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I suggest a new harmonium! :biggrin2:

I've a feeling the Khalsa will pick up the pieces after whatever is going to happen has transpired. People will be looking for something, a comfort of some sort, and that's where I think Gurbani will be the key.

September 16th Joti Jot - Sahib Siri Guru Amar Das Sahib Jee Maharaj Gurgaddee - Sahib Siri Guru Ram Das Sahib Jee Maharaj Joti Jot - Sahib Siri Guru Ram Das Sahib Jee Maharaj Gurgaddee - Sahib Siri Guru Arjan Dev Sahib Jee Maharaj

We have a thread on Sikh Sangat that states 'What would we do if Sikhs were insulted' . Well this Ram Rahim does it everyday and apart from a few ordinary Sikhs who have opposed him like these brave Singhs most have stayed quiet. We have bold statements that some claim they are warriors and want to run the Akal takht but stay silent when the Guru Sahibs are insulted by the DSS. Whilst the Badal clan which run most of the Sikhs Institutions/organisations have openly tried to include him as an ally. These Singhs must be helped. http://www.deccanher...10-year-ri.html

Man whose harmoniums are clearly out of control/imbalanced: Man whose harmoniums are in harmonious harmony: An old man who's having a hard time with expressing his harmoniums:

Just as a side - beautiful shabad <3 (null)

Fair point, but look at it the other way also. Selectively attacking countries under the guise of 'human rights' and 'democracy' and making out like you are some paragon of virtue/ethics when your real intention is to grab dwindling natural resources for you own advantage - and causing the deaths of God knows how many innocent men, women and children in the process isn't much better. That <banned word filter activated> feeds and fuels fundamentalism as much as certain whites/westerners like to pretend otherwise.

There are a lot of demented people about. Count yourself lucky that you haven't come across this stuff. It exists. Personally I no longer click on any links that look like they are going to something like this. One thing very commonly used to ridicule Sikhi is the Sikh roop. Some narrow minded people think it looks ridiculous and we all know people have even started very popular facebook groups along this line. I'm not going to mention much of the other stuff I've (sadly) come across - but you do need to wake up a bit brother. Stop being so naive. Just to give you some brief (tame!) examples of what you can expect (just to keep you knowledgeable) - people have insulted Baba Nanak as someone who deserted his family, the traditional Baba Deep Singh narrative as a ridiculous miracle, Sikh roop making people look like apes etc. etc. Don't underestimate people's capacity to be malicious. Christians say 'know people by their fruits' - i.e. by what they do. And as you've alluded too our lot have the whole repertoire of female infanticide, alcohol, loose women, casteism - not to mention that you can usually find at least one 'sardar' at many backward ancient Indic ceremonies/rituals. People aren't focused on us right now because we are 'small fry' - if we ever rise (maybe I should say when we rise), in my opinion it's likely that we some people around us will criticise our society and values - just because people are often j-erks like that.

Waheguru Ji, Sarbat Khalsa Ji nu GurPurabs diya Lakh Lakh Vaddhayian! :L: Btw, its also Baba Sri Chand Ji's birthday today, vadhiayan for that :happy:

In gurmat, naam jaapna (be it reflecting on gurbani/abhyaas/self reflection) is consider highest karam of all. With that being said, Guru sahib have blended sargun and nirgun devotion all in one- Khalsa. Khalsa should not be hesitant or confine themselves to only sargun rituals or nirgun rituals, just have fine balance of both in their daily chores...!! (Hint Hint- read my signature). Now, if you are doing naam jaap and your mind is doing coconut jhatka or thinking about how to improve your sarbloh bibek..you got some serious road blocks issues my friends..get it sorted out..go to coconut doctor or sarbloh bibeki doctor..lol..but seriously do something..lol..other wise you will soon miss the boat..!! At the end, perception is everything...one could still be with akaal doing cocunut jhatka part of sargun devotion to chandi shakti (bhaguati shakti) and one could still be with sargun rituals while doing jaap of nirgun..!!..

Read 'Gurbani paath Darpan' by Baba Gurbachan Singh. Chapter about Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Akand path maryada includes what sant ji has written about coconut jhatka

These are just our rituals just like- lighting jots/incense, having cocunut in akhand patt, doing kirpan bheta of bhog parsad, washing darbar sahib with milk, sarovar ishnan, shastar ishan, shastar namaskar, naam jhapiya- hugs, khanda kharkouna etc etc etc. The rituals itself are not empty, but the person perception while performing the rituals define the status if rituals are empty or not..!!

What celebrity sants you are talking about here veer?

Singhstah veer, During an Akand Path of Sri Dasam Granth loads of coconuts and/or sugarcanes are jhatkaed. Every time a dusht or rakshash is killed in the pavittar bani of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib ji a coconut is ceremonially jhatkaed. It is also a way to channel the bir ras that comes from the bani. So a coconut or sugarcane is jhatkaed for every rakshash that is killed in Sri Dasam Granth. This is then distributed as Prashaad. Akaal

As a kid at the Gurdwara listening to kirtan, I use to love checking out the various harmoniums whenever a kirtani jatha would perform on stage. When one of the jatha had a white harmonium it use to make me very happy. The harmoniums with the sticker 'BINA' use to make me giggle; I use to wonder whether it was like 'Tere Bina' or something like that.

We should all do Ardas that such a thing never happens.

Same thing with ultra hippies who deliberately try to paint Sikhs as hindus. People who misquote Sri Dasam Granth Sahib to support devi pooja when in reality Guru Sahib in Chandi Di Vaar says that many of these Devte came but none of them met Akal Purakh. The only reason some people are able to get away with this is because as a collective we may not be well versed enough to put a stop to such lies right then and there.

What people forget here is that the film is based on Islamic sources mostly the Hadiths. So why are Muslims protesting when the hadiths contain the same stories about Mohammed. The reason is that most Muslims don't know what is contained in the hadiths and so they are led by their religious leaders to believe that what the movie portrays are lies. The thing that we need to consider is whether we have similar sakhis in our religion which can be used by anti-Sikh forces to portray the Gurus in a negative light?

human centipede anyone?

You can check the excellent website on this maha bhramgyani avtar of 20th century- baba nand singh ji maharaj ..it has lot of excerpts from the books on baba nand singh ji. http://www.babanandsinghsahib.org/

Yeah it has been confirmed that if you feel its getting cold all of a sudden and for no explainable reason, you've got company!

I haven't heard the second sakhi about Baba Nanak but I believe the first one is becoming increasingly well known because Giani Thakur Singh does katha of it (I heard it from him during his recent tour). Penti here refers to the original name of what we know as the Gurmukhi script. 'Penti' as in the Panjabi word for the number 35, but as you probably know letters where subsequently added to this 35 and we now have at least 41 (the extras being the dotted letters which represent Persian/Arabic sounds and the Lalla pair bindi for the retroflex L ਸ਼ ਖ਼ ਫ਼ ਗ਼ ਜ਼ ਲ਼ ). From what I remember of the katha, I think giani said that if you want to learn the language you go to this place and write the first line of the penti (ੳ ਅ ੲ ਸ ਹ) on a paper and throw it in some some tank, it helps you to remember/learn. Whether this sakhi has a basis in a historical incident or not I don't know. But it appears to be a pretty harmless emerging tradition at worst, plus I think it will help but Damdami on the 'historical pilgrimage' trail with the mainstream. Damdami is apparently a learning centre with a long provenance, dating back to dasmesh pita apparently. Apart from donations, I think they have funded themselves through printing gutkay (DDT sunder gutka/pothi), and now with the emergence of digitised gutkay on iphones/laptops their traditional source of funds may decrease, so having more traffic at Damdami (and the ensuing donations) are important - the place does a lot of good work. It's like THE centre for classical/traditional Sikh learning. Forgive any misapprehensions on my part.

There are few volumes on scribd.com, or you can got to DTF on Soho Rd.

I have burned myself in the flame of love so badly That even one who hears of it gets burned.

Water has a memory of sorts. No idea how this is related to Bani. Anyway, I used to be really scared when I was about 10. Scared that the Incredible Hulk would jump through my window. Scared that I could hear ringing indicating there was someone in my wardrobe rattling the hangers etc. I used to have to sleep with my hallway light on and my door open. Anyway I was given a paath to recite with which all my fear rapidly dissipated. p562 Dhan so vela jit darshan karna... Helped me so maybe it'll help you.

Have you got the right diagnosis? Lice means you should be able to see eggs and the lice. If so, have a read: http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Head-lice/Pages/Introduction.asp If it's just itching, it could be anything else like scabies or hives, or secondary to some other condition.

We are here worrying about something that is remotely relevant to bigger problems in our society. I do believe that larrivaar saroops should be encouraged but it very immature and sickening to see some disrespecting non-larrivaar sarrooops. We have tons of apnay who are in trouble understanding Gurbani in non-larrivaar saroops and imagine how hard it will for them to understand larrivaar saroops. Such issues are interesting to those who are out of touch with on-field reality back in Punjab. Discussion on such topics/issues are fine but hold on yourself on some issues, specially haumai. - re-opened thread

You might not like what I'm about to say but here goes. 1) There is no such thing as dukh as dukh & sukh are 1. Think about it logically our parents wouldn't want us to face hardship in life same way Mahraji never give their children (us) pain instead this moments of "dukh" are moments of sukh because its mahraji testing us. Accept sukh and dukh as one. Turn a situation you see as a negative into a positive. Its all about how you see things, if you see things as dukh then it'll get to you and feel like dukh but if you try to turn that into a positive thing you'll see the positive side. 2) Start strengthening your sikhi; in general this will help you become a more positive and stronger person. 3) Go and see your gp for further treatment. Its nothing to be ashamed of, they see these kinds of situations (e.g. Headlice etc) all the time. Best of luck.

As others have mentioned, consider thoughts to be small waves in the ocean (you), you need to realize ocean is same regardless of waves or ripple effects..ignore them. Keep reciting the mantra, keep being in your original state - focused, thoughtless awareness..!! If its bugging you too much, start doing vichar on simran- Vahi (acharaj- divine beauty- light/resosance) Gurooo- Chaitan saroop (supreme consciouness- thoughtless awareness) or start reciting mool mantar up to nanak hosi bhi sach and start doing vichar on the mool mantar on each and every akhar on mool mantar, all the thoughts will go off the window by itself..!!!!!!

There are different stages of simran. In the initial stages we should practise simran by speaking it loudly. A mala can be used to help us concentrate. At some point with Guru jis kirpa, a stage is reached where the lips cease to move and mental simran continues. This stage induces mental peace and joy. As we grow spiritually, mental simran will always or whenever we choose progress unceasingly. The physical aspect of simran ends and mental simran continues from day to day. Read bandginama by Raghbir Singh Bir for further clarification.

As an American, I find it ridiculous to try to justify the inconvenient truth about our foreign policy and role of corporations in destroying this great country. If you look hard enough without a bias, you'll see these terrorists were created by the U.S. Once they became spoiled and the interest fit the Bush/<banned word filter activated> groupies, then they used them to invade Afghanistan and Iraq. Afghanistan doesn't have oil, but has untapped natural resources such as lithium and other metal ores. The biggest terrorists are the republican party neo conservatives because they played down the FBI/CIA reports that there is an imminent attack on the U.S. Bush and Cheney knew, but allowed it to occur (some say made sure). This much is a FACT. http://www.nytimes.c...nings.html?_r=0 http://www.dailykos....-Laden-s-attack

^^^ It's not about hate. I admire the US for MANY things. My criticisms are NOT hate. You guys blind loyalty thing is plain unhealthy. Fix up.

Absolutely agree. This has been on my mind for quite a bit. When the "rise" does happen then we will be in the cross-hairs, make no mistake about that. So before that time comes it's time to shape up and cut out the crap that has crept into our mentality. We must be ruthless in ensuring our faith is not misrepresented, because hearing some of the stuff even from mainstream places (talk-shows, phone-ins, etc) regarding Islam and its adherents I begin to imagine myself in their situation, and if something similar was being said about Sikhi it would cut me to the core.

Just a small benti to admin/mods.... this thread should be sticky in general section for maximum exposure. What's missing among sikh youths these days is this deep insane not so politically correct love towards Guru Sahib- divine sargun embodiment of Vahiguroo ji, which is expressed in this soul wrenching poetry of bhai nand lal ji. I plan to sit one day, read this thread and cry my heart out for satguru gobind singh ji maharaj..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hope admin push this thread in general section for maximum exposure for sake of better good for sikhs..!!!!!!!!!!!!

Western countries have the mafia. In Punjab, we have baabeh. Politicians suck up to them because Baabeh can guarantee them votes. If Ram Rahim tells his sheep that Badal is the best candidate, then all the sheep will say "Baaaaahhhh".

It's kinda like when you annoy someone to get a reaction out of them. If the person doesn't react, then you get bored and leave them alone. So when Muslims go crazy and say "Don't insult our prophet, or else you will die!", what do you think people are gonna do? They're gonna go ahead and insult their prophet, just to rub it in their faces. So, if someone were to insult our Guru Sahiban like this, we should object PEACEFULLY. Attacking embassies and killing a man who had nothing to do with the production of the film, does nothing to bolster your "Religion of Peace" assertion.

This is the best advice. Read Bani and sleep with a Sarbloh Shastar. You will not have any Bhoots near you for miles.

when i came into sikhi i was alone for a long time b/c i had no sikh friends from my pre-sikhi life and there were no sikhs in any of my classes. now, i have the opportunity to do seva at a gurdwara where i can meet many singhs. i feel that the years when i was alone were preparing me, making me stronger so that i could stand loneliness. the truth is that bhagti marag is a lone path, nobody walks it with you except your Guru. my advice is, instead of focusing on find friends, focus on doing seva and building up your jeevan. if you volunteer at either sikh or non-sikh organisations, you may meet other people. but if meeting people isn't your main focus this will help take the pressure off. build yourself up for your job and jeevan, this will probably make you much happier and stronger in the long run. channel that loneliness into meeting maharaj.

Osho was very gifted with the ability to explain such subtle concepts in a way that made sense to the average person. He also attained a very high degree of awareness. However, he didn't understand Guru Nanak or Sikhi. In his description of various prophets, he stated that Guru Nanak believed in sargun bhagti only. The truth is that Guru ji taught a method to take us from sargun to nirgun. This shows that his understanding and level of study of the Sikh dharm was quite limited. Still, his insights are inspiring, but be cautioned.

My story's not interesting, i was born into sikhi and now am struggling in it, so i'll post one of my favorite from searchsikhism.com: Singh Ji Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh I was born in UK, and have one elder brother. He always had kesh, and i was a mona. My father in 1987 kept his kesh, and a year later both my mother, who know started wearing a keski, and father both took amrit. Both have always kept good amrit velas, and it changed the atmosphere in the home. They were always ideal role models for us. When I was 11, I wanted to keep my kesh, but with no sangat of my age, I found it difficult. As I grew up, all my friends were into drinking, later smoking. None of this attracted me, and I only drank infrequently, and only small amounts. We used to go to gigs a lot, but always there were fights, between us and other groups of Punjabis, or Muslims. I was about 16 then. The last straw for me was when at one gig. I saw a lad, who I did not know, got jumped and beaten severely. All of his mates ran away. I felt sorry for him, so I hauled off the boys who were beating him up. His head was cut, and the bouncers put him out. He was lying there on the floor. I said to him I will take him to hospital, but he would not have it. So I took him home. All my mates said leave him, he is not our concern. But I took him by myself. After dropping him off, I went home on the tube. I looked down at my clothes; they were covered in his blood. I just thought, what is this rubbish, and what am I doing in these crowds. I never went to a gig again. A few months later, my father took me to my first youth programme in watford hall. Shivcharan Singh was doing a talk, which was good. Then a young lad came up to me and gave me a leaflet for Khalsa camp 1992. He was a mona, just like me, and he said come, it will be a laugh. So I signed up. The khalsa camp was excellent, it was the first time I had met young Sikhs. I met people from my town like Onkar and Hardip there for the first time. During the camp, on one day, during the lectures, a message came through. Apparently a really famous Singh in India had just become Shaheed. The Singh doing the lecture, who was in full bana, almost came to tears. The whole room went quiet. I did not have a clue what was going on. Then one singh said there will a rainsbhai tonight in memory. I did not know what a rainsbhai was, but the guy next to me told me it was his first as well, and they are meant to be really good. The rainsbhai was fantastic, we got there at 9, and the next thing I knew it was 6 in the morning. It was my first experience of keertan, and I got addicted. For the first time, I had felt such inner glow. After the camp, I went back to my friends. I never thought about keeping kesh, it just automatically happened. I just never shaved again. All my friends tried to stop me from keeping kesh. They would spend hours talking to me, telling me, I had everything they wanted. I had the clothes, the car, and all the girls they wanted were friendly with me. But I said, it always never meant anything to me. The girls would say to me, it’s just a phrase, we will get you back. None of them understood. That lifestyle is not what makes me happy inside. At weekends instead of going out with them, I was now going to keertan programmes wherever I could. After I had not been out with them a few weeks, they all started on me. Plus I was now wearing a small dastaar. They said I have to go out with them that weekend. After much pressure, I agreed. We went out, a large number of us. Tradition was after a night out, everyone went to this shop where they did chicken kebabs. We had done this for years. Sitting there surrounded by all my friends, watching them each chicken, for the first time, I felt a deep pain inside. The kind of pain, when you know something is wrong, or someone in front of you is swearing or doing ninda. "So I said to all of them, I think I will leave. I do not wish to spoil your pleasure, but I cannot sit and watch you eat meat. It hurts me. "That was the last time I ever went out with them. All of us are close even till today. We all went to the same uni, They wanted me to stay with them in their house. But I never wanted to impose my rules on them, so I commuted instead. We all had an understanding. They knew, whenever I was around, they could not smoke, drink, eat meat, swear, talk about girls or boys in wrong way, or do ninda. They knew I never said anything, I would just walk away, but they did it just to make stick around. I never left my friends; I just changed the way we interacted with each other. They knew never to ask me to go anywhere against Gursikhi. I now came across Bhai sahib jis autobiography. I always used to read, it was a passion of mine. I read a lot of books on sikhi. But this was revelation for me. I had never realized that this level of thinking, and caliber of Gursikh ever existed. It pushed my own perception of sikhi higher ten fold. Bhai sahib jeevan brought home to me how important a jeevan actually is, and not just ritualistically going to gurdwaras. Never had my mind contemplated going into sikhi so deeply before. I spent most of my time in sangat, especially jatha. In Uk, we have a youth scene, but I always found them hard to understand. I saw the same thing in them that I saw in elders generally. They all talked about not doing it, politics, backstabbing, powertrips, but did it anyway. Plus I was not into sikhi for that, just into it for keertan, my mun, sangat, and Panth. I saw many youth coming into sikhi going from pillar to post. One day in jatha, the next with a sant, the next with taksal, the next with feds, etc. I thought this was like in gurbani, what we say "patak the". Searching and going everywhere, yet obsessed by staying neutral. They all say we do not get into politics, we are neutral. I personally thought these neutral pople are more into politics that anyone else, otherwise how do they know what is neutral and what is not. I personally felt very lucky, that Maharaj gave me a path where I avoided all politics, double-mindedness, controversies, groups, etc. Guru Maharaj himself took me from day one to the source of Gurmat, Shabad guru, keertan and path. Never have I ever felt the need for anything else. I am truly content with bani. No sants, youth leaders, keertanis, jathedars, have ever attracted me, neither have I ever ran after anyone. Bani is my Guru, and all I ever needed. One day, a friend said to me, there is a amrit Sanchaar in Slough. Are you not going to take amrit. I had never even considered it, but after much thought, and reading Amrit ki Hai, by Bhai sahib, I thought now is the time. So I got prepared. On my interview first, the Panj asked me alot of questions to see if I was ready. A lot of youth at uni age were doing wrong things, and they wanted to be sure that i was strong in Gurmat. The Panj set me a condition, the once I got Naam, I would go to a Gursikhs house who lived near me everday for 3 months and do Amrit vela with him. I agreed. Outside the Amrit Sanchaar, Bhai Rama Singh ji came and sat with me. He smiled and said he was happy I was taking amrit. He was getting pesh, because he had just had his heart transplant. He spent alot of talking to me about Amrit, priceless thougths, and then said, the more bhagtee we do now, the more impact amrit will have on us. We sat there doing moolmantar. After many hours we were called in for amrit. bhai sahib said to me, when the Panj Pyare prepared amrit concentrate on the bowl, while listening to the bani. Do not move your eyes from it. So I did. It was very hypnotic. Amrit was a very powerful emotion for me. Things happen that I cannot describe, twice I fell unconscious. Such was the strong energy inside, but the complete peace in my mind. I felt sad, when I hear of youth, who tell me they went and took amrit from sants, and felt nothing. They did not know Gurmantar, and did not value Amrit. I felt so fortunate that maharaj gave me everything. I never had to search for it. The condition of the Panj was excellent. For 3 months or more, I did amrit vela with this Gursikh. He took me to spiritual heights I can never describe. Some days I felt lazy,and he would phone, encouraging me to come as soon as possible. It was only then after this period of abyass after amrit, that I realized how amazing Naam and how powerful it is. The youth around me used to tell me amazing stories about sikhs they had met. I had never met anyone. So one night I did ardas, Maharaj let me have darshan of all your choosen sikhs. Not to follow, because bani was everything, just out of interest. I had already met Bhai Rama Singh, a most amazing soul. Within weeks, I met bhai Jeevan Singh, Giani Nahar Singh, Bhai Raghbir Singh. I went to Canada, and met so many amazing souls, and also to India, in particular Delhi Smagam. The magnetism of naam in India is just profound. There are so many special jeevans in the Panth, it is just a shame, we spend most of lives with our eyes closed, and not realise their existence. For many years, everything was perfect. I was surrounded by sangat, keertan, and Naam. Even though we were always involved in panth, politics never affected me, because of this shield of naam. Praise was everywhere, and I felt invincible. Not out of haumai or pride, just because I always felt Guru jis hand on my head. Then suddenly, something happened which changed everything. I did not feel I had done anything wrong, just the circumstances and environment Guru Ji put me in, had changed. At first I felt deep depression, because I had never been away from sangat. But then I realized, this was just another test, a very hard one, something to overcome. Guru maharaj had showed me sikhi in a certain way, now i was been shown it in another. I realized how unimportant I am, and never to expect anything from anyone. Guru Tegh Bahadhur Ji bani said so much to me about what I was gong thougth. Bani was the only thing I had ever felt faith in, and it was always there for me. Maharaj walked me through that time. I learned more about Gurmat, my inner self, my failings through this than anything else. Now in hindsight, I am glad I went through that. It made my faith so much stronger. It took me nearer to what I wish to achieve and become. Maharaj is so amazing; one can do nothing but submit in front of him. Two years ago, I met a friend, a muslim who converted to fundamental islam, when I got into sikhi. He said he was surprised I was still into sikhi. I said why, and asked why he was not into islam anymore. He said "I went into Islam, because it was cause for me. Chechnya, Palestine, etc. Muslims being killed everywhere. After time it faded. The prayers are good but it faded." I replied "we have causes in sikhi as well. But sikhi was never a cause for me. It is a lifestyle. Sikhi is about becoming a better person. That is something that will take all of my lifetime to do. I am in it for life. One can never stop being a better person". Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

hehe..i am a veggie before someone issues fatwa against me..lol

So many likes!- I didn't realise so many people on this forum are meat-eaters! Waheguru Sab Kuj tera.

Guru wasn't a mad butcher who would order the killing of innocent Goats like the nangs do,Shaheed Banda Singh Bahadur before becoming a Khalsa changed his views after he killed an animal in hunting and saw its kids dying.You may be able to do that hindu bali sacrifice in Hazoor Sahib or the Nang camps but never in any other places like Sri Harmandar Sahib Complex Tell these nangs to go fight Delhi instead of killing goats ,Oh I forgot the Nangs took Delhis side in 84 and during the Kargil war even offered to fight for India so what can we expect from them