Sikhs today like Jews before getting Israel

[GurjantGnostic]

16 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

The difference between Jews and us, is that the people who support Israel the most aren’t Jews, but American Evangelicals, who believe that Jesus needs a homeland for him to comeback. The Zionists take advantage of Gora stupidity. There is no equal concept in the largest religions in the subcontinent; where they need some free Punjab for their messiah in Hinduism or Islam to come. 

Very nice of you to capitalize around them. I don't usually any more unless I'm talking about Jesus himself. Or the few real Christians, most of whom Shaheed from the beginning. 

[californiasardar1]

Bad comparison.

1. Jewish people tend to be really intelligent. Sikhs are generally extremely stupid (I hate to say it, but it is true)

2. Jewish people help each other out. Sikhs are always fighting with each other.

3. Jews who are not religious (or are even atheist) look out for Jewish interests. This does not apply to the same degree to Sikhs.

4. Jews have institutions, wealth, political power, etc. Sikh institutions are a joke. Sikhs who have anything resembling wealth or political power mostly do not care about Sikhi or are actively anti-Sikhi.

 

I could go on and on ...

[proactive]

9 hours ago, SikhKosh said:

Are we headed for the same fate as Jews before the creation of Israel? Our historical homeland is soon going to lose the Sikh majority tag due to emigration and conversions. We are gaining influence all over the world but losing it in our own home, much like the Jews did (albeit in different circumstances).

Are there any other parallels, things to be learnt from the Jews? What can be done to counter this before it is too late ?

One thing we need to learn as a nation though is the acceptance of leaders who may not be as religious as we'd like them to be. Theodor Herzl for the Jews and Mhd Ali Jinnah for the Muslims managed to do more good for their respective Qaums than the religious extremists despite being non believers themselves.

There is nothing wrong is migration provided we are able to maintain our majority in Punjab or even increase it. This was the situation when we had the first round of mass migration from the 1960s to the 1980s. We were able to not only maintain our majority but increase it all the way up to 1991 even given the massacres were faced in the 1980s. What really set up back is the liberalisation and the inculcation of the small nuclear family into our culture. Once a people or nation lose their dynamic reproduction  rate then it is almost impossible to get it back. Nations across the world are giving financial incentives to couples to have more children in order to increase their populations or even just to keep from their populations decreasing over the next decades. Russia is suffering a demographic timebomb. Italy too. 

I remember when the first indication of the decreasing Sikh reproductive rate became known when the Census of 2001 details on religion were released in 2004, the Akal Takht Jathedar made a statement that Sikhs should be having at least 4 children. The mass hysteria from not only just the Sikh liberals but also the so-called Panthic Sikhs showed just how far our people had walked blindly into the one way alley of self destruction. The number of "quality not quantity" BS quotes that were in the media was astounding. The Akal Takht Jathedar's statement was attacked from all sides. There was actually even a article in a major newspaper a few years ago which stated that Sikhs should congratulate themselves because by having a lower birth rate they were helping India advance economically!! So the country was advancing economically by stopping the birth of a few lakh of the most economically productive people in the country while the the rest of the country was happily giving birth to 15 million hungry mouths each year! 

The only parallels we should be taking from the Jews at the moment is from the different reproductive rates in their community. While their liberals who are as brain dead and self destructive as our own are either childless sterile dummies or having one child while their religious Jews such as the orthodox are having 5-6 if not more children. Their demographic profile will change in the next few decades where the orthodox Jews will be the mass majority while the liberal Jews will be as dead as the dodo. This is also what we should be aiming for. As we get more religious, we should be aiming for 4 or more children to each religious Sikh married couple. Let the Ravi Singhs and the Sunny Hundal have one child or none and with each generation let the liberal Sikhs decline while the religious Sikhs expand by leap and bounds. As far as I know Ravi Singh has only one child. a daughter, the irony of the guy who goes out to save the world and yet his male line will die with him. Quite ironic. 

 

[proactive]

22 minutes ago, californiasardar1 said:

Bad comparison.

1. Jewish people tend to be really intelligent. Sikhs are generally extremely stupid (I hate to say it, but it is true)

 

Intelligence does not equate to having common sense. How many of the intelligent Jews such as Noam Chomsky are actively anti-Israel and making common cause with their enemies who want the genocide of the Jewish people such as Hamas? 

Quote

2. Jewish people help each other out. Sikhs are always fighting with each other.

This might have been the case in the early years of the Jewish migrations to the US in the late 19th century and after the holocaust but today a Jew is more likely to want other Jews to fail and himself to be the only successful Jew in the world. Jews especially successful Jews hate other successful Jews. 

Quote

3. Jews who are not religious (or are even atheist) look out for Jewish interests. This does not apply to the same degree to Sikhs.

The vast majority do not. The anti-Israel organisations such as the BDS movement are dominated by self hating Jews. 

Quote

4. Jews have institutions, wealth, political power, etc. Sikh institutions are a joke. Sikhs who have anything resembling wealth or political power mostly do not care about Sikhi or are actively anti-Sikhi.

 

We are a century behind Jews in terms of when we migrated in large numbers to the USA and Canada. In the UK Sikhs have a higher percentage of home ownership which is one the chief markers of success than the Jews. The Jewish community has remained static or even decreased in numbers over the last few decades. Jewish institutions have gone from serving an increasing Jewish population when they were first founded to now being just liberal institutions being subsumed into the general mass of philanthropic institutions in the country. 

[SikhKosh]

A small explanation on both of my claims:

1. Sikhs are becoming a minority in Punjab. We had only 57% Sikhs in Punjab in the 2011 census, if the figures are correctly collected in the next census we should now be in the 49-53% range, with an aging population. Last time I went to Doaba most houses in the villages were either locked or had only the old Sikh (grand)parents living alone. 

I disagree with Proactive: it is impossible to maintain a Sikh majority with the kind of mass exodus of Sikh youth that Punjab has seen in the last decade. It is not comparable to our migration in the last century where it was a more controlled one (except in the 80s 90s). Special steps need to be taken to ensure Punjab remains a Sikh majority, even if just in figures.
Having 4 children is not the only or best solution in an already overpopulated world, we need to do create Khalsa orphanages and do parchar to target the existing population. Can you imagine Muslims opening up orphanages in our East Punjab and getting our children to become Muslims? It is happening which is a shame.

2. Sikhs are becoming influental all over. We collectively need to come out of this victim complex and see the successes that we are booking all over the world. 

• The farm laws getting repealed is a major feat for our qaum. The farmers protest, while not entirely a Sikh movement (with help of leftist parties & other north Indian farmers), it had a major Sikh presence, spirit and got international coverage only because of the Sikh community. This is a major blow to Modi and the first time he has backed down on such a big law. Credit goes to the Sikhs.
• Barring Jaggi's case, where he himself walked into the devil's mouth, we have managed to counter and stop the govt of India in the extradition of Parmjit Singh Pamma in Portugal, half the deportation of three British Sikh youth in the Rulda Sinh case, gotten Vishal Jood deported and so on. It is not a small feat to counter a power like India.
• The Jewish success story is getting outdated. Sikhs are quickly rising all over the world - both on an individual level like SPS Oberoi in the Arab countries, the Rais in Eastern Africa, and the many Sikh multi millionaires and billionaires in the US, Canada and UK. On a collective level we are prosperous everywhere: we have the highest number of house ownership in the UK, higher than even the Jews. Half of the Sikhs in the UK have a second home in the UK. Sikhs in India are one of the wealthiest communities (only behind the Jains and perhaps Parsis).
• Many, including Sindhi Hindus, are embracing Sikhi partly due to our growing influence and networking. See the following comment by the head of Pak Hindu Council himself:
   

  Quote

   

  The leader of Pakistan Hindu Council Mangla Sharma grudgingly accepts that there is a substantial scale conversion going on among Hindus into Sikhism. He also admits that this is not an organised conversion, but people initiating into Sikhism on their own free will. He says that 20-25 years ago, there was NOT a single VISIBLE Sikh to be seen in SIND, nor there was even a seat for Sikhs in the National Assembly of Sind, all this has changed now.

  He goes on to say that since from 2000, many good Sikh deeds hit the news headlines. People started taking notice of the Sikh religion. The people who adopted the Sikh religion soon found it was to their advantage to be Sikhs, both in community and also politically in government, and as said already it offered them multiple opportunities to enrich and enhance their own standing and quality of life in Pakistan.

  Mangal goes on to say that the teachings of Sikhism are universal and it can be seen the Sikhs are a very cohesive community and support each other closely both in business and other aspects of life.They are on a positive financial footing and well respected among Muslims and government.

  Also, in recent times, the Sikhs took a leading role in a case in Sind high court against alcohol prohibition with great success, and earning respect among Muslims. Secondly, there was census box for Sikhs in the National Census, now they have won that right too, which has boosted the Sikhs.

  Mangal says the success of Sikhs in foreign western and other countries has filtered through, which has created an impressive image of being Sikhs, has persuaded many to convert to Sikhism in Pakistan.

   

• I rest my case. Sikhs are going to become a minority in Punjab in the coming decade but will become even more influental world wide. Lets see how we manage to balance it out and maintain our grip on East Punjab.

[SikhKosh]

16 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

Who's going to be our Lord Rothschild, recipient of our particular Balfour Declaration? Reuben Singh?

Babbu Mann

[Premi5]

47 minutes ago, SikhKosh said:

A small explanation on both of my claims:

1. Sikhs are becoming a minority in Punjab. We had only 57% Sikhs in Punjab in the 2011 census, if the figures are correctly collected in the next census we should now be in the 49-53% range, with an aging population. Last time I went to Doaba most houses in the villages were either locked or had only the old Sikh (grand)parents living alone. 

I disagree with Proactive: it is impossible to maintain a Sikh majority with the kind of mass exodus of Sikh youth that Punjab has seen in the last decade. It is not comparable to our migration in the last century where it was a more controlled one (except in the 80s 90s). Special steps need to be taken to ensure Punjab remains a Sikh majority, even if just in figures.
Having 4 children is not the only or best solution in an already overpopulated world, we need to do create Khalsa orphanages and do parchar to target the existing population. Can you imagine Muslims opening up orphanages in our East Punjab and getting our children to become Muslims? It is happening which is a shame.

2. Sikhs are becoming influental all over. We collectively need to come out of this victim complex and see the successes that we are booking all over the world. 

• The farm laws getting repealed is a major feat for our qaum. The farmers protest, while not entirely a Sikh movement (with help of leftist parties & other north Indian farmers), it had a major Sikh presence, spirit and got international coverage only because of the Sikh community. This is a major blow to Modi and the first time he has backed down on such a big law. Credit goes to the Sikhs.
• Barring Jaggi's case, where he himself walked into the devil's mouth, we have managed to counter and stop the govt of India in the extradition of Parmjit Singh Pamma in Portugal, half the deportation of three British Sikh youth in the Rulda Sinh case, gotten Vishal Jood deported and so on. It is not a small feat to counter a power like India.
• The Jewish success story is getting outdated. Sikhs are quickly rising all over the world - both on an individual level like SPS Oberoi in the Arab countries, the Rais in Eastern Africa, and the many Sikh multi millionaires and billionaires in the US, Canada and UK. On a collective level we are prosperous everywhere: we have the highest number of house ownership in the UK, higher than even the Jews. Half of the Sikhs in the UK have a second home in the UK. Sikhs in India are one of the wealthiest communities (only behind the Jains and perhaps Parsis).
• Many, including Sindhi Hindus, are embracing Sikhi partly due to our growing influence and networking. See the following comment by the head of Pak Hindu Council himself:
   
• I rest my case. Sikhs are going to become a minority in Punjab in the coming decade but will become even more influental world wide. Lets see how we manage to balance it out and maintain our grip on East Punjab.

I liked and agreed with your points here.

Where in the UK are you btw (just curious) ?

I have said before that it's not such a big deal that Sikhi stays so attached to Punjab/Punjabis (although in the longer term, Guru kirpa it will) - the 'Hindi/cow belt around Punjab in Jammu, Haryana, Himachal, Rajasthan etc speak similarish language (just as much of Gurbani is from related languages/dialects but not Panjabi), so these people can naturally take up Punjabi and /or understand Bani etc and even the parts of Punjabiyat linked to Sikhi

Also, Judaism and Christianity share a lot in common and Jews intermixed in many European countries, and hence many don't obviously look much different than 'European' whites in the West.

Sikhs completely stand out in most of the countries they live in outside India, esp in West where even if not in Saroop, they are of different skin tone and facial feature

South Asia therefore would be the place where they could intermix like Jews did in Europe

[Premi5]

https://www.theweek.in/theweek/statescan/2021/12/23/how-a-tribal-village-in-telangana-turned-to-sikhism.html

How a tribal village in Telangana turned to Sikhism

 By Rahul Devulapalli Issue Date: January 02, 2022 Updated: December 26, 2021 10:22 IST

Guiding light: Children in front of the gurdwara in Gachubhai Thanda | P. Prasad

TO REACH GACHUBHAI Thanda, one has to follow the line of sight of a renowned Hindu saint’s statue. The 216ft-tall statue of saint Ramanujacharya, also called the Statue of Equality, will be unveiled by Prime Minister Narendra Modi in February 2022.

Even within a family, there are people of different faiths, as some members have chosen to convert and some have not. And, that is perhaps why one’s faith has never harboured hate for another here.

The tribal hamlet and its neighbour, a spiritual mascot, lie in Shamshabad, a short drive from Hyderabad. A narrow, dusty lane off the Hyderabad-Bengaluru highway leads to the entrance of the settlement. But for the villagers, Gachubhai Thanda now exists only on paper, as they insist that they live in Guru Gobind Singh Nagar.

It is Sunday morning, and a middle-aged man donning a Patiala shahi pagg—a traditional way for tying the Sikh turban—with a kirpan slung across his chest, guides a heavy vehicle. A little farther away, a youngster in a gol parna (another Sikh turban style) stands outside a small concrete house. And, on reaching the open field, one can see six boys in patka—a smaller under-turban worn by children—playing cricket. One does not need to refer to official records to know that 90 per cent of residents here are Sikhs.

The village has around 500 residents, almost all of whom are Lambadas, listed under the Scheduled Tribes. The conversion to Sikhism happened in the last 20 years or so. The villagers mostly speak Lambadi and a bit of Hindi and Telugu, but no Punjabi. The village has its own gurdwara—Gurdwara Saheb Dashmesh Darbar. The two-storied structure lies on one end of the village, surrounded by farmland.

In its vicinity lives Lakhvinder Singh, who was born Khetawat Deepla. All Sikhs in the village took new names when they embraced the new religion. Lakhvinder, 73, is president of the gurdwara committee. The gurdwara stands on land he donated five years ago. “Life became more meaningful after I converted,”says Lakhvinder, who was among the first converts. He points to a room in the gurdwara premises, and says, “That is where it all started for us.”

Inside the unused room is a two-feet-high tomb. “Our ancestors used to occasionally visit the Nanded Sahib in Maharashtra,”recalls Lakhvinder. “Around 50 years ago, they set a bull free, chanting the name of Guru Gobind Singh. When it died, they buried the animal and constructed a tomb. The elders then placed a picture of Guru Nanak above the tomb and conducted pujas for a long time. In 1996, we raised a roof and turned it into a small temple.”

It was another village elder—Bhagat Singh—who initiated the process of building a gurdwara in the village. Bhagat claims to have visited the Sikh holy sites in Pakistan and also stayed at a gurdwara in Hyderabad for nearly five years to get a deeper understanding of the faith and its tenets.

“In 2001, I consulted Sikh religious leaders on converting our small temple into a gurdwara,”recalls Bhagat, an auto driver. “We were told that it was better to embrace Sikhism if we wished to perform rituals at the gurudwara. Around 70 of us then got initiated into the faith, and we started carrying the five articles mandated by the religion.”

Leap of faith: A youngster in Gachubhai Thanda performing gatka, a Sikh martial art | P. Prasad

According to Bhagat, their strength has grown from 70 to more than 400 now. “Inspired by us, a few from nearby hamlets have also converted,”he says.

A usual day at Guru Gobind Singh Nagar begins at 4am, with hymns and verses blaring from the gurdwara’s speakers. The gurdwara is open for all devotees till 7:30pm. On full moon days and special occasions, a langar is served. Guru Gobind Singh’s birthday is celebrated with aplomb every January 26, so as to not clash with the December birthday celebrations at other gurdwaras. Committee members say at least 5,000 people attend the day-long festivities, with kirtan specialists and religious leaders arriving from Punjab.

A few donors help run the gurdwara, say villagers. “There was good support while constructing the gurdwara,”says Lakhvinder. “The planning and architecture was done by the team from Patna Sahib. A part of the construction material was donated by Nanded Sahib members. A person from Hyderabad, too, helped a lot while building the gurudwara.”

Mohan Singh, 30, is the granthi (priest)—the first from the village. He stayed and trained at a gurdwara in Hyderabad for 13 years before returning to his village. He is also one of the few who can read Gurmukhi.

“We want the younger generation to follow our path,”says Mohan. “When I find time, I teach children about the principles of our religion and its importance. Sometimes, people from other gurdwaras come to teach kirtan or gatka (sword-fighting) to the youngsters.”

The lifestyle and outlook of the villagers has also changed over the years. Tobacco is banned in the hamlet. “Whenever we see someone smoking, we immediately counsel them,”says Dharam Singh, who is in his 20s. “No shops here sell tobacco products. The same goes for alcohol and toddy.”

Also, meat is consumed only if the animal has been killed by jhatka or single strike. That is why some villagers volunteer as butchers from time to time.

Considering the community is small, is it not difficult to find a bride or groom? Dharam says that they have help here, too. “Recently, an elderly Sikh woman from Hyderabad, who has supported us from the beginning, proposed that she could help us find the right match from other parts of the country, including Punjab. If you ask me, I am open to it,”he says.

But village elders say that it is better to marry someone from their own tribe. While many from nearby hamlets may not have converted to Sikhism, says an elder, they have no problem marrying the youth of Guru Gobind Singh Nagar.

The villagers live in harmony with each other, irrespective of their faith. Kethavath Rahul’s family is among the few who have not converted to Sikhism. “My family had migrated to Pune and lived there for many years,”he says. “When we returned, it was a little difficult for me to adjust as everyone here was different. Now I am comfortable with them and I also visit the gurdwara.”

Even within a family, there are people of different faiths, as some members have chosen to convert and some have not. And, that is perhaps why one’s faith has never harboured hate for another here. The villagers proudly say that they have never experienced communal tensions or discrimination. For now, they are all upbeat about the new landmark that is visible from every house in the village—the Statue of Equality.

[proudkaur21]

3 hours ago, SikhKosh said:

A small explanation on both of my claims:

1. Sikhs are becoming a minority in Punjab. We had only 57% Sikhs in Punjab in the 2011 census, if the figures are correctly collected in the next census we should now be in the 49-53% range, with an aging population. Last time I went to Doaba most houses in the villages were either locked or had only the old Sikh (grand)parents living alone. 

I disagree with Proactive: it is impossible to maintain a Sikh majority with the kind of mass exodus of Sikh youth that Punjab has seen in the last decade. It is not comparable to our migration in the last century where it was a more controlled one (except in the 80s 90s). Special steps need to be taken to ensure Punjab remains a Sikh majority, even if just in figures.
Having 4 children is not the only or best solution in an already overpopulated world, we need to do create Khalsa orphanages and do parchar to target the existing population. Can you imagine Muslims opening up orphanages in our East Punjab and getting our children to become Muslims? It is happening which is a shame.

2. Sikhs are becoming influental all over. We collectively need to come out of this victim complex and see the successes that we are booking all over the world. 

• The farm laws getting repealed is a major feat for our qaum. The farmers protest, while not entirely a Sikh movement (with help of leftist parties & other north Indian farmers), it had a major Sikh presence, spirit and got international coverage only because of the Sikh community. This is a major blow to Modi and the first time he has backed down on such a big law. Credit goes to the Sikhs.
• Barring Jaggi's case, where he himself walked into the devil's mouth, we have managed to counter and stop the govt of India in the extradition of Parmjit Singh Pamma in Portugal, half the deportation of three British Sikh youth in the Rulda Sinh case, gotten Vishal Jood deported and so on. It is not a small feat to counter a power like India.
• The Jewish success story is getting outdated. Sikhs are quickly rising all over the world - both on an individual level like SPS Oberoi in the Arab countries, the Rais in Eastern Africa, and the many Sikh multi millionaires and billionaires in the US, Canada and UK. On a collective level we are prosperous everywhere: we have the highest number of house ownership in the UK, higher than even the Jews. Half of the Sikhs in the UK have a second home in the UK. Sikhs in India are one of the wealthiest communities (only behind the Jains and perhaps Parsis).
• Many, including Sindhi Hindus, are embracing Sikhi partly due to our growing influence and networking. See the following comment by the head of Pak Hindu Council himself:
   
• I rest my case. Sikhs are going to become a minority in Punjab in the coming decade but will become even more influental world wide. Lets see how we manage to balance it out and maintain our grip on East Punjab.

But hindus from punjab are moving to western countries too. I know so many from the city i belong to who now live in canada , australia and what not. Its not just our lot.

[californiasardar1]

12 hours ago, proactive said:

Intelligence does not equate to having common sense. How many of the intelligent Jews such as Noam Chomsky are actively anti-Israel and making common cause with their enemies who want the genocide of the Jewish people such as Hamas? 

This might have been the case in the early years of the Jewish migrations to the US in the late 19th century and after the holocaust but today a Jew is more likely to want other Jews to fail and himself to be the only successful Jew in the world. Jews especially successful Jews hate other successful Jews. 

The vast majority do not. The anti-Israel organisations such as the BDS movement are dominated by self hating Jews. 

We are a century behind Jews in terms of when we migrated in large numbers to the USA and Canada. In the UK Sikhs have a higher percentage of home ownership which is one the chief markers of success than the Jews. The Jewish community has remained static or even decreased in numbers over the last few decades. Jewish institutions have gone from serving an increasing Jewish population when they were first founded to now being just liberal institutions being subsumed into the general mass of philanthropic institutions in the country. 

 

Jews like Chomsky are a tiny minority. The vast, vast majority of Jews are very pro-Israel.

Jewish people are in general very intelligent, and that has allowed them to be very successful and influential. The expulsion of Jews shifted the scientific center of the world from Germany to the US and played a huge role in turning the US into a superpower.

Jewish people are about 2% of the population in the US but are highly overrepresented in politics, media, entertainment, finance, tech, law, academics, ... basically any influential profession that matters. Both political parties in the US are extremely pro-Israel for a reason.

In what areas are Sikhs overrepresented? Truck driving? Give me a break ...