Who Is Responsible For The Hate Towards Dasam Granth?

[GPS 1,327]

Purpose of a Sikh's life is to attain God realization to get rid of cycle of rebirth and death. That can only be done

By becoming guruwale I.e. Taking naam/gurumantra and with Guru sahib's kirpa. That kirpa will be bestowed when

One treads path of nam simran that gets one rid of maya.

[N30S1NGH 3,149]

So does that mean that our Sri Guru Sahib jis should not be called God then? Since I do not have any wish to go to hell..

jae ham ko paramaesar ouchar hai | thae sabh narak kundd mehi par hai |

Translation:- “Those who call me God, will fall into the pit of hell.

This vaak of maharaj should be seen as scolding of our father, cannot be taken literally. However overall message behind this vaak of this maharaj should be taken seriously. What Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji is saying- don't be attached to my transient (shud bhram sargun) saroop-personal god saroop, don't confine me in transient shud sargun saroop. Realize- your and my real saroop which is Advait- non dual Nirgun saroop via bhagti, shabad dhun, shabad gian- bhramgyan.

[Jonny101 4,391]

Its a bit confusing to explain this but from what I have understood is that Guru and Vaheguru are ONE, no difference. Even though they are ONE but Guru jee did not want Sikhs to do Bhagti of them. The reason why Guru jee took birth on this world is so people will do Bhagti of Vaheguru and Vaheguru alone. So when Guru jee scolds his Sikhs that you will go to hell if you call me God, it should be seen as an Aadesh or Hukm by Guru ji to not worship Him but to worship Vaheguru even though they are the same.

[WaljinderSingh 834]

Anology:

A tree consists of roots, bark, branches, leaves and flowers. Each of these exist as a feature of the tree and anyone of these do NOT describe being the tree itself.

Likewise, Waheguru ji are not confined to one body, place and/ or time - They are everything and everywhere.

jae ham ko paramaesar ouchar hai | thae sabh narak kundd mehi par hai |

Another Translation:- Those who call themselves God, will fall into the pit of hell.

[Akalifauj 900]

Its a bit confusing to explain this but from what I have understood is that Guru and Vaheguru are ONE, no difference. Even though they are ONE but Guru jee did not want Sikhs to do Bhagti of them. The reason why Guru jee took birth on this world is so people will do Bhagti of Vaheguru and Vaheguru alone. So when Guru jee scolds his Sikhs that you will go to hell if you call me God, it should be seen as an Aadesh or Hukm by Guru ji to not worship Him but to worship Vaheguru even though they are the same.

Let's look at the line carefully.

ਜੋ ਹਮ ਕੋ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਉਚਰਿ ਹੈਂ ॥ ਤੇ ਸਭ ਨਰਕਿ ਕੁੰਡ ਮਹਿ ਪਰਿਹੈਂ ॥

The third word in the first tuk means, to say. The word ਉਚਰਿ means in speech(to speak), to explain but interpreting the word as explain, to speak makes no sense also Guru Sahib doesn't know how to put together a sentence!!! Also the tuk would be complete at ਪਰਮੇਸਰ if we interpret it as those who say I (guru sahib) am Vaheguru. There would be no need to add the last two words.

I believe in this context considering all of the bani before and after. This tuk is saying: who says I (Guru Sahib) is higher(does praise higher of Guru Sahib and singles him out as stand alone without Vaheguru) than Vaheguru. Look at Guru Sahib saying Krishna elected himself as God, which says Krishna is higher than Vaheguru.

[Akalifauj 900]

jae ham ko paramaesar ouchar hai | thae sabh narak kundd mehi par hai |

Translation:- Those who call me God, will fall into the pit of hell.

Look at this translation. They don't even translate ouchar Hai and leave it out. By the above translation the tuk stops at:jae ham ko paramaesar. And then moves on to the next tuk.

[InderjitS 1,244]

Let's be real, Jsinghnz has a point.

I think the brits firstly waited until most of the major powerhouse leaders (under whom Sikhs would've united) were dead (Hari Singh Nalwa, Ranjit Singh, Akali Phoola Singh). Then we do have accounts of A LOT of shaheedi taking place during the Anglo-Sikh wars suggesting that many staunch, pukkay Singhs preferred death to surrender or accepting defeat.

Those that were left were probably of a different calibre (more worldly), and for a variety of reasons (animosity against poorbias, job opportunities, loot, money, land) subordinated themselves.

The actions of those before may not be to his or your liking, my point is specifically in reference to many of our ancestors and their unmoving faith. There is no doubt that this has been on the decline since said leaders, nevertheless there is evidence of more enlightened souls after this time and during both world wars than in recent times. We also took a massive hit in the 80s - 90s, but Sikhi is on the rise again.

Actually thinking out loud and really another topic, Sikhs usually come together as a united force only when at a very low ebb, otherwise they are at each others throats and history is our witness...

[InderjitS 1,244]

jae ham ko paramaesar ouchar hai | thae sabh narak kundd mehi par hai |

Translation:- “Those who call me God, will fall into the pit of hell.

This vaak of maharaj should be seen as scolding of our father, cannot be taken literally. However overall message behind this vaak of this maharaj should be taken seriously. What Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji is saying- don't be attached to my transient (shud bhram sargun) saroop-personal god saroop, don't confine me in transient shud sargun saroop. Realize- your and my real saroop which is Advait- non dual Nirgun saroop via bhagti, shabad dhun, shabad gian- bhramgyan.

We also have the quote ਗੁਰੁ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਏਕੁ ਹੈ ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਮਾਇ, which means both are one roop or have identical attributes and many more which are similarly themed.

I might be wrong but I believe Guru Gobind Singh Jee, quoted 'jo ham ko paramaesar ouchar hai | thae sabh narak kundd mehi par hai |' this out of pure humility, just like Guru Sahib calls themselves, Jan, Daas, Dhoor, Gole in SGGS.

[jkvlondon 5,884]

We also have the quote ਗੁਰੁ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਏਕੁ ਹੈ ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਮਾਇ, which means both are one roop or have identical attributes and many more which are similarly themed.

I might be wrong but I believe Guru Gobind Singh Jee, quoted 'jo ham ko paramaesar ouchar hai | thae sabh narak kundd mehi par hai |' this out of pure humility, just like Guru Sahib calls themselves, Jan, Daas, Dhoor, Gole in SGGS.

exactly... plus he always directed us his Children to not fixate on His deh but on the Nirgun Saroop of Akal Purakh otherwise we make his efforts in vain in all his roops . The true roop is one jot - suraj kiran mile , jal ka jal houa Ram, but the akar deh is Not Akal Purakh only a tiny speck of that awesome truth

[N30S1NGH 3,149]

exactly... plus he always directed us his Children to not fixate on His deh but on the Nirgun Saroop of Akal Purakh otherwise we make his efforts in vain in all his roops . The true roop is one jot - suraj kiran mile , jal ka jal houa Ram, but the akar deh is Not Akal Purakh only a tiny speck of that awesome truth

Exactly. Akaal ustat is great bani to contemplate essence message/updesh by sri guru gobind singh ji to all.

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/76477-akaal-ustat-beautiful-questions-riddles/

[nehkeval 135]

It saddens me to see on this forum and in general among sikhs of the day , degree of spite towards anyone who has different views.

Is it possible for a spiritual person to be hateful ? Aren't we engaging in bedbi by disregarding guru's mahavak - " Na ko bairi nahi begana....."

Agreed the world is not perfect , but our attitude towards correcting it should be driven with passion and zeal , but without animosity and bitterness - after all its all his bhana

e.g I was very hateful towards people like KP gill and Brar but over time I have understood that they were just parts in a play ...having said that it does not mean I will give up pursuit of justice , that should be done so such incidents are not repeated ,but the overloaded emotions are gone ever since I fully internalized "Hukmai andar sab ko bahar hukam na koi "

[jkvlondon 5,884]

It saddens me to see on this forum and in general among sikhs of the day , degree of spite towards anyone who has different views.

Is it possible for a spiritual person to be hateful towards anyone ? Na ko bairi nahi begana.....

Agreed the world is not perfect , but our attitude towards correcting it should be driven with enthusiasm and not zeal , but without animosity and bitterness - afterall its all his bhana

e.g I was very hateful towards people like KP gill and Brar but over time I have understood that they were just parts in a play ...having said that it does not mean I will give up pursuit of justice , that should be done so such incidents are not repeated ,but the overloaded emotions are gone ever since I fully internalized "Hukmai andar sab ko bahar hukam na koi "

students are only as good as their study habits and the attention they paid to the instructions , don't worry all will get there eventually

[InderjitS 1,244]

http://sikhsangat.org/2016/lies-of-gurdarshan-dhillon-rebutted-about-sikh-scripture-sri-dasam-granth/

[Jonny101 4,391]

http://sikhsangat.org/2016/lies-of-gurdarshan-dhillon-rebutted-about-sikh-scripture-sri-dasam-granth/

I never trusted this guy from the start. Well worth reading this article. Good info that everyone should know.

[InderjitS 1,244]

I never trusted this guy from the start. Well worth reading this article. Good info that everyone should know.

He also created mischief at the recent World Sikh Conference in Australia:

He ridiculed Sikhs themselves for “living in a dream world and thinking of a Khalistan” and that how could we speak of such things when we had never read or understood the Indian Constitution. He blamed Sikhs for the Beant regime of 1992-95 due to the boycott of the 1992 election as carried out by major jujharu jathebandis and in doing so, he indirectly is blaming Shaheed Singhs as the cause for major human rights violations and mass disappearances during this time. Nowhere did Dr. Gurdarshan Singh Dhillon point a finger at the Indian State or their agents for the mass atrocities they committed upon the general populace of Punjab from 1984-1995, the finger was pointed straight at the Sikh nation and their “stupidity” as he put it. He referred to Jathedar Jagtar Singh Hawara as “oh kee naa ohda…oh bechara munda jaya jenu jathedar thaap ditta…” (what’s his name…that poor boy who was named jathedar…). This should not be seen as a simple slip of the mind, it was deliberate. Everyone in panthic circles knows who Jathedar Jagtar Singh Hawara is and what his kurbani is and to use this type of terminology was done deliberately to show that Jathedar Hawara is a “nobody” (somebody whose name is easily forgotten) and that he is weak and stupid/bhola (what the term bechara is most often used for). Dr. Dhillon in an overly dramatic way tried to warn those in attendance that if you rise up against the state and ask for sovereignty then don’t forget about the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Elaam (LTTE) and their leader Prabakaran who was killed along with his wife and 8 year old son. Dr. Dhillon again was using this as an attempt to pound the point home that there is no point in separating from India and that we had to lobby the right channels while remaining within India.