Another Shameless <banned word filter activated>

[MisterrSingh]

^^ uaf is made up of middle class communists, who don't live in islamfied areas, uaf stand up for the very people who hate them. Then you have muslim radicals and Pakistani thugs who are part of the uaf.

I was reading something a few days ago about notable white American liberals (American equivalent of what, I guess, are professional liberal organisations that lobby for Leftist causes) who espouse the usual stuff about issues that have never affected them, but love to posture on their soapbox and tell others how to think and behave. Most of these live in approx 97% white areas; don't send their children to schools where there's a considerable ethnic student body, and don't come face to face with anyone of colour in their day to day lives, aside from the odd South Asian taxi driver and their South American house-help.

It's hilarious, and the same applies to these cossetted Leftists in England. How many of them live in Luton, Tower Hamlets, Rochdale, Brixton (the non-gentrified areas), etc? After a day's hard work of waving placards and staring down the equally undesirable thugs on the Right, where do they retreat to? Yep, their leafy suburbs, away from the rabble they profess are their brothers and sisters. Whilst their hearts are undoubtedly in the right place, the sense of self-righteous delusion is off the scale. When the dark times arrive, they won't be anywhere to be seen.

[StarStriker]

^^

Why are you always talking about this or that group. Instead of flirting with right wing fudhoos or your white boy football mates, you should just concentrate on strengthening our own community.

I agree with u man, thats y i NEVER EVER support any gorah anti-muslim groups, coz underneathe it all, we r all the same to them, no matter how much they love our grins.

Sikhs should ONLY collaborate from within, never work with ppl, who dont fit the khalsa mentality.

[Ranjeet01]

One of my observations as an outsider to the gora-sphere is that during the 70s and 80's, the traditional left of society used to be working class labour party types, this from a Sikh perspective is where a lot of interests were allied for equal rights to pay and for a fairer society.

Somewhere down the line, the Left has become completely difference as they do not identify with the working class, they have become champagne socialists, I cannot say whether that was pre-Blair or Post-Blair.

As a Sikh, I have seen the left (which may have been more liberal and tolerant in the past) becoming increasing intolerant and shut down dissent and become more fascist, where they do not allow freedom of speech when it does not agree with their viewpoint.

In many ways, the right has become the good guys. It's like things have become topsy Turvey.

If I may use a Sikh principle here, when we talk about Miri-Piri or Sant-Sipahi, my understanding that even though we do not believe in the duality of left and right that there needs to be a balance between there somewhere.

The extremes of both right and the left are the same.

I am just formulating my opinions here and still trying to iron out some of these details.

[Balkaar]

If I may use a Sikh principle here, when we talk about Miri-Piri or Sant-Sipahi, my understanding that even though we do not believe in the duality of left and right that there needs to be a balance between there somewhere.

You're right. We need a balance between the left's emphasis on individual liberties, and the right's stress on tradition, societal coherence and order. Allow either to be taken to their ideological extremes and what remains is a weak society (in the case of the left) where everybody is so wrapped up in their personal freedoms that their country barely manages to function, or a tyrannical one (in the case of the right) where the people's inherent privileges are all sacrificed for the good of the nation.

Sikhi balances liberty with order very well I think.

[Ranjeet01]

You're right. We need a balance between the left's emphasis on individual liberties, and the right's stress on tradition, societal coherence and order. Allow either to be taken to their ideological extremes and what remains is a weak society (in the case of the left) where everybody is so wrapped up in their personal freedoms that their country barely manages to function, or a tyrannical one (in the case of the right) where the people's inherent privileges are all sacrificed for the good of the nation.

Sikhi balances liberty with order very well I think.

I think that with too much individualism, society becomes very weak and becomes very decadent.

These societies become very confused and lose their morale compass with cultural relatism.

You see this in today's society. It has happened in previous societies in history like the Roman Empire. I think that Indian society became very decadent and weak before the Islamic invasions came.

Once you have that, something in society craves the complete opposite and the pendulum can swing the other way.

[Balkaar]

Once you have that, something in society craves the complete opposite and the pendulum can swing the other way.

History would prove you right. That's exactly what happened after the monarchies of France and Russia were overthrown and dismantled.

It also happened in the case of the Sikhs. When our ancestors finally succeeded in wresting control of Punjab from the Afghans, they very suddenly possessed a personal freedom unlike anything they had ever known. No rulers, no overlords, no opposition and no laws, for the first time. What did they choose to do with this new-found freedom? They went mental, indulging in all manner of debaucheries now that they could. The Khalsa spirit for whose survival they fought was immediately forgotten in the mad rush to grab land and fill the power vacuum.

Extreme ideologies and radical change, are both very dangerous.

[MisterrSingh]

Extreme ideologies and radical change, are both very dangerous.

That's why I believe humanity as a collective will always be flawed. To err is human, as the saying goes. Human nature is unpredictable in many ways, but predictable enough so that it can be charted. It seems like a paradox but history bears testament to the same patterns over and over again. Yet we never learn. The only true power we have is the power over the individual, I.E. ourselves.

[Jeevan]

“They [feminists] share the instinct for tyranny and destruction - and they are filled with self-loathing. In the end, leftist feminists yearn to submit to, and submerge themselves within, a despotic monolith. Because they despise their own society and are bent on its destruction, they cannot concede that adversarial cultures may be more evil, because that would legitimize their own host society - and they can't allow that. It would rob them of the moral indignation -- and the identity of being victims -- that lies at the foundation of their politics of hate.”
― Jamie Glazov

[jkvlondon]

One of my observations as an outsider to the gora-sphere is that during the 70s and 80's, the traditional left of society used to be working class labour party types, this from a Sikh perspective is where a lot of interests were allied for equal rights to pay and for a fairer society.

Somewhere down the line, the Left has become completely difference as they do not identify with the working class, they have become champagne socialists, I cannot say whether that was pre-Blair or Post-Blair.

As a Sikh, I have seen the left (which may have been more liberal and tolerant in the past) becoming increasing intolerant and shut down dissent and become more fascist, where they do not allow freedom of speech when it does not agree with their viewpoint.

In many ways, the right has become the good guys. It's like things have become topsy Turvey.

If I may use a Sikh principle here, when we talk about Miri-Piri or Sant-Sipahi, my understanding that even though we do not believe in the duality of left and right that there needs to be a balance between there somewhere.

The extremes of both right and the left are the same.

I am just formulating my opinions here and still trying to iron out some of these details.

If you had lived in the East End of london during the seventies and the height of the skinhead movement in the estates you wouldn't be surprised at all that Labour supporters are just as racists as the Tories ...Hackney was a labour stronghold for decades and the racism was out for all to hear and see. Even the mild mannered gorian had very clearcut 'get them pakis out' words and looks (bitter old bags - suffering from 'king arthuritis' as Mum put it , think they are royalty that why no one else is good enough ).

truth is you are looking at it wrong WE bring balance to their negativity by being their polar opposite: all-accepting nature vs racist/chauvanistic attitude, truthful vs oath breakers, Calm vs Rabid, Progressive vs retrograde. We do not need to fix them, just ensure we a better quality human with bhagti as our mainstay.

[jkvlondon]

History would prove you right. That's exactly what happened after the monarchies of France and Russia were overthrown and dismantled.

It also happened in the case of the Sikhs. When our ancestors finally succeeded in wresting control of Punjab from the Afghans, they very suddenly possessed a personal freedom unlike anything they had ever known. No rulers, no overlords, no opposition and no laws, for the first time. What did they choose to do with this new-found freedom? They went mental, indulging in all manner of debaucheries now that they could. The Khalsa spirit for whose survival they fought was immediately forgotten in the mad rush to grab land and fill the power vacuum.

Extreme ideologies and radical change, are both very dangerous.

I think you'll find the rank did not do this only the 'leaders' in nakal of hill rajas etc ...when we stop monkeying others we will remain strong , model behaviour we know works not broken models of West or East politics i.e. Follow Guru Pita ji's bachan learn rajniti of others and rise above that model create our own paradigm . The raj was brought down by handing over command posts and money control to non Khalsa ethic peoples , stopping sarbat khalsa etc this time Khalsa fauj has to stay a cohesive force by closing ranks around trustworthy leaders taken from ther midst