Where will badal be rated in the list of bad Sikhs?

[GurjantGnostic]

3 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

Not suggesting you're incorrect, but I've struggled to understand how we were ever independent minded. Educate me.

Well...Guru Nanak Dev Ji to Ranjeet Singh isn't so bad. Asterisk on Massands. 

[Jacfsing2]

5 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

Not suggesting you're incorrect, but I've struggled to understand how we were ever independent minded. Educate me.

When the Gurus were human, the Sikhs would never had acknowledged the Mughal/Delhi Sultanate superiority over them, and Guru Sahib created a raj within the Mughals which was distinct from them and independent; (despite it being completely inside the Mughal empire). Eventually the Sikhs would have Misl states which was also independent from Mughals and Abdali despite technically being controlled by them. Once Maharaja Ranjit Singh came into power, then there started to be a fusion of Sikh Dharam with the rule of Punjab, so once the British eventually took over, this independent mindset eventually grew away. (Even many of the Singh Sabha movement people were loyal to British). Now with India, there’s no difference between our mindset and that of Hindus and Muslims except sometimes we might wear a pagg with kirpan, but otherwise we’ve lost the independent mindset.

[MisterrSingh]

1 hour ago, Jacfsing2 said:

When the Gurus were human, the Sikhs would never had acknowledged the Mughal/Delhi Sultanate superiority over them, and Guru Sahib created a raj within the Mughals which was distinct from them and independent; (despite it being completely inside the Mughal empire). Eventually the Sikhs would have Misl states which was also independent from Mughals and Abdali despite technically being controlled by them. Once Maharaja Ranjit Singh came into power, then there started to be a fusion of Sikh Dharam with the rule of Punjab, so once the British eventually took over, this independent mindset eventually grew away. (Even many of the Singh Sabha movement people were loyal to British). Now with India, there’s no difference between our mindset and that of Hindus and Muslims except sometimes we might wear a pagg with kirpan, but otherwise we’ve lost the independent mindset.

By "Sikh" I thought you meant the masses, not the leadership or elite figureheads. It's a given that anyone who emerges to corral a demographic has to be a maverick who rejects the established order. The key for these leaders is to convince the people to abandon / exchange one set of beliefs for their new paradigm. History proves that it's not that difficult to do so especially in the past.

[Singh1989]

For now, the list is most likely to be top 5. Although he never directly attack but his toxicity has caused damage nontheless. His indirect attacks have seemed to be efficient in our Quam. 

[dallysingh101]

On 4/10/2022 at 5:48 AM, MisterrSingh said:

Not suggesting you're incorrect, but I've struggled to understand how we were ever independent minded. Educate me.

Sikhi, and especially dasam pita's teachings and the practices they introduced to Sikhs.