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shastarSingh

Baba Deep Singh jee's handwritten ugardanti bani

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1 hour ago, 1Anonymous1 said:

Hanji this bani is mentioned in jail chittityan I think. Bhai sahib used to recite many Dasam bani everyday in jail like chandi Di vaar and charitars, shastar naam mala etc

The tukh he had quoted if I remember correctly was ਦੁਹੂੰ ਪੰਥ ਮੈਂ ਕਪਟ ਵਿੱਦਯਾ ਚਲਾਨੀ || ਬਹੁੜ ਤੀਸਰਾ ਪੰਥ ਕੀਜੈ ਪਰਧਾਨੀ ||

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On 4/28/2020 at 10:02 AM, shastarSingh said:

 

The English translation in that link isn't reliable. ਕਈ ਗਲਤ ਅਰਥ ਕੀਤੇ ਨੇ।

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On 4/29/2020 at 10:56 PM, Jonny101 said:

The English translation in that link isn't reliable. ਕਈ ਗਲਤ ਅਰਥ ਕੀਤੇ ਨੇ।

can u plz tell which meanings r wrong?

it will be a good sewa.

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On 4/29/2020 at 1:39 PM, shastarSingh said:

can u plz tell which meanings r wrong?

it will be a good sewa.

The translator is Harjinder Singh Kanwal. I have his book at home and was reading it a few years ago and noticed many mistranslations done. Here I have listed a few with my own translation in the brackets.

ਸਕਲ ਜਗਤ ਮੋ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਪੰਥ ਗਾਜੇ।।
ਜਗੈ ਧਰਮ ਹਿੰਦੁਕ ਤੁਰਕ ਦੁੰਦ ਭਾਜੇ।।
(Through out the world the Khalsa Panth will be prominent. Within this world the Dharm of the Hindus and Turks will take flight.)

The translater has translated ਜਗੈ to mean ਜਾਗਣਾ when it should mean ਜੱਗ ਵਿੱਚ। 

To support the flow and meaning of this pangti other verses should also be looked at which supports this meaning.

ਦਹੂੰ ਪੰਥ ਮੈਂ ਕਪਟ ਵਿੱਦਯਾ ਚਲਾਨੀ।। 
ਬਹੁੜ ਤੀਸਰ ਪੰਥ ਕੀਜੈ ਪਰਧਾਨੀ।।
(The vidhya of both the Panths(of Hindus and Muslims) is corrupted. Elevate the teesr Panth(over the other two Panths).)

ਮੜੀ ਗੋਰ ਦੇਵਲ ਮਸੀਤਾਂ ਗਿਰਾਯੰ।।
ਤੁਹੀ ਏਕ ਅਕਾਲ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਪਾਯੰ।।
(Demolish the graves, mandhirs and mosques. Make me meditate on the One Akal, Har Har.)

The translator maybe doesn't want to include Hindus so instead of translating ਦੇਵਲ as Mandirs he translates it as monastery in order to disassociate that word from Hindu place of worship.

ਮਿਟਹਿ ਬੇਦ ਸਲਾਵਤ ਅਠਾਰਹਿ ਪੁਰਾਨਾ।।
ਮਿਟੈ ਬਾਂਗ ਸਲਾਵਤ ਸੁਨੰਤ ਕੁਰਾਨਾ।।
(Eradicate the Vedas and eighteen Puranas. Eradicate the Azaan(ਬਾਂਗ), Namaaz, circumcision(ਸੁਨੰਤ) and Quran.)

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On 4/30/2020 at 6:16 AM, Jonny101 said:

ਸਕਲ ਜਗਤ ਮੋ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਪੰਥ ਗਾਜੇ।।
ਜਗੈ ਧਰਮ ਹਿੰਦੁਕ ਤੁਰਕ ਦੁੰਦ ਭਾਜੇ।।
(Through out the world the Khalsa Panth will be prominent. Within this world the Dharm of the Hindus and Turks will take flight.)

The translater has translated ਜਗੈ to mean ਜਾਗਣਾ when it should mean ਜੱਗ ਵਿੱਚ। 

To support the flow and meaning of this pangti other verses should also be looked at which supports this meaning.

Your arth of ਜਗੈ is incorrect. In Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji from what I've seen every example of that word means wake/awaken/illuminate. It would be inconsistent that in this instance it means "world" or "in the world".

Nor is the word "Dharam" used in the bani as your have used in your translation - "Dharam of Hindus/Turks", implying ownership. Dharam does not belong to anyone, there is only one Dharam e.g. ਧਰਮ ਨੇਮ ਕੀ ਜੁਗਤ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਨ ਜਾਨੀ ॥

Anyway, the translation of the pangti above would be:

Dharam will awaken within Hind (Bharat, India), and the Turks will be driven away.

or

The Dharam of Hind [as in the concept of Dharam which was conceived/revealed in Hind/Bharat] will awaken, and the Turks will be driven away.

Which is consistent with the rest of the bani.

On 4/30/2020 at 6:16 AM, Jonny101 said:

ਮਿਟਹਿ ਬੇਦ ਸਲਾਵਤ ਅਠਾਰਹਿ ਪੁਰਾਨਾ।।
ਮਿਟੈ ਬਾਂਗ ਸਲਾਵਤ ਸੁਨੰਤ ਕੁਰਾਨਾ।।
(Eradicate the Vedas and eighteen Puranas. Eradicate the Azaan(ਬਾਂਗ), Namaaz, circumcision(ਸੁਨੰਤ) and Quran.)

This one also doesn't make any sense. The original translation is perfectly fine; ਮਿਟਹਿ is past tense and is also in keeping with the rest of the bani which is not as anti-"Hindu" as you want it to be.

ਮਿਟੈ seems present tense, and again would be in keeping with the bani; to purge the Turks/Mughals/Muslims.

Not to forget that there are several pangtis about the Vedas within Uggardanti, which eradicates your interpretation :

ਨਮੋ ਜੋਤਿ ਜਵਾਲਾ ਤੁਮੈ ਬੇਦ ਗਾਵੈਂ ॥
Salutation to one with the glowing flame that the Vedas and the learned sing praise of.

ਨਮੋ ਵੇਦ ਵਿੱਦਿਯਾ ਨਮੋ ਜੱਗਯ ਰੂਪਾ ॥
Salutation to the giver of Veda knowledge and salutation to the fiery flame of the holy fire (Yug Havan)

ਤੁਹੀ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣੀ ਬੇਦ ਪਾਠਣ ਸਵਿਤ੍ਰੀ ॥
You are Saraswati, the proficient in the Vedas.

ਤੁਹੀ ਸਾਰਦਾ ਬੇਦ ਗਾਯਣ ਸੁਰਸਤੀ ॥
You are the Goddess Saraswati, singing and bestowing eminence to the knowledge of the Vedas.

 

Would be a little ridiculous to eradicate something which is spoken about positively elsewhere in the same text no?

 

Lastly ਦੇਵਲ doesn't explicitly mean Mandir but yes that is one definition of it. And it makes sense....because Dharam has become corrupted asthaans which have corrupt practises should go. But sadly the pangti does not imply anything which would suit your viewpoint.

 

Bhul Chuk Maaf
Gurbar Akaal!

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11 hours ago, MrDoaba said:

Your arth of ਜਗੈ is incorrect. In Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji from what I've seen every example of that word means wake/awaken/illuminate. It would be inconsistent that in this instance it means "world" or "in the world".

Nor is the word "Dharam" used in the bani as your have used in your translation - "Dharam of Hindus/Turks", implying ownership. Dharam does not belong to anyone, there is only one Dharam e.g. ਧਰਮ ਨੇਮ ਕੀ ਜੁਗਤ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਨ ਜਾਨੀ ॥

Anyway, the translation of the pangti above would be:

Dharam will awaken within Hind (Bharat, India), and the Turks will be driven away.

or

The Dharam of Hind [as in the concept of Dharam which was conceived/revealed in Hind/Bharat] will awaken, and the Turks will be driven away.

Which is consistent with the rest of the bani.

This one also doesn't make any sense. The original translation is perfectly fine; ਮਿਟਹਿ is past tense and is also in keeping with the rest of the bani which is not as anti-"Hindu" as you want it to be.

ਮਿਟੈ seems present tense, and again would be in keeping with the bani; to purge the Turks/Mughals/Muslims.

Not to forget that there are several pangtis about the Vedas within Uggardanti, which eradicates your interpretation :

ਨਮੋ ਜੋਤਿ ਜਵਾਲਾ ਤੁਮੈ ਬੇਦ ਗਾਵੈਂ ॥
Salutation to one with the glowing flame that the Vedas and the learned sing praise of.

ਨਮੋ ਵੇਦ ਵਿੱਦਿਯਾ ਨਮੋ ਜੱਗਯ ਰੂਪਾ ॥
Salutation to the giver of Veda knowledge and salutation to the fiery flame of the holy fire (Yug Havan)

ਤੁਹੀ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣੀ ਬੇਦ ਪਾਠਣ ਸਵਿਤ੍ਰੀ ॥
You are Saraswati, the proficient in the Vedas.

ਤੁਹੀ ਸਾਰਦਾ ਬੇਦ ਗਾਯਣ ਸੁਰਸਤੀ ॥
You are the Goddess Saraswati, singing and bestowing eminence to the knowledge of the Vedas.

 

Would be a little ridiculous to eradicate something which is spoken about positively elsewhere in the same text no?

 

Lastly ਦੇਵਲ doesn't explicitly mean Mandir but yes that is one definition of it. And it makes sense....because Dharam has become corrupted asthaans which have corrupt practises should go. But sadly the pangti does not imply anything which would suit your viewpoint.

 

Bhul Chuk Maaf
Gurbar Akaal!

I used to translate that verse just like you. But on further analysis I came to the conclusion that in Bani you will find some instances where ਮਨੈ means ਮੰਨ ਵਿੱਚ similarly ਜਗੈ means ਜੱਗ ਵਿਚ। Furthermore ਜਗੈ has never been used to mean ਜਾਗਣਾ। Even in Hindi which uses shorter vowels than Punjabi .also uses the long vowel Jaag(जाग) to mean awaken.

ਧਰਮ means different things in different places. ਧਰਮ can be used as plural to mean many Dharms i.e. many religious ways and it can also be used as singular to mean the one supreme ਧਰਮ। For example:

ਸਰਬ ਧਰਮ ਮਹਿ ਸ੍ਰੇਸਟ ਧਰਮੁ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਕੋ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਿ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਕਰਮੁ ॥

In the first Pangti ਸਰਬ ਧਰਮ means of all the Dharms the second time Dharm in the same verse is used it is singular to mean the ਸ੍ਰੇਸ਼ਟ Dharm is the Dharm where naam is recited i.e. Gurmat.

So Gurbani is saying that the Dharms which do not Jap Naam are not ਸ੍ਰੇਸ਼ਟ।

ਸਕਲ ਜਗਤ ਮੋ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਪੰਥ ਗਾਜੈ।।
ਜਗੈ ਧਰਮ ਹਿੰਦੁਕ ਤੁਰਕਨ ਦੁੰਦ ਭਾਜੈ।।
According to me this would mean:
(ਕਿਰਪਾ ਕਰ, ਸਾਰੇ ਜਗਤ ਵਿੱਚ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਪੰਥ ਗੱਜੇ। ਜੱਗ ਵਿਚ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਤੇ ਇਸਲਾਮੀ ਧਰਮ ਨੂੰ ਮੰਨਣ ਵਾਲੇ(ਖਾਲਸੇ ਦੇ ਰਾਹ ਤੋਂ) ਭੱਜ ਨਸ ਜਾਣ।)

I don't know why you would use ਮਿਟਹਿ to mean forgotten. ਮਿਟਹਿ means eradicate or ਮਿਟ ਜਾਏ, ਮੁੱਕ ਜਾਏ. Even in Bani it is used to mean eradicate ਮਿਟਹਿ ਕਲੇਸ ਸੁਖੀ ਹੋਇ ਰਹੀਐ. Within Ugardanti too it has been used to mean ਮੁਕਾ ਦੇਣਾ, ਖਤਮ ਕਰ ਦੇਣਾ

ਤੁਰਕ ਹਿੰਦ ਕਾ ਸਕਲ ਝਗਰਾ ਮਿਟਾਊਂ
(ਤੁਰਕਾਂ ਤੇ ਹਿੰਦੂਆਂ ਦਾ ਸਾਰਾ ਝਗੜਾ ਖਤਮ ਕਰ ਦੇਵਾਂ)

My interpretation of these verses makes perfect sense when one reads the following Bani:

ਪਾਂਇ ਗਹੇ ਜਬ ਤੇ ਤੁਮਰੇ ਤਬ ਤੇ ਕੋਊ ਆਂਖ ਤਰੇ ਨਹੀ ਆਨਯੋ ॥ ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕੁਰਾਨ ਅਨੇਕ ਕਹੈਂ ਮਤ ਏਕ ਨ ਮਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬੇਦ ਸਭੈ ਬਹੁ ਭੇਦ ਕਹੈ ਹਮ ਏਕ ਨ ਜਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਸਿਪਾਨ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਤੁਮਰੀ ਕਰਿ ਮੈ ਨ ਕਹਯੋ ਸਭ ਤੋਹਿ ਬਖਾਨਯੋ ॥੮੬੩॥

The religions of the Vedas and Quran are corrupt which is why the teesr Panth had to be pragat.

And ਦੇਵਲ literally means place where Devas are worshipped. Why give an alternative meaning? Does ਮਸੀਤ now also have an alternative meaning?

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On 5/2/2020 at 11:22 AM, Jonny101 said:

I used to translate that verse just like you. But on further analysis I came to the conclusion that in Bani you will find some instances where ਮਨੈ means ਮੰਨ ਵਿੱਚ similarly ਜਗੈ means ਜੱਗ ਵਿਚ। Furthermore ਜਗੈ has never been used to mean ਜਾਗਣਾ। Even in Hindi which uses shorter vowels than Punjabi .also uses the long vowel Jaag(जाग) to mean awaken.

ਧਰਮ means different things in different places. ਧਰਮ can be used as plural to mean many Dharms i.e. many religious ways and it can also be used as singular to mean the one supreme ਧਰਮ। For example:

ਸਰਬ ਧਰਮ ਮਹਿ ਸ੍ਰੇਸਟ ਧਰਮੁ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਕੋ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਿ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਕਰਮੁ ॥

In the first Pangti ਸਰਬ ਧਰਮ means of all the Dharms the second time Dharm in the same verse is used it is singular to mean the ਸ੍ਰੇਸ਼ਟ Dharm is the Dharm where naam is recited i.e. Gurmat.

So Gurbani is saying that the Dharms which do not Jap Naam are not ਸ੍ਰੇਸ਼ਟ।

ਸਕਲ ਜਗਤ ਮੋ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਪੰਥ ਗਾਜੈ।।
ਜਗੈ ਧਰਮ ਹਿੰਦੁਕ ਤੁਰਕਨ ਦੁੰਦ ਭਾਜੈ।।
According to me this would mean:
(ਕਿਰਪਾ ਕਰ, ਸਾਰੇ ਜਗਤ ਵਿੱਚ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਪੰਥ ਗੱਜੇ। ਜੱਗ ਵਿਚ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਤੇ ਇਸਲਾਮੀ ਧਰਮ ਨੂੰ ਮੰਨਣ ਵਾਲੇ(ਖਾਲਸੇ ਦੇ ਰਾਹ ਤੋਂ) ਭੱਜ ਨਸ ਜਾਣ।)

I don't know why you would use ਮਿਟਹਿ to mean forgotten. ਮਿਟਹਿ means eradicate or ਮਿਟ ਜਾਏ, ਮੁੱਕ ਜਾਏ. Even in Bani it is used to mean eradicate ਮਿਟਹਿ ਕਲੇਸ ਸੁਖੀ ਹੋਇ ਰਹੀਐ. Within Ugardanti too it has been used to mean ਮੁਕਾ ਦੇਣਾ, ਖਤਮ ਕਰ ਦੇਣਾ

ਤੁਰਕ ਹਿੰਦ ਕਾ ਸਕਲ ਝਗਰਾ ਮਿਟਾਊਂ
(ਤੁਰਕਾਂ ਤੇ ਹਿੰਦੂਆਂ ਦਾ ਸਾਰਾ ਝਗੜਾ ਖਤਮ ਕਰ ਦੇਵਾਂ)

My interpretation of these verses makes perfect sense when one reads the following Bani:

ਪਾਂਇ ਗਹੇ ਜਬ ਤੇ ਤੁਮਰੇ ਤਬ ਤੇ ਕੋਊ ਆਂਖ ਤਰੇ ਨਹੀ ਆਨਯੋ ॥ ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕੁਰਾਨ ਅਨੇਕ ਕਹੈਂ ਮਤ ਏਕ ਨ ਮਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬੇਦ ਸਭੈ ਬਹੁ ਭੇਦ ਕਹੈ ਹਮ ਏਕ ਨ ਜਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਸਿਪਾਨ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਤੁਮਰੀ ਕਰਿ ਮੈ ਨ ਕਹਯੋ ਸਭ ਤੋਹਿ ਬਖਾਨਯੋ ॥੮੬੩॥

The religions of the Vedas and Quran are corrupt which is why the teesr Panth had to be pragat.

And ਦੇਵਲ literally means place where Devas are worshipped. Why give an alternative meaning? Does ਮਸੀਤ now also have an alternative meaning?

Whatever it maybe, current RSS and hindutva is definitely not that "dharam" . they're adharmis 

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On 4/27/2020 at 9:50 AM, Jonny101 said:

Another important dasam Bani that has been largely discarded by Sikhs. Even Sikhs who read Dasam Granth have discarded this Bani unfortunately. Only Nihangs and Kukas read it now.

Hello ji, can you tell me some more bani from Dasam Granth that have been “discarded” or taken out? Sorry if this question has been answered elsewhere or if it is disrespectful - I’m new and trying to learn more about Sikhi. Are there different versions is Dasam Granth with some bani removed and retained? If so, what is the most untouched?

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3 hours ago, SimarjeetSingh said:

Hello ji, can you tell me some more bani from Dasam Granth that have been “discarded” or taken out? Sorry if this question has been answered elsewhere or if it is disrespectful - I’m new and trying to learn more about Sikhi. Are there different versions is Dasam Granth with some bani removed and retained? If so, what is the most untouched?

yes there are versions containing Ugardanti and some without.

The printing press version as standardised by Soday committee with Ugardanti removed, EVEN THOUGH Ugardanti is an important nitnem bani in traditional sampradaiye including Budha Dal, Tarna Dal, Akali Nihang Singhs. You probably won't even hear Ugardanti from SGPC and their rehit maryada!

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On 5/4/2020 at 3:10 AM, ipledgeblue said:

yes there are versions containing Ugardanti and some without.

The printing press version as standardised by Soday committee with Ugardanti removed, EVEN THOUGH Ugardanti is an important nitnem bani in traditional sampradaiye including Budha Dal, Tarna Dal, Akali Nihang Singhs. You probably won't even hear Ugardanti from SGPC and their rehit maryada!

So, when I get to the point of reciting Dasam Granth, I should try to also read Ugardanti and Bansavalinama as that was once a part of the Granth. Is there a source you have with the complete Granth available online or in-print?

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