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Namaaz not allowed in Gurdwara


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1 hour ago, dallysingh101 said:

Singh, I think you're completely missing the important bit about these people being pretty much allowed to get away with it because of english complicity via their media, police and social services.   

That's not because of some calculated or devilish plan to see girls ruined. It's because they're 5hit scared of being labelled as racists coupled with elements of being incompetent. There's a huge difference between the likes of Saville, bent coppers with a predilection for girls, etc., and some meek, paunchy jobsworth sitting behind a desk terrified to do his job because of a threat to "communal relations". You rarely, if ever, make these distinctions, preferring to throw them all into the "white racist" category. It's way more nuanced than that.

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I don't see the point of usIng the gurdwara for prayers  Muslims can lay down their mats and pray anywhere: on the street, in the park, in a lounge. But to do this, is like capitulating  

I don’t think Bhagat Puran Singh ever got a Nobel prize, despite doing better sewa than Mother Theresa without any expectation of people converting. He actually gave his highest award back to the Indi

This is the undoing of over 500 years of history, we had always kept up our guard against these people and even though we might not have known on what basis their enmity towards us lay, we knew that b

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24 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

What if they are too young to be able to use discernment? Or not the brightest spark? We (the panth) still end up being associated with their actions.  

We can’t save everyone, some people will just be lost. 

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On 11/29/2021 at 3:35 PM, MisterrSingh said:

That's not because of some calculated or devilish plan to see girls ruined. It's because they're 5hit scared of being labelled as racists coupled with elements of being incompetent.

You are completely wrong. It is some calculated, devilish plan These people are not remotely scared to be racist, they just don't like getting caught at it. This sh1ts been going on from way before you were born. There wasn't pc stuff like that back then, the authorities still turned a blind eye, because these things were normal in their own culture back then, plus they liked using proxies to attack the panth. 

Wake up bro, we are getting tagged teamed by them.

I think you've got a soft spot for wasps. Don't open us up to even more than what they've done already because of it.  The way you constantly defend them makes me think that you're secretly having a relationship with one (or did have in the past).   

 

On 11/29/2021 at 3:58 PM, Jacfsing2 said:

We can’t save everyone, some people will just be lost. 

I agree, but that doesn't excuse inaction on our panth's part.  That's just makes what could be turned into a minor issue, into a major one like it is now. 

It's about minimising losses, and sending a strong message to outsiders as a deterrent.  

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1 hour ago, dallysingh101 said:

I think you've got a soft spot for wasps. Don't open us up to even more than what they've done already because of it.  The way you constantly defend them makes me think that you're secretly having a relationship with one (or did have in the past).   

Her name was Charlotte. 😅😁

Aside from that, bro, with genuine respect, I think the reality is somewhere between the middle of both our perspectives, but obviously a little closer to my end of the spectrum. 👌

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On 11/29/2021 at 6:09 PM, MisterrSingh said:

Her name was Charlotte. 😅😁

 

Is that what he was calling himself when he dressed up? lol!!!

 

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Aside from that, bro, with genuine respect, I think the reality is somewhere between the middle of both our perspectives, but obviously a little closer to my end of the spectrum. 👌

You got to listen to experience as well dude. People have been dealing with this from before most forum users were born. They know stuff.  

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15 hours ago, Premi5 said:

@dallysingh101 I know you are a fan of Harjap Bhangal, what do you think of this retweet ?

I'm gathering now, any panchoda with any sort of public persona, goes along with this stuff. Guaranteed they'll be retweeting this shyte. 

I'm not a fan of Harjap btw, he just makes me laugh with his sarcasm sometimes. Plus I heard pendus burnt down his Southall office. I think Harjap sold out - it's saying a lot that the Home Office want him to vet potential immigrants. I don't know if anyone can be a solicitor and not be a devious, conniving liar. I think it's required for the role? 

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On 11/26/2021 at 6:40 AM, proactive said:

I am writing about Ravi Singh of Khalsa Aid, He has given a call on twitter for more Gurdwaras to offer themselves for holding Namaz. The other Ravi Ranjan Singh appears to either a Hindu convert to Sikhi or someone who comes from a mixed Hindu Sikh family. I think he is  a Bihari and was a litigant in the Ram Mandir case. He is also leading an organisation called the Jhatka committee aimed at fighting the dominance of Halal meat in India and promoting Jhatka in its place. So he is pretty shady in some aspects but positive in others. 

Now compare the two Ravis, someone born a Sikh and who gives out many statements about the way Sikhs have been treated by India and who is being projected as the greatest Sikh of the 21st century and who should be awarded the Nobel prize and the other is someone possibly born a Hindu, associated with the Hindu Mahasabha and thus probably someone who believes that Sikhs are Hindus. 

image.jpeg.62aa34d875a40855055ca1248953ba0e.jpeg   image.jpeg.7ec804098e02e25632f49cfa58386711.jpeg

 

Now which one would you think would be someone who would be defending the Rehat Maryada? Ravi Singh of Khalsa Aid or Ravi Ranjan Singh of Hindu Mahasabha?

The guess on face value and the true answer shows just what is wrong in our people at the moment. Ravi Singh of Khalsa Aid is quite happy to go against the Rehat Maryada and allow Namaz in our Gurdwaras, rather than just keep quiet when the Gurdwara Pardhan faced flak for his initial announcement offering the Gurdwara for Namaz, Ravi Singh KA is actually encouraging Gurdwaras to go against the Rehat Maryada! He may have a Khula Dharha but I doubt he has even read the Rehat Maryana or even has much knowledge of Gurbani, his charity is just a business he has set up to advance his liberal agenda. 

 

 

 

On 11/26/2021 at 6:01 PM, Jacfsing2 said:

So they are both bad in your opinion?

 

On 11/26/2021 at 6:30 PM, proactive said:

No, I would say that Ravi Singh KA is a hundred times worse than the Hindu Mahasabha guy because the biggest danger is always from traitor within. The one who has been gradually wearing away the shield of appropriate suspicion that our Panth has had towards towards the Muslims. That appropriate suspicion which saved generations of our people from becoming victims of the Muslims. One can just imagine if the Sikhs of previous generation had the same slavish attitude that Ravi Singh KA has to the Muslims what the results of that would have been. The 1947 generation would have trusted the Muslim league and we would be in a worst situation than we are in now. All of Punjab east and west would have been in Pakistan and the Muslims through demographics would have reduced us to a small minority and all our lands would have been confiscated and our condition would have been worse than the Christians in Pakistan. Ravi Singh KA with his liberalism has made us open to the fake solidarity that Muslims show us in order to advance their own religion at the cost of ours. This is Ravi Singh KA's greatest crime, he is like the traitor who opens the gates of a besieged city. 

As for Ravi Ranjan Singh, he is a threat but a smart community would use him rather than be used by him. He is promoting Jhatka and opposing Halal. This is exactly the position that all Sikhs should support but I bet Ravi Singh KA is probably against that as well because he is essentially a dhimmi. The total opposite of the Khalsa that Guru Gobind Singh envisioned. 

I mean Ravi Ranjan Singh is campaigning for traditions that made the khalsa strong and warrior like, practises which neo sikh committee buffoons got rid off when they took over Akali Bunga Takht

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Experts Say Sikh Leadership Must Oppose Atrocities Against Muslims | NewsClick

 

Punjab civil society and organisations are very outspoken against the persecution of Muslims, but the Sikh political and religious leaders can do much more.
 
08 Dec 2021
 

Recently, a gurudwara association in Gurugram, Haryana, opened its doors to Muslims who had bands of Hindu groups harassing them and protesting their offering namaz even at designated spaces. This gesture of brotherhood was welcomed from far and wide, yet it also raised some questions for the Sikh religious and political leadership. 

Many Sikh historians feel the marginalisation of Muslims across north India since the Modi government came to power should not be allowed to pass unchallenged. They say the leadership of a community labelled a “protector” should break its silence on atrocities against any minority community. They also say that while Punjabi civil society has kept raising its voice against the targeting of Muslims by Hindu fundamentalists, it is time community leaders also raise their voice for Muslims and against their mistreatment.

“This [mistreatment of Muslims] should not be tolerated; they are citizens of India,” says Dr Joginder Singh, head of the Sikh History and Research Center, Khalsa College Amritsar. “It is not just about Muslims. Sikhism teaches us to fight injustice and this struggle is part of our history. Our gurus sacrificed their lives and families for justice,” he adds. According to the message of Guru Nanak Dev, if there is injustice, Sikhs must raise their voice against it. “The exact words are, ‘Nanak naam chardi kala tere bhane sarbat da bhala—which means ‘blessings and peace for everyone’,” says Joginder Singh. 

In August 2019, BJP leaders started making offensive remarks about Kashmiri women in public after the abrogation of Article 370 of the Constitution in Jammu and Kashmir. Soon after, Giani Harpreet Singh, the Jathedar or head of the Akal Takht, the top decision-making body of the Sikhs, issued a powerful condemnatory statement. He said, “Kashmiri women are part of our society. It is our religious duty to defend their honour. Sikhs should protect their honour for the sake of duty and history.” The statement of the Akal Takht had such a strong impact that no BJP leader uttered a single word about Kashmiri women after it.

The holy book of the Sikhs, the Guru Granth Sahib, has many hymns and shabads such as ‘Shora so pehchaniy joh lade deen ke het—he alone is brave who fights for the underprivileged/helpless.’ Such lines are crystal clear about the duty of Sikhs toward others. It is another reason why historians feel the religious and socio-political heads of the Sikh community must urgently speak out for Muslims anywhere in the country. “I think the influence of the Jathedar of the Akal Takht is very crucial and his intervention necessary. But unfortunately, this institution has been marginalised because of the political functioning of the Akali Dal and the Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee,” feels Dr Joginder Singh. “Yet, if Jathedar Gyani Harjeet Singh acts independently in this regard, it could bring some relief for the Muslim community, which would be most welcome and desirable,” he adds.

Experts also point out that Punjabi civil society and groups have regularly opposed the targeting of Muslims by Hindu fundamentalists. “It is not that the Sikhs are not speaking on this issue [of ill-treatment of Muslims],” says Harjeshwer Pal Singh, professor of history at the Guru Govind Singh College, Chandigarh. He adds, “Civil society in Punjab is very vocal about it.” He points out that Punjabis participated in the anti-Citizenship Amendment Act (CAA) protests in Delhi and that by and large, the Punjabi Sikh community has stood with Muslims. “But I feel the Sikh religious institutions should speak out for their fellow minority too. Still, we cannot call it a failure of the Sikh community on this issue,” he says.

There are still expectations that the Sikh political and religious leaders would also break their silence, just like individuals and civil society have. The view is that the Sikhs must oppose the creation of a situation that they had to confront during the eighties due to the same people and police

Another perception about Sikhs is that they are silent because of past atrocities by Mughals and execution of Sikh gurus in particular. It is a perception avidly propagated by the Hindu right-wing forces. However, experts demolish this argument with solid historical references. “The atrocities of the Mughals against the Sikhs are not an issue at all,” argues Sarabjinder Singh, Director, Jagatpur Baba Center for Interfaith Harmony, Patiala. “In Sikh history, two Muslim brothers, Gani Khan and Nabi Khan helped Guru Govind Singh ji escape from the siege of the Mughals in Machiwara, Punjab. Sikhism is always against cruel, merciless regimes. Then, Mughals were the ‘zalim’ [oppressor]. If any other community was doing the same things, the guru surely would have fought them.”

There are a number of historical events wherein the Muslims fought for the Sikhs, even sacrificing their lives. After Guru Teg Bahadur was martyred along with Bhai Sati Das, Bhai Mati Das, and Bhai Dayala Das at Delhi’s Chandni Chowk, Abdulla Khawaja, keeper of the jail at Chandni Chowk Kotwali in Delhi revolted against the Mughals. He was the first person to reach Anandpur Sahib with information about the executions.

Sikh gurus were executed, but other gurus did not cease interacting with Muslims and continued business with Mughal rulers. This did not change in the 18th century, when the Sikh rulers were in power. For example, most Sikh rulers in the Malwa region issued coins in the name of the Afghan king Ahmad Shah Abdali. “It is a wrong notion that there was a consistent conflict between the Sikhs and Muslims,” says Dr Joginder Singh. “You can also take the example of Pir Buddhu Shah. He fought on behalf of Guru Govind Singh ji. So, there are number of instances in the Sikh History where Muslims fought for Sikhs.”

Even the composition of the Khalsa army led by Banda Bahadur Singh in the 18th century was substantially Muslim. “My perception is that the Sikh leadership missed a chance when the special clause of the Constitution for Kashmiris was withdrawn by this government,” feels Dr Joginder Singh. “Sikh leaders should have sent a message to the minority community. They think they have a good reputation with Delhi, so they are safe, but nobody is safe.” 

“Look at how the government and media labelled the farmers protesting against the three farm laws as Khalistani and separatist,” he concludes.

The author is a freelance investigative journalist. The views are personal.

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4 hours ago, Premi5 said:

Experts Say Sikh Leadership Must Oppose Atrocities Against Muslims | NewsClick

 

Punjab civil society and organisations are very outspoken against the persecution of Muslims, but the Sikh political and religious leaders can do much more.
 
08 Dec 2021
 

Recently, a gurudwara association in Gurugram, Haryana, opened its doors to Muslims who had bands of Hindu groups harassing them and protesting their offering namaz even at designated spaces. This gesture of brotherhood was welcomed from far and wide, yet it also raised some questions for the Sikh religious and political leadership. 

Many Sikh historians feel the marginalisation of Muslims across north India since the Modi government came to power should not be allowed to pass unchallenged. They say the leadership of a community labelled a “protector” should break its silence on atrocities against any minority community. They also say that while Punjabi civil society has kept raising its voice against the targeting of Muslims by Hindu fundamentalists, it is time community leaders also raise their voice for Muslims and against their mistreatment.

“This [mistreatment of Muslims] should not be tolerated; they are citizens of India,” says Dr Joginder Singh, head of the Sikh History and Research Center, Khalsa College Amritsar. “It is not just about Muslims. Sikhism teaches us to fight injustice and this struggle is part of our history. Our gurus sacrificed their lives and families for justice,” he adds. According to the message of Guru Nanak Dev, if there is injustice, Sikhs must raise their voice against it. “The exact words are, ‘Nanak naam chardi kala tere bhane sarbat da bhala—which means ‘blessings and peace for everyone’,” says Joginder Singh. 

In August 2019, BJP leaders started making offensive remarks about Kashmiri women in public after the abrogation of Article 370 of the Constitution in Jammu and Kashmir. Soon after, Giani Harpreet Singh, the Jathedar or head of the Akal Takht, the top decision-making body of the Sikhs, issued a powerful condemnatory statement. He said, “Kashmiri women are part of our society. It is our religious duty to defend their honour. Sikhs should protect their honour for the sake of duty and history.” The statement of the Akal Takht had such a strong impact that no BJP leader uttered a single word about Kashmiri women after it.

The holy book of the Sikhs, the Guru Granth Sahib, has many hymns and shabads such as ‘Shora so pehchaniy joh lade deen ke het—he alone is brave who fights for the underprivileged/helpless.’ Such lines are crystal clear about the duty of Sikhs toward others. It is another reason why historians feel the religious and socio-political heads of the Sikh community must urgently speak out for Muslims anywhere in the country. “I think the influence of the Jathedar of the Akal Takht is very crucial and his intervention necessary. But unfortunately, this institution has been marginalised because of the political functioning of the Akali Dal and the Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee,” feels Dr Joginder Singh. “Yet, if Jathedar Gyani Harjeet Singh acts independently in this regard, it could bring some relief for the Muslim community, which would be most welcome and desirable,” he adds.

Experts also point out that Punjabi civil society and groups have regularly opposed the targeting of Muslims by Hindu fundamentalists. “It is not that the Sikhs are not speaking on this issue [of ill-treatment of Muslims],” says Harjeshwer Pal Singh, professor of history at the Guru Govind Singh College, Chandigarh. He adds, “Civil society in Punjab is very vocal about it.” He points out that Punjabis participated in the anti-Citizenship Amendment Act (CAA) protests in Delhi and that by and large, the Punjabi Sikh community has stood with Muslims. “But I feel the Sikh religious institutions should speak out for their fellow minority too. Still, we cannot call it a failure of the Sikh community on this issue,” he says.

There are still expectations that the Sikh political and religious leaders would also break their silence, just like individuals and civil society have. The view is that the Sikhs must oppose the creation of a situation that they had to confront during the eighties due to the same people and police

Another perception about Sikhs is that they are silent because of past atrocities by Mughals and execution of Sikh gurus in particular. It is a perception avidly propagated by the Hindu right-wing forces. However, experts demolish this argument with solid historical references. “The atrocities of the Mughals against the Sikhs are not an issue at all,” argues Sarabjinder Singh, Director, Jagatpur Baba Center for Interfaith Harmony, Patiala. “In Sikh history, two Muslim brothers, Gani Khan and Nabi Khan helped Guru Govind Singh ji escape from the siege of the Mughals in Machiwara, Punjab. Sikhism is always against cruel, merciless regimes. Then, Mughals were the ‘zalim’ [oppressor]. If any other community was doing the same things, the guru surely would have fought them.”

There are a number of historical events wherein the Muslims fought for the Sikhs, even sacrificing their lives. After Guru Teg Bahadur was martyred along with Bhai Sati Das, Bhai Mati Das, and Bhai Dayala Das at Delhi’s Chandni Chowk, Abdulla Khawaja, keeper of the jail at Chandni Chowk Kotwali in Delhi revolted against the Mughals. He was the first person to reach Anandpur Sahib with information about the executions.

Sikh gurus were executed, but other gurus did not cease interacting with Muslims and continued business with Mughal rulers. This did not change in the 18th century, when the Sikh rulers were in power. For example, most Sikh rulers in the Malwa region issued coins in the name of the Afghan king Ahmad Shah Abdali. “It is a wrong notion that there was a consistent conflict between the Sikhs and Muslims,” says Dr Joginder Singh. “You can also take the example of Pir Buddhu Shah. He fought on behalf of Guru Govind Singh ji. So, there are number of instances in the Sikh History where Muslims fought for Sikhs.”

Even the composition of the Khalsa army led by Banda Bahadur Singh in the 18th century was substantially Muslim. “My perception is that the Sikh leadership missed a chance when the special clause of the Constitution for Kashmiris was withdrawn by this government,” feels Dr Joginder Singh. “Sikh leaders should have sent a message to the minority community. They think they have a good reputation with Delhi, so they are safe, but nobody is safe.” 

“Look at how the government and media labelled the farmers protesting against the three farm laws as Khalistani and separatist,” he concludes.

The author is a freelance investigative journalist. The views are personal.

That's half of it.  

Some things shouldn't be allowed to happen to anybody. Look at the fake jews in the holocaust. 

A lot of them were ignorant nobodies, and even the vile ones hitler was after deserved a better end, because everybody, everything, deserves a certain dignity, even when they're horribly wrong. 

I think the "certain things" won't be done to "anybody", sort of alleviates the fact that the majority of islam is at war on Sikhi. I mean. If we base it on their behavior as a macro group, they pretty much have anything and everything coming, we're just bigger than that. 

In truly extreme cases of necessitated by Dharam and Daya, help anyone, and if they're a good muslim? Help them for sure. 

You know. I heard there's a few good cops in theory. They lose that status as soon as they join the blue line and remain silent while their comrades do the worst. I think the same could be said of muslims. Even if you meet a good one, they speaking out for Sikhi? 

I have some muslim friends. One is a convert and really a stellar muslim. She's already outgrowing it though, and a lot of her goodness she brought with her. Even she, I don't hear speaking against us getting murdered, and she's the best muslim I know. 

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