Muslims

[Big_Tera 1,717]

2 minutes ago, Big_Tera said:

 

 

[proudkaur21 2,211]

42 minutes ago, Big_Tera said:

Good question. I would not have been able to answer this query untill I did a bit of research only two weeks ago which only took a few hours of reading. I think I am slightly skilled if I do say so myself in that I can read and undertsand very quickly. Whereas another person would take months/years to fully understand and comprehend.

Now back to your question.

Muhammed was illiterate he could not read or write. The entire koran was not written by Muhammed. He did not write a single word of it. at the time and near to Muhammeds death, His companions started writing down muhammeds so called revelations they also supposedly memorised muhammeds words and teachings and also wrote this down which became know as the quran.

Hence these companions soley wrote the koran. Which brings me onto another criticism. How can the islamic scripture be called accurate if it was written by other people then Muhammed himself and also they went on their memory. everyone knows that our memory of something is often wrong. These companions would have definantly written wrong things based on their faded memories. This is completley different to how the SGGS Ji was written which was compiled and handwritten by the Gurus themselves not by someones elses faded memories.

hence how the quran can be called 100% literal word of God is obviously false. also I believe the muslims say their scipture is divinely inspired by God but not litteraly the word of God.

 

They will say the companions had special powers and so could not forget a single word lol. 

[SinghPunjabSingh 335]

On 4/25/2022 at 10:12 PM, GurjantGnostic said:

Kabeer. 

Dhan Dhan Baba Kabir Ji Maharaj were avowedly non-Muslim bro.

Hence why the Muslim murderers tried to kill Dhan Dhan Baba Kabir Ji Maharaj as an Apostate who denounced Islam.

17 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

1. Outliers sent by God to reform 

2. Or a slightly more cynical perspective: individuals who realise the evil and the contradictions of the religion they're born into, but are too afraid to leave or make waves against the status quo, so decide to straddle the fence by nudging for introspection whilst not making themselves enemies of the orthodoxy.

1. In the case of Dhan Dhan Baba Kabir Ji Maharaj they were *the* most critical within our Shabad Guru in terms of criticising Islam. Ie they were not Muslim and abhorred Islam theologically. Of course they were raised by Muslim parents as a child but they rejected everything Islam stands for as an adult. Similarly, with Pir Buddhu Shah and Sain Mian Mir as those devout souls did matha tek before Guru Sahib they had already self-categorised themselves as non-Muslims - much like the erstwhile Muslim apostate and scholar Allah Yaar Khan.

2. This very strongly applies to the crooks claiming to be the lineal spiritual descendants of various so-called Sufi orders nowadays. A Sufi cannot be Muslim by defintion despite the oxymoron term nowadays of Sufi Muslim used by apologists. True Sufi's by definition believe in One God but reject the slavery, terrorism, genocide and sexual abuse that Prophet Muhammad himself engaged and that the Quran condones.

16 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

If we look at the Hindu and Muslim bhagats, they would be seen as those against their religion rather than loyal to the orthodoxy of their respected faiths. Peer Buddhu Shah himself was made a Shaheed for going against the orthodoxy of Aurangzeb/Islam to assist Guru Sahib. 

There were no Hindu and Muslim Bhagats. Being born into a certain faith background does not define the spiritual that our blessed Bhagat's held (=Gurmat). Those whose promoted Gurmat via Gurbani that we bow down to every day were Gurmukhs of the Highest Order and clearly non-Hindu's and non-Muslims. Peer Buddhu Shah were made shaheed for being an apostate of Islam and bowing down before Guru Sahib. Anyone who bows down before anything other than the black stone in Mecca is automatically a non-Muslim in Islam.

 

7 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

(*Actual*) Sufis as a whole have been persecuted throughout history by Muslims

This is because true Sufi's cannot be Muslim. As the true Sufi's are non-Muslims who believe in one God but reject the moral depravity of the Prophet Muhammad for engaging in Slavery, Genocide, Pedophilia, Terrorism, Sexual Abuse etc as detailed in Quran, Hadiths and Sharia.

[abhinav 22]

Saw a couple of video clips recently that I thought I'd share.

https://twitter.com/Jemima_Khan/status/1516535139601424388

Also be warned this is really disturbing. Watch from 7:30 mins onwards.

https://youtu.be/JXX1C_cVf2o?t=448

[GurjantGnostic 4,644]

5 hours ago, SinghPunjabSingh said:

Dhan Dhan Baba Kabir Ji Maharaj were avowedly non-Muslim bro.

Hence why the Muslim murderers tried to kill Dhan Dhan Baba Kabir Ji Maharaj as an Apostate who denounced Islam.

1. In the case of Dhan Dhan Baba Kabir Ji Maharaj they were *the* most critical within our Shabad Guru in terms of criticising Islam. Ie they were not Muslim and abhorred Islam theologically. Of course they were raised by Muslim parents as a child but they rejected everything Islam stands for as an adult. Similarly, with Pir Buddhu Shah and Sain Mian Mir as those devout souls did matha tek before Guru Sahib they had already self-categorised themselves as non-Muslims - much like the erstwhile Muslim apostate and scholar Allah Yaar Khan.

2. This very strongly applies to the crooks claiming to be the lineal spiritual descendants of various so-called Sufi orders nowadays. A Sufi cannot be Muslim by defintion despite the oxymoron term nowadays of Sufi Muslim used by apologists. True Sufi's by definition believe in One God but reject the slavery, terrorism, genocide and sexual abuse that Prophet Muhammad himself engaged and that the Quran condones.

There were no Hindu and Muslim Bhagats. Being born into a certain faith background does not define the spiritual that our blessed Bhagat's held (=Gurmat). Those whose promoted Gurmat via Gurbani that we bow down to every day were Gurmukhs of the Highest Order and clearly non-Hindu's and non-Muslims. Peer Buddhu Shah were made shaheed for being an apostate of Islam and bowing down before Guru Sahib. Anyone who bows down before anything other than the black stone in Mecca is automatically a non-Muslim in Islam.

 

This is because true Sufi's cannot be Muslim. As the true Sufi's are non-Muslims who believe in one God but reject the moral depravity of the Prophet Muhammad for engaging in Slavery, Genocide, Pedophilia, Terrorism, Sexual Abuse etc as detailed in Quran, Hadiths and Sharia.

I'm with all that. Just pointing out what religion you're birthed into doesn't work as was being theorized. 

Good points. 

[dallysingh101 7,440]

On 4/26/2022 at 5:29 AM, proactive said:

Interesting thought. I remember elder members of my family used to say that those people who appear incapable of human emotions and general humanity had been born into a human body before their time. Some kind of glitch has caused them to be born in a human body before they had gone through the necessary experience and development in other life forms which would have set them up to attain human birth.

You seem to have described sociopaths and psychopaths. We seem to have a lot of them on earth. Surely there can't be that many mistakes? 

Personally I think a lot of these people have neurological wiring that disposes them to think the way they do. And/or they have had overwhelming childhood experiences that have shortcircuited parts of the brain that deal with emotion and empathy. This ironically can give some of the higher functioning ones advantages in being able to manipulate, and they actually prosper.   

[Jacfsing2 893]

12 hours ago, Big_Tera said:

Muhammed was illiterate he could not read or write.

I'm not sure this is accurate, Muhammad was related to the Quraysh tribe who pretty much owned all of Pagan Arabia religious sphere, and also the fact on his death bed he wanted to write something, but his disciple Omar didn't want him to write anything.

[proactive 4,152]

35 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

You seem to have described sociopaths and psychopaths. We seem to have a lot of them on earth. Surely their can't be that many mistakes? 

Personally I think a lot of these people have neurological wiring that disposes them to think they do. And/or they have had overwhelming childhood experiences that have shortcircuited parts of the brain that deal with emotion and empathy. This ironically can give some of the higher functioning ones advantages in being able to manipulate, and they actually prosper.   

You are right that there are people who through their childhood experiences go on to become sociopaths and psychopaths. But not every one of these peoples' mental condition can be traced back to childhood or the way they were raised or even events in later life. There are lots of people who have had the perfect childhood and they have gone on to become psychopaths. These are probably the ones who entered the Maanas Janam before their time. 

[Suchi 735]

14 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

I'm not sure this is accurate, Muhammad was related to the Quraysh tribe who pretty much owned all of Pagan Arabia religious sphere, and also the fact on his death bed he wanted to write something, but his disciple Omar didn't want him to write anything.

According to Ajit vadayakil, Mohammed was from the Namboodri Tribe of Kerala responsible for the care of the Kaaba and idols they worshipped. Therefore high born. 

[dallysingh101 7,440]

7 minutes ago, proactive said:

You are right that there are people who through their childhood experiences go on to become sociopaths and psychopaths. But not every one of these peoples' mental condition can be traced back to childhood or the way they were raised or even events in later life. There are lots of people who have had the perfect childhood and they have gone on to become psychopaths. These are probably the ones who entered the Maanas Janam before their time. 

It's a fascinating subject, and one that is a 'hot topic' in psychology studies these days. The understanding these days is that you have to have a genetic disposition for this way of thinking and acting, but it doesn't always manifest itself, sometimes childhood trauma triggers the disposition, sometimes (like you mention) it's manifest regardless of childhood experiences (i.e. even people who have loving supporting families come out this way). 

 

To me, the worse of them are actually living asuras or daints (from a Sikhi perspective). 

They seem to thrive off the energy of oppression and manipulation and pain. It's a power thing. If you're astute, you can see the signs very early on (in childhood) in lying, stealing, manipulation, insidiously causing trouble and watching the fallout. They are very uncomfortable about any talking about emotions and ethics etc. 

 

[Suchi 735]

On 4/27/2022 at 11:55 AM, dallysingh101 said:

It's a fascinating subject, and one that is a 'hot topic' in psychology studies these days. The understanding these days is that you have to have a genetic disposition for this way of thinking and acting, but it doesn't always manifest itself, sometimes childhood trauma triggers the disposition, sometimes (like you mention) it's manifest regardless of childhood experiences (i.e. even people who have loving supporting families come out this way). 

 

To me, the worse of them are actually living asuras or daints (from a Sikhi perspective). 

They seem to thrive off the energy of oppression and manipulation and pain. It's a power thing. If you're astute, you can see the signs very early on (in childhood) in lying, stealing, manipulation, insidiously causing trouble and watching the fallout. They are very uncomfortable about any talking about emotions and ethics etc. 

 

Could it also be due to the effect of the planets? As in astrology that states personality/major life events are determined according to the time and place of birth? 

It is based on science: 

https://medium.com/the-science-of-astrology/the-scientific-evidence-of-astrology-50ead3fabe04

@dallysingh101 

 

[Suchi 735]

I'm sure such acts would also impact many. 

https://robertspencer.org/2022/04/malaysia-sharia-court-sentences-mp-to-jail-for-saying-sharia-discriminates-against-women

 

[Big_Tera 1,717]

22 hours ago, proudkaur21 said:

They will say the companions had special powers and so could not forget a single word lol. 

Yep, they keep banging on about how the koran has never been altered/corrupted. Yet there is enormous ambiguity over the authenticity of the the original book. That was written down by conpanions who obviously must have their own twist on what Muhammed said. Most of the koran is copy and pasted from jewish and christian scriptures.  This is not suprising as Muhammed did not come up with nothing new apart from a few arabic traditions.

[Big_Tera 1,717]

On 4/27/2022 at 11:25 AM, Jacfsing2 said:

I'm not sure this is accurate, Muhammad was related to the Quraysh tribe who pretty much owned all of Pagan Arabia religious sphere, and also the fact on his death bed he wanted to write something, but his disciple Omar didn't want him to write anything.

What sources do you have that say Muhammed was literate and could read and write? From the vast amount of info on Muhammed, the overwhelming consensus from scholars was that he was illiterate. Are you suggesting he wrote the Koran?

[Jacfsing2 893]

4 minutes ago, Big_Tera said:

What sources do you have that say Muhammed was literate and could read and write? From the vast amount of info on Muhammed, the overwhelming consensus from scholars was that he was illiterate. Are you suggesting he wrote the Koran?

I'm referring to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith_of_Pen_and_Paper Both Sunnis and Shias accept this hadith. The Quran was most likely not told to him by Gabriel and he just collected Jewish/Christian sakhis and brought some pagan Arab influence and created his Quran that way.