains all of the prophets/myths/narratives they've grown up with. In contrast our faith seems more alien with lots more unfamiliar Indic references.

But in the end, I think all of the actual religious and spiritual details concerning a religion are usually secondary factors to people converting in actual reality. It's more about more basic needs of belonging and structure in ones life. Plus, we have a lot of differing opinions on the nature of Sikhi - that can be confusing for outsiders.

To get deep into Sikhi you have to pass through a tough test of seeing through all of the bullsh1t our people get up to. Many people can't do that. For those strong enough to, they'll find a bottomless treasure trove.

You actually believe this? hope it's sarcasm and not an actual belief.

[dallysingh101]

You actually believe this? hope it's sarcasm and not an actual belief.

Where do you disagree? It would be a good idea to read the rest of my posts to get the complete picture of my views. This will clear up any misconceptions that might arise from the hastily put together post you quoted.

What I've learnt from the international quality of the forum is that different attitudes seem to exist inbetween different countries with Sikh populations.

It appears as if a lot of apnay in the UK can't wait to move into quiet white areas rather than go through the bother of creating any sort of Sikh area/stronghold like many other communities have done in the UK. This isn't always 'ghettofied' like certain puppoos are suggesting - I mean go around Finsbury Park, Stamford Hill and see the Jew 'ghettos'.

Certain people have tried to make out like this is natural progression or some attempt to get away from crime, but this is bullsh1t. If you look at areas like Hackney, Brixton and these days Hoxton, you'll see people from very affluent backgrounds and with successful careers in medicine, investment banking, IT and whatnot moving with their families into perceived 'rough' areas and raise their families there. Hackney is a good example with majorly expensive houses full of rich professionals with rough estates with murders and drug dealing going on in estates a few streets away.

Plus, my interactions with the white, middle classes has shown me that these people are in no way less inclined to take drugs, especially class A and mind bending stuff like ecstasy and LSD.

[Ranjeet01]

Where do you disagree? It would be a good idea to read the rest of my posts to get the complete picture of my views. This will clear up any misconceptions that might arise from the hastily put together post you quoted.

What I've learnt from the international quality of the forum is that different attitudes seem to exist inbetween different countries with Sikh populations.

It appears as if a lot of apnay in the UK can't wait to move into a quiet white areas rather than go through the bother of creating any sort of Sikh area/stronghold like many other communities have done in the UK. This isn't always 'ghettofied' like certain puppoos are suggesting - I mean go around Finsbury Park, Stamford Hill and see the Jew 'ghettos'.

Certain people have tried to make out like this is natural progression or some attempt to get away from crime, but this is bullsh1t. If you look at areas like Hackney, Brixton and these days Hoxton, you'll see people from very affluent backgrounds and with successful careers in medicine, investment banking, IT and whatnot moving with their families into perceived 'rough' areas and raise their families there. Hackney is a good example with majorly expensive houses full of rich professionals with rough estates with murders and drug dealing going on in estates a few streets away.

Plus, my interactions with the white, middle classes has shown me that these people are in no way less inclined to take drugs, especially class A and mind bending stuff like ecstasy and LSD.

The types of Jews you mention in Stamford Hill are a particular type of Jew, the Ultra Orthodox Hasidic Jew. There are different levels of Jews and from conversations from some observant jews (though not ultra orthodox) say that these types of Jews do not like to mix with other types of Jews let alone with the Goyim. They do not take up normal jobs which would mean they would mix with others.

However, it would interesting to study Jewish migration patterns. A lot of Jews moved from areas of East London to North London to areas such as Golders Green, Finchley and Edgware/Hendon. Now they seem to moving towards Hertfordshire to places like Borehamwood.

One of the ways Jews keep their areas Jewish is when a Jew moves out of an area, the other Jews chip in and buys their house and then ensures that they sell the house to another Jew. Do you honestly think any Sikh would do that?

There is an issue with the folks moving into areas like Hoxton, Brixton where areas are becoming gentrified which means that normal working class people who have lived in the area for years are being priced out. Then you have the issue (particularly in London) where these trendy flats get bought up by foreign investors and then they are left empty.

To keep a Sikh stronghold like you mentioned, how would you structure the neighbourhood? I think having a Gurdwara would be central, what other factors would you need to consider?

[Big_Tera]

why dont sikhs and jews form an alliance against the common enemy that is the muslim lol

[jkvlondon]

The types of Jews you mention in Stamford Hill are a particular type of Jew, the Ultra Orthodox Hasidic Jew. There are different levels of Jews and from conversations from some observant jews (though not ultra orthodox) say that these types of Jews do not like to mix with other types of Jews let alone with the Goyim. They do not take up normal jobs which would mean they would mix with others.

However, it would interesting to study Jewish migration patterns. A lot of Jews moved from areas of East London to North London to areas such as Golders Green, Finchley and Edgware/Hendon. Now they seem to moving towards Hertfordshire to places like Borehamwood.

One of the ways Jews keep their areas Jewish is when a Jew moves out of an area, the other Jews chip in and buys their house and then ensures that they sell the house to another Jew. Do you honestly think any Sikh would do that?

There is an issue with the folks moving into areas like Hoxton, Brixton where areas are becoming gentrified which means that normal working class people who have lived in the area for years are being priced out. Then you have the issue (particularly in London) where these trendy flats get bought up by foreign investors and then they are left empty.

To keep a Sikh stronghold like you mentioned, how would you structure the neighbourhood? I think having a Gurdwara would be central, what other factors would you need to consider?

I think everyone is missing the point we were always meant to spread widely and to farflung reachs ... think about it we each are meant to be ambassadors of SIkhi , that's why we are supposed to be tyaar bar tyaar, amritdhari , vidhvan, sujhvan Gursikhs ...we are supposed to raise our game not let it get to lowest common denominator : the name and racial phenotype. Ghar ghar andar Dharamsal hoe kirtan sada vasoa .....every Sikh home is supposed to be a place of learning sikhi and doing bhagti ...the roadmap is there just got to have faith enough to follow it ...

[dallysingh101]

why dont sikhs and jews form an alliance against the common enemy that is the muslim lol

Does everything we do have to be a fearful reaction to sullay.......

[dallysingh101]

To keep a Sikh stronghold like you mentioned, how would you structure the neighbourhood? I think having a Gurdwara would be central, what other factors would you need to consider?

This is one of the most important questions to ask in my opinion. Keep it in mind. I'll answer it later.

[jkvlondon]

This is one of the most important questions to ask in my opinion. Keep it in mind. I'll answer it later.

each sikh family is a stronghold in the making , it is our efforts that keep it strong or weak against the onslaught of kalyug, then you join neighbouring gursikh families start doing sangat in each other's homes for paat, simran , kirtan , start watching out for each other , pool learning resources and knowledge, gradually each home fort is built up strong then there are no weak links anymore and you have cohesion through sangat , there is very little need for marble monstrosities just smaller shared learning centres , more of them dotted around whereever a small of families are that is the original way we started in the villages , it will work in towns and cities too.Gurdwarey should not as important as being and doing sikhi