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WJKK WJKF 

Hello everyone, 

I have been in a relationship with this guy for 6 years. I am now 23 years old and thinking of marriage. I don’t believe in caste and neither does he. My family come from a Jatt background and his family are chamar. My family do strongly believe in caste, but I was not brought up around it. I didn’t even know about the caste system or different castes until 3 years into my relationship with my boyfriend. He doesn’t have Singh in his name, but I always thought this was because he isn’t apart of the Khalsa. 
 

When we first met, he told me he was a Sikh and that was enough for me. I am a Sikh too and have always wanted a Sikh life partner. 
 

3 years into the relationship I learnt about his caste. Even then, I still believed he was a Sikh, so it meant no difference to me. I told my mum about our relationship this year and she asked about his caste. I told her he is a chamar and she told me how they have a different Gurdwara and believe in the Guru Ravidass. 
 

I spoke to my boyfriend about this and he told me his family go to a gurdwara that believes in Guru Ravidass and Guru Nanak Dev Ji. They read out of the Guru Granth Sahib Ji and they perform the anand karaj as a wedding ceremony. 
 

I have been looking more into what he believes and I’m very confused as to whether he is a Sikh or not. I was hoping someone may know more about this topic and can advise me whether we would be able to do anand karaj in the gurdwara? 

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On 12/7/2021 at 12:01 PM, Anon22 said:

WJKK WJKF 

Hello everyone, 

I have been in a relationship with this guy for 6 years. I am now 23 years old and thinking of marriage. I don’t believe in caste and neither does he. My family come from a Jatt background and his family are chamar. My family do strongly believe in caste, but I was not brought up around it. I didn’t even know about the caste system or different castes until 3 years into my relationship with my boyfriend. He doesn’t have Singh in his name, but I always thought this was because he isn’t apart of the Khalsa. 
 

When we first met, he told me he was a Sikh and that was enough for me. I am a Sikh too and have always wanted a Sikh life partner. 
 

3 years into the relationship I learnt about his caste. Even then, I still believed he was a Sikh, so it meant no difference to me. I told my mum about our relationship this year and she asked about his caste. I told her he is a chamar and she told me how they have a different Gurdwara and believe in the Guru Ravidass. 
 

I spoke to my boyfriend about this and he told me his family go to a gurdwara that believes in Guru Ravidass and Guru Nanak Dev Ji. They read out of the Guru Granth Sahib Ji and they perform the anand karaj as a wedding ceremony. 
 

I have been looking more into what he believes and I’m very confused as to whether he is a Sikh or not. I was hoping someone may know more about this topic and can advise me whether we would be able to do anand karaj in the gurdwara? 

You have good questions.

Your mom is right. Before due to discrimination, chamaar people got their own gurdwara. They were called Ravidaasiye or Ramgariye. Because these two respected personalities were of the same chamber caste. They just looked up to Bhagat Ravidaas ji and the 17th century Sikh Jassa singh raamgariya. All was good.

However a few years back maybe 2010s. A movement started that wanted to separate Sikh people from chamaar background into separate religion. This was the Ravidaasiye movement. They said we will have separate religion, Bhagat Ravidaas will be our Guru now. Some only believe in Guru Ravidaas. Also some even went so far, as to take all of Bhagat ravidaas jis bani and formed into their grants. They removed the rest of gurbani. That is very very sad for them. To have hatred towards bani based on the fact that a similar caste person as them didn't write it? What could be more castist or unfortunate? gurdwara. They also made a different Nishaan sahib and different greeting than Fateh.

 

There was a schism or separation among the Ravidaasiye gurudwaras. Some followed this new movement and some said no we are Sikhs of Guru granth sahib, we won't follow this nonsense. 

It seems as if your partner is a mixed bag of both. He probably doesn't know what to believe. And his relatives will be worse. Some staunchly on one side and some on the other. Some will also be castist. Taking out their hate of Jatts and how they were treated on you. Also will you henceforth be going to ravidaasiye gurdwara? Will your husband or his family be comfortable visiting the gurdwara you do? What about your parents? Will they be comfortable going and meeting his family and that gurdwara?

I know I sound castist. But caste is a reality in the world. Best you learn the facts then you can decide of you are strong enough to deal with discrimination and hatred. 

About the Anand kaaraj. I think as he is a Sikh, he will be allowed to do an Anand kaaraj. However will he feel comfortable doing the ceremony at your gurdwara? Also I'm not sure but I heard the separatist Guru Ravidaas ppl may have  adopted the fire ceremony as well. 

I would say you guys take time to discuss things. Take the marriage course offered by basics of sikhi. The 32 questions to fall in love. Discuss ur believes and goals. And most importantly, involve ur parents in your decisions. They are the support you want to have to fall back on, so don't burn any bridges. 

 

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12 hours ago, Not2Cool2Argue said:

You have good questions.

Your mom is right. Before due to discrimination, chamaar people got their own gurdwara. They were called Ravidaasiye or Ramgariye. Because these two respected personalities were of the same chamber caste. They just looked up to Bhagat Ravidaas ji and the 17th century Sikh Jassa singh raamgariya. All was good.

However a few years back maybe 2010s. A movement started that wanted to separate Sikh people from chamaar background into separate religion. This was the Ravidaasiye movement. They said we will have separate religion, Bhagat Ravidaas will be our Guru now. Some only believe in Guru Ravidaas. Also some even went so far, as to take all of Bhagat ravidaas jis bani and formed into their grants. They removed the rest of gurbani. That is very very sad for them. To have hatred towards bani based on the fact that a similar caste person as them didn't write it? What could be more castist or unfortunate? gurdwara. They also made a different Nishaan sahib and different greeting than Fateh.

 

There was a schism or separation among the Ravidaasiye gurudwaras. Some followed this new movement and some said no we are Sikhs of Guru granth sahib, we won't follow this nonsense. 

It seems as if your partner is a mixed bag of both. He probably doesn't know what to believe. And his relatives will be worse. Some staunchly on one side and some on the other. Some will also be castist. Taking out their hate of Jatts and how they were treated on you. Also will you henceforth be going to ravidaasiye gurdwara? Will your husband or his family be comfortable visiting the gurdwara you do? What about your parents? Will they be comfortable going and meeting his family and that gurdwara?

I know I sound castist. But caste is a reality in the world. Best you learn the facts then you can decide of you are strong enough to deal with discrimination and hatred. 

About the Anand kaaraj. I think as he is a Sikh, he will be allowed to do an Anand kaaraj. However will he feel comfortable doing the ceremony at your gurdwara? Also I'm not sure but I heard the separatist Guru Ravidaas ppl may have  adopted the fire ceremony as well. 

I would say you guys take time to discuss things. Take the marriage course offered by basics of sikhi. The 32 questions to fall in love. Discuss ur believes and goals. And most importantly, involve ur parents in your decisions. They are the support you want to have to fall back on, so don't burn any bridges. 

The OP isn’t a legit post, and the person who posted it wanted to slightly insult chamars as Ravidassia instead of Sikhs. She only learned about his last name 3 years ago and they’ve been together for 6 years. 

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13 hours ago, Not2Cool2Argue said:

Before due to discrimination, chamaar people got their own gurdwara. They were called Ravidaasiye or Ramgariye.

So now you're saying that both Ravidassi and Ramgarhia Gurdwaras are chamaar gurdwaras? You seem quite misinformed. Be careful of what you're being told yourself, especially if the person telling you may be a sociopath and/or inherently dishonest.   

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