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SevadaarEKhalsa

Christians In Punjab

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[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbLjqfEn4D0&feature=related[/media]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emyJMkPV4fA&feature=related[/media]


Why are we turning a blind eye to all this?

There were 292,800 Christians in whole Punjab in 2001 (census).

Now there are 900,000. Thats what they say, exaggerated figures? Yes maybe, but their numbers have atleast doubled.

[quote]
"In Punjab, there are around 900,000 Christian voters and the largest chunk, 17 percent, reside in Gurdaspur district. Here their number is over 150,000. After Gurdaspur, maximum Christian voters are in Amritsar, Ferozepur and Ludhiana districts," Kanwal Bakshi, state president of Punjab's United Christian Front (UCF), told IANS.
[url="http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/politics/a-punjab-seat-where-christians-are-important_100190156.html"]http://www.thaindian..._100190156.html[/url]
[/quote]

One guy named Harbhajan Sion (in videos too) alone convert 2800 people from his village.


[quote]
John Dayal, secretary general of the All India Christian Council, said there is a new openness to Christ in the state.

"Punjab has had a traumatic 20 years," Dayal said. "Currently there is … joblessness, drug addiction, easy money, and division between Hindus and Sikhs. In search of a path, people are turning to Christ for the healing of body, mind, and soul."

.............

Over the last several years, several thousand Sikhs, many of them Dalits, have left Sikhism for Christianity. In April, 200 Dalits converted in the town of Moga. Another 48 converted in Amritsar, the province's capital and home to Sikhism's revered Golden Temple. Precise overall figures are not available, however. Many Sikhs who convert keep their ethnic names, so tracking them is difficult. More importantly, Christians do not publicize mass conversions for fear of inciting local wrath, which is becoming a problem.
[url="http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2003/july/16.24.html"]http://www.christian...july/16.24.html[/url]


[/quote]


[quote]
Pastor apologises to Sikh Panth, averts communal confrontation.

Kapurthala, Feb 15 2004 (PTI) A pastor running a church in the district Sunday tendered a written apology to the Akal Takht and the Sikh Panth [b]for making derogatory remarks against the Sikh Gurus and Sikh holy book Guru Granth Sahib[/b], averting a possible confrontation between the two communties.

[b]Pastor Harbhajan Singh of Khojewal village[/b] of northern Indian state of Punjab also postponed Sunday's prayer meeting at his church.

Kapurthala police had registered a criminal case against Harbhajan Singh and two others for distributing objectionable posters against the Sikh Gurus in the villages on February 2.

Agitated over this, Sikh youths had entered the open … [/quote]
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What do you expect when Sikhs are turning people away and putting other's down every chance they get. It can be for any reason, their poor financial status, or their 'lower caste', or the fact that they may not have good education etc. Whatever the case may be, every human deserves some respect, which as I have personally seen is not given to many, especially the poor. Have you seen the condition of servants in Punjabi homes? They are treated like dogs! When someone is in need for help, we turn a blind eye to it. You don't have to go far to see this, it has happened on this very forum many times in the past.

On the other hand, the Christian organizations are actively seeking out the poor and needy, offering them a helping hand. Think about it, if you were in terrible financial shape and had a hard time putting food on the table and some Christian person came an gave you help, it would naturally make you curious about Christianity.

All we Sikhs are doing is using all the money we have to build big gurudwara buildings, instead, we should be helping the poor and the needy. 99.99% of the population does not care about religion when they can not put food in their stomach and roof over their head. Every thing else is secondary to roti (food), kapra (clothing), makaan (housing).
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[color="#000080"][b]i use to occasionally watch glory tv and i have found there are many specific anti sikh elements to their preaching. Interesting how Amritsar Sahib is one of the maximum christian voting districts.

on glory tv i have found:

1. theres some sikh guy in a red turban who talks of how pointless it was for him growing up around sikh influences. this guy still keeps a red phag but is clean shaven... i think he has his own show on there.

2. there was a christian music video, at the end of it, there was a indian christian with his hands together and he said "mera muj meh kich nahi jo kich hai so tera".

3. on glory tv they aired some jesus film and dubbed punjabi over it and used terms like "kirat karna", "vand chhako", "amritvela", and... (this ones a killa!)... "akaal purakh da hukam".

4 they sometimes have some whtie woman talking at various different locations saying how she married a sikh who use to believe in "recarnation and all the rest of it" and how he found christianity through her

5. theres a priest called "onkar singh" who usually weares white kurta pajama... they have purposely left his name a sikh name, and when he does aardas they dont do it christian style, they do it sikh style, standing, hands together and again, they use alot of gurmat terminology. at the end of their aardas they do their equivilent of a jaikara (after they say amen).

6. theres certainly other things, but i didnt watch the channel 24/7... just occasionally... and recently (in the last year or so) i aint watched the channel fullstop. back in the day i tried calling in to afew of their programs but i could never get through.

it doesnt supprise me at all that "A pastor running a church in the district Sunday tendered a written apology to the Akal Takht and the Sikh Panth [b]for making derogatory remarks against the Sikh Gurus and Sikh holy book Guru Granth Sahib[/b], averting a possible confrontation between the two communties.".


On the contrary, sikhs never target groups of poeple (or even individuals) to convert.... nor do we diss the founders of their faiths whilst preaching to sangat.
[/b][/color]
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I know, thats why I support Khalsa Aid and there work that prevents poor Sikhs to take such drastic steps. But we keep crying about Hinduisation but forget growing Islam (due to Gujjars - I have heard first hand accounts how some of them spit while passing by Gurdwaras) and Christianity in Punjab?

Paneer veer, you got it. They use Sikh appearence and vocabulary to fool uneducated masses. Their pastors usually keep the Sikhi saroop even after converting to fool us. They use Satsang instead of congregation, Satguru for Jesus etc.

Then there are the so called lower caste people who also have gotten into this trap and adopted Ravidasia 'religion' instead of Sikhi.

One suggestion; When you go India, don't offer more than 100rs while matha tekking. Use the remaining money to give to the poor for education, etc.
Afterall Gareeb da Munh, Guru Di Golak.
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Oh Twadi hits the nail on the head. Sikhs in Panjab, the Gurdwars care more about keeping maya to themselves and not going to help/assist poor people who need the help. Christians see this, and they don't need a certain caste to recruit [neither does Sikhi, but being the cretins we are we adore caste separation]. Sikhs need to do what I said in the former.

Fateh Ji.
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has anyone seen derren browns miracles for sale, that guy exposed these so called faith healers. i tired to find the link but couldn't found it was broadcasted by channel4, it should be on channel4.com but not available not on even youtube its removed
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i found a link, we should translate and distribute in punjab
http://www.sockshare.com/file/7B7CEECAA803A1B5#
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Anyone want to work on this and start translating?
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[size="3"][color="#0000ff"]There is also an asian christian radio station on sky which spreads the bible using bhangra singing with tumbi and dhol or bollywood tunes and much of it's preaching is just a copy of a Giani at a Gurughar.

[url="http://www.radiokhushkhabri.com"]http://www.radiokhushkhabri.com[/url][/color][/size]
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Christian missionaries are trying very hard. They're sending oriental people around Punjab from the states. I know a few people who are part of some youth group and go with the aim of converting people.
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Sant Jarnail Singh Khalsa Brindrawale's own brother Captain Singh saw 5000 people take Amrit from Sant Ji (as part of the Panj Piyare) in 1 day! If we are given another leader like Sant Ji all we be in Chardi Kala!

In the meantime, we could send in the White American and Russian Sikhs to bring the brown Punjabis back into their priceless Sikhi.

Good luck to the real Christians and anyone who wants to join them.

However, I have not seen anything in the above vidoes to suggest that all those starring on stage weren't simply the Pastor's own paid people. That also includes the lady in the second video who drags her feet, shakes, cries, and makes areoplane noises! It's nice to think of anyone joining any religion becuase they are inspired by it. But the cheap tricks like those above, to [b]con[/b] people into a religion, are just plain sad!
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[color="#000080"][b]existing religions are allowerd to preach in punjab, new religions are alowed to be created - this is fine...... but when these groups use and abuse gurbani, gurmat terms, sikh attire and manipulate sikh sangat they are infact challanging the sikhs.[/b][/color]
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[quote name='Paneer Monster' timestamp='1307749401' post='501417']
[color="#000080"][b]existing religions are allowerd to preach in punjab, new religions are alowed to be created - this is fine...... but when these groups use and abuse gurbani, gurmat terms, sikh attire and manipulate sikh sangat they are infact challanging the sikhs.[/b][/color]
[/quote]
Agreed, on top of that there are subtle and very real attacks on Sikhs. The government is bought out by criminal cults that have no other intention than money and tryign to hurt Sikhs.
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We already don't have a big majority in Punjab, it was 59% in 2001. If it continues like this within ten years we shall be a minority: 35% Sikh (that too mostly by name), 50% Hindu (bhaiyya influx), 10% Christian (high conversion rate of poorer sections of society) and 5% muslim (gujjar influx).

SGPC have an annual budget of over 1000 crore rupees, where do they spend it? They eat half of it, and to fool the masses they (unnecessarily) renovate some Gurdwaras (destroying the original marble etc).
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@ SevadaarEKhalsa - Wow. Is that how much income the SGPC generates? If our Gurus were amongst us today (you know what I mean), would they allow the caretakers of our Gurudwaras to hoard money and waste it on God knows what, instead of distributing it amongst the poor and helping society? Yet they still have the gall to call themselves true Sikhs and take lofty positions of authority in Sikhi? Shame on them and they WILL have to answer for all their misdeeds when their lives are over.

Why can we identify these issues and causes to help our fellow Sikh brothers and sisters, yet those who are in a position to do something seem oblivious to it all? Are we wrong? Are we missing out on some vital detail that means we're not grasping the truth of the situation? The mind boggles.
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As a British Sikh, this whole 'christian' thing is difficult to understand given the fact that here, and throughout Europe, Christianity is more of a museum relic rather than an actual functioning religion in existence. Probably even more so in England where even the supreme archbishop publicly states that he can't state for sure that god exists. Here, Christianity is seen more as the religion of the new immigrants from Africa. In wider society, seen as a religion for those that are not too clever, to put it mildly. So......when we read about its spread in Punjab it surprises us. Coz we didn't even realise there were still any christians around. Now this is where our American and Canadian friends fit into the story. We here in England go on about the spread of Islam and never mention Christianity because lets face it, christianity is as dead as a dodo here. But in north America Christianity is actually not a museum piece.....its actually still alive. Very much alive. It is them that are spreading christianity in Punjab. In Punjab, they find likeminded not very well read, not very well cultured, not very educated peoples. I see it all the time in Canada. Coming from England its one of the first things you notice because its so alien to us. Punjabi Christian churches all over the place. So so many of them. The Englandians keep going on about sikh girls in the UK converting to Islam but how many times do you hear about north American Sikhs complaining about Sikh girls converting to Christianity......even though their christianity conversions outnumber the uk islam conversions by 100 to one. You probably all noticed how that politician Nikki Hayley (formerly Randahwa) makes a big deal of her christianity to get elected.........whereas in England, it would be political suicide for a politician to proclaim his christianity. He'd never get elected because everyone would think he's an <banned word filter activated>. Now....I realise that things are different in the UK. That kind of Punjabi christianity would never be allowed here. The local Sikhs AND muslims AND hindus would kick up an almighty fuss....and the authorities, who don't like christianity anyway, would shut these punjabi churches down immediately in the interests of social cohesion.
But....our Americam and Canadian friends have done nothing to check this growth........these newly converted christians now fullfill their duty as missionaries by going to Punjab......and we're all paying the price. You wanna sort this problem....then you go to the source of the problem. The source of the problem is in Vancouver and Toronto.
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[quote name='Kaljugi' timestamp='1307784276' post='501435']
@ SevadaarEKhalsa - Wow. Is that how much income the SGPC generates? If our Gurus were amongst us today (you know what I mean), would they allow the caretakers of our Gurudwaras to hoard money and waste it on God knows what, instead of distributing it amongst the poor and helping society? Yet they still have the gall to call themselves true Sikhs and take lofty positions of authority in Sikhi? Shame on them and they WILL have to answer for all their misdeeds when their lives are over.

Why can we identify these issues and causes to help our fellow Sikh brothers and sisters, yet those who are in a position to do something seem oblivious to it all? Are we wrong? Are we missing out on some vital detail that means we're not grasping the truth of the situation? The mind boggles.
[/quote]

Yes that their income. Only Harmandar Sahib has over 2 lac devotees daily, if they even give 5 rupees each it makes it 10 lac a day. And most of the NRIs donate a LOT. Heres an example:

[quote]Amritsar: The Managing Director of the Singapore-based Thukral Group of Companies, Arvinder Singh, and Sarabjit Singh, offered 8 gold watches to the Manager of the Sri Harmandir Sahib Gurudwara, Harbans Singh Malli. The Information officers of the Gurudwara, Jasvinder Singh Jassi and Gurbachan Singh were also present.[/quote]

They will have to pay for their misdeed but we have got to stop this system, is this any better than the Masand system Guru Ji abolished? Don't donate at Indian Gurdwaras anymore, or donate just a minimal amount. Donate to poor Sikhs/Shaheedi parivaars and organisation working for Panth.

[quote name='West London Singh' timestamp='1307787505' post='501437']
As a British Sikh, this whole 'christian' thing is difficult to understand given the fact that here, and throughout Europe, Christianity is more of a museum relic rather than an actual functioning religion in existence. Probably even more so in England where even the supreme archbishop publicly states that he can't state for sure that god exists. Here, Christianity is seen more as the religion of the new immigrants from Africa. In wider society, seen as a religion for those that are not too clever, to put it mildly. So......when we read about its spread in Punjab it surprises us. Coz we didn't even realise there were still any christians around. Now this is where our American and Canadian friends fit into the story. We here in England go on about the spread of Islam and never mention Christianity because lets face it, christianity is as dead as a dodo here. But in north America Christianity is actually not a museum piece.....its actually still alive. Very much alive. It is them that are spreading christianity in Punjab. In Punjab, they find likeminded not very well read, not very well cultured, not very educated peoples. I see it all the time in Canada. Coming from England its one of the first things you notice because its so alien to us. Punjabi Christian churches all over the place. So so many of them. The Englandians keep going on about sikh girls in the UK converting to Islam but how many times do you hear about north American Sikhs complaining about Sikh girls converting to Christianity......even though their christianity conversions outnumber the uk islam conversions by 100 to one. You probably all noticed how that politician Nikki Hayley (formerly Randahwa) makes a big deal of her christianity to get elected.........whereas in England, it would be political suicide for a politician to proclaim his christianity. He'd never get elected because everyone would think he's an <banned word filter activated>. Now....I realise that things are different in the UK. That kind of Punjabi christianity would never be allowed here. The local Sikhs AND muslims AND hindus would kick up an almighty fuss....and the authorities, who don't like christianity anyway, would shut these punjabi churches down immediately in the interests of social cohesion.
But....our Americam and Canadian friends have done nothing to check this growth........these newly converted christians now fullfill their duty as missionaries by going to Punjab......and we're all paying the price. You wanna sort this problem....then you go to the source of the problem. The source of the problem is in Vancouver and Toronto.
[/quote]

Your right.
Christianity is dying in (West) Europe, but as you pointed out very much functioning in Northern America and even Australia. Only the other day my friend from Canada was telling how 2 Punjabi Christian aunties went from door to door trying to win converts.

I saw a poster some time ago from Australia which had a photo of a Sikh couple converting to Christianity with the title 'from Sikhdom' to freedom' - proper Behzti.


The thing is that our communities have different problems all over - we can't just say that one religion is our enemy. We have to defend our beloved Sikhi from all sides.
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[quote name='West London Singh' timestamp='1307787505' post='501437']
As a British Sikh, this whole 'christian' thing is difficult to understand given the fact that here, and throughout Europe, Christianity is more of a museum relic rather than an actual functioning religion in existence. Probably even more so in England where even the supreme archbishop publicly states that he can't state for sure that god exists. Here, Christianity is seen more as the religion of the new immigrants from Africa. In wider society, seen as a religion for those that are not too clever, to put it mildly. So......when we read about its spread in Punjab it surprises us. Coz we didn't even realise there were still any christians around. Now this is where our American and Canadian friends fit into the story. We here in England go on about the spread of Islam and never mention Christianity because lets face it, christianity is as dead as a dodo here. But in north America Christianity is actually not a museum piece.....its actually still alive. Very much alive. It is them that are spreading christianity in Punjab. In Punjab, they find likeminded not very well read, not very well cultured, not very educated peoples. I see it all the time in Canada. Coming from England its one of the first things you notice because its so alien to us. Punjabi Christian churches all over the place. So so many of them. The Englandians keep going on about sikh girls in the UK converting to Islam but how many times do you hear about north American Sikhs complaining about Sikh girls converting to Christianity......even though their christianity conversions outnumber the uk islam conversions by 100 to one. You probably all noticed how that politician Nikki Hayley (formerly Randahwa) makes a big deal of her christianity to get elected.........whereas in England, it would be political suicide for a politician to proclaim his christianity. He'd never get elected because everyone would think he's an <banned word filter activated>. Now....I realise that things are different in the UK. That kind of Punjabi christianity would never be allowed here. The local Sikhs AND muslims AND hindus would kick up an almighty fuss....and the authorities, who don't like christianity anyway, would shut these punjabi churches down immediately in the interests of social cohesion.
But....our Americam and Canadian friends have done nothing to check this growth........these newly converted christians now fullfill their duty as missionaries by going to Punjab......and we're all paying the price. You wanna sort this problem....then you go to the source of the problem. The source of the problem is in Vancouver and Toronto.
[/quote]



Khalsa Aid is actively providing financial support for the poor Sikhs in rural Punjab. The Christians, Rada Swamis,Ram Rahims and all other are taking FULL advantage of our in-fighting over internal differences. Khalsa Aid has openly invited Pracharaks from different Jathas to set up Prachar centres in their local areas of Punjab but nobody has come forward. We can blame everyone else but unless we start to take the first step by providing financial aid for the poor Sikhs we will remain static and the anti-Sikh elements very active.
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[quote name='KHALSA AID' timestamp='1307796303' post='501444']
Khalsa Aid is actively providing financial support for the poor Sikhs in rural Punjab. The Christians, Rada Swamis,Ram Rahims and all other are taking FULL advantage of our in-fighting over internal differences. Khalsa Aid has openly invited Pracharaks from different Jathas to set up Prachar centres in their local areas of Punjab but nobody has come forward. We can blame everyone else but unless we start to take the first step by providing financial aid for the poor Sikhs we will remain static and the anti-Sikh elements very active.
[/quote]

[color="#000080"][b]firstly, i commend Khalsa Aid for their undying efforts in all fields of seva they have, are and plan to undertake.

would it be a good idea to make the request to pracharaks again with explicit emphasis on the need, and expressing that the responces you recieved will be published on the khalsa aid website? the pracharaks / jathabandi's that decline should be named.
[/b][/color]
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This is not a new problem in punjab. This been going on since 1840's but the recent sudden surge of punjabi/ex-sikh pastor is the tool of american based business model missionary groups.

I would say there were few and extremely low level missionary activities during 70's/80's and 90's and recent high level of christian activities is because they don't keep faith in sikhi because their parents never taught them nor SGPC took any care about teaching sikhi to these rural ppl. Sikh dharam is not easy to understand and it requires great effort and energy to follow this lifestyle and it is simple that some ppl do not have capability to follow. HOwever, everybody needs to be given a chance to know the treasure of our gurus and then it is upto them whether to follow or not.

[b]There are few churches in Punjab since early 1900's and they run many excellent schools and hospitals in punjab and THEY ARE NICE.. They are of catholic background and they do such degrading paid actors to convince/deceive or fool ppl around. [/b]Don't confuse Catholics with these drama fake ex-sikh pastors. In US we have these similar type of shows coming 24/7 on tv channels (TBN etc). In recent news article of India of Today, catholics of india did strongly protest against such tactics used by american funded missionaries because indian caatholics believe that such stage dramas and blackmailing ppl by deceiving methods will create strong rift among religious groups in india.

Should we sikhs be worried about this?

Yes and No. Yes is because we need gullible people not to become victims of fraud preachers. No is because we need to put our house in order first before going out to tackle other problems. How can we defend ourself when whopping 80% of us who claims to be strong sikh in punjab do not follow the orders of guru sahib jee of keeping basic kesh rehat. First, we need build our defense strong.. once we accomplish that then only we can go ahead with offense.

I don't even wanna comment on khalsa aid post... going in circles. Ludhiana missionaries and those drama christian missionaries are doing the same damage to panth... don't agree? just watch and see what lies ahead.

[quote][b]the responces you recieved will be published on the khalsa aid website? the pracharaks / jathabandi's that decline should be named.[/b][/quote]
i would love to see that list with contact where sikh pracharak jathabandis declined offer to accept $ or pounds lol.. nobody in punjab decline financial offers and everybody knows that..
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Doesn't change the fact that we have to help poorer Sikhs, stop filling corrupts SGPC/DSGMC pockets.

British had very little succes in our Punjab, in 100 years they could only make 1.5% Christians. In Pak Punjab about 3%. But now, their numbers have tripled in the past 10 years, and it is not only due to the dramas enacted by these pastors. It is also due to continous discrimination by Sikhs, our failure to leave the caste system behind. Our inability to help our brethren in need.

I wonder why the following was never implemented in Punjab:

[quote][size="3"][b][font="Garamond"]Conversion spree in Punjab[/font][/b][/size] [font="Garamond"][size="3"]
Author: Rajesh Deol[/size][/font] [font="Garamond"][size="3"]Publication: Deccan Herald[/size][/font] [font="Garamond"][size="3"]Date: March 20, 2003[/size][/font] [font="Garamond"][size="3"]URL: [url="http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/mar20/n3.asp"]http://www.deccanher...ld/mar20/n3.asp[/url][/size][/font][font="Garamond"][size="3"]A spate of Sikh conversions to Christianity in Punjab, particularly in the border belt adjoining Pakistan, has rocked the Sikh community provoking a furore among the religious and political outfits. The Sikh representative party, the Akali Dal, is now seeking an Anti Conversion Act in Punjab on the pattern of Tamil Naidu.[/size][/font][/quote]

More than 5 Indian states have issued such laws to prevent Hindus from converting to Islam and Christanity, but our Akalis are still sleeping.

See how low they can go to win converts:

[quote]Christians interrupt Sikh Funeral in the US, seek converts
Posted March 4, 2004
San Jose, Feb. 29, 2004

The American GI Forum Hall was packed with hundreds of mourners as members of the huge Sikh community of the Bay Area gathered for the funeral service of Hari Singh and Satnam Singh, two of the three people, who were killed by a gunman in a high-profile attack the previous Sunday. Speaker after speaker came up to address the grieved for their lost loved ones and prayed for their families.

However, members of Indian Christians United (ICU) took this advantage of the Sikh community in mourning as an opportunity to convert them. Brother Younis Masih and two other Punjabi converts walked on top the stage and announced they would be playing a gospel song. Younis then walked to his harmonium, one sat down with a tabla, and the third held a Bible.

In the following minutes, the Christian converts inappropriately began singing to Christian songs, preaching the virtues of Christianity over Sikhism and read two passages from the Bible. Younis spoke in fluent Punjabi in an attempt to convert as many Sikhs as possible.[/quote]

BTW heres another video of their dramas (this time in Pakistan)


[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF3O3nnOkD0[/media]
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They are very well versed in conversion techniques.

Occasionally we have a group visit my house. They are very cheerful and speak in punjabi,
their bible is in punjabi and they will read from it in punjabi. They never say they are
trying to convert or anything like this.

First they speak to you on the door step.
Then they will ask if they can come in and sit and have a chat.
Once inside they will invite you to one of their meetings.
If you go to their meeting you are more or less hooked.

At no piont do they say who they are or what they are trying to do. Very clever.

Alas, we are too embroiled in affairs of our own making. Many despise a fellow Sikh who is
not of their cast/bradhri. A few years ago a million dalits wanted to become Sikhs. We did
not have to go out looking for them they wanted to become Sikhs themselves BUT our leadership
totally ignored them, infact repelled them.

We are our own worst enemies, if it wasn't for the hand of Guru Gobind Singh Ji over the Khalsa
panth we would have dissolved a long time ago. :sad2:
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[color="#000080"]Interesting Bundha, are they jahova witnesses?[/color]

[color="#000080"]A personal experience: I live in a non Punjabi area. About two years ago we had Goreh Jahova Witnesses people visit us, I wasn't home, my sister invited them in and bluntly explained she is not interested in Jahova Witness. A couple of weeks later we had Punjabi Speaking Jahova Witnesses at our door(coincidence?). I was home, I invited them in and explained to them why I believe in Gursikhi and why I would not consider changing my faith. They went into specific details and explained that I do not need to give up my faith to take part in their congregation and how attending their congregation I would learn things that could even give me happiness and strength to confront any situation. They then gave examples of other peoples experiences. I replied my Guru gives me all the strength and happiness I need. They said they have Sikhs who attend their congregation, I explained that that has noting to do with me, in a similar way many non Sikhs visit Gurdwara's and also get fed there - this has nothing to do with them. Whilst non Sikhs are in Gurdwara, there is no differentiation made between Sikhs and non Sikhs, and we do not attempt to convert them. I explained a true Sikh would only knock at their Guru's Door. They tried telling me what Sikhi is, they didn't say anything negative about Sikhi but they were playing mind games. Also they would quote from their scriptures, I also quoted from Gurbani. Lots was said, I don't remember the details. There was no arguments, from their side nor mine… but they were very cunning in their approach. Why did they want us to attend their congregation so desperately? I shared my experience with some sangat, I later found out many punjabi's have experienced similar things in the midlands area. It is evident to note, I live in London. My advice to sangat... Do Not Give These People The Time Of Day, Unless you Are Equipt With Gursikhi. Ask them why they are hell bent on conversions, and whats in it for them if you convert. Explain that as a non christian /. jahova or wotvever else, how would that affect you when you die... then you can respond by saying In Sikhi, we believe sachkhand is not only restricted to Sikhs.
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[color="#000000"]We need to make a documentary and raise awareness about this that provides details of all the points raised and tactics used by these Christians, and explain how they specifically target Sikhs (in punjab) and explain in depth how they are trained to target the community. To do this we must:[/color]

[color="#000000"]1 - conduct some thorough research with figures and references[/color]

[color="#000000"]2 - interview sangat and their views on the issue, interview ex converts (my friend knows a bibi who converted to a Christian then came back to Sikhi we need people like this to share their experiances)[/color]

[color="#000000"]3 – organise all parts of the documentary to make it as interesting and interactive as possible[/color]

[color="#000000"]4 – get feedback on the documentary, see if we can improve it any further[/color]

[color="#000000"]5 – publish the documentary on a website in both English and Punjabi and try to promote the documentary in Sikh communities in Punjab, Delhi etc.[/color]
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These Jehovas got their booklets (Watchtower) in over 400 languages. I have often been visited by these people, and yes they are very cunning.

I agree that we should make a documentary, but will the poor Sikhs that got no medicine and education listen to that? Khalsa Aid has a video of a Nihang (you can question the level of his faith in Sikhi though) converting to Christanity simply because they paid for his medication expenses.
Awareness is needed but helping the weaker sections of society is necessary.

Half of these poor people start going to deras and others become Christians.

Therefore we shouldn't donate to SGPC but open Khalsa schools and Khalsa clinics throughout Punjab (atleast 1 per district to start, then 1 per tehsil). If SGPC even used 5% of the yearly donations we would have 1 Khalsa school per district of Punjab.
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Yes they were Jehova Witnesses.

Very cunning, always very polite, no matter what argument you put to them they push it aside and carry on with their preaching. It is really a waste of time with them as ultimately they believe that unless you follow Jesus you are going to hell.

They aim for the vunerable, the needy and one who is not too secure in his/her own faith.


Here are a few things to throw at them :

(1) Can God make a mistake? Can His prophet make a mistake, like Jesus? Then how come The Watchtower society has made predictions in the 19th Century to the 20th Century , not one not two, but dozens of predictions none of which have come true. Even one failed prophecy is one too many.

(2) Has the organization made prophecies that have not come true? Jesus warns us against those who claim to be prophets, yet whose prophecies go unfulfilled.

(3) why only 144,000 get into heaven ? At one time they taught that heaven was closed in 1881, now they believe it closed in the mid 1930s.


(4) Lying is part of "theocratic war strategy." A JW can lie to someone if they are not entitled to know the truth.

(5) The Jehovah Witnesses believe without the aid of their organization it is impossible to understand the Bible or God’s will. New World translation Bible is produced by the Watchtower.
The names of the translators and their qualifications are not available from the Watchtower Society.
Qualified Hebrew and Greek scholars have identified the New World Translation as an unreliable and corrupted translation.
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