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Are Sikhs addicted to appeasing "others" at their own cost


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On 6/14/2021 at 12:57 PM, Big_Tera said:

Parchaar is not about "converting" pursue. Its about rasing awareness of the Gurus message. If people choose to convert thats completley up to them.  But we should always be ready to raise awarness about Sikhi which can be done alongside sikh events. In Sikhi we dont have this notion that somone can only be saved through Sikh religion. 

if you're thinking about 'raising awareness' you're basically thinking about other people.  this is wrong.  a sikh only thinks about (serves) God, and shouldn't care what society etc thinks or how they react "sir deejai kaan na kejai"

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'Groomed' is a word you should be familiar with. 

There is a strong element of what used to be called chaaploosian (in Panjabi) towards outsiders amongst our lot (or as they used to say in east London - ar5elicking.) I think it stems from lack of tru

It's because at our political apex we have retards who don't even have a basic understanding of economics (or probably just don't care as long as they and their cronies are okay); who are incapable of

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On 6/13/2021 at 12:46 AM, intrigued said:

I agree with this. My point above was that seva shouldn't be done in the intent to convert

the two are not mutually exclusive

this is not a way a sikh should think.  its clear when people don't even read Gurbani, because then they make erraneous statements like this

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older generations did sell out sikhi by trying to fill the ideology/heads of youth/sikhs with concepts meant to appease others, i.e. God is one, in sikhi women are equal, sikhs serve humanity.  these are all western concepts that were emphasised to win points with westerners.  ultimately this damaged our panth.  saying God is one meant sikhs felt no loyalty to their own religion, saying women are equal meant they went off to act like h*es and get drunk like the worst of men, saying sikhs serve humanity basically made youth atheists  

even now you see 'amrtidharis' collecting government medals or throwing saropas around politicians- shame.  

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18 hours ago, intrigued said:

I think that Sikh orgs should first help Sikhs in need and then help others

Not sure why I was downvoted for saying Sikhs should help Sikhs. Whoever downvoted please explain ji

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14 hours ago, Guest guest said:

the two are not mutually exclusive

this is not a way a sikh should think.  its clear when people don't even read Gurbani, because then they make erraneous statements like this

My point was that Sikhs should not do seva (selfless service) with the intent to convert others into Sikhi. Raising awareness, and conversion being a byproduct is a different story.

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14 hours ago, Guest guest said:

older generations did sell out sikhi by trying to fill the ideology/heads of youth/sikhs with concepts meant to appease others, i.e. God is one, in sikhi women are equal, sikhs serve humanity.  these are all western concepts that were emphasised to win points with westerners.  ultimately this damaged our panth.  saying God is one meant sikhs felt no loyalty to their own religion, saying women are equal meant they went off to act like h*es and get drunk like the worst of men, saying sikhs serve humanity basically made youth atheists  

even now you see 'amrtidharis' collecting government medals or throwing saropas around politicians- shame.  

I agree with this. In our attempt to assimilate with other cultures, Sikhs have adapted Sikhi to fit western concepts instead of those concepts being adapted to fit Sikhi

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15 hours ago, Guest guest said:

older generations did sell out sikhi by trying to fill the ideology/heads of youth/sikhs with concepts meant to appease others, i.e. God is one, in sikhi women are equal, sikhs serve humanity.  these are all western concepts that were emphasised to win points with westerners.  ultimately this damaged our panth.  saying God is one meant sikhs felt no loyalty to their own religion, saying women are equal meant they went off to act like h*es and get drunk like the worst of men, saying sikhs serve humanity basically made youth atheists  

even now you see 'amrtidharis' collecting government medals or throwing saropas around politicians- shame.  

 

57 minutes ago, intrigued said:

I agree with this. In our attempt to assimilate with other cultures, Sikhs have adapted Sikhi to fit western concepts instead of those concepts being adapted to fit Sikhi

I think it was the Singh Sabha lehar that started this, but not intentionally, they thought they were doing what was best at the time (under the influence of colonial powers), and didn't really get the long-term implications. 

 

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11 hours ago, proactive said:

The Singh Sabha did not come about in a vacuum. The other two religions of Punjab also attempted to present their beliefs in the light of modern research and in language that the rulers would understand. The Singh Sabha also faced the real possibility that Sikhi would be subsumed into Hinduism. 

I'm not disputing that, but that doesn't change the fact that trying to frame Sikhi with dualistic, western, protestant christian thought of the time (which led to the creation of 'Sikhism') has had a negative legacy on us, and that we have a lot to learn about framing debates with our own conceptual frameworks. In the meanwhile, most Sikhs still don't even realise what happened and its implications. That's why we have Kala Afghanas, missionaries etc. etc. who are just carrying on that train of thought. That's what it looks like to me anyway. 

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On 6/22/2021 at 12:08 PM, intrigued said:

Not sure why I was downvoted for saying Sikhs should help Sikhs. Whoever downvoted please explain ji

think about Bhai Kanhaiya

its not right to be partial to helping sikhs first.  if someone needs food/clothing/medicine you should just help them and not look at who/what they are, even if they are some 'enemy' group

sikhs serve God by reflecting His qualities, this is how bhagats honour Him.  so just like God helps both good and bad people, people who respect him and atheists etc, same way sikh should look at and help people (and in that way venerate God).  this is mentioned in Gurbani- using metaphor of sunlight and wind (they benefit on all people- good and bad)

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10 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

I'm not disputing that, but that doesn't change the fact that trying to frame Sikhi with dualistic, western, protestant christian thought of the time (which led to the creation of 'Sikhism') has had a negative legacy on us, and that we have a lot to learn about framing debates with our own conceptual frameworks. In the meanwhile, most Sikhs still don't even realise what happened and its implications. That's why we have Kala Afghanas, missionaries etc. etc. who are just carrying on that train of thought. That's what it looks like to me anyway. 

its more socialism/ post-marxism these days.  protestant influence waned because even westerners lost interest in that

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20 hours ago, proactive said:

The Singh Sabha did not come about in a vacuum. The other two religions of Punjab also attempted to present their beliefs in the light of modern research and in language that the rulers would understand. The Singh Sabha also faced the real possibility that Sikhi would be subsumed into Hinduism. 

not real possibility, just paranoia/hysteria.  it wasn't subsumed for 200 years before that, why was it suddenly going to be subsumed at that point?

muslims didn't try and westernise their culture from what i can tell, nor did the hindus.  I don't hear those kind of western statements from muslims or hindus from punjab.

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On 6/25/2021 at 6:32 PM, Guest guest said:

think about Bhai Kanhaiya

its not right to be partial to helping sikhs first.  if someone needs food/clothing/medicine you should just help them and not look at who/what they are, even if they are some 'enemy' group

sikhs serve God by reflecting His qualities, this is how bhagats honour Him.  so just like God helps both good and bad people, people who respect him and atheists etc, same way sikh should look at and help people (and in that way venerate God).  this is mentioned in Gurbani- using metaphor of sunlight and wind (they benefit on all people- good and bad)

This is a good explanation. I guess my point was more aimed at the idea of orgs identifying as Sikh based but refusing to help those of their religion. Nonetheless, i see your point as well and i think that orgs have to find a balance between the two

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2 hours ago, intrigued said:

This is a good explanation. I guess my point was more aimed at the idea of orgs identifying as Sikh based but refusing to help those of their religion. Nonetheless, i see your point as well and i think that orgs have to find a balance between the two

Amen bro. We have to be careful wether it's Daan or Daswand, it's used well, and we should always do both. 

A lot of charities don't have the best efficiency of turning your money into positive impact. 

So we should do it directly, and when donating be really discerning. 

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On 6/25/2021 at 11:32 PM, Guest guest said:

think about Bhai Kanhaiya

its not right to be partial to helping sikhs first.  if someone needs food/clothing/medicine you should just help them and not look at who/what they are, even if they are some 'enemy' group

sikhs serve God by reflecting His qualities, this is how bhagats honour Him.  so just like God helps both good and bad people, people who respect him and atheists etc, same way sikh should look at and help people (and in that way venerate God).  this is mentioned in Gurbani- using metaphor of sunlight and wind (they benefit on all people- good and bad)

All well in theory, but what about this:

 

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