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2 hours ago, Ranjeet01 said:

They lack empathy and compassion. 

They are narcissists and are sociopaths. 

What's the source of this?

I know such people have genetic dispositions that get activated through circumstances. Or does our own Panjabi culture play a part - either through harsh upbringings or narcissistic selfish behaviour being encouraged from a young age? 

I think many of us have got some NPD types in our families.

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12 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

What's the source of this?

I know such people have genetic dispositions that get activated through circumstances. Or does our own Panjabi culture play a part - either through harsh upbringings or narcissistic selfish behaviour being encouraged from a young age? 

I think many of us have got some NPD types in our families.

I think it is a mixture of both, partly the culture and some it from certain dispositions. I think certain behaviours can be passed down genetically. 

It is a society where being honest and decent is seen as weakness and deserves to be exploited and being cunning and dishonest is valued. 

Punjab has got things the wrong way around, this makes for a toxic environment. 

I now know why people in India get beaten to a pulp to get them to behave correctly. I don't condone this behavior but I understand. 

These are people who cannot be reasoned with. 

If you are person who is by nature empathic, it will suffocate you.

 

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19 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

If you are person who is by nature empathic, it will suffocate you.

I'm pretty sure narcissists have some inbuilt radar to pick up on empathetic people and target them. They feed off this. Also, I agree, violence or out maneuvering is the only thing they understand to adapt their inner drives (or at least conceal them better). Even then, they can be vindictive as hell, and contrive for revenge whenever the opportunity avails itself. 

These people (because of a lack of being able to feel some normal human emotions) often create dysfunction all around them and they feed off this energy.  They often portray a public image in stark opposition to what they are like inside - and get into white hot rages when this gets exposed.

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29 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

I'm pretty sure narcissists have some inbuilt radar to pick up on empathetic people and target them. They feed off this. Also, I agree, violence or out maneuvering is the only thing they understand to adapt their inner drives (or at least conceal them better). Even then, they can be vindictive as hell, and contrive for revenge whenever the opportunity avails itself. 

These people (because of a lack of being able to feel some normal human emotions) often create dysfunction all around them and they feed off this energy.  They often portray a public image in stark opposition to what they are like inside - and get into white hot rages when this gets exposed.

The narcissist pick up on the empath. 

Then they feed off them like parasites. I think the term is 'narcissistic supply'.

They feed off your energy, once they got what they wanted, they discard you.

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1 hour ago, Ranjeet01 said:

If you are person who is by nature empathic, it will suffocate you.

I concur. Rewiring this aspect of a individual's hardwired "aatmic" (the part of us that is beyond the nurture aspect) personality is probably the hardest thing someone can hope to achieve. For a male, especially in this current age, to exist in such a way is a one-way road to self destruction. 

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9 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

I concur. Rewiring this aspect of a individual's hardwired "aatmic" (the part of us that is beyond the nurture aspect) personality is probably the hardest thing someone can hope to achieve. For a male, especially in this current age, to exist in such a way is a one-way road to self destruction. 

You can't change your nature but there are steps you can take. 

Once you are aware of your nature,  then it becomes easier. You learn how to spot the narcissist/sociopath better and learn how to keep them at arm's length. 

Sometimes you have no choice but to interact with them but you keep conversations at a bare minimum.  You have keep your boundaries. 

But of course in our community you have the 'enablers ' who either consciously or unconsciously bring in circumstances where you get dragged into interacting with these types. 

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15 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

You can't change your nature but there are steps you can take. 

Once you are aware of your nature,  then it becomes easier. You learn how to spot the narcissist/sociopath better and learn how to keep them at arm's length. 

Sometimes you have no choice but to interact with them but you keep conversations at a bare minimum.  You have keep your boundaries. 

But of course in our community you have the 'enablers ' who either consciously or unconsciously bring in circumstances where you get dragged into interacting with these types. 

There's definitely caveats to "recognising the human race as one." But don't say it so loudly. 😅😁

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2 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

I concur. Rewiring this aspect of a individual's hardwired "aatmic" (the part of us that is beyond the nurture aspect) personality is probably the hardest thing someone can hope to achieve. For a male, especially in this current age, to exist in such a way is a one-way road to self destruction. 

Even goray are at a loss on how to 'treat' this 'condition'. You just have to become aware and take protective measures for yourself and those you love. 

From what I've seen the narc essentially destroy themselves in the long run through poor health choices and becoming unbearable to those close to them. When they do self-destructive things, their own egos makes it pretty much impossible for them to critically assess their behaviour (because they have grandiose notions of never being 'wrong'). It's like watching a car crash in seriously slow motion. Which can be sickening if they are close relatives. If you have such people around, protect yourself firstly and also try and attenuate the negative effects of their behaviour on vulnerable people around them like children. 

The other thing is that they are invariably compulsive liars, so getting to any solid ground through conversation with them is impossible.  It isn't even worth trying. 

2 hours ago, Ranjeet01 said:

But of course in our community you have the 'enablers ' who either consciously or unconsciously bring in circumstances where you get dragged into interacting with these types. 

I think narcs sometimes 'unionise' with other narcs to target people and jointly feed on events.  I think they can intuitively sense each other. 

 

This is a good video to watch about them. 

 

2 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

There's definitely caveats to "recognising the human race as one." But don't say it so loudly. 😅😁

I think that is covered by our thing through the devtay-daint conceptualisation. Bad people do exist and we do need to combat them, our thing is in no illusion about this, and we've even been instructed to be armed incase it comes to that.  

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50 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Even goray are at a loss on how to 'treat' this 'condition'. You just have to become aware and take protective measures for yourself and those you love. 

The events and conditions to arrive at that stage are beyond the average person. Modern existence is a slow, sweet death of the conscience. 

For me it was a sudden, inadvertent shock  followed by years of painful self realisation. It's still an ongoing journey for me made slightly less complicated due to being left to my own devices. Those steeped in siblings, partners, offspring, etc., are basically trapped for life. If the will is there, the day to day reality of life limits what someone can do to actualise their will.

Living in a wholly materialistic environment (which is the entire developed world at this moment in humanity's journey) is the final nail in the coffin. A person actually needs to be chewed up and spat out by life to arrive at a place where the modern world lets you go. When you're broken and defeated, then you can begin the journey. But who in this age will happily and knowingly allow themselves to arrive at such a place? Life without a safety net. Sink or swim. 

First stage is to disconnect from the "programming." See beyond the lies of your so-called betters. These people are where they are for a reason: to herd the cattle to a place from where escape is impossible.

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21 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

The events and conditions to arrive at that stage are beyond the average person.

I agree. Many will literally go bonkers through this. But I do believe that the flipside to the negative aspects of Panjabi character and it's often sociopathic nature, is the inheritance of an abnormally strong mental constitution which can combat this. Some of us have this, I'm guessing you're one of them? 

Quote

Modern existence is a slow, sweet death of the conscience. 

I don't think it's a modern phenomena at all. Most social structures seem to be designed to kill the conscience and turn us into unquestioning drones. Caste system in India is a perfect example of this from outside of the modern world.

Quote

For me it was a sudden, inadvertent shock  followed by years of painful self realisation. It's still an ongoing journey for me made slightly less complicated due to being left to my own devices. Those steeped in siblings, partners, offspring, etc., are basically trapped for life. If the will is there, the day to day reality of life limits what someone can do to actualise their will.

I hear that. The realising that close ones have these 'mental health issues' like under discussion, is nothing short of traumatic. And I'm talking about someone who studied psychology previously. It's a shock with covert sociopaths who've been under the radar, under your nose, in power positions (like olders) for all your life wreaking havoc. It makes you look at everything gone by in a new light. It's not a nice experience. But if you've inherited that Panjabi 'protective factor' instead of the sociopathy, you're lucky as f**k! You'll feel deep pain, but you'll survive it, and be more clued up than the average bod.

Quote

Living in a wholly materialistic environment (which is the entire developed world at this moment in humanity's journey) is the final nail in the coffin. A person actually needs to be chewed up and spat out by life to arrive at a place where the modern world lets you go. When you're broken and defeated, then you can begin the journey. But who in this age will happily and knowingly allow themselves to arrive at such a place? Life without a safety net. Sink or swim. 

I've always leaned on dukh daru sukh rog paiyaa to deal with this myself. Resistance often leads to strength. I don't think people in the past who had to deal with dysfunctional, suppressive systems like caste or the Moghuls had it any different - maybe much more worse? 

Quote

First stage is to disconnect from the "programming." See beyond the lies of your so-called betters. These people are where they are for a reason: to herd the cattle to a place from where escape is impossible.

Yep. Then you go through the solitary journey that either makes or breaks you. Just to give you another insight. I've got a fair few sociopath types in the family. What I've learned recently is that if you stick to your guns, a few of the younger ones clock onto what is going on and become allies. Even when it's their own parent whose acting dysfunctionally. These kids are sometimes very well armed in disarming the antics of their olders, providing they have support and other trustable family to turn to. If you're in a position of just looking after yourself - that has positives and negatives - focus on the former. 

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14 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

I agree. Many will literally go bonkers through this. But I do believe that the flipside to the negative aspects of Panjabi character and it's often sociopathic nature, is the inheritance of an abnormally strong mental constitution which can combat this. Some of us have this, I'm guessing you're one of them? 

I don't think it's a modern phenomena at all. Most social structures seem to be designed to kill the conscience and turn us into unquestioning drones. Caste system in India is a perfect example of this from outside of the modern world.

I hear that. The realising that close ones have these 'mental health issues' like under discussion, is nothing short of traumatic. And I'm talking about someone who studied psychology previously. It's a shock with covert sociopaths who've been under the radar, under your nose, in power positions (like olders) for all your life wreaking havoc. It makes you look at everything gone by in a new light. It's not a nice experience. But if you've inherited that Panjabi 'protective factor' instead of the sociopathy, you're lucky as f**k! You'll feel deep pain, but you'll survive it, and be more clued up than the average bod.

I've always leaned on dukh daru sukh rog paiyaa to deal with this myself. Resistance often leads to strength. I don't think people in the past who had to deal with dysfunctional, suppressive systems like caste or the Moghuls had it any different - maybe much more worse? 

Yep. Then you go through the solitary journey that either makes or breaks you. Just to give you another insight. I've got a fair few sociopath types in the family. What I've learned recently is that if you stick to your guns, a few of the younger ones clock onto what is going on and become allies. Even when it's their own parent whose acting dysfunctionally. These kids are sometimes very well armed in disarming the antics of their olders, providing they have support and other trustable family to turn to. If you're in a position of just looking after yourself - that has positives and negatives - focus on the former. 

It's the covert types that hit you the most. Once you know and see the signs, you can never go back.

It's the body language, tone of voice, micro-expressions you have to notice. They give off a certain energy. 

The overt/grandiose ones are there for all to see.

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3 hours ago, Ranjeet01 said:

It's the covert types that hit you the most. Once you know and see the signs, you can never go back.

It's the body language, tone of voice, micro-expressions you have to notice. They give off a certain energy. 

The overt/grandiose ones are there for all to see.

Yeah, I can spot them from miles away now. Unfortunately this type is also adept at worming and scheming themselves into positions of power - so they are usually at advantage in work hierarchies, and as you've noticed, they can sense your heart and that often makes them hone in. They are VERY jealous and just being liked by others is enough to set them off. They are hyper vigilant, although they act nonchalant, and save bits of info to use against you at a later date. 

You're right - they give off an energy you can sense a mile away, just from their presence and facial expressions - even without talking. We must give off an energy too, that they sense. 

Their language is another giveaway, they don't talk about feelings, unless it's their own disgruntlement at something. They are completely oblivious to the feelings of others. They often go overboard to try and portray themselves as 'nice people' and go mental when anyone cracks the facade. 

I think they really struggle with abstract thoughts and concepts, hence the sole anchoring on material and status and exterior presentation. A materialistic bimbo is their best bet for a partner (they like trophy wives/girlfriends), I feel really sorry for some of the poor women that get embroiled with them only to realise what they are dealing with years down the line after years of emotional abuse and neglect and having kids with them (who get embroiled in the narcs emotional games). They are really good at charming the f**k out of naive people to get what they want.    

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11 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

Yeah, I can spot them from miles away now. Unfortunately this type is also adept at worming and scheming themselves into positions of power - so they are usually at advantage in work hierarchies, and as you've noticed, they can sense your heart and that often makes them hone in. They are VERY jealous and just being liked by others is enough to set them off. They are hyper vigilant, although they act nonchalant, and save bits of info to use against you at a later date. 

You're right - they give off an energy you can sense a mile away, just from their presence and facial expressions - even without talking. We must give off an energy too, that they sense. 

Their language is another giveaway, they don't talk about feelings, unless it's their own disgruntlement at something. They are completely oblivious to the feelings of others. They often go overboard to try and portray themselves as 'nice people' and go mental when anyone cracks the facade. 

I think they really struggle with abstract thoughts and concepts, hence the sole anchoring on material and status and exterior presentation. A materialistic bimbo is their best bet for a partner (they like trophy wives/girlfriends), I feel really sorry for some of the poor women that get embroiled with them only to realise what they are dealing with years down the line after years of emotional abuse and neglect and having kids with them (who get embroiled in the narcs emotional games). They are really good at charming the f**k out of naive people to get what they want.    

Corporate life is full of narcissists and sociopaths. I have seen Finance Directors turn very "nice" when they have to. In larger companies, you are more of a politician than an innovator. 

Particular professions like sales seem to attract these types. 

Companies and departments with overwhelming number of women can be very much like that as well.

 

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14 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

I think they really struggle with abstract thoughts and concepts, hence the sole anchoring on material and status and exterior presentation. A materialistic bimbo is their best bet for a partner (they like trophy wives/girlfriends), I feel really sorry for some of the poor women that get embroiled with them only to realise what they are dealing with years down the line after years of emotional abuse and neglect and having kids with them (who get embroiled in the narcs emotional games). They are really good at charming the f**k out of naive people to get what they want.    

You shouldn't pity them. They know very well what kind of guy they're getting involved with, it's just that they happen to prioritise the material benefits of the relationship before anything else. 

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