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URGENT - Dudley Peaceful Protest BACK ON Sangat requested to attend from 12pm on Saturday 28 May 2011 Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh! In a defiant attempt to insult and play with the sentiments of the Khalsa Panth, the GNSS Gurdwara Committee, Dudley have this afternoon taken another booking for a party on Saturday 28 May 2011. The police have just confirmed this to Gurdwara Parbandhiks and a Satkaar Campaign Sevadaar. THE UK SANGAT IS REQUESTED TO ATTEND THE PEACEFUL PROTEST FROM 12PM ON SATURDAY 28 MAY 2011. ADDRESS: 118 WELLINGTON ROAD, DUDLEY DY1 1UB These games being played by the Dudley committee are not befitting of individuals who are the Custodians of a Gurdwara Sahib. PLEASE WATCH SANGAT TV NOW (7.30pm Friday evening) FOR FURTHER DETAILS. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

The actions of the Dudley committee are an absolute DISGRACE. Waheguru Ji bhalla karae on their souls. Seriously - what are they up to? If anyone doesn't know, address is: Guru Nanak Singh Sabha Gurdwara, 118 Wellington Road Dudley DY1 1UB

VaheGuru Jee, Please add 1110 ... Dhanvaad Jee modnote: Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru jaaps added Phenjeo

:khalsa2: please accept 108 jaaps :waheguru: :waheguru: modnote: Waheguru jeo, Dhanvaad Your Jaaps have been added!

Absolutely disgusting behaviour of the committee, they are an insult to the worldwide Sikh Sangat. These massands have no shame and will do beadbi of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji at any cost. Those who were sitting on the fence must now realise how wrong GNSS Gurdwara Committee are. If you feel the shame here then please attaned the peaceful protest tomorrow at 12pm sharp!

New it would be to good to be true when rally got cancelled. LETS GET TOGETHER TOMORROW & STAND AS A PANTH TO PUT THE COMMITTEE IN THEIR PLACE!!

I'm lost for words. Which is a rarity.

Please share this news via Facebook, Text messages, Phoning friends and family.

SukhdevSinghMedare Ji, please keep your comments in-line with Panthic/Sri Akal Takht Sahib Maryada. If you keep posting comments that go against this rule, or SikhSangat rules and guidelines, then Sewadars will have no other option than to put you under Moderation. Please be advised this is your first and last warning. Dhanvaad!

I would say don't do it .. Atleast keep it divided into 2 'sanchis' (volumes ) . If you bind all 4 together , it will become too fat and would be literally impossible to handle and properly read from it . Also , If you bind all 4 in one , then it becomes a "saroop" ( form ) which is to be highly respected and same respect given as given to SGGS ji . Not all people can follow protocols for satkar of SGGS . This is the reason most people keep GGS in sanchis ( volumes ) .. So , I say bind them in 2,3 or 4 volumes .

please add 151 Jeo :waheguru: modnote: Waheguru Jeo jaaps have been added

For example the one in the pictures of Baba Nand Singh Ji. Is it there just to rest the arms? does it have to be a specific height,etc. Thank you

A Major Mahan Beadbi was committed in 1984. A beadbi beyond our imaginations! Have we forgotten, or are we attending the rally on 5th June at 11am Hyde Park London to get Justice. For those Sikhs who haven't forgotten, remember, it is your duty to make sure other Sikhs haven't forgotten too! Please make all Sikhs remember and attend the rally on 5th June. Or another year will have passed by where we did nothing to get justice

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH As you may have heard Khalsa Aid Volunteers will be attempting to break a World Record for "The Most Tandem Sky Dives in 24 hours", On Sunday 10th July 2011. I will be jumping out of a aeroplane from 15000ft for charity. So I would be grateful if you could donate. All donations will be going to Khalsa Aid. Just click on the following link,all donations will be greatly appreciated Thanks very much!! VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH http://www.justgiving.com/Dalbir-Nashaan

thank you!i think it'll be nice to make it yourself, because then you'll actually use it.

Gurfateh Veerji, The stick you are referring to is called 'Bairaagan', which is basically a T-shaped support device for extended periods of meditation, or as an aid to lean on to in case one is lucky to get into Samadhi. Its length depends on the size of your torso. If you sit in lotus/half lotus position, cross your arms and stretch them forward, then the distance from the ground/seat to the stretched arms would be an ideal and comfortable length. It can also be slightly longer if one wishes to rest the chin on it too. You can make it yourself, or get it made, or get it from India

847 Sangat TV are discussing it right now!!!

Guru Sahib Jeo, in your lotus feet are the following Jaaps Seva, please accept: 2000 by Bhai Jaswinder Singh and his Singhni Ji + 270 by gupt*270 Veerji + 50 by Kaljugi Veerji + 100 other Jaaps Saadh Sangat Jeo, if for some reason you cannot come online to submit your Jaaps, kindly consider going on auto Jaaps jeo. 1, 100, 1000 it doesnt matter, Maharajs prem is beant and equal for everyone. If you want to be totally gupt then please PM me your auto Jaaps seva jeo Maharaj Kirpa Karn

I just got a text to say that they will publicly confirm and announce the protest on Sangat TV at 9pm tonight.

Any Sikhs who have just hit the forum please watch the vidoes above, they are worth watching. And then do you bit, promote the 1984 rally at Hyde Park London at 11am Sunday 5th June 2011. Please watch the videos above!

Medare, I didn't enter for your defence, but to encourage debate on the topic for a just conclusion. Whilst I appreciate poetry in general, it is naive to question the teachings of Gurbani with a few lines (if at all!), however I hope you can find your answers from Gurbani itself. If my personal opinions are to be brought to the fore, I am a staunch opposer of an Anand Karaj being conducted anywhere else than in a Gurdwara in the appropriate manner. What would you do if an Anand Karaj was to take place in a nightclub venue, during the daytime even if there is no alcohol on the premesis at the time? Would you accept that? (I dread you say yes!) It's not about whether alcohol is present, it's what the venue symbolises and what general attachments exist to the conventional form of the venue.

sukhdev, Guru ji doesnt come to us to give blessings in marriage. we have to go to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji not the other way around! Why should the king of kings come to us, we should be itching just to go and get blessings from Guru Ji! andddd where does Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji reside?.....A Gurdwara!

Okay, steady on Mr. Ekam. I'm welling up here... I hope you extend your foray into the waters of sikhsangat.com and make it a prolonged excursion. It will be interesting to hear your opinions on other issues facing our faith. Don't disappear with our friend Mr. Medare.

Why are you looking to Satkaar Sevadaars only to do Gursikhi Parchaar? It's each of our duties to do this. If we all did Kamar-Kassa and were "Jaagrat", we wouldn't have these problems. Our community has a tendency to turn a blind eye on wrong things, if it doesn't affect us individually - it's easier to say it's someone else's problem than take responsibility for resolving it. This attitude has led us to where we are now, where people like Mr Medare think because something wrong has been going on for 30 years, then it must be acceptable. JAAGO SINGHO JAAGO!

Alright, don't milk it. I admit I possibly jumped the gun. Although my intuition is telling me you're most likely a Mr. Medare supporter, I'll take your word for it that you're just here for the debate.

Mr. Ekam, if you were genuinely against the consumption of alcohol - as a Sikh - you would not entertain the notion that drinking alcohol is acceptable. The issue wouldn't even be on your radar no matter how spiritually pious the drinker is. There is nothing to debate in this instance. One glass, half a glass, half a keg, 100 kegs - it doesn't matter because it is all alcohol. Also, I apologise if my previous posts slipped into "character attack" territory. It's something I'm working to improve.

My word, you are a slippery customer aren't you? Playing both sides and then hoping someone quotes "wonderful Gurbani" in order to prove you wrong? You mean Guru Amar Das Ji's composition which clearly defines the Sikhi position on alcohol? Also, nothing was misinterpreted. If your personal opinion (as stated above) was what you truly believed, you wouldn't be suggesting that the odd glass of wine is permissable. Yes, you DID suggest that and it's clear to anyone who can read between the lines that's what you meant. Are you saying you were playing Devil's Advocate? Please. The fact that you're giving yourself enough room to "wriggle" out of statements you've made tells me all I need to know about your intentions.

Show me one edict or sandesh which says "Sikhs can drink alcohol as long as it's only one glass and / or not to excess". Don't make nonsense statements such as the above, and then sign-off with a disclaimer absolving yourself of all responsibilty under the guise of engaging in "healthy" debate.

sukhdev you seem like a caring person for ur gurdwara. buh remember this Guru Sahib wasnt made around a gurdwara...a gurdwara is built around Guru Ji! come on the side of SGGSJ and leave these masandss!

Mr Medare, What us "Liberal" to you? Liberation is awakening from the deep sleep of ignorance. Liberation results in a shift where the same mind that used to generate poison before, now generates Amrit.

Oh come on! I can't believe what I just read on the previous page. Honestly....I mean there's good and bad in every group of people, but actually trying to justify the consumption of alcohol by Sikhs is utter madness.

Good news - again the family should be congratulated for doing the right thing notwithstanding it being so close to the date of their event This again shows the power of the media. This practice although thought to have been stopped in the main in the UK was raised on the Sikh Channel last Sunday and within a few days the Satkaar Campaign was made aware of another instance of it. We still have work to do in terms of education and getting the message out to the wider Sikh community.

Sukhdev Medare Ji, You are free to express your opinions, that is why we let you carry on with your rants for the past ful week. But you are advocating drinking, which is totally unacceptable to whole Khalsa Panth jeo. You are under Quality Control from now on. Dhanvaad!

mr sukhdev "singh" i have been reading your posts for around a week now..and i cant help not reply any more. u seriously gotta be the dumbest pr**k i have met. you need to get ur head checked out n get it outa ur dudley manz back side. and if you want my name..den pm me your number, n den we can meet up and have a CIVILISED convo as punjabi men jus remember meh ta vi maa da dodh pitaaya! after ALL Means have failed it is righteous to raise the sword. thays what OUR guru ji has said! oh and this is not an aggresive reply. i just want a civilised convo. cant men just meet and talk?

I am really sorry for saying this, BUT you need help!:waheguru:

Mr Medare - seriously - what's wrong with you? If someone was looting your house for 30 years and you couldn't defend yourself, when you finally build the strength to defend yourself and your property, do yet let the looters carry on, because they been doing it for the last 30 years?

Just watched ptc news channel(badals news channel,822 on sky, will be repeated at 5pm today) Jathedar akal takht and Jathedar harnam singh dhumma(damdami taksal) attended funeral of surinder kaur badal. Jathedar harnam singh dhumma (damdami taksal) praised seva of surinder kaur badal. We all know that akal thakth jathedar and makkar(sgpc -president) would attend funeral and are always going to support badal. However jathedar harnam singh should keep distance from any political parties. All panthic jathebandiya like taksal and akj should not attend or have links with political parties and do as much parchar of gurmat. Badal also recently attended smagam of akj but jathedar bakshish singh(akj) left smagam when he found out badal would be coming. It is dissapointing to see panthic leaders supporting badal. I think definitely here in uk we are more clued up when it comes to politcs in punjab. All you have to do is type badal in google and see images of badal parwar visiting sirsa dera, ashutosh etc. Maybe somebody in uk can send jathedar harnam singh giving him information on both parties captain(congress) and badal(akali dal) on their anti-panthic stuff they have done. If jathedar harnam singh were shown pictures of badal visiting deras it would be interesting to see his response. This post is not really attack on surinder kaur. She is gone now and her karams will be judged by dharam rai. It must be difficult time for badal family, losing wife and mother is always difficult. This post is directed at panthic leaders to wake up. Ive lost hope in sgpc and akal takht, their under control of badal. Im 100% sure if sant jarnail singh bhinrdawale were here, he would of spoken out against badal(akali dal) and captain amarinder singh(congress) meeting ashutosh, jhoota sauda leaders. No way sant ji would have stayed silent. Jathedar harnam singh needs to follow example of previous jathedar Sant Jarnail Singh, be fearless and speak out against anti-panthic forces, regardless of what political postion they hold. Job of giving tankhah(punishment) for violating maryada is job of akal takht jathedar. But if jathedar is attending and speaking at programs organized by wife of sukhbir singh badal, how is he going to give tankhah?! jathedar should visit all pinds(villages) of punjab and be reviving sikhi, giving assistance to gianis, kirtania, kthavackaks who are spreading gurmat teachings. We all need to to do ardas to maharaj to free our panthic organisations, sgpc, akal takht from political parties, otherwise we will never achieve khalistan, freedom, justice etc maharaj kirpa karo!!!! make our leaders, jathedars of takhts and jatha's, into fearless lions like sant jarnail singh ji khalsa bhindrawale and bhai fauja singh ji!!!!!

First of all Dhumma is not the mukhi of Taksal. But if he was then he could never put that title aside and be just a human being. Once a person is given a title like mukhi of Taksal then it's with you until the person passes it on to the next person. Being the mukhi of taksal is not a job, where you take the uniform off at the end of the day and put on regular clothing. Its all day, all week, and all year around position where sangat gives the Jathedar respect because they follow Gurmat all day, all week, and all year around. Lastly if he went as a human being then he should take off the 5 Kakkar and dastaar before he goes. Only Sikhs wear the 5 kakkar with dastaar.

Taken from: http://www.naujawani.com/blog/Naujawani.com-launches-3000-pound-annual-student-award Submitted by Harwinder Singh... on 26 May, 2011 - 01:30 This week I have been proud to announce that Naujawani.com is establishing the ‘Kartar Singh Sarabha Student Award’ - an annual prize of £3000 for a deserving university student. This award is part of our social responsibility policy at Naujawani.com whereby we invest both our time and money into the community that we as a company serve. Since 2009, Sikh students in the UK have benefitted from our support in a variety of ways and this award is a key addition to the way in which we hope to promote Sikh Studies in higher education. Students whom have undertaken our Sikh Studies course this year are eligible to apply for the award as will be the case in 2011/2012. Tasked with writing a 10,000 word dissertation on any aspect of Sikhi, the award will be given to the writer of the most engaging submission. Students who registered on the course last autumn were made aware of the optional dissertation early on and so have been undertaking classes with the award in mind - although we did not make precise details public until this week. The prize, currently set at £3000 is intended to go towards paying the university tuition fees of a student and will be awarded before the start of the next academic year. Recent cuts by the UK Government have meant that university students could face up to £9000 tuition fees per year and so the announcement of this award is rather timely! But it has been part of our plans for some time as students who heard our introduction to the course will attest. Students of the Naujawani.com Sikh Studies course gather for the concluding session NAUJAWANI.com We hope that the award will go some way to promoting the academic study of Sikhi amongst young people and encourage greater research of the Sikh way of life at the higher education level. It is vitally important that young people have access to studying Sikh history, culture and ideology in a methodical way that mirrors the format of their studies at university. The prosperity and advancement of us as a people is instigated by the standard we demand of ourselves academically, which should come as no surprise to any Sikh because that is at the heart of what we are - students! Family, Gurdware, Gurmat camps and community classes all play a vital role in teaching young people about Sikhi, but in the field where it matters the most - academia - we as a community have failed thus far to engage and offer an objective Sikh syllabus that provides real substance. This is not a recent oversight. What we as a Sikh Diaspora largely failed to grasp in the late 20th century was the importance of reputable study and research into the Sikh way of life that has led our quam for centuries. I would argue that we have misplaced the honour bestowed on Bhai Gurdas Ji whose vaaran are the key to understanding the Guru Granth Sahib; the contributions to discourse that were given by Baba Deep Singh, Kavi Santokh Singh and Professor Sahib Singh; and the practical shape given to the teacher's path by Sant Teja Singh and Sardar Kapur Singh... all scholars of the Sikh way of life, graduates from the universities of their day. Our Sikh Studies course is one small step on the path toward rectifying this situation and I hope the announcement of the Kartar Singh Sarabha Student Award will amplify that further. We have named this prestigious award after Shaheed Kartar Singh Sarabha - the teenage hero respected by Punjabis and Sikhs everywhere for the vision he shared, the skills he had as a writer and speaker, and for his unflinching stand against oppression. The work we do at Naujawani.com embodies that same spirit; in all of our shows and commentaries we try to inspire the audience – and particularly young people – to become better at contemplating issues, articulating their thoughts and showing courage. Executed at the tender age of 19 almost a hundred years ago, the one-time UC Berkeley student is long gone, but not forgotten and a worthy role model for students to emulate. Students from the Sikh Studies course outside the British Museum where a celebratory event marked the conclusion of the course. Photographer: Gurpreet Kaur Reehal We look forward to announcing the inaugural recipient of this award in a few months time and encourage any students who wish to be considered for the award in the next academic year to enquire about the Sikh Studies course on behalf of their university Sikh society.

If a Muslim woman wants to wear the niqab then she has every right too. Nothing as been ruined for any generations. Equality means to let a person practice their religion and the quebec government is taking that right away from the Muslim woman. The niqab on whether to wear it or not is the choice of the Muslim woman. If she wants to cover her body completely it becomes her choice and no business of yours. If half naked woman can walk around in Canada, then what is the problem with woman that cover themselves up? The whole television and movie industry is based on subjecting women to be sex objects, but where is your outrage to protect women from this kind of oppression that men place on them? Instead you hit the power button and watch with enjoyment. It's obvious your against Amritdharis who wear the bana. Why would a Sikh change his Guru given Bana for anyone. This country is about freedom so wearing a Bana is not a crime. Your mind is very twisted. Satguru wore the Bana was he screaming look at me? Sikhs are proud and at the same time humble to wear the Bana. If an African woman wants to wear her culture or religious clothing in Canada then that should be encouraged not hindered. If an Amritdhari wants to wear a dhumala then that is his right and it should be encouraged. The punjabis that drive there mom and dads hard earned bmw around, wear expense clothes that their parents visa paid for, and take out girls on their parents visa are the one looking to advertise their parents wealth as their own. These are the people who are seeking attention.

Also added in your lotus feet Guru Ji are the following Jaaps: 2000 by Jaswinder Singh Bhai Sahib + his Singhni Ji + 270 by gupt*270 + 50 by Kaljugi Veerji + 200 other Jaaps Tuhi Tuhi!

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh bhai sahib khalistan-zindabad ji its good to hear that Baba Thakur Singh Ji wouldnt even share same room with badal. this current situation in panth is so frustrating! I once heard katha of harnam singh on sikh channel, it was on sooraj parkash. its clear harnam singh has knowledge on sikhi. same goes for jathedar of akal takht gurbachan singh, to get to jathedar of akal takht im thinking you must have certain required amount of knowledge on guru granth sahib and certain done amount of seva. which makes it so confusing as to why harnam singh and jathedar gurbachan singh would side with an individual who is so anti-panthic?!?! after reading Guru Granth Sahib ji, reading jeevan of Guru Sahiban, Char Sahibzade etc How can you stand with someone such as badal who has done so much damage to panth?!?! The only excuse I can think of is that harnam singh doesn't have information on things badal has done. I wonder if there are any singhs on this forum who know harnam singh and can send him photos of badal visiting deras and other anti-panthic stuff. Then see what response harnam singh gives. If he still stands by badal, then he is definitely not worthy of being jathedar of damdami taksal. Baba Thakur singh ji had bhagti, Jathedar Jarnail Singh Khalsa ji Bhindrawale had bhagti. They were true panthic leaders. Sache patshah! kirpa karo! we are in desperate need for a leader of the panth! Sache patshah! kirpa karo! waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh!

Dhumma is a puppet Jathedar and is nowhere near even worth the shoe of Sant Ji - he sold out to Badal as has Rode ,this was due to the elections and also the agreement to amend the Nanakshahi Calendar -

Added 108 Jaaps by a Gupt Singhni Ji

please add 522 Jeo :waheguru: modnote: Waheguru Dhanvaad Guru Pyaare Jeo, jaaps have been added!

Please don't be foolish enough to think it's womans fault that a man has thoughts of kaam. Guru Ji shunned this ridiculous notion assumed by muslims and stated men and women equal. In principle, this defacing of a poster is wrong, regardless of what was on the poster, a tyrannical act done by the taliban mentality of misguided muslims.

Caliph Omar's Ultimatum to Persian King, Yazdgird III and the King's Response by Caliph Omar & Yazdgerd Saasaani Text of the ultimatum from Omar Ibn-Khat'tab the Calif of Islam to the Iranina Sovereign, Yazdgerd III: Bism-ellah Ar'rahman Ar'rhim To the Shah of the FarsI do not foresee a good future for you and your nation save your acceptance of my terms and your submission to me. There was a time when your country ruled half the world, but see how now your sun has set. On all fronts your armies have been defeated and your nation is condemned to extinction. I point out to you the path whereby you might escape this fate. Namely, that you begin worshipping the one god, the unique deity, the only god who created all that is. I bring you his message. Order your nation to cease the false worship of fire and to join us, that they may join the truth. Worship Allah the creator of the world. Worship Allah and accept Islam as the path of salvation. End now your polytheistic ways and become Muslims that you may accept Allah-u-Akbar as your savior. This is the only way of securing your own survival and the peace of your Persians. You will do this if you know what is good for you and for your Persians. Submission is your only option. Allah u Akbar. The Calif of Muslims Omar Ibn-Khat'tab Response of the Persian King: In the name of Ahuramazda, the Creator of Life and Wisdom. From the Shahan-Shah of Iran Yazdgerd to Omar Ibn Khat'tab the Arab Calif. In your letter you summon us Iranians to your god whom you call "Allah-u-Akbar"; and because of your barbarity and ignorance, without knowing who we are and Whom we worship, you demand that we seek out your god and become worshippers of "Allah-u-Akbar". How strange that you occupy the seat of the Arab Caliph but are as ignorant as any desert roaming Arab! You admonish me to become monotheistic in faith. Ignorant man, for thousands of years we Aryaee have, in this land of culture and art, been monotheistic and five times a day have we offered prayers to God's Throne of Oneness. While we laid the foundations of philanthropy and righteousness and kindness in this world and held high the ensign of "Good Thoughts, Good Words and Good Deeds", you and your ancestors were desert wanderers who ate snakes and lizards and buried your innocent daughters alive. You Arabs who have no regard for God's creatures, who mercilessly put people to the sword, who mistreat your women and bury you daughters alive, who attack caravans and are highway robbers, who commit murder, who kidnap women and spouses; how dare you presume to teach us, who are above these evils, to worship God? You tell me to cease the worship of fire and to worship God instead! To us Iranians the light of Fire is reminiscent of the Light of God. The radiance and the sun-like warmth of fire exuberates our hearts, and the pleasant warmth of it brings our hearts and spirits closer together, that we may be philanthropic, kind and considerate, that gentleness and forgiveness may become our way of life, and that thereby the Light of God may keep shining in our hearts. Our God is the Great Ahuramazda. Strange is this that you too have now decided to give Him a name, and you call Him by the name of "Allah-u-Akbar". But we are nothing like you. We, in the name of Ahuramazda, practice compassion and love and goodness and righteousness and forgiveness, and care for the dispossessed and the unfortunate; But you, in the name of your "Allah-u-Akbar" commit murder, create misery and subject others to suffering! Tell me truly who is to blame for your misdeeds? Your god who orders genocide, plunder and destruction, or you who do these things in his name? Or both? You, who have spent all your days in brutality and barbarity, have now come out of your desolate deserts resolved to teach, by the blade and by conquest, the worship of God to a people who have for thousands of years been civilized and have relied on culture and knowledge and art as mighty supports. What have you, in the name of your "Allah-u-Akbar", taught these armies of Islam besides destruction and pillage and murder that you now presume to summon others to your god? Today, my people's fortunes have changed. Their armies, who were subjects of Ahuramazada, have now been defeated by the Arab armies of "Allah-u-Akbar". And they are being forced, at the point of the sword, to convert to the god by the name of "Allah-u-Akbar". And are forced to offer him prayers five times a day but now in Arabic; since your "Allah-u-Akbar" only understands Arabic. I advise you to return to your lizard infested deserts. Do not let loose upon our cities your cruel barbarous Arabs who are like rabid animals. Refrain from the murder of my people. Refrain from pillaging my people. Refrain from kidnapping our daughters in the name of your "Allah-u-Akbar". Refrain from these crimes and evils. We Aryaee are a forgiving people, a kind and well-meaning people. Wherever we go, we sow the seeds of goodness, amity and righteousness. And this is why we have the capacity to overlook the crimes and the misdeeds of your Arabs. Stay in your desert with your "Allah-u-Akbar", and do not approach our cities; for horrid is your belief and brutish is your conduct. Yazdgerd Saasaani

This. Is the answer - Time to close this thread.

Our culture? The proliferation of alcohol in the majority of families back home? Sikh youths (not necessarily in saroop) swapping syringes and heroin spoons? A gradually increasing majority who shun keeping kes? Girls eyeing up every boy that walks past them? Boys trying their chance with any girl who bites - even female relatives of similar age? I don't think so. Going to Panjab to gawp at a Gurudwara in the hope that it will somehow instigate a profound spiritual awakening isn't going to help anyone. Expecting to be brought closer to your roots by visiting Panjab is NOT the thing to do in order to connect with our shared heritage and the positive aspects of our culture. If anything, visiting Panjab and discovering what's really happening there willl put most people off. I'm speaking from experience so trust me. By all means take a tour of the holy shrines and Gurudwaras, and take time to learn about their histories. But don't expect any pearls of wisdom from the population. They are a lost people. It's a shame when I wonder how such a hallowed and sacred land, birthplace to so many great men and women of the past is now populated by some of the most despicable and Godless people on this earth.

In the last 3/4 years I've met about 4 girls from Sikh backgrounds who've told me that their father has explicitly told them they can marry who they want as long as they are looked after. When quizzed, they normally cite some instances of other female members of their family (usually older sisters) being on the receiving end of physical abuse at the hands of a Sikh partner as the cause for the liberalisation in the family. This liberalisation spans from complete freedom to choosing a partner from any race, religion, nationality, to one where other castes are now accepted. Make of it what you will? Again, the message I'm trying to convey is that it is a multiple complex of things that causes elopement and choosing nonSikh partners. It is not one or two simple reasons. Sometimes girls don't have to experience anything negative and have really supportive and love filled upbringings but still choose a nonSikh.