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Also, can we also touch on the fact that Havans were a common practice amongst Puratan Sikhs? It seems like the Puratan sampardas (Nirmala, Udaasi, Namdhaari, and Nihangs) have preserved the practice. However, it's only really the Nihangs that evolved and adopted the modern Anand Karaj despite doing havans for other reasons such as jaaps of Brahm Kavach. 

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3 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Non-Amritdharis didn't do Anand Karaj around Guru Sahib, and with the rise of old school Nirankaris under Baba Dayalthe Anand Karaj became popularized among non-amritdharis as well. The idea that Sikhs got married around a fire happened because lots of Sikhs who joined from the Hindu panth still continued this practice of havan marriage.

I mean the reason Hindus get married around a fire is because that's one of their devi devte, to us it's just a fire. Naamdharis still do this fire marriage because they view Sikhi as a sect of Hindus.

Interesting. According to Suraj Prakash, SatGuru Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib Ji Maharaj had a Haavan wedding. 

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7 hours ago, dharamyudh said:

Interesting. According to Suraj Prakash, SatGuru Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib Ji Maharaj had a Haavan wedding. 

Guru Sahib probably did, but again we can't do everything that Guru Sahib did and assume it's ok for us to do the same. We follow the Gurus hukam as Sikhs, not copying what he does, and Guru Sahib's hukam is "Anand viah binaa grahist nahee karnaa" (Not having marital affairs without Anand Karaj)

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On 5/13/2022 at 8:06 PM, ipledgeblue said:

I know that Baba Dyal Das' son mass introduced Anand Karaj ceremony to sehajdharis, and then the Nirankari sect performed first Anand Karaj around Guru Granth Sahib which was probably at a stage when Nirankaris were mostly keshdharis or perhaps amrit-dharis too. I am unsure at which stage Guru Granth Sahib started getting mass printed in pad-ched saroop. It would probably have been difficult to do modern style Anand Karaj when there were only a few hand written Guru Granth Sahib saroop, such as during Guru Gobind Singh's time there was literally only one Guru Granth Sahib saroop for the whole panth at one point alongside a few Adi Granth saroop. 

Therefore it would have been really difficult for most sikhs, even most Singhs to do an Anand karaj around Guru Granth Sahib before mass printing during colonial times, and there would have been a different ceremon back then. Even today, if someone wants to perform Anand Karaj around larrivaar saroop of Guru Granth Sahib, they would need to locate where larrivaar saroop is prakash! Maybe it was only Nihang Singhs or few Singhs who performed Anand Karaj in front of Guru Granth Sahib. I guess Nihnag Singhs took Granth Sahib saroop with them wherever they went so they can do prakash anywhere?

Aam Sikh has never been Amritdhari, which is why if our ancestors weren't Amritdhari from the start we get these sakhis where they got married by the fire, and even if they were eventually Amritdhari by either converting to Sikhi from Hinduism or by being a sehajdhari, it's not like they got remarried according to Sikhi. When Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Angad Dev Ji and Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Amar Das Ji became Sikhs it's highly unlikely that they would remarry their spouses according to Sikh rules. The thing is once someone is married the religious ceremony they performed would matter less than the actual fact that they were husband and wife. (But either way, those who are Sikhs should marry according to the Guru's hukam).

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On 4/27/2022 at 8:05 PM, Not2Cool2Argue said:

Wasn't it Guru Nanak Dev ji himself who changed doing lavan around havan to around ptothi sahib? I think it's mentioned in janam sakhis  maybe? 

Also lots of our ancestors were not strictly Sikhs so we shouldn't go by what they did. They just followed the local Brahmans and what their ancestors had done. And did not want to change to the new way of sikhi. 

Any even if the modern anand karaj is not puratan, is there any reason to go back? The modern anand karaj was made during 1900s when the Sikhs were going thru a literary revolution similar to Europe's great enlightenment when lots of lost and hidden manuscripts were brought to light and the Sikhs had khalsa diwaans where Sikhs reached a consensus on maryada ardaas etc.

Why would you want to bring back practices that tie us closer to Hindus or sonatas dharam? Then what's the use of sikhi? We might as well become sanatan if we think there's nothing wrong with sanantan dharam. And all the updates and changes the Gurus and Sikhs did were not needed. 

 

Yes Guru Nanak Dev Ji started it around a written Mool Mantar (maybe was a Pothi)?? Very first time with 4 Laavans and in front of Sangat. 

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