issue with trying to learn Gurmukhi PLEASE PLEASE HELP ME my humble benti

[jaswindersingh55 8]

waheguru ji ka Khalsa waheguru ji ki fathe

iv been trying extremely hard to try to learn Gurmukhi as I have some time while I'm still of work but im struggling really bad because im getting confused so please someone please please please help me and guide me as I have no one to ask 

Why are the  onkar vowels which occur at the end of a word sometimes sound silent when gurbani is read. For example:' ; ਨਾਮੁ is spelt naamu but pronounced naam and ਜਪੁ is spelt japu but pronounced Jap?  and  ਸਤਿ is spelt sati but pronounced 'sat

and bilaval im reading it bilavalu

what have I done wrong because I feel like im prouncing it right but im doing it wrong  

when I was learning I though I was doing very well but when this came up it just broke my confidence it has made me very sad an I feel like I wont be able to read path ever in my life now

so please someone do kirpa and explain and help me get my confidence back that one day I will be able to read path in Gurmukhi 

[jaswindersingh55 8]

 and the Shari is confusing me ਸਤਿ is spelt sati but pronounced 'sat

its only these two im reading everting else fine some please help 

 

[Shaheed4life 604]

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa Vaheguru ji ki fateh 

Veerji these are some videos I found.The first is explaining Gurmukhi and its origin.

Second is on pronunciation.

Hope it helps, if I find more I will send. 

Bhul Chuk Maf

[Shaheed4life 604]

http://mylanguages.org/punjabi_alphabet.php

This is another website I found that helps with the letters of Gurmukhi.

[Guest Singh]

20 hours ago, jaswindersingh55 said:

  ਸਤਿ is spelt sati but pronounced 'sat

 

Try say aloud Sat in 2 ways

1 - Where T sound is produced by tongue touching top of mouth - it would be ਸਤ

2 - Where T sound is produced by tongue touching back of front teeth - this would be ਸਤਿ 

Second T is a lighter T hence it looks like is spent Sati

This person has some really good videos

https://www.youtube.com/user/kaurDolly02/videos

I'd recommend listening to paath with a gutka/pothi or online paath and read along - it will really help hearing it and seeing it at same time. Read along and pay attention how tongue moves to produce correct pronunciation. 

This is actual read-along audio santhiya too

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audio.php?q=f&f=%2FGurbani_Ucharan%2FBhai_Gursharan_Singh_(Damdami_Taksal)

[Koi 491]

They're not silent, just very very subtle. 

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audio.php?q=f&f=%2FGurbani_Ucharan%2FBhindran_Taksal_Santhya

[Not2Cool2Argue 572]

On 11/3/2020 at 6:45 PM, jaswindersingh55 said:

waheguru ji ka Khalsa waheguru ji ki fathe

iv been trying extremely hard to try to learn Gurmukhi as I have some time while I'm still of work but im struggling really bad because im getting confused so please someone please please please help me and guide me as I have no one to ask 

Why are the  onkar vowels which occur at the end of a word sometimes sound silent when gurbani is read. For example:' ; ਨਾਮੁ is spelt naamu but pronounced naam and ਜਪੁ is spelt japu but pronounced Jap?  and  ਸਤਿ is spelt sati but pronounced 'sat

and bilaval im reading it bilavalu

what have I done wrong because I feel like im prouncing it right but im doing it wrong  

when I was learning I though I was doing very well but when this came up it just broke my confidence it has made me very sad an I feel like I wont be able to read path ever in my life now

so please someone do kirpa and explain and help me get my confidence back that one day I will be able to read path in Gurmukhi 

Its due to grammer. Its called vyakaran in gurmukhi. The silent sihaari and aunkard tell is if the object is possessive or plural. Gurmatbibek.com has some articles on this. 

However taksaal believes you should pronounce every thing. So you would say naaaamuh. Stretch out the first vowel so when u pronounce the second vowel shorten it so it doesnt change the meaning. Like sssssssti. This is called lagu and deerag. 

They teach this in santhiya. Take santhoya classes.

[Dsinghd 218]

Take Santhiya lessons.

Taksal pronounce it Sabad others Shabad. Personally i use the SH in places. What matters  is the message.

I’ve read Guru Granth Sahib Jee several time and still learning. It takes a lot of practice

[MisterrSingh 4,033]

You can only really overcome these grammatical issues by listening to Gurbani pronunciations. On paper, like other languages, the rules seem weird, but hearing the correct pronunciation from an expert is the only thing that helps. Start young; makes it easier.

[ipledgeblue 281]

On 11/4/2020 at 2:45 AM, jaswindersingh55 said:

waheguru ji ka Khalsa waheguru ji ki fathe

iv been trying extremely hard to try to learn Gurmukhi as I have some time while I'm still of work but im struggling really bad because im getting confused so please someone please please please help me and guide me as I have no one to ask 

Why are the  onkar vowels which occur at the end of a word sometimes sound silent when gurbani is read. For example:' ; ਨਾਮੁ is spelt naamu but pronounced naam and ਜਪੁ is spelt japu but pronounced Jap?  and  ਸਤਿ is spelt sati but pronounced 'sat

and bilaval im reading it bilavalu

they are not silent, it's probably better that you are pronouncing them.

Check santhiya classes online and you will see that they are pronounced., and the way they are pronounced.

[Guest guest]

I took santhia classes and they told me not to pronounce these.  A granthi also told me not to pronounce them.  When I listen to Gurbani online or on TV, they don't pronounce them either.  This is wrong, because by not pronouncing them you are sometimes changing the meaning of the saloks.

[ipledgeblue 281]

On 11/23/2020 at 9:55 PM, Guest guest said:

I took santhia classes and they told me not to pronounce these.  A granthi also told me not to pronounce them.  When I listen to Gurbani online or on TV, they don't pronounce them either.  This is wrong, because by not pronouncing them you are sometimes changing the meaning of the saloks.

that is strange, because these can be pronounced lightly without changing the meanings. let me see if I can find a video where this is pronounced.

like some paat I listen to when the paati is saying: 

ੴ ਸਤਿ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ
EK ONG KAR SAT GUR PRASAD

 they are saying prasad(i), like pronouncing the sihari.

The sihari is quite light compared to bihari, so not everyone will notice.

Because, remember, the way we speak punjabi is different from British English. Like for standard english you try and say the words as-is. But in punjabi we have accents, and the sihari and aunkar for words also kind of adds an accent.

Like if someone has the name Deepinder or Bhupinder, some people especially outside punjab may right their names as Deepindra or Bhupindra. And I don't think this is as strong as using a kanna, it's just a little bit of desi accent in the end!

[Guest guest]

On 11/25/2020 at 11:31 AM, ipledgeblue said:

Because, remember, the way we speak punjabi is different from British English. Like for standard english you try and say the words as-is. But in punjabi we have accents, and the sihari and aunkar for words also kind of adds an accent.

Like if someone has the name Deepinder or Bhupinder, some people especially outside punjab may right their names as Deepindra or Bhupindra. And I don't think this is as strong as using a kanna, it's just a little bit of desi accent in the end!

Deepindra or Bhupindra are the classical spellings of the name.  

The word Bhakt and Bhakti are two different words.  Bhakti is spelt with a siharee and you can hear it clearly.  If you skip that siharee than you are saying Bhakt.

[ipledgeblue 281]

On 11/29/2020 at 9:50 PM, Guest guest said:

 Bhakti is spelt with a siharee and you can hear it clearly.  If you skip that siharee than you are saying Bhakt.

Nope,

ਭਗਤੀ bhakti/bhagti/bhagtee is spelt with a bihari, that is why you hear it clearly.

 

with a siharee it becomes

ਭਗਤਿ bhagat(i)/ bhakt(i)

there will still be some change in pronouncing the akhar at the end, than without the siharee.

With the siharee you don't hear it clearly within the context you are talking about.

[Guest guest]

On 12/1/2020 at 9:30 AM, ipledgeblue said:

Nope,

ਭਗਤੀ bhakti/bhagti/bhagtee is spelt with a bihari, that is why you hear it clearly.

 

with a siharee it becomes

ਭਗਤਿ bhagat(i)/ bhakt(i)

there will still be some change in pronouncing the akhar at the end, than without the siharee.

With the siharee you don't hear it clearly within the context you are talking about.

so why is the siharee clearly pronounced in 'SatiNaam'?

also- Praanpati in Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Bani- the siharee should be pronounced.  The word is Pati not Pat.