The Modern Anand Karaj

[dharamyudh]

Any ideas when the modern version of the Anand Karaj became the norm or where it started from? From my understanding, puratan Sikh weddings consisted of doing Laavan around a Havan. In fact, my great grandmother actually got married according to this custom. 

[dharamyudh]

Also, can we also touch on the fact that Havans were a common practice amongst Puratan Sikhs? It seems like the Puratan sampardas (Nirmala, Udaasi, Namdhaari, and Nihangs) have preserved the practice. However, it's only really the Nihangs that evolved and adopted the modern Anand Karaj despite doing havans for other reasons such as jaaps of Brahm Kavach. 

[Not2Cool2Argue]

Wasn't it Guru Nanak Dev ji himself who changed doing lavan around havan to around ptothi sahib? I think it's mentioned in janam sakhis  maybe? 

Also lots of our ancestors were not strictly Sikhs so we shouldn't go by what they did. They just followed the local Brahmans and what their ancestors had done. And did not want to change to the new way of sikhi. 

Any even if the modern anand karaj is not puratan, is there any reason to go back? The modern anand karaj was made during 1900s when the Sikhs were going thru a literary revolution similar to Europe's great enlightenment when lots of lost and hidden manuscripts were brought to light and the Sikhs had khalsa diwaans where Sikhs reached a consensus on maryada ardaas etc.

Why would you want to bring back practices that tie us closer to Hindus or sonatas dharam? Then what's the use of sikhi? We might as well become sanatan if we think there's nothing wrong with sanantan dharam. And all the updates and changes the Gurus and Sikhs did were not needed. 

 

[MisterrSingh]

Western Sikhs raised in this social media generation will love the return of haavan ceremonies. They can recreate their Bollywood fantasies.

[Jacfsing2]

16 hours ago, dharamyudh said:

Any ideas when the modern version of the Anand Karaj became the norm or where it started from? From my understanding, puratan Sikh weddings consisted of doing Laavan around a Havan. In fact, my great grandmother actually got married according to this custom. 

Non-Amritdharis didn't do Anand Karaj around Guru Sahib, and with the rise of old school Nirankaris under Baba Dayalthe Anand Karaj became popularized among non-amritdharis as well. The idea that Sikhs got married around a fire happened because lots of Sikhs who joined from the Hindu panth still continued this practice of havan marriage.

28 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Western Sikhs raised in this social media generation will love the return of haavan ceremonies. They can recreate their Bollywood fantasies.

I mean the reason Hindus get married around a fire is because that's one of their devi devte, to us it's just a fire. Naamdharis still do this fire marriage because they view Sikhi as a sect of Hindus.

[dharamyudh]

3 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Non-Amritdharis didn't do Anand Karaj around Guru Sahib, and with the rise of old school Nirankaris under Baba Dayalthe Anand Karaj became popularized among non-amritdharis as well. The idea that Sikhs got married around a fire happened because lots of Sikhs who joined from the Hindu panth still continued this practice of havan marriage.

I mean the reason Hindus get married around a fire is because that's one of their devi devte, to us it's just a fire. Naamdharis still do this fire marriage because they view Sikhi as a sect of Hindus.

Interesting. According to Suraj Prakash, SatGuru Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib Ji Maharaj had a Haavan wedding. 

[dharamyudh]

4 hours ago, dharamyudh said:

Interesting. According to Suraj Prakash, SatGuru Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib Ji Maharaj had a Haavan wedding. 

 

[Jacfsing2]

7 hours ago, dharamyudh said:

Interesting. According to Suraj Prakash, SatGuru Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib Ji Maharaj had a Haavan wedding. 

Guru Sahib probably did, but again we can't do everything that Guru Sahib did and assume it's ok for us to do the same. We follow the Gurus hukam as Sikhs, not copying what he does, and Guru Sahib's hukam is "Anand viah binaa grahist nahee karnaa" (Not having marital affairs without Anand Karaj)

[Singh375]

Wedding ceremony is just about 2 people making a commitment to stay loyal to each other until death do them part.

Hindu tradition of walking around fire is because fire is considered an ultimate power (cos it can burn anything). So it’s supposed to remind you if you break the promise you’ll get punished (in hell).

In Sikhi we make the promise in presence of shabad-guru, cos that’s our everything

So the most important thing is the ‘promise’. You know like in court people have to hold a bible and promise to tell truth. But for a Sikh they could hold a gutka sahib. It gives the court faith this person will be honest as they’re swearing upon the thing most sacred to them. 

Everything else - rituals, spending vast sums of money, ‘2 souls become 1’ is complete rubbish and fairy tales. 

On 4/27/2022 at 9:40 PM, MisterrSingh said:

They can recreate their Bollywood fantasies.

Exactly this! 

[ipledgeblue]

On 4/27/2022 at 8:05 PM, Not2Cool2Argue said:

Wasn't it Guru Nanak Dev ji himself who changed doing lavan around havan to around ptothi sahib? I think it's mentioned in janam sakhis  maybe? 

Also lots of our ancestors were not strictly Sikhs so we shouldn't go by what they did. They just followed the local Brahmans and what their ancestors had done. And did not want to change to the new way of sikhi. 

Any even if the modern anand karaj is not puratan, is there any reason to go back? The modern anand karaj was made during 1900s when the Sikhs were going thru a literary revolution similar to Europe's great enlightenment when lots of lost and hidden manuscripts were brought to light and the Sikhs had khalsa diwaans where Sikhs reached a consensus on maryada ardaas etc.

Why would you want to bring back practices that tie us closer to Hindus or sonatas dharam? Then what's the use of sikhi? We might as well become sanatan if we think there's nothing wrong with sanantan dharam. And all the updates and changes the Gurus and Sikhs did were not needed. 

 

 

On 4/27/2022 at 10:11 PM, Jacfsing2 said:

Non-Amritdharis didn't do Anand Karaj around Guru Sahib, and with the rise of old school Nirankaris under Baba Dayalthe Anand Karaj became popularized among non-amritdharis as well. The idea that Sikhs got married around a fire happened because lots of Sikhs who joined from the Hindu panth still continued this practice of havan marriage.

I mean the reason Hindus get married around a fire is because that's one of their devi devte, to us it's just a fire. Naamdharis still do this fire marriage because they view Sikhi as a sect of Hindus.

I know that Baba Dyal Das' son mass introduced Anand Karaj ceremony to sehajdharis, and then the Nirankari sect performed first Anand Karaj around Guru Granth Sahib which was probably at a stage when Nirankaris were mostly keshdharis or perhaps amrit-dharis too. I am unsure at which stage Guru Granth Sahib started getting mass printed in pad-ched saroop. It would probably have been difficult to do modern style Anand Karaj when there were only a few hand written Guru Granth Sahib saroop, such as during Guru Gobind Singh's time there was literally only one Guru Granth Sahib saroop for the whole panth at one point alongside a few Adi Granth saroop. 

Therefore it would have been really difficult for most sikhs, even most Singhs to do an Anand karaj around Guru Granth Sahib before mass printing during colonial times, and there would have been a different ceremon back then. Even today, if someone wants to perform Anand Karaj around larrivaar saroop of Guru Granth Sahib, they would need to locate where larrivaar saroop is prakash! Maybe it was only Nihang Singhs or few Singhs who performed Anand Karaj in front of Guru Granth Sahib. I guess Nihnag Singhs took Granth Sahib saroop with them wherever they went so they can do prakash anywhere?

On 4/28/2022 at 2:04 AM, dharamyudh said:

Interesting. According to Suraj Prakash, SatGuru Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib Ji Maharaj had a Haavan wedding. 

 

On 5/8/2022 at 4:32 PM, Singh375 said:

Wedding ceremony is just about 2 people making a commitment to stay loyal to each other until death do them part.

Hindu tradition of walking around fire is because fire is considered an ultimate power (cos it can burn anything). So it’s supposed to remind you if you break the promise you’ll get punished (in hell).

In Sikhi we make the promise in presence of shabad-guru, cos that’s our everything

So the most important thing is the ‘promise’. You know like in court people have to hold a bible and promise to tell truth. But for a Sikh they could hold a gutka sahib. It gives the court faith this person will be honest as they’re swearing upon the thing most sacred to them. 

Everything else - rituals, spending vast sums of money, ‘2 souls become 1’ is complete rubbish and fairy tales. 

Exactly this! 

I also thought it may have been a fire ceremony and have heard some Nihang Singhs practise this, but also below states anand Karaj in front of Guru Granth Sahib. Intrestingly though, they seem to use Anand Sahib and not laavan in this description!

‘Among the religious orders of the Sikhs in the Panjab, the Akalis may be said to preserve whatever remain of the customs of the last Guru. When they marry, they do not like the other Sikhs, call a Brahmin to perform the nuptial ceremony. A Sikh priest is summoned. He reads the Anand, or epithalamium, composed by Guru Amards. A sheet is then thrown over the bride bridegroom, the well-known chadar-dalna marriage ceremony of the Panjab. The holy Granth is used as a witness on the occasion, instead of fire, which is an invariable concomitant of Hindu marriage ceremonies, Karaparshad is then offered to the Granth, and distributed among the guests, after which the ceremony is complete. The Sikh priest, who has favoured me with this information, considers this marriage knot superior to the elaborate one of the Hindus. It is cheap, simple, and equally efficacious.’
‘Western Image of the Sikh Religion, A Source Book, edited by Darshan Singh, Pa. 279-280