amrit is essentail 4 salvation.

[machete]

i think it is so wrong and manmat when people say you dont need amrit in order to obtain salvation. even sri guru gobind singh ji had to take amrit. that should simply answer everything. without amrit u can not become a gurmukh, salvation is only obtained by gurmukhs. amrit is away to obtain guru jis blessing and ur promise to devote ur life to guru ji. i.e the panj pairyea gave their head for amrit. in the same concept you have to devote ur life to guru ji.

plz dont listen to people who think salvation is possible without amrit.

"take amrit prepared with double edged sword, so that ur life becomes sucessful and blessed".

bhai gurdas ji 2 // 41

amrit is distributed by panj pairyea who are the physical form of guru ji.

if the amrit is being prepared by kirpan and not khanda, do not take it. if there is a women acting as 1 of the 5, then again do not take it. only amrit which is prepared by 5 singhs and is mixed with the khanda(double-edged sword) is to be taken.

in sikhi women and men are equal, but guru ji gave 5 singhs the order to distribute amrit. if i give u a cd with 5 tracks on it. in order to reproduce the same cd, u cant change any of the tracks can u. the same concept works here. sri guru gobind singh ji mixed the water with a khanda, hence Khande da pahul, it is not known as kirpan da pahul. it is only amrit if it is prepared in the same way as sri guru gobind singh ji prepared amrit 4 the first time.

[Akaal Purakh Di Fauj]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

if there is a women acting as 1 of the 5, then again do not take it.

WHAT!!!! :wub: @ @ @ @ @

Waheguroo Jee Ka

Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

this may have been discussed already but in our city there was a huge bru ha ha about women being part of the panj pyaare in a nagar kirtan.

the two sides had the following arguments:

for women:

-the Gurus did not discriminate against females

-Women after taking amrit are also khalsa

-panj pyaare means five sikh females or males

against women:

-the panj pyaare represent the original panj pyaare who were all men

-history cannot be changed, if women wanted they could have answered Guru Sahib's call for five heads

-this is just a plot to create controversy.

I have my own views but would like to hear this forum's view especially since there are some real good singhs and singhniyah here who know their stuff.

again if this has already been discussed, my bad.

-peace

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

oh yeah by the way, this was so serious that Jathedar Vedanti was called, he was in New York at the time, but Jathedar Vedanti said there was nothing he could do, not surprised but just an example of how serious things got.

[japmans]

yeah... don't you remember?/ sikhi preaches that men are better then women!! and that women suck... and that men rock..don't you remember?

[machete]

guru ji gave permission to 5 singhs to distribute amrit. he called 5 singhs his pyhsical body. hence the name panj piaryea. it is not panj piaryeaeeh. Guru ji said panj pairyea meaning 5 singhs. guru ji didnt say 4 singhs and 1 kuar. he didn,t say 5 kuars. this doesnt show discrimination. it is the way it is. u could say all the guru,s were men. but that is the way it is. the same principle applies to this argument. there should not be an argument, people should just accept things the way they are. :wub:

[Nama Singh]

yeh woteva. The body is a means of transportation whilst in this mortal life. To gain mukhti, we aim to go beyond this body.. beyond our mind.

I think ure wrong. Amrit is amrit yes... whether its given by a certain jatha or a certain gender. Tell me, does that mean that all the panj pyaare have to change their names to the same names that the panj pyaarae had? They cant be a "gorah" Sikh? People with disabilities cant be one of the panj pyaarae? People who are blind cant give amrit?

[Sher Khalsa]

no where in SGGS ji does it say men and women are equal , especially in the western sense...

all guru ji says is we have to respect women cuz from them we are bron, kigns are born, etc...

we are equal in the sense that both genders can achieve mukti...

but 'feminists' take it to far,,, wats next are we gonna change waheguru ji ka khalsa , waheguru ji ki fateh, tooo waheguru ji KI khalsI, waheguru ji KI FATEHI...

or will ppl say that the bibi should lead 2 lama, at an anand karaj, and the man the other 2...

[GABROO KHALISTAN DAH]

woah sikh soldier -edited-

i don't c why a woman can't lead the llama?

remember when mai bhago ji led hundred of SINGHS into battle.

remember when all the bibiyan where grinding flour with garlands made out of their children?

i think woman are better if not equal to men, can a man carry a baby?

what that mr admin?

-what?

[no_one]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

For God's sake, people, don't argue about things that have already been argued about several times - it's a waste of time (hint hint, Admins).

machete -- you coming on here and preaching those beliefs (not to say they are wrong - thousands of Gursikhs think they are right, including Sant Jarnail Singh Jee Khalsa Bhinderawale) is the same thing as an AKJ Singh coming on here and saying "ok guys, keski is a kakaar and all of you should accept that." Even if a Singh believes that, he's smart enough not to come on a forum and try to enforce those beliefs, knowing that it will spur arguments.

People keep their beliefs to themselves, rather than trying to start conflict. I mean honestly, hasn't this issue been discussed enough now? (on other forums too).

In my humble opinion, it's all a waste of time arguing about anything like this. Just follow the Maryada YOUR Panj gave you.

Humble opinion. Take it as that please.

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!