Leaderboard

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa! Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh! Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji describes the sacrifice made by the Ninth Guru in their autobiography titled Sri Bachitter Natak; ‘He protected the forehead mark and sacred thread (of the Hindus) which marked a great event in the Iron age. For the sake of saints, he laid down his head without even a sign.13. For the sake of Dharma, he sacrificed himself. He laid down his head but not his creed. The saints of the Lord abhor the performance of miracles and malpractices. 14. Breaking the potsherd of his body head of the king of Delhi (Aurangzeb), He left for the abode of the Lord. The whole world bemoaned the departure of Tegh Bahadur. The whole world grieved at the Guru’s departure, the gods hailed the Guru’s arrival in heavens.16’. (Dasam Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 131) Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur sitting in a small iron cage watching Bhai Mati Das being sawn in half. Even once his body was in two pieces, the Gurus hymns could still be heard resonating from Bhai Mati Das. The names of those who sacrificed their lives at Delhi continue to serve as a great source of inspiration for Sikhs, it is fitting that the names of those who are noted as great martyrs of the Sikh faith also symbolically represent the qualities of the creed of Sikh warrior that was required to face the challenges which would confront the Sikhs in the years preceding their great sacrifice. The names of the Ninth Guru’s three companions represent the following qualities; good intellect (mat), truthfulness (sat) and compassion (dyal). Thus, as is seen many time in Sikh history, and indeed the history of other religious traditions, historical fact and spiritual symbolism are often hand in hand... Continue Reading... http://www.nihangsingh.org/website/his-gurugobind.html

Sache Patshah jeeo, sanu kookaraan nu sumat baksho, asi Tuhade jeevan ton, te Tuhadi Shaheedi ton sejh lai sakiye, kaljugi bishta vich gal chukke es jeevan nu Tuhadi meher da sadka ubhaar ke ucha sucha bna sakiye

Yes of course we should be worried. These guys are making money just by a placebo method. I mean if you talk to anyone of these victims and give them a psychological boost, they will feel better but not cured. Because the guy will want them to come back to pay him some more!!! This jinn stuff is just rubbish. We don't need to worry because Guru Granth Sahib ji keeps us well away from this crap. Besides, sikhism does NOT acknowledge this evil and fake healing, we are well above that if you keep your faith in the Guru Granth Sahib ji. It really pisses me off that this guy just like hindu pandits i making 60 bucks an hour and it's something that we can all do. He isn't no special healer or anything, he's just a smart bloke using psyschlogical manipulation and giving the victims what they want to hear and feel. We have our own sikhs that fall for this crap, and it always happens when one refuses to accept HUKAM. Let the hukam be what it is, even when dark days come over us. But too easily we go looking for an excuse and some black magic to blame. When in reality, there is no such evil spririts. If our Sants and babas could make more awareness of these pakhandees, then people wouldn't fall for it.

ਤੇਗ ਬਹਾਦਰ ਸਿਮਰਿਐ ਘਰ ਨਉ ਨਿਧਿ ਆਵੈ ਧਾਇ ਤਿਲਕ ਜੰਵੂ ਰਾਖਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤਾ ਕਾ ॥ ਕੀਨੋ ਬਡੋ ਕਲੂ ਮਹਿ ਸਾਕਾ ॥ ਸਾਧਨ ਹੇਤਿ ਇਤੀ ਜਿਨਿ ਕਰੀ ॥ ਸੀਸੁ ਦੀਆ ਪਰ ਸੀ ਨ ਉਚਰੀ ॥੧੩॥ ਧਰਮ ਹੇਤਿ ਸਾਕਾ ਜਿਨਿ ਕੀਆ ॥ ਸੀਸੁ ਦੀਆ ਪਰ ਸਿਰਰੁ ਨ ਦੀਆ ॥ ਨਾਟਕ ਚੇਟਕ ਕੀਏ ਕੁਕਾਜਾ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਲੋਗਨ ਕਹ ਆਵਤ ਲਾਜਾ ॥੧੪॥ ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥ ਠੀਕਰਿ ਫੋਰਿ ਦਿਲੀਸਿ ਸਿਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਪੁਰਿ ਕੀਯਾ ਪਯਾਨ ॥ ਤੇਗ ਬਹਾਦਰ ਸੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਆ ਕਰੀ ਨ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਆਨ ॥੧੫॥ ਤੇਗ ਬਹਾਦਰ ਕੇ ਚਲਤ ਭਯੋ ਜਗਤ ਕੋ ਸੋਕ ॥ ਹੈ ਹੈ ਹੈ ਸਭ ਜਗ ਭਯੋ ਜੈ ਜੈ ਜੈ ਸੁਰ ਲੋਕਿ ॥੧੬॥ November 24th 2010 is the 335th anniversary of an unparalleled sacrifice in human history. We have countless examples of people sacrificing their lives for their country, religion, and loved ones. But in 1675, on November 24th, for the first time ever, the world witnessed a sacrifice that was made by the one who was above any kind of hatred or enmity towards anyone, the one who sacrificed His life to uphold the right of freedom of religion for those who were followers of another religion and not His own. He was the one who made this supreme sacrifice without expecting the least bit of acknowledgement from those for whom He did this sacrifice, without expecting any sort of gratitude, and without asking for anything in return. His was a totally selfless sacrifice, done out of His pure love for all of humanity, for the freedom of all mankind to worship the way they chose to. This poem is for few of those Hindus who have completely forgotten the unparallel sacrifice of Guru Teg Bahadur Sahib For you He left His family, His son, His wife For you He didn't hesitate to sacrifice His life For you He courted arrest, and suffered all tortures To fill your life with the roses of happiness, and joy filled orchards For you He saw His Sikhs sawn and boiled The hands of the Mughals with blood were soiled For you He refused all pleasures and comforts And accepted the pains that can shake all hearts For you He rejected proposals of wealth So that your generations could thrive in health For you He sacrificed His body and His head So that you could live fearlessly and earn your bread Have you forgotten all He has done His people you made the object of fun Have you forgotten the legacy of His martyrdom that to the oppression of His people you act deaf and dumb? Have you forgotten His sacrifice, oh so complete! That today His message for you has become totally obsolete! Have you forgotten that He is your saviour Or the Mughals would do to you what else but devour Forget not the One who saved you Protected your honor and carried you through Forget not the One who took all the pains Death for Himself, for you all the gains Forget not the One who had His head severed Today His people are mocked by you, instead of being revered Wake up my dear, before its too late Your silence and indifference is ruining your own fate Wake up my dear, or you will pay a cost Hatred will fume and all love will be lost Wake up my dear, and recognize this fact What He did for you was an ultimate act! Wake up my dear, wake up and bow down Bow down to the Master of Sikhs, the Sikhs whom you labeled a clown Wake up my dear, and say after me Say with your heart and you will be free Dhann Guru Teg Bahadur, tu Hind di chaddar Tu hi sadda sacha patshah tu hi sadda rehbar - Mehtab Singh 2003

Cisco - lier lier panties on fire! Your jackanory story is as brittle as Humpty Dumpty mate! Try asking nadar for a new story so that you can try and fool some other kids. Listen here my little friend here's just a snippet of some facts about maas: - lord Nadar can twist Gurbani to fit in with his manmukhi all you like, but remember what Maharaj says about fool arguing about meat. And while we're at it, why did you not even address nadars penchant for the devils nectar?? Not Sukha, but Chivas Regal??? - Raw Meat tastes like it come out of the animals own back side! that's why it needs to be cooked and seasoned where as veggies taste beautiful raw - Waheguru never designed your teeth to break up raw Maas, hence why you need to cook it to make it softer. - all the germs and disease of the animal are inside it when you stick it's muscles, joints and flesh in to your body Just a little taster, plenty more for you should you want to engage me! Your sincerely Shaheed Singh aka "The last living Joothi Vidiya master in Southall"

I'm not sure. I was listening on the internet (via one of those internet radios) because the station is not local to me. EDIT: Got it from their website! http://listenback.raajfm.com/. Click on the link which says Morning Gurbani Friday 23 November.

for proper warfare strategy the TOTAL WAR games are awesome !!! by the way if anyones on xbox live my tags - taran3d its ok to play a little bit of gaming .... as long as you get your work done and feed the kids, but i don't play violent games in front of my children.

Sarna is a real sore loser. He knows he will lose next election, so he is trying to act like a gangster. He will lose next election for sure.

I listened to an awesome katha about Guru Ji's shaheedi on the radio yesterday morning. The giani ji was basically using quotes and verse from kavis of various backgrounds, i.e. Hindus and Muslims (poets) of the time who wrote about Guru Ji's shaheedi and the events leading up to them leaving for Delhi. It was like an actual historical account of what happened, with various sources being used to illustrate the events of the time.

bas aahi dekhna baaki reh gya si

:respect: :respect: :respect: :respect: :respect:

i know that bhaji, i like to talk to people of that era to understand their experiences, and such, but the loss of that event is just so great, its unbelievable that its actually happened.

So what's your point? No one will help us as we are too small and dont help ourselves. That's true. So now what? We cant suddenly start having kids to get more voters. We cant all suddenly become rich and move to nice parts of the country (even though I have been saying that there were ways of doing this but no one wanted to know). The far right just want us to be cannon fodder. They have a pretty inflated view of their own self worth which is why they wont get their own hands dirty. Why they think Sikhs are beneath them and willing to be expendable, I dont know. Maybe to do with our disregard for ourselves in these kinds of situations? A lot of young Sikhs I know dont like chavs or paks. Forcing them to chose is just going to make them not want to do anything. Most Sikhs want to emigrate anyway, the UK is re-entering the Dark Ages without an empire to steal off anymore. Is it even worth the life of one Sikh fighting to change a country that doesnt give a <banned word filter activated> about us?

There cases need to be taken up by the Sikh organisations and the public should react as whan Bhai Rajoana was sentenced to death. Sikhs in their 90's are being jailed whilst mass murders like Kishori lala are set free.

http://www.samachar.com/Live-Ajmal-Kasab-executed-mlviKQiibbd.html Family members of Kasab informed about the hanging through a letter sent by courier, Union Home Secretary R K Singh said. 10. 50 am Shiv Sena MP and spokesperson Sanjay Raut said Kasab's hanging was a true shraddhanjali to his party chief Balasaheb Thackeray. 10. 40 am BJP welcomes Kasab's hanging BJP today welcomed the hanging of 26/11 attack convict Ajmal Kasab but emphasised that his handlers across the border in Pakistan should also be brought to justice. "Better late than never. Kasab's hanging will act as a balm on the wounds of the people of Mumbai but their wounds are still fresh. They will get relief only when Kasab's handler's across the border are brought to justice," BJP spokesperson Shahnawaz Hussain said. He also demanded that Parliament attack accused Afzal Guru be hanged soon to send across a strong message to the terrorists and instill a sense of fear in them. 10. 30 am Pakistan refuses to claim Kasab's body: Shinde After Maharashtra chief minister Prithviraj Chavan confirmed that Ajmal Kasab has been buried in Yerawada jail, Union Home Minister Sushil Kumar Shinde said that Pakistan has refused to claim Kasab's body and so he was laid to rest in India. 10. 20 am Kasab buried in Yerawada jail, says Chavan Maharashtra chief minister Prithviraj Chavan has confirmed that Ajmal Kasab has been buried in Yerawada jail. 10. 10 am It's a victory for the country: Nikam on Kasab hanging Homage has been paid to all those who lost their lives in the 26/11 attack by the hanging of Pakistani terrorist Ajmal Kasab, special public prosecutor Ujjwal Nikam, who appeared for police in the case, said today. "It is victory for the country. By hanging Kasab, we have paid homage to all those policemen and innocent persons who lost their lives," Nikam said. Kasab was hanged this morning at Pune's Yerwada jail after his mercy petition was rejected by the President on November 8. 10. 00 am Twitter reacts to Kasab's hanging Sachin Kalbag ‏@SachinKalbag We need to bring people to justice. But we cannot be seen as bloodthirsty. Glad that India followed the process of law to the T. #Kasab Narendra Ganpule ‏@NarendraGanpule Thoughts with the families of those who lost lives, traumatized and #TukaramOmbale hero of 26/11 who caught #kasab & died 9.30 am: Jammu and Kashmir's Chief Minister Omar Abdullah had this to say about Kasab's execution on Twitter. Omar Abdullah@abdullah_omar Now we'll watch all the channels line up to claim that THEY were the ones to break the news of the hanging. 9.27 am: Government had reportedly spent Rs 24 crores in total - on Kasab's security and on his high-security cell. That is one burden that will now disappear. 9.25 am: Speculation is rife that Kasab might be buried in Pakistan. 9.32 am: Jammu and Kashmir's Chief Minister Omar Abdullah had this to say about Kasab's execution on Twitter. Omar Abdullah@abdullah_omar Now we'll watch all the channels line up to claim that THEY were the ones to break the news of the hanging. 9. 30 am: 'Ajmal Kasab was hanged in Yerawada at 7:30 this morning. I sent the file to Maharashtra government. It was decided that hanging would be carried out today at 7:30 am. Pakistan has not demanded for Kasab's body,' said Sushilkumar Shinde, Minister of Home Affairs. 9.12 am: Union Home Minister Sushil Kumar Shinde says that the order to hang Kasab was sent on November 8 by him. This after President Pranab Mukherjee rejected his mercy petition on November 5. The date to hang Kasab was immediately fixed and he was shifted from the Arthur Road jail to Yerwada jail in Pune in a top-secret operation on Sunday night, the day Bal Thackeray's funeral was held. Kasab was informed about his hanging, the jail manual was followed, and he had no last wish and left no will, it has been confirmed. 9.06 am: Maharashtra Chief Minister Prithviraj Chavan says that the order to hang Kasab was given on November 8. 9.03 am: Maharashtra Home Minister RR Patil says, "Kasab's execution is a tribute to the victims of 26/11 attacks." 8.53 am: Some of the early reactions on Twitter for Kasab's execution: Aashish Dongre ‏@AashishDongre Maharashtra govt can now direct additional funds to education and healthcare #AjmalKasab Prasanna Vaste ‏@prsvaste #AjmalKasab hanged. finally some action by #president. but what about #afzalguru Preet Singh ‏@PSdxb #AjmalKasab some justice for the families of victims of 26/11. Closure for them may never be fully possible. Manik Jindal ‏@theManikJindal Justice delayed is justice denied, but this surely is something more. Ajmal kasab hanged today morning. #AjmalKasab 8.41 am: Home Minister of Maharashtra, R R Patil has officially confirmed that Ajmal Kasab was hanged today. He has said that the due process of law has been followed. 8.34 am: Home Minister Sushil Kumar Shinde has confirmed that Kasab had been hanged. 8.33 am: Ajmal Kasab hanged confirms Maharashtra Home Minister R R Patil. 8.25 am: ​Ajmal Kasab, the only surviving terrorist involved in the 2008 Mumbai terror attacks, that left 166 people dead has been hanged at 7:30 am today. He was hanged in Pune's Yerwada jail, after President Pranab Mukherjee rejected his mercy petition on November 5. "Yes, Kasab has been hanged this (Wednesday) morning at 7.30 am in Yerawada Central Jail," Special Public Prosecutor Ujjwal Nikam, who led the 26/11 terror attacks case, confirmed. Post your Comments

Often the term 'hind di chadhur' is used. Our Guru gave his head and life to save the hindus. The kashmiri pandits came to him when they were under threat from moghuls because they wanted to ask him 'who could represent them and try save their sacred hindu tikka and thread''. Remember, it was the very young Gobind Rai that said '' Don't be confused trying to think who to appoint, who is better to represent them than you my father ?'' Self volunteering to sacrifice your life not to save your family or your own, but to save the hindus that were under unjust threat and oppression.

Glory of the Guru : Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib's Shaheedi Divas http://www.ibtl.in/video/6579/glory-of-the-guru-guru-tegh-bahadur-sahibs-shaheedi-divas

Dhann Dhann Sahib Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Patshah Jee Maharaj

I can agree with the removing certain items as i was once wrestling with a friend and got stabbed with his kirpan , so after that we would remove our kirpans to wrestle.... we have been hearing similar things - Nidar students do seem to have an air of superiority about them i can also confirm that if you are a vegetarian they think its hilarious, and see you as a coward once one of nidars main students asked me - why don't you eat meat? i replied "i do not care who eats and who does not, but i think of the effect on others, my mother , beleives that an amritdhari sikh should be vegetarian, and not drink, and being the only amritdhari in my family, she is very proud that one of her sons is a Singh, if she were to find out that i had eaten meat (whether right or wrong) it would break her heart - who am I to do that to her, why break her heart? for what ? a few tastes. eating meat proves nothing just as being vegetarian proves nothing, it just does not feel right for me and not important to me at all" he had no reply. as for cussing down other martial artists, this strikes me as insecure - a good martial artists is able to view other arts with an open mind and realise the social and community aspect the gatka gives to little children and be able to accept others and their ways. i would never go to someone elses archery club and take the piss out of the little kids shooting at bosses only 10 metres away and say "what amateurs - as you pretty much cant miss from that distance! call yourself archers" mocking others martial arts is just ego which is rampant within martial arts teachers everyhwere, everyone who does martial arts thinks their martial art is the best, the real deal, the best thing since sliced bread, the ONLY real combat art!, and the key to self defense, the ultimate art and so on .... read this thread its hilarous, some guy asks which martial art is best and they all a kick off in disgust! http://oelie.antville.org/stories/1065372/ "pai ka hoo ko dait ney, na pai maan dhyaan"

John Bull doesnt have time to hate on Browns if he cant even put food on the table. Think of all those poor coconuts who cant sell their people out any longer! Where will they work? Who will they suck up to? Truly heartbreaking. lol.

Hundal's Pickled Politics been shut down - so he can't be doing too well demonising his own people.

You're a lucky person for having an old Shastar passed down from your elders. I wish I had inherited a shastar from my elders.

Some one alert the Khalistani AirForce and tell them that airplanes that fly over Gurudwaras serve alcohol or may contain people joining the 'Mile high Club'. The Khalsa should shoot all these planes down for it is major beadbi. Call the SGPC and get them to fire ballistic missiles at the International Space Station as I am sure their orbit takes them over Gurudwaras. Do you people also get offended when some old man in a Gurudwara uncrosses his legs to get up with his walking stick and his feet point at SGGS Ji? Rather than turn into Wasabis like Muslims, why dont we focus on deliberate beadbi? Real estate aint cheap in Tokyo and sticking a Punjabi style building in the middle of someone else's capital could upset some. I dont know the ins and outs of this but knee <banned word filter activated> craziness doesnt help. Is this the Gurudwara you refer to?

DHANN DHANN SAHIB SRI GURU TEGH BAHADUR PATSHAH JEE MAHARAJ !!!!! This poem is for few of those Hindus who have completely forgotten the unparallel sacrifice of Guru Teg Bahadur Sahib For you He left His family, His son, His wife For you He didn’t hesitate to sacrifice His life For you He courted arrest, and suffered all tortures To fill your life with the roses of happiness, and joy filled orchards For you He saw His Sikhs sawn and boiled The hands of the Mughals with blood were soiled For you He refused all pleasures and comforts And accepted the pains that can shake all hearts For you He rejected proposals of wealth So that your generations could thrive in health For you He sacrificed His body and His head So that you could live fearlessly and earn your bread Have you forgotten all He has done His people you made the object of fun Have you forgotten the legacy of His martyrdom that to the oppression of His people you act deaf and dumb? Have you forgotten His sacrifice, oh so complete! That today His message for you has become totally obsolete! Have you forgotten that He is your saviour Or the Mughals would do to you what else but devour Forget not the One who saved you Protected your honor and carried you through Forget not the One who took all the pains Death for Himself, for you all the gains Forget not the One who had His head severed Today His people are mocked by you, instead of being revered Wake up my dear, before its too late Your silence and indifference is ruining your own fate Wake up my dear, or you will pay a cost Hatred will fume and all love will be lost Wake up my dear, and recognize this fact What He did for you was an ultimate act! Wake up my dear, wake up and bow down Bow down to the Master of Sikhs, the Sikhs whom you labeled a clown Wake up my dear, and say after me Say with your heart and you will be free Dhann Guru Teg Bahadur, tu Hind di chaddar Tu hi sadda sacha patshah tu hi sadda rehbar -Mehtab Singh (2003 - when daas wasn't Mehtab Singh)

Dare I say there's parallels between the covert character assassination of the Native American at the hands of the the white American powers-that-be, and the way in which the classic image of the Sikh has been subverted by the Indian government (in terms of Bollywood) over the years, i.e. the portrayal of Sikhs as bumbling, hot-headed, kirpan-wielding simpletons whose only contribution to a situation is a jakaara and a charge into oblivion, or in recent years nothing more than a supporting act and / or comic relief. It's all about undermining the respective histories and achievements of Sikhs (and Native Americans in their particular example), and ensuring future generations that belong to both races / religions shy away from learning the truth about their heritage and forefathers.

Easy guys with swearing, i don't know what sikhi you guys are following but senior gurmukhs would never be approve of swearing like that...taran singh have done excellent job highlighting some of the fallacies of nihang niddar singh group, lets not ruin his work by getting carried away and giving other party a chance to exploit the suitation..!!!

I'm sure 'entertaining' was a typo error and you meant to say 'educational' ? Why anyone would tell an American that comes from a place with mega malls and trendy street markets to come all this way and visit a mall and trendy market is beyond me. If you really wanna visit a street market than go to Liverpool Street underground station on a Sunday morning and walk towards Whitechapel through Middlesex Street. This Petticoat Lane market will be an eye-opener for you because it will transport you to New York's Lower East Side as it was in the early 1900's....multiplied by 3. Now....of course you have to visit Southall in west London as there really is no place like it in North America. I know north America well and although there are places there, such as Brampton, Surrey etc that have a far bigger Sikh population than Southall, those localities are still typical north american towns and cities. Southall, in contrast, in feel, sound, ambience, smell etc does not feel like a town in any western locality. It must be experienced. Besides Southall, the UK, and London in particular has more Sikhs relics to see than any city in the world besides Amritsar and Anandpur. You could start with the little known inscription to the Anglo-Sikh War at Trafalgar Square. You could then go to the fantastic Albert and Victoria Museum and see Maharaja Ranjit Singh's golden throne. Of course, if you know which dates you are visiting you should make an appointment in advance with both the V&A and the India Records Office and they will let you see all the Sikh artefacts they have in the back room not for public display. You could then go to the Tower of London and see the Khalsa Raj's jewells. You could then go to Abingdon House where Rani Jindan lived. You could then go to the National Army Museum and (with appointment) see the vast amount of Sikh historic artefacts they have. As you leave that museum you can pass the Royal Chelsea Hospital and observe the Khalsa cannons that stand guard outside, with Gurmukhi inscriptions on them. You could then go to Scotland Yard's Black Museum and see the gun that Udham Singh used to assassinate o'dwyer. After that, you can make short visits just outside London knowing that all that has hardly cost you anything as London is such an amazing city that not only does it have the most museums in the world they are completely free to everyone all the time. So....you make your way just to the south east of London to Kent. See the Sikh items from the anglo-sikh wars at Maidstone Museum. Then go to the town of Gravesend and see the most fantastic Gurdwara in the western world in the town that has the highest Sikh population per ratio in the UK whilst also paying homage to the place of death of someone thats important to your own history as an American : Pochaontas. Go to the historic Cantebury Cathedral and see the Sikh battle standards that fly there. Then maybe go south and visit the Brighton Royal Pavillion and the Chatri built by the Maharaja of Patiala. Then go along the south coast to Portsmouth and Fort Nelson and see the Khalsa cannons guarding the fort. Then catch a ferry and cross to the Isle of Wight and visit Osborne House and its connections to Duleep Singh and Ram Singh's Sikh architecture. All this, and I haven't even mentioned going north of London where even more Sikh artefacts lie.

Same old lot doing the same ganthd http://news.sky.com/story/1001706/rochdale-sex-abuse-nine-men-charged

Okay the Pakistani terrorist was hanged, now when is it going to be the turn of the Indian sarkari terrorists who have the blood of innocent SIkhs, Muslims and Christians on their hands? when are they going to be hanged, or do they have the licence to kill anyone just because they are Sarkari and belong to the majority religion.

good riddance to bad rubbish

So the red dot of inequal brahminism on nidars forehead and the Thrisul in his hand doesn't seem like any part of traditional Sikhi pre-Singh sabha to me! The KFC and Johnny walker in his belly don't seem like any part of traditional Sikhi pre-Singh sabha to me either!

http://www.christian...munities-83995/ Following Jesus Yet Still Hindu or Sikh? CHICAGO – It doesn't sound right: someone claiming to be both a follower of Jesus Christ while still identifying himself as a Hindu or Sikh. But some respected missiologists are defending the new communities in India called Yeshu Satsang as biblical. Formed as a direct response to broken relationships that Hindus or Sikhs in India who convert to Christianity often must endure, members of Yeshu Satsangs seek to follow the Bible while still retaining their cultural identity as Hindu or Sikh, and thus retaining harmonious relationships with their family members and community. The communities are also a pushback against Western ways of worshipping Jesus that is seen as "other" and foreign to the community. A Yeshu Satsang can loosely be defined as a gathering of Jesus followers whose members are socially still identified as Hindus or Sikhs. "Even though [they have] rejected the word and practices of church, they have retained a theological identity of church while seeking to retain their Hindu and Sikh socio-religious identity," explained Darren Duerksen, director and assistant professor of Intercultural Studies at Fresno Pacific University, at the recent North American Mission Leaders Conference in Chicago. The Yeshu Satsang leaders Duerksen – who spent six years in India as a missionary and scholar – had met all come from Hindu or Sikh background, and were discipled in Christian churches or parachurch organizations, he shared during the breakout session titled "Must Insiders be Churchless? Exploring 'Insiders' models of 'church.'" Some of these Indian leaders started Yeshu Satsangs after reaching an understanding that distinguishes between the Hindu or Sikh ideology and their commitment to Jesus. These gatherings started some seven to eight years ago, and Yeshu Satsangs are concentrated mostly in Northwest India. Although there is no official count of how many Yeshu Satsangs there are in India, Duerksen estimates that there are at least 40 but less than 100 of these groups, each with at most 15 to 20 members. The missions professor, in general, defended the Yeshu Satsangs that he had observed in India, and advised fellow missions leaders to consider the following points when making judgment about the new communities: • Is the local church incarnational? Does it reflect Jesus? • Is the community of believers committed to each other and Christ? • How do the Yeshu Satsangs seek to shape their socio-religious identity? How do they negotiate their identity within Hindu and Sikh communities? "Each of these Yeshu Satsangs emphasizes the teachings of Jesus as part of the path of following him," said Duerksen. "The Bible, for example, is seen and honored as God's word. It is given a high level of authority. Even where Yeshu Satsangs have a respect for the Hindu and Sikh scriptures, the Bible is emphasized as a higher and the ultimate authority. The Bible is used therefore throughout the Yeshu Satsang meetings. The leaders encourage their people to have their own and to read it on their own during their week." Different Religious Practices While these Jesus followers that Duerksen observed identify themselves as Hindu or Sikh while following the teachings of the Bible, they freely change the Christian religious practices to be more in line with those in their community. For example, instead of using bread and wine or grape juice for communion, Yeshu Satsangs often modify the Christian sacrament and use a coconut and coconut milk. Baptism, in particular, is a sensitive area for Yeshu Satsangs because the groups' leaders feel that it has taken extra-biblical meaning by the way Indian churches conduct them. Baptism of former Hindus or Sikhs is often seen by the church as well as local Indian governments as a change in socio-religious status, with some local governments even imposing a separate set of laws for Christians on the newly baptized. However, while Yeshu Satsangs do baptize new followers of Jesus, they don't ask them to change their social-religious communities. Moreover, they often don't call the practice baptism, but use a more culturally familiar term, such as those used for initiation of disciples by a guru. "So thus, Yeshu Satsangs leaders use the Bible, practice the Lord's Supper, and baptism in ways that reflect their devotion to Jesus but also seek to minimize some of the otherness in the eyes of Hindus and Sikhs," explained Duerksen. Also, Yeshu Satsangs sing songs call bhajans that are similar to Hindu bhajans, which promote a Hindu identity to their neighbors while also helping them praise God without cultural barriers, said the Fresno Pacific professor. Indian Christians who attend traditional churches sing Western hymns or Western-style songs, instead. But one of the more controversial practices of Yeshu Satsangs is that its members still go to Hindu or Sikh temples. The satsang members discuss and decide among themselves which temple events are permissible to attend. Satsang members also will sometimes accept prasad, or food that is offered to Hindu gods. Some of them will accept the offered food to be polite and later discard it when the giver is out of sight, while some will also eat the prasad. Christian churches in India strictly teach that converts cannot accept or eat offered food, but Yeshu Satsang members are more flexible in their teaching on this issue, trying to balance their desire to maintain relationships with their community while also following Jesus. There is no hard and fast rule among Yeshu Satsangs regarding prasad. Yeshu Satsangs do not accept idolatry, however, but they usually allow members a longer time to stop idol worship, waiting for them to mature and naturally understand through Bible studies. Relationship With Wider Christian Community Many Yeshu Satsangs, given the reason why they started, do not actively seek to fellowship with churches in their area in India. Yeshu Satsangs were formed out of what they felt was Indian churches' cultural insensitivity and thus are reluctant to also closely identify themselves with Christian churches. This leads some mission leaders to criticize these communities for their apparent isolation from the wider Christ-following community. "This is an important point, but in this critique we need to be careful not to hold the Yeshu Satsangs or any other beginning insider groups to a standard higher than we hold to our churches and denominations," warned Duerksen. He noted that in Western Christianity there are many examples of churches cutting ties with other churches over differences in practices and doctrines. "Even in contemporary times, various denominations remain highly isolated from and suspect of other churches," he pointed out. "And while we would lament this and urge for greater levels of trust and cooperation, the identity of such denominations as churches would rarely be questioned on the basis of their trust towards others." Relationship With the Hindu or Sikh Community Unlike Jesus followers who attend Christian churches in India, those who are part of Yeshu Satsangs tell their family members that they love Jesus but have not changed their religion. "Religion in this case is understood not so much as doctrines, philosophies or ideologies, but rather as part of the community and its culture," explains Duerksen. "The satsangs are thus arguing that they can stay within their Sikh and Hindu communities, while changing the focus of their personal devotion to Jesus." Duerksen gave an example of one satsang leader identified as Ravi who says he is not a Christian, but a Hindu, even though he is devoted to Jesus. Ravi would defend his Hindu identity even though he follows Jesus by saying, "On my birth form it is written: Hindu. And I live in Hindu style and I speak Hindi. That is why I am a Hindu. Also, Hindu is not a religion, it is a community." Hindus are permitted to pray and give devotions to deities of other communities and still call themselves Hindus, Ravi would point out. "The Yeshu Satsangs are, or seeking to be, subgroups within the Hindu and Sikh communities, while being church in the theological sense," the professor said. "This is clear that the Yeshu Satsangs are pioneering something that is generally quite unique and important to their context and are attracting people who may not otherwise follow Jesus within the context of the Christian church." He continued, "It is too early to say whether or not this model of church will result in a wider movement of Christ followers in India. However, at the very least there is reason to encourage the development of Christ communities that adhere to the biblical contours of church while socially reflecting India's rich identities." Former Hindu Turned Pastor and Missiologist Weigh In While Duerksen mostly praised and defended the Yeshu Satsangs based on his experience, former Hindu and now Pastor Ananth Kumar of First Baptist Church of Rahway in New Jersey had a less favorable opinion. Kumar, who is a Southern Baptist, shared with The Christian Post during the Chicago mission conference that he had visited a Yeshu Satsang in Toronto, Canada that was "shocking" to him. He described the setting as having more flowers, candlesticks and fruits than he had seen in Hindu temples. Kumar said that he felt the over-contextualizing of the satsang could lead to "danger." He noted there was no cross in the building where the satsang demonstration was given, and there was a picture of Jesus with a candle in front of his photo as well as milk and sliced bananas. A photo of Mary and baby Jesus was also on display. "Hindus coming to satsangs and seeing that think, 'Oh, they are doing exactly the same thing that I am, so what is the difference between my temple and this Christian satsang," the former Hindu asked. "That is exactly what happened in Toronto." He informed CP that he asked the satsang leaders how long they have been holding satsangs and how many people have dedicated their life to Christ. The leaders replied that they have been holding such gatherings for several years and there have been zero conversion, zero baptism, and no commitment, according to Kumar. The former-Hindu-turned-preacher was also disturbed that at the satsang in Toronto they used the word Bhagwan, which is a term for God that is not biblical, as well as Ishwar, which is used by practicing Hindus to also refer to God. "This is really wrong," Kumar said of the satsang he witnessed in Toronto. "We definitely didn't feel the presence of God at all … you are totally compromising to Hindu songs. There were no words of yeshu, Jesus was not mentioned in those songs." For the communion, the satsang leaders in Toronto put a slice of banana in the participants' palm and dropped milk on it. "That is totally wrong. That is completely being practiced by Hindus. If I am Hindu in Bombay or Toronto or somewhere, and I practice same thing as communion, then what is the difference between my temple and this Christian satsang?" he asked. "I rather continue to not bother my relatives, not bother religion and not offend anyone. So just let me continue as a Hindu." He recalled his own Holy Communion experience. He had heard the Gospel for two or three months at that time and asked a church leader if he could take part in communion. But the leader asked if he had confessed his sins and received the Lord yet. He said no, and was guided on how to do that. "That day, I closed my eyes, I knelt, I cried, I wept when I saw Christ being crucified. So that was a turning point," recalled Kumar. "So that communion is very important. Communion is fundamental basis of our Christian faith. You cannot compromise that communion with other form used by other religions. Communion is very sacred, that is why we call it Holy Communion. You cannot compromise it with a piece of banana and milk." But Greg Parsons, global director of the U.S. Center for World Mission, cautioned against judging a whole movement by one or a few examples. "I think the most important first thing to realize is these movements are all over the map doctrinally," said Parsons to CP. "So you can't judge one by another." "So if these movements are coming to Christ, and they are focused on the Bible, then they will likely straighten out. If they are not, then they probably won't. And that is the principle of McGavern (Donald McGavern, 20th century missiologist), that the key thing to look at in a movement is, is the Bible central as the authority to them or something else? If the Bible is central, then they will likely get straightened out as they spend more time with the Bible." Read more at http://www.christian...4eTROv1RwrUg.99

Dhan Dhan Guru Teg Bahadur Ji maharaj Dhan Dhan Bhai Dayali Ji Dhan Dhan Bhai Mati Das Ji Dhan Dhan Bhai Sati Das Ji

dhan guru tegh bahadur sahib dhan mati das ji dhan sati das ji dhan bhai dyalaa ji dhan sikhi

Discovery Knowledge Channel (Duration - 60 Minutes) WEAPON MASTERS Chakram 10 September 2008, 18:00:00 11 September 2008, 08:00:00 11 September 2008, 13:00:00 http://www.mikeloades.co.uk/cms/index.php?...6&Itemid=43