Who Is Responsible For The Hate Towards Dasam Granth?

[Quantavius]

I think the hate actually has its antecedents from the colonial period.

That's when you start getting the movement to distance SIkhs from anything remotely considered Hindu (which I think it would be more accurate to call Indic).

Prior to this, there was no problems with DG in the panth. Then after colonisation we get a different attitude towards the granth - 'it contains Hinduism', 'They are full of "erotic" tales', 'they deify Hindu devtays' etc. etc.

I think a part of the negative attitude towards Charitrio Pakyaan stems from the prudish, repressed Victorian attitudes towards sexual matters that seeped into our community whilst being colonised by these said people. By the time they had finished 'educating' us with their values, some of us began to feel that such tales could never come from dasmesh pita.

Sikhism is a complete rejection of Hinduism. There is no arguments here. Otherwise there is no need to create a new religion, just a sect within Hinduism. Those of you arguing otherwise, I suggest your go to the source then and partake in Hinduism at a Mandir near you.

I fail to see how colonialism affected the mindset of the average Sikh back then as most could not understand, read or even write English. Even today, I very much doubt the average Sikh in Punjab knows what is 'Victorian' or 'repressed Victorian attitudes'. I think your anti white outlook is clouding your judgement.

[dallysingh101]

On 5/2/2016 at 5:26 PM, Quantavius said:

I fail to see how colonialism affected the mindset of the average Sikh back then as most could not understand, read or even write English. Even today, I very much doubt the average Sikh in Punjab knows what is 'Victorian' or 'repressed Victorian attitudes'. I think your anti white outlook is clouding your judgement.

Are you REALLY that simple????

The way the repressed Victorian attitudes took hold was simple, they 'educated' an elite infecting them with this - then this elite went on to do parchaar to the masses indirectly via pamphlets and other written material.

In CP's case, it wasn't that parchaar was actively done against it - they just appeared to have kept quiet about the contents to the masses. The maintained a silence about it and anything else they considered 'strange' due to their 'education' in Christian schools.

I think you acutely suffer from the opposite of what you accuse me of. You have such a deeply ingrained inferiority complex towards goray that you can't imagine them doing anything wrong, devious, or primarily for their own agenda and interests as opposed to ours.

Quote

Sikhism is a complete rejection of Hinduism. There is no arguments here. Otherwise there is no need to create a new religion, just a sect within Hinduism. Those of you arguing otherwise, I suggest your go to the source then and partake in Hinduism at a Mandir near you.

Maybe you should try understanding a bit more. My point is that Sikhi, via Gurbani, HEAVILY utilises contemporary Indic metaphors and mythology in making points (yes, even when rejecting what people call 'Hinduism' these days). I think some people took this too far, and became negatively inclined towards Dasam Granth because it so heavily utilises this Indic framework (amongst other things). Some simple minds see this and mistake the contents for being 'Hindu' in some way as a consequence.

Evidence suggests that our Gurus had no problem with using existing Indic (which some people call Hindu) myths and stories to elucidate certain concepts - Chandi ki vaar is a blatant and well known example of this.

Maybe you should sod off to a protestant church near you btw?

[Quantavius]

Are you REALLY that simple????

The way the repressed Victorian attitudes took hold was simple, they 'educated' an elite infecting them with this - then this elite went on to do parchaar to the masses indirectly via pamphlets and other written material.

In CP's case, it wasn't that parchaar was actively done against it - they just appeared to have kept quite about the contents to the masses. The maintained a silence about it and anything else they considered 'strange' due to their 'education' in Christian schools.

I think you acutely suffer from the opposite of what you accuse me of. You have such a deeply ingrained inferiority complex towards goray that you can't imagine them doing anything wrong, devious, or primarily for their own agenda and interests as opposed to ours.

Maybe you should try understanding a bit more. My point is that Sikhi, via Gurbani, HEAVILY utilises contemporary Indic metaphors and mythology in making points (yes, even when rejecting what people call 'Hinduism' these days). I think some people took this too far, and became negatively inclined towards Dasam Granth because it so heavily utilises this Indic framework (amongst other things). Some simple minds see this and mistake the contents for being 'Hindu' in some way as a consequence.

Evidence suggests that our Gurus had no problem with using existing Indic (which some people call Hindu) myths and stories to elucidate certain concepts - Chandi ki vaar is a blatant and well known example of this.

Maybe you should sod off to a protestant church near you btw?

Who were these 'elites' that were educated in with repressed Victorian attitudes? Please provide details.

[GPS]

Ram rai sect was not part of Sikhism as they were excommunicated lot.

Seeds of shunning dasam Granth are in Singh Sabha movement. In 1897 a sodhak committee was formed to evaluate it.though that resulted in standardization of Sri Dasam Granth sahib with unanimous approval of it being bani of Dasam pita yet question arises why they formed the committee.

Then came teja Singh bhasaur who questioned ardas pauri. He also took out bhat and Bhagat bani out of Sri Guru Granth Sahib. He was promoted by British and his was Hindu phobia.

After bhasauria Dasam granth sahib beadbi occurred at Akal takhat and gurdwara ramsar sahib.because of that SGPc lifted its parkash at akal takhat sahib and gurudwara Ramsar sahib in 1943. Some elements shortened chaupai sahib. Slowly Sri Dasam granth sahib went out of Sikh memory.

Present assault most vicious one was launched by most probably at instance of GOI after 1991 wherein atheist elements missionaries were roped in along some disgruntled scholars like gurtej ,kala afghana, gur darshan Dillon etc.

[Quantavius]

Ram rai sect was not part of Sikhism as they were excommunicated lot.

Seeds of shunning dasam Granth are in Singh Sabha movement. In 1897 a sodhak committee was formed to evaluate it.though that resulted in standardization of Sri Dasam Granth sahib with unanimous approval of it being bani of Dasam pita yet question arises why they formed the committee.

Then came teja Singh bhasaur who questioned ardas pauri. He also took out bhat and Bhagat bani out of Sri Guru Granth Sahib. He was promoted by British and his was Hindu phobia.

After bhasauria Dasam granth sahib beadbi occurred at Akal takhat and gurdwara ramsar sahib.because of that SGPc lifted its parkash at akal takhat sahib and gurudwara Ramsar sahib in 1943. Some elements shortened chaupai sahib. Slowly Sri Dasam granth sahib went out of Sikh memory.

Present assault most vicious one was launched by most probably at instance of GOI after 1991 wherein atheist elements missionaries were roped in along some disgruntled scholars like gurtej ,kala afghana, gur darshan Dillon etc.

Can you please provide a source to verify the fact that Teja Singh Bhasaur took out bhat and Bhagat bani out from SGGS Ji Maharaj?

If I was a Hindu that was hell bent on destroying Sikhims I would love Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji as I can draw parallels between Hinduism and Sikhism, and finally lay claim that Sikhism is a sect of Hinduism. Why would the GOI want to assault Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji? It does not logically make sense.

[GPS]

Can you please provide a source to verify the fact that Teja Singh Bhasaur took out bhat and Bhagat bani out from SGGS Ji Maharaj?

If I was a Hindu that was hell bent on destroying Sikhims I would love Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji as I can draw parallels between Hinduism and Sikhism, and finally lay claim that Sikhism is a sect of Hinduism. Why would the GOI want to assault Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji? It does not logically make sense.

I am surprised that you are not aware of tejja bhasaur.please read here

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Babu_Teja_Singh

Can you clarify yourself what you write in second para if I was a Hinsu ------------.

Why a repressive govt of Indira Gandhi and her son would like to attack Dasam granth sahib ? Answer is simple as after 1984 they wanted to divide and weaken Sikhs

[Quantavius]

I am surprised that you are not aware of tejja bhasaur.please read here

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Babu_Teja_Singh

Can you clarify yourself what you write in second para if I was a Hinsu ------------.

Why a repressive govt of Indira Gandhi and her son would like to attack Dasam granth sahib ? Answer is simple as after 1984 they wanted to divide and weaken Sikhs

I'm sorry, I really don't know much about DG Ji other then there is a lot of controversy on it.

Why would the Indian government attack the DG Ji when it is the best source for drawing parallels between Sikhism and Hinduism? That does not make logical sense. By drawing parallels the Hindus can finally lay claim that Sikhism is a sect of Hinduism.

As it is Sikhism is not recognized by the GOI as a separate and distinct religion. Using DG Ji to claim Sikhism is Hinduism, the GOI can pry open the seats of power that controls Sikhism. First would be legislation created to open the election of Jathedars to Hindus as well. That will be the beginning of the end.

The best way to kill your enemy is from within and not outward attacks. Outwards attacks only bolsters your enemy to further unite against you.

[GPS]

I'm sorry, I really don't know much about DG Ji other then there is a lot of controversy on it.

Why would the Indian government attack the DG Ji when it is the best source for drawing parallels between Sikhism and Hinduism? That does not make logical sense. By drawing parallels the Hindus can finally lay claim that Sikhism is a sect of Hinduism.

As it is Sikhism is not recognized by the GOI as a separate and distinct religion. Using DG Ji to claim Sikhism is Hinduism, the GOI can pry open the seats of power that controls Sikhism. First would be legislation created to open the election of Jathedars to Hindus as well. That will be the beginning of the end.

The best way to kill your enemy is from within and not outward attacks. Outwards attacks only bolsters your enemy to further unite against you.

If you do not know about DG then why are you claiming that it draws parallel between Hinduism and sikhism and because of DG Hindus can claim sikhism as a sect

of Hinduism.

You do not make any sense. For your information if there is any granth that condemns Brahminism in entirety it is Sri Dasam Granth sahib.Please sit back and read from Dasam Granth

ਆਦਿ ਅਜੋਨਿ ਕਹਾਇ ਕਹੋ ਕਿਮ ਦੇਵਕਿ ਕੇ ਜਠਰੰਤਰ ਆਯੋ ॥ ਤਾਤ ਨ ਮਾਤ ਕਹੈ ਜਿਹ ਕੋ ਤਿਹ ਕਯੋਂ ਬਸੁਦੇਵਹਿ ਬਾਪੁ ਕਹਾਯੋ ॥੧੪॥

आदि अजोनि कहाइ कहो किम देवकि के जठरंतर आयो ॥ तात न मात कहै जिह को तिह कयों बसुदेवहि बापु कहायो ॥१४॥

He is said to be unborn and beginningless, then how did he come into the womb of Devaki ? He , who is considered without any father or mother, then why did he cause Vasudev to be called his father?14.

Sri Dasam Granth sahib

ਜੌ ਕਹੌ ਰਾਮ ਅਜੋਨਿ ਅਜੈ ਅਤਿ ਕਾਹੇ ਕੌ ਕੌਸ਼ਲ ਕੁੱਖ ਜਯੋ ਜੂ ॥ ਕਾਲ ਹੂੰ ਕਾਲ ਕਹੈ ਜਿਹਿ ਕੌ ਕਿਹਿ ਕਾਰਣ ਕਾਲ ਤੇ ਦੀਨ ਭਯੋ ਜੂ ॥

जौ कहौ राम अजोनि अजै अति काहे कौ कौशल कु्ख जयो जू ॥ काल हूं काल कहै जिहि कौ किहि कारण काल ते दीन भयो जू ॥

If we consider Ram, the Lord as Unborn, then how did he take brith from the womb of Kaushalya ? He, who is said to be the KAL (destroyer) of KAL (death), then why did none become subjugated himself before KAL?

Guru Gobind singh ji in Sri Dasam Granth sahib

[WaljinderSingh]

A character named Quantavius has become a huge troll. Stop feeding it.

Quantavius, take this as a warning. You were successful in sneaking through many barriers but now you are caught red handed. Don't question the authenticity of Dasam granth and draw parallels with other faiths. People on here are wise enough to understand what you are up to.

[GPS]

These people think that they are masters of world.they start such threads on purpose.