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If all sikhs avoided alcohol (I’m including anyone who claims to be sikh) then there would be a huge reduction in problems that happen in this community right now. Divorce rate would go down as so many couples split based on the male drinking too much which effects a relationship. Sikhs wouldnt be as into going to clubs. Less interfaith relationships. Premarital relationships would be more PG. Everyone’s health would also be better. There is a huge alcohol problem amongst sikhs which really needs to be changed. I don’t see how it can change now though. 

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18 minutes ago, learningkaur said:

If all sikhs avoided alcohol (I’m including anyone who claims to be sikh) then there would be a huge reduction in problems that happen in this community right now. Divorce rate would go down as so many couples split based on the male drinking too much which effects a relationship. Sikhs wouldnt be as into going to clubs. Less interfaith relationships. Premarital relationships would be more PG. Everyone’s health would also be better. There is a huge alcohol problem amongst sikhs which really needs to be changed. I don’t see how it can change now though. 

I know some nihangs who drink alcohol.

they just slowly sip around 40 ml of alcohol before sleeping and they get up at 1 am for doing simran.

these nihangs hv fear of sangat of fellow nihangs and they never over drink.

All the problems mentioned in ur post are of manmukh Sikhs over drinking alcohol. they abuse alcohol.

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55 minutes ago, shastarSingh said:

I know some nihangs who drink alcohol.

they just slowly sip around 40 ml of alcohol before sleeping and they get up at 1 am for doing simran.

these nihangs hv fear of sangat of fellow nihangs and they never over drink.

All the problems mentioned in ur post are of manmukh Sikhs over drinking alcohol. they abuse alcohol.

The primary effect of alcohol is impaired judgment and it's highly addictive. The  seeming initial moderate phase is always temporary. I've watched a horde of moderate drinkers slowly fade into alcoholics before my eyes as I poured their drinks. Deeply in the clutches of their addiction while slurring their moderation speech, gone before they ever realized it. It's a lie bro. It scores up there with coke, crack, meth and heroine for addictiveness and destructiveness. I pray these Nihangs are blessed with sobriety. Alcohol is the amrit of the devil. 

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2 hours ago, learningkaur said:

Divorce rate would go down as so many couples split based on the male drinking too much which effects a relationship.

I think overall alcohol plays lesser role in marriages breaking up, there are couples where neither the females drinks nor the male yet they still break up. The divorce issue in the "community" is a lot more to do with the compatibility of an old tired practice like marriage in today's time. For many reality hits them on the face once they get married. I'm not into comparing the Punjabi communities problems to other Asian communities but divorce rate is really high in other Asian communities as well. Marriage is fast becoming an outdated practice for many people in the west, just look how many breakups and divorces there have been because of the lock down in this country. In the Asian communities the divorce is a clash of the new ways and the old ways.The concept of Punjabi marriage and finding the balance between traditional and modern is really failing to fit into the modern western world,  just like marriage in many other cultures is. Dating and live in relationships are becoming more and more popular in the Punjabi community. My cousin brother in Canada for example lives with his parents and sister but his girlfriend also lives with him too, and its working out for them! his ex also used to live with them. Children out of wedlock are becoming more common in Punjabi community as well, perhaps these kind of relationships are the way forward for many people, obviously not for all though ... 

We tend to find faults in all sorts of things when a marriage starts ending, but in reality, for most young people marriage really is an old tradition which just doesn't fit in with the fast changing western society that they live in, same go'es for all  Punjabis, Whites, Blacks etc  They still end up marrying because if your Punjabi then your are "supposed" to marry but once they marry reality really hits them in the face like a ton of bricks and they just don't like it!  Is it any surprise that the divorce rate is so high in the Punjabi community. Parents forcing marriage onto their kids will only result in more divorces.

The more ethnic people assimilate into their host country the more like them you become, same go'es for marriage. The other day i was reading how in the country 70% of young people 16-25 said they have no religion. 

 

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12 minutes ago, puzzled said:

The divorce issue in the "community" is a lot more to do with the compatibility of an old tired practice like marriage in today's time. For many reality hits them in the face once they get married. I'm not into comparing the Punjabi communities problems to other Asian communities but divorce rate is really high in other Asian communities as well. Marriage is fast becoming an outdated practice for many people in the west, just look how many breakups and divorces there have been because of the lock down in this country. In the Asian communities the divorce is a clash of the new ways and the old ways.The concept of Punjabi marriage and finding the balance between traditional and modern is really failing to fit into the modern western world,  just like marriage in many other cultures is. Dating and live in relationships are becoming more and more popular in the Punjabi community.

Hmm....sounds very worrying because people are treating their partners as if they are a "thing" that can be easily exchanged and replaced. 

 

What could be the potential solutions? 

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15 minutes ago, DoabeyWali said:

Hmm....sounds very worrying because people are treating their partners as if they are a "thing" that can be easily exchanged and replaced. 

 

What could be the potential solutions? 

I don't think there is a solution tbh unless people start turning the clock backwards which is impossible.

We are a part of the society we live in, the society is not a part of us, the way society is and the direction things are heading an old practice like marriage is just becoming more and more difficult to sustain and less desirable. Old traditions and practices are fast fading, same is happening with marriage too. The lifestyle people live and the outlook they have, marriage is just a outdated practice. 

I mean what does marriage mean? what is the purpose? what is your role in it? What do you want from the marriage? are these questions and discussions relevant to a young person in the west. 

As for replacing partners, I'v seen people doing that a lot as well, people changing partners like buying new clothes, well it says a lot about us as a modern society.

I was reading some statistics and in this country 35% women cheat on their husbands, while 51% men cheat on their wives, that is very high!  another reason why people might find marriages outdated.

As society moves on, the old ways and practices become less compatible and they start vanishing, same is happening with marriage too, and you can't turn society back ...

I guess people just find dating and live in relations easier and less fussy! 

Looking at the direction things are heading dating has become the norm in the wider Punjabi community, dating non Punjabis has become normal and parents are becoming more and more accepting of these changes, so i think the next thing will be the decline of marriage in the Punjabi community. 

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Here's the answer

Intoxication: Consumption of drugs, alcohol, and tobacco, and other intoxicants is not allowed for Amritdhari Sikhs and Keshdhari Sikhs. Drugs, alcohol and tobacco are forbidden for all.

---

Chapter 10, Artice XVI - Living in Consonance with Guru’s Tenets

j. A Sikh must not take hemp (cannabis), opium, liquor, tobacco, in short any intoxicant. His only routine intake should be food.

Source: SRM

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10 hours ago, puzzled said:

I think overall alcohol plays lesser role in marriages breaking up, there are couples where neither the females drinks nor the male yet they still break up.


I know of a lot of couples where the man drinks and due to this the woman is fed up of the him sitting in the pub, not helping with the kids, I could make a big list but all these consequences to alcohol create a lot of arguments the next day! Which can then lead to the failure of a marriage.

I know a few women who still haven’t managed to move out of their inlaws houses and buy their own house after years and years which they really want to do... all because their husbands disposable income is all spent at the pub.
 

I’m in the midlands and there’s a big pub culture here. 

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5 hours ago, learningkaur said:


I know of a lot of couples where the man drinks and due to this the woman is fed up of the him sitting in the pub, not helping with the kids, I could make a big list but all these consequences to alcohol create a lot of arguments the next day! Which can then lead to the failure of a marriage.

I know a few women who still haven’t managed to move out of their inlaws houses and buy their own house after years and years which they really want to do... all because their husbands disposable income is all spent at the pub.
 

I’m in the midlands and there’s a big pub culture here. 

Yeah I am aware of divorces because of alcohol, but among younger people a lot of the time it ends because it just doesnt go with their outlook and lifestyle. In my family marriages last around one year and then they break up, in fact, it's sad but even before the couple gets married the parents are already worried. The reality of marriage just doesnt live up to the expectations. 

First divorce that happened in my family was around 15 years ago and it was shocking, I was just a kid but I remember how bad it was considered. It lasted a year, and then they decided marriage just isnt for them and they separated, it all started when his wife said she wants to go to the lake district for their 3rd holiday of the year but he didnt want to go to the lake district and it just didnt recover after that. And his wifes exact words were "dating was better". Since then most marriages in my family and extended family have been unsuccessful, they dont even survive a year.

But its no surprise, it's just how communities and cultures naturally evolve, traditions that are no longer appealing or compatible just get discarded.

I mean dumping your parents in care homes is now becoming the norm, moving out once your married is now the normal thing, interfaith marriages have become so common that akal Takht had to get involved,  all of this would of been unheard off couple of decades back, but culture changes, and we are seeing the same thing happening with marriages, its fast becoming irrelevant. 

Clearly younger people find dating and live in relationships more easier, there are Punjabi youtubers who are in live in relationships and they make videos talking about it and it seems to be working! And parents seem to be adjusting to it. 

But yes, alcohol is a problem in marriages, but I bet you those men that sit in pubs all day would rather be divorced than be bound to their "marriages" it's only because of pressure from families that they themselves are in these "marriages"   but younger people don't give into pressure from families etc and go straight for the divorce. 

I'm from down south, most my family are up in the Midlands and people really are party animals up there! Lol   pub culture definitely is a lot more popular up there than down here.  My family from there tell me that people from down south are boring and dull! 

 

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15 minutes ago, puzzled said:

I mean dumping your parents in care homes is now becoming the norm, moving out once your married is now the normal thing

The care home thing- I think many of us who are 20-30s generation and below will end up buying retirement homes. I don’t personally see it as a really bad thing. It is what it is. Just have to try to keep healthy and fit so you can do a lot for yourself. I don’t want my kids to have to revolve their life around me, if they want to go abroad or just have some peace as a couple without me there in their face every day it’s fine by me.

I don’t think not living with your inlaws is a bad thing. Everyone has a better relationship with space between them. You sometimes can be emotionally closer by living apart. People first did it when they arrived here as they moved here and needed to save money.

A lot of women are mistreated living with inlaws, I don’t know many daughter in laws who are actually treated like daughters and not under pressure to please everyone. Women deserve to be comfortable in their own homes and for things like their own family to come over and visit comfortably, something that rarely happens when you live together with inlaws. Plus kids deserve to have space to sleep in, a proper study area if you can afford it.

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5 hours ago, learningkaur said:


I know of a lot of couples where the man drinks and due to this the woman is fed up of the him sitting in the pub, not helping with the kids, I could make a big list but all these consequences to alcohol create a lot of arguments the next day! Which can then lead to the failure of a marriage.

I know a few women who still haven’t managed to move out of their inlaws houses and buy their own house after years and years which they really want to do... all because their husbands disposable income is all spent at the pub.
 

 

What I noticed with apnay drinking in a marriage is that some seem to be able to handle it and function relatively normally  but some get a few in them and do that stereotype pendu thing of getting becoming 'soormay' and getting aggressive and abusive towards those close to them. Like Jekyll and Hyde.  I really feel sorry for women married to blokes like that. 

 

Quote

I’m in the midlands and there’s a big pub culture here. 

Those blokes are too busy 'aving pint down pub and sticking ferrets down their pent....

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7 minutes ago, learningkaur said:

The care home thing- I think many of us who are 20-30s generation and below will end up buying retirement homes. I don’t personally see it as a really bad thing. It is what it is. Just have to try to keep healthy and fit so you can do a lot for yourself. I don’t want my kids to have to revolve their life around me, if they want to go abroad or just have some peace as a couple without me there in their face every day it’s fine by me.I don’t think not living with your inlaws is a bad thing. Everyone has a better relationship with space between them. You sometimes can be emotionally closer by living apart. People first did it when they arrived here as they moved here and needed to save money.

 

That's the attitude that will prevail I guess. In the end, a lot of the younger generations don't feel that fear about being on their own like the olders from back home do. I do believe that absence can make the heart grow fonder and decent children will make effort to keep in touch with their parents regardless. I Think lots of parent-children relationships actually go sour because people are in each others face so much and irritate each other over long periods of time. 


 

Quote


A lot of women are mistreated living with inlaws, I don’t know many daughter in laws who are actually treated like daughters and not under pressure to please everyone. Women deserve to be comfortable in their own homes and for things like their own family to come over and visit comfortably, something that rarely happens when you live together with inlaws. Plus kids deserve to have space to sleep in, a proper study area if you can afford it.

That's the white elephant a lot of momma boys apnay don't want to face. There is a strange Queen Bee syndrome that is prevalent in the females of the older generations. Even an otherwise innocuous looking buddhi can turn into a demented, petty control freak when a new younger female enters a household. Then they make it all crazy about the loyalty of their sons and husbands towards themselves  in some strange jealous streak. Then a strange female power struggle ensues in the house making a toxic environment. 

Not all buddhriyan are like this, but it is something that isn't uncommon too. Yeah, a lot of apneean really seem to have difficulties in accepting and treating a new bride like a daughter. But females need to face up to this and admit this is a problem in between themselves.  

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22 minutes ago, shastarSingh said:

dallysingh 101

veer jee wat do u think of drinking alcohol in small amounts like 30-40 ml before sleeping?

Veera, is a Sikh forum any sort of place to condone drinking, especially given what has been mentioned above with how alcoholism or drink culture can negatively impact families and especially effects females who have to bear the brunt of this? 

That being said, apnay need to stop being in denial about this issue in the community. 

 

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20 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Veera, is a Sikh forum any sort of place to condone drinking, especially given what has been mentioned above with how alcoholism or drink culture can negatively impact families and especially effects females who have to bear the brunt of this? 

That being said, apnay need to stop being in denial about this issue in the community. 

 

wat about the British sources mentioning Singhs drinking liquor?

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