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KullyKhalsa you are absolutely spot on. I have been an avid follower of this forum for a few years and there are some great posters on here. I have to say unequivocally that N3OSingh is one of the best posters on this forum. I am a 35 year old Singh who grew up in London England and now lives in Toronto. I have seen Singhs and Jathas on both sides of the pond. I have no association to any Jatha but have a huge respect for all the panthic jathebandis whether it is Taksal, AKJ, Nihang dals. We are all brothers and we have differences, be it the rehit we keep the way we do kirtan, there are so many issues that we do not agree on. Some members promote their own agendas according to the jatha that they follow. It doesn’t matter where you are in the world this is an ongoing problem. Some people think that their version and belief set in Sikhi is correct and anyone who doesn’t agree or offers an alternative thought is wrong. N3OSingh is one of them rare people who looks at the entire picture and realises Sikhi did not start in the early 1900s, the 1950s or in 1984. We as a panth need to respect all our brothers and sisters whether we are Taksal, Akj, Nihangs, Nirmaley, Sevapanthis or Udasis. I am all for healthy discussion but I have a humble request please live your lives and jeevans with an open mind. There is no harm in listening to a different opinion even though you don’t agree with it. If it is harmful to the panth, research the issue and present fact based evidence to the contrary and do parchar that way. Sikhi is not about threatening each other because we don’t agree with a certain opinion. Let’s educate ourselves and discuss as sensible people.

I post here a poem copied from http://sikhanonymous.wordpress.com/page/2/ Its called "Rhyme on Cause and Vision" (more like a rhyme on division) Blinded by a blurring of Vision, the Panth stumbled and created divisions. Rebellious lions roaring without a cause, Ready to strike brothers with sharp claws, We never stopped to pause, Check if this deal was raw. Is this the Real Sikhi Vision? For which shaheeds died and others are in prison, When we do ardaas, do we stop to listen? Or do the words robotically flow like television, Raj Karega Khalsa, isn’t that our mission? Propelled by Vaheguru Fission, Heavenly Bani that we listen, Defeating tyrants with precision. Bringing Heaven to earth, our Cause, Singhs and Kaurs, We’ll change gravity’s laws, The lowly will stand tall, “Great’ empires will fall, Khalsa will rule all, The world will applaud, Freedom, Justice, Equality, and Peace Y’all What we waiting for?

I think this is some great seva. Although I haven't watched most of the videos, but I'm planning on doing that in the the next few days. I was wondering if anyone knows where the Singh doing the lectures and talks has learned from? Where he gets his information from. If he learned from any Ustaad, or read books. What kind of research he's done. It's really inspiring to see. If anyone knows or if the basicsofsikhi account can comment it would be appreciated. Thanks!

logically rationally what PAL 07 says is right, but this forum has proven time and again when it comes to individuals the conversation NEVER stays sensible i mean look at yesterday someone threatened N30singh who i believe is one of the most unbiased contributors to this forum, for saying he disagreed with their opinion on an individual

With the worldwide efforts going on to expose the 84 genocide, its only a matter of time that the crimes against Sikhs are known worldwide. The guilty are very worried at the moment and making statements against Sikhs. They are using their front men like the Overseas Congress and Sanatan Hindu- Sikh group to badmouth Sikhs.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa Waheguru ji ki fateh Despite our various attempts of deleting topics relating to one particular person who is not a member of this forum, we would like to make our stand clear. We do not want nor welcome any post/topic/reply promoting or attacking person named 'Kamalroop'. We do not want anyone (whether it is our veteran member or new member) to use the platform of SikhSangat to talk anything relating to this person. Please do not take an offense from our standpoint but we do not care who you are or how bad you want to write or talk about any particular person. Our forum is not made to talk about other person's character or create a fan base of anyone here. We want this forum to be used as a platform to discuss issues rather than getting into personal wars. To both sides, we do not want your agenda to be promoted here. If you have topics not involving personal attacks then that is more welcome, but other than that, take it somewhere else. To those who still do not understand our standpoint: We will not have anyone here talk negative about AKJ nor we would allow anyone from any jatha to attack any individual unless he/she holds a public position (such as politician etc). Those who defy this will go under-moderation without any notice. Waheguru ji ka khalsa Waheguru ji ki fateh

The other thread you asked if Sikhsangat was a counsellor?

8It was good to see so many British MP's pledge support for Sikh human rights on camera in the link below. The Kesri Lehar are presenting a 118,000 petition to Downing St and then meeting at Westminister Parliament on the 10th December http://www.kesrilehar.co.uk/

The thing is that we need to recognise that we dont all think the same about all scholars, or lets say learned people. There will always be something to criticise someone over, but personally i feel that it is weak to blanket-ban any thoughts or research, or even be scared of research or khoj by people who think different to us. I myself cited the research by a scholar recently who i believe did a tremendous job in a particular field even though i totally disagree with what he thinks Sikhi is. Now personally i dont know this KRS but he has done some good research on a field that remains largely hidden from the sikh sangat. what is more important? this KRP guy or the research he has done? What is more important to you? As neo said, we have a habit of looking at the messenger and then shooting down the message. we need to look at the message and then dissect that ourselves.

Ji, I'm really just a parrot and very uneducated which is why its called basics of Sikhi. i listen to katha by people like Maskeen ji and Bhai Sukhraj Singh from leeds, books like Professor Puran Singh, and of course Baba Wikipedia and SikhiWiki. Gurusahib's hukamnamas from SGGS, and also the sangat of Southall do massive kirpa by giving me tips and what little I know about politics and philosophy from my degree and reading also helps. I came from a background of not knowing Sikhi but learning western philosophy, but also being quite a usual southall lad, so can relate to the youth and the basics

On the occasion of Sahib Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee Maharaj's upcoming prakash utsav (Nov. 10th), here is a tuchh bhet in my SatGuru Patshah Jee's charan. “aao jee padhaaro jee” is a begging to Guru Sahib. Just as He came to this earth, this soul is begging Him to come into this mann. aao jee padhaaro jee, mere SatGur jaan-o-pyaaro jee mai akirtghan avval haan, par Tuhadda raaj-dulaaro jee aao jee padhaaro jee, mai sadh sadh vaaro vaaro jee maya di neendar mai sutta, mann lobh moh hankaaro jee aao jee padhaaro jee, es mann nu aake savaaro jee eh ath mayla ath maleen, edi mayl nu Aape maaro jee aao jee padhaaro jee, es rogi nu nivaaro jee janjaal vikaaran de gunjle, Tusi taar taar utaaro jee aao jee padhaaro jee, es jeevan nu ubaaro jee mere bachan da nah saadhan koi, mai neech moorakh gavaaro jee aao jee padhaaro jee, mere sohney Preetam dildaaro jee sab jhoothhay laare lounde ne, bas ikk Tu hee sachiaaro jee aao jee padhaaro jee, thhand paavo deyo karaaro jee saah ghutt’di agg paapaan di, sunn lao hunn meri pukaaro jee aao jee padhaaro jee, mai tarsaan Tere deedaaro jee Tera roop sohna kinna sohna hai, mai bas sochaan vichaaro jee aao jee padhaaro jee, mere Patshah dayalu udaaro jee charan paavo daas neech ke, mai penda Tere duaaro jee aao jee padhaaro jee, mai tadfaan baaram-baaro jee es birha nu an'dekha kar, imtihaan na lao hamaaro jee aao jee padhaaro jee, bhavsagar ton karo paaro jee Tusi baanh pakad ajj tak taare, hazaar vaari hazaaro jee aao jee padhaaro jee, hunn aa vi jaao Muraaro jee sachee Mehtab te saakat hai, par ehvi te nah visaaro jee - Mehtab Singh Monday, Oct. 31st, 2011

Leaflets and papers with bani and pictures of shaheeds were being given out. Many people didn't want a leaflet but were given one anyway by sevadars. Then I saw the same leaflets on the floor being stepped on with bani on them. I picked all the ones i could see up. Just a benti please don't print bani and pictures on leaflets. Just think about what people do, throw it on the floor.

Sabsai upar gur shabad beechar || Paramount is contemplation on Guru's word From my experience 99.9% of sikhs show zero interest in study of the maharaj (not talking about recitation as in sehaj path) , I think this ignorance and neglect of the core gurmat knowledge is root cause of all problems in sikh samaaj today. Here is a link to download SGGS in english translationa and transliteration http://www.facebook.com/groups/341594932591046/342922462458293/

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh! Could you guys please share some links to really good Katha that would be beneficial to me? Something which will give me a deeper knowledge of Gurbanee, but is simple to understand. I'm having a lot of trouble finding things. I want to start reading Sikhi books to expand my knowledge but I just don't know where to even start, I really just need a starting point. As I'm new to this I was hoping the sangat could give me some recommendations Thankyou all in advance, I hope you can help this moorakh sister of yours get her life on the right path again. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/recognize-sikh-genocide-30000-killed-india-during-november-1984-yes-it-genocide/Py4DhDGg?utm_source=wh.gov&utm_medium=shorturl&utm_campaign=shorturl 25,000 SIGNATURES REQUIRED PLEASE SEND TO ALL CONTACTS, LETS MEET THE QUOTA FOR ONCE

I love that shabad. Have it ripped on my ipod

Sorry so going back to the topic. One should study gurbani and also contemplate on it. With studying gurbani via teekas/katha of gurbani, one can get basic idea and framework an should get a urgue to go deep in conteplation/simran/meditation. Its only after contemplating on gurbani- one perceives/expereinces the gurbani in the most profound way one cannot describe as gurbani is everywhere is actual creation of this whole world and is both nirgun and sargun. Gurbani resosance is always there as its supreme consciouness it's just human just have to attune to it to expereince it. Gurbani speaks through human consciouness. Once human consciouness have expereinced gurbani,their arths of gurbani could more in depth than one is used to hearing by scholars/teekars (not to say those scholars are devoid of spirituality or anything- as they tried writing interpertation gurbani in form teekas as much they can) It just depends on the level of penetration and how one perceives gurbani thats the very reason- why lot of gurbani pankiti could be interpreted as sargun and nirgun(eternal gyan). Sargun because at that moment, thats how gurbani was revealed/experienced to them during contemplation and nirgun because on different moment during contemplation, same gurbani tuk was reveled/experienced to them from gyan(divine knowledge nirgun) aspect in Sikhi..!! For eg- As begineer, if one contemplates on Aad Gur e nameh, Jugad Gur E Nameh, Satgur E Nameh, Sri Gurdev E Nameh, during contemplations depending on perception of an individual,one may expereince/perceives meaning as per uthanka(historical context of gurbani): Aad Gur E Nameh - Guru Nanak Dev Ji Ko Namaskar Jugad Gur E Nameh- Guru Angad Dev Ji Ko Namaskar Satgur E Nameh - Sri Guru Amar Das Ji Ko Namaskar. Sri Gurdev E Nameh - Sri Guru Ram Das Ji Ko Namaskar. Note - Sri indicates one being around maya and controlling the maya. But then slowly one who contemplates more, and more- depending on the growth of their perception and subtleness of their perception/ One human consciouness perceives the same gurbani tuk Aad Gure Nameh Jugad Gure Nameh Satgure Nameh Sri Gurdev Nameh As: I bow to the guiding consciousness that takes us to realisation. I bow to wisdom througout the ages. I bow to True wisdom. I bow to the great unseen Wisdom. Both interpretation/perception of the shabad is correct as they are both perceived by human consciousness at different level- it starts off with sargun and it ends at ekta of sargun with nirgun..!!!!!!! In gurmat, Studying of gurbani is not discouraged, nor contemplation is discouraged, in fact- both studying and contemplation of gurbani are encouraged. However, during contemplation one cannot force his -pre-conceived knowledge of gurbani gained from studying during contemplation.. during contemplation you have to take a dive in to without psycho analyzing gurbani if it naturally comes to you its different story but just make sure its not pre-conceived knowledge super imposing itself during contemplation.

Can anyone recommend a decent (non-online) resource - dare I say "book" - which will allow someone such as myself to study SGGS Ji. I know that the nuances covered by Gurmukhi cannot be fully covered by English, but just something to get me started. Whilst I'm not completely ignorant of the Gurbani I recite I would like to know when I'm encountering something in Gurbani which is a metaphor, as opposed to something which is purely instructional, etc. Don't worry about proper decorum and sucham being afforded to the resource whatever it may be, i.e. I won't be wearing shoes or munching on a biscuit when I'll have it at hand. :biggrin2:

The least offensive gift 4me would be a xbox Kinect . Also chocolat is good and anything in between . No alcohol tho we is good. We giv whisky 2the bin men

Vaheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa Vaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh || I don't mean to start the argument all over, so please forgive me. After all the argument on here about which Sampardayee is Sikh and if Udasis and Nirmale are Sikhs i decided to ask my Sathya Teacher. Since he took Santhya from Vade Mahapurash, i asked him what their Veechar was on the above stated Sikhs. He said Mahapurash used to tell them that there are 4 types of Sikhs: Udasis, Nirmale, Sehaj Dhari, Khande (Amrit) Dhari. All of them have different Maryadas. Please do not argue over this. I just wanted to put it put there. Vaheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa Vaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh ||

She is home alone all day while you are at work? Are you living with your parents? (that can cause much stress to a newly married woman as the sas-nuh rishta is one of the most complicated things in life). I agree with the reply of 'Jangal Da', do NOT put things off. When you both come back to talking terms again, discuss the issue in a calm fashion and come to a mutual understanding.

Oh my dear 'Swati', you really do have no understanding of women from Punjab these days. They'd see you coming a mile off and eat you alive :biggrin2: I'm married to one and can echo alot of the posts here in that they inherently love to fight. Absolutely love it. To the original poster I can say that you can't change the way they are. They're constantly ready willing and able for fights, arguments and altercations. Not just for you but with anybody. Unlike alot of Sikh girls born in the west they don't know the meaning of shyness or timidity. You can't change them so you shouldn't even try. You gotta just accept that thats the way they are. In time, you will realise that their fiesty nature is the least of the things that bug you. You'll realise that their most annoying fault is the way that nobody from Punjab ever screws the lid or cap back on tight enough on any beverage or foodstuff. They even deliberately leave the bottle tops of Coke or Pepsi unscrewed because they think the carbonation is a bad thing and coke will taste better without the gas. They even recommend adding salt to coke to get rid of the 'bubbles'.

Thanks guys for your support guys.. Guru maharaj and mahapursha di full kirpa..!! :D Mahapursh taught me always limit your vechar/discussion/debate towards the ideology as opposed to personality/individual so you don't hurt individual - hari da roop....try not to get into debates, but if you do happen to get into debate..debate around the idea/message or concentrate on message as opposed to messenger not just that be honest with yourself, test yourself each and every second, test your state of mind each and every second. Sit in simran, bring those people who you may have raag(attachment) and dvaish(impartiality) try to naturally feel and see universal vahiguroo di jot in them naturally so you bind them together in the non dual simran. If you can naturally feel the presence of vahiguroo in them also then move on with rest of your simran, if you don't - you have to come in terms with your state of mind and be honest with yourself, if you goofed up- be man enough to admit your mistakes and revise and improve- don't hang on it and move on. It hasn't been easy- sometimes by maharaj kirpa i pass but sometimes due to my over sight and due to my own bad attributes- i goof up and fail..i m not embrassed about it to share- you learn and grow.. thats part of spiritualy journey- you revise and improve and move on..!! On this forum, I goofed up (with sometimes excessive rhetoric speech) in the past but i try to improve.. be honest with myself and rate/test myself- if i fail and i try to improve..!! Sikhi introvert journey just as important (if not more) than sikhi extrovert journey.!!!! Keep it real/original and honest guys..!!

I don't know what xmas is like in Canada but here in England, where Christianity hardly exists anymore, christmas has nothing to do with Jesus and everything to do with the great prophet Santa. The prophet Santa has no religion. He is adored by children of all creeds and faiths. Christmas is a great time for kids. Celebrate it. Just don't go ruining Santa's big day by unecessarily bring Jesus and Christianity into it.

yes ,can confirm that.

Bhaisahib someone like Jathedaar Balwant Singh Rajoana is an inspiration. They say than imitation is the best form of flattery. So we should imitate gursikhs like Bhai Rajoana who have given their all for the panth and are strong like mountains yet full of love, and through following them, we can also imitate our Guru. Guru sahib bless his beloved Panth to walk His Walk, read HIS words and Feel His Love

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ka Fateh. I have come across this person lying or misinterpreting Sikhi with a one sided view. I want to come up with the truth, that is answer his so called rebuttals and illogicality of Sikhi. Can anyone please see his arguments on Sikhi and tell me what the reality behind them is? That is answer his questions? His name is Abu Adeeba: https://www.facebook.com/Islam.Sikhism I have also seen him add many Sikhs as friends on Facebook from whose profiles, I am sure, he takes Gurbani and misinterprets it etc.

Sadh Sangat ji, two latest video on how our channel works and also how people across the world can make use of the materials on it If sangat wish to support us in Plan BE13, please see http://www.virginmoneygiving.com/charities/everythings13 VjKK VJkF

Its in the sikh sangats interest to be aware of those people who are practicing anti-gurmat, so long as there is evidence to support this then i believe a healthy discussion should take place.

Get them to read the english translation of Sri Anand Sahib first. Advise them that they should look at each pauri and try to understand as much as they can. Write the understanding down and then try to implement what they read into their lifes. Then do this again after putting the teachings into practices........contemplate over the same pauris and write down what they can understand now. Slow progress for the misinformed and the less educated. Many youth get introduced to new concept way to fast and they don't have the knowledge to make sense of it all. So they rebel against the concept and just don't even try to learn their mistake. Recently this was witnessed on the thread where members were saying Satguru is not Sri Vaheguru Ji Maharaj. Such topics should not be discussed among the youth. First topics that should be discussed are how they are affected by the five thieves and which one do they struggle with the most. The more Gurbani they read, the better they will understand the five thieves and the more Gurbani they will want to read because they see progress.

I agree, you should try and force yourself with understanding at the same time as studying or looking into it. But, we have to be careful not to scare the young youth away that are trying to find the ropes. To tell them that a lot of studying, understanding and contemplation is required is more likely to scare them away. Instead they need to be assured that if they 'embrace' the gurbani, then the understanding can follow with his grace. It is easy to take the wrong path and misguide yourself. How can we simplify it for the youth of today, without frightening them away ?

I see where you are coming from Singh. I have done the whole studying thing and it has taken me down the wrong path in the past. Listening to Gursikhs, I have not heard once from their mouth that they study Maharaj. They tell Sikhs just to pay close attention when Satguru is talking to them. I did not understand at first what they were saying. It was like talking to a brick wall. With studying we have to force ourselves to understand Gurbani. When you force yourself, then the wrong meaning is taken and we don't get the deeper meaning. You can surely go into studying if that feels right to you, but I'm just trying to let people know they don't have to take the hard path and then learn all we needed to do was listen and Satguru will tell the knowledge to us. Just don't go to the darkside by studying, like Dr. I.J. Singh and many others. :biggrin2:

I guess we are not still clear here Let me give it another shot at this. luckysingh veerji, We are here talking about one particular situation where one side is some members of jatha and other side is one person we mentioned in our original post. You may not be aware of this situation but recently, war of words are flying between them; on facebook and now some are bringing it on our forums or already brought it here since last week. So, we wanted to be clear to them that this forum will not tolerate that. We are getting numerous emails/pm about this and we want to put an end to this. Now your question is whether this forum is akj or majority of them are from this Jatha. Majority of our Forum sewadars are not attached to any jathabandi and that is one of our core belief in order to run independent non-biased forum. We do have our own set of rules not leaning to any jathabandi. We do respect them to the maximum level and do not allow any kintu parantu on any jathabandi known as panthic jathabandi.

Get back to the topic. There should be more studying done of shabads from self and not just listening to others. There should be more posts with sangat contributing to their personal interpretions of gurbani. Bani is interpreted on a few levels.- one is the root message and second is the pesonal message that may be different for each of us. The root message is universal and should be shared amongst sangat. This is a good thread by the op, but there is too much of 'who does what' being talked about.

No it' not offensive. ..don't be silly !! It's offensive to even think what your thinking !!!!! If a sikh does not wish to accept, he will KINDLY decline in a very nice and polite manner. Sikhs are not like jeohavas, we do NOT get offended. Only if you mistake us for hindu or muslim.

Thats not possible because it was same sri sant baba gurbachan singh bhindranwale who got inspired by pandit tara singh narotam again nirmala and his very first write up on six type of avtars how sri guru nanak dev ji was guru avtar so so much so he quoted him and his works right, left and center in his works..so get off listening to tupac- yo yo songs and get some vidya mate and read some sant gurbachan singh khalsa bhindranwale works..!! Soraj parkash granth is written by no other than nirmala bhai sahib bhai kavi singh santokh student of bhai santa singh...i see taksali learn and training students using soraj parkash granth as mandatory source..so what hybrid going to do? remove soraj parkash grant katha from taksal to remove link between taksal and nirmale..heheh....so you again you have no basis mate for that statement you made above..shall we talk about nirmale contributions? its already been discussed..!! Can we get khalistan_zindabad an actual humble taksali student to validate contents of this thread (mine and others) and set the record straight here..if something has to be corrected....i will man up and correct myself....i have no issue doing that..i have done in the past and revise my statements..thats how we suppose to learn and grow!!!

Hehehe..I love this...i was waiting for this one..so predictable...lol..ok lets try different way so they studied from nange udasi sadhus? i didn't know nange hindu udasi sadhus were worldy teachers..how could they after all they are bairaagi udhasi sadhus... so they learnt aspect of sikhi from them...whatever you like it or not..i know people must be thinking how could they study from nange hindu udasi sadhu? what happened to learning from tyar bar tyar naam rasiya bibeki tyaar bar tyaar khalsa? hai hai what happened to their bibek? hai hai manmat RSS hindu? they should have went pesh..hai hai..knock on boparia bhindran kalan gurdwara and demand - sant baba sunder singh bhindranwale come out from sachkhand and pesh himself..hai hai manmat hai hai RSS BJP. where panthic.org with their so called journalism skills..lol when you need them..hahaha.!! It's know fact in puratan times- udasi and nirmale used to teach (spiritual, ayurvedic, gurmat knowledge) to akali nihangs, misal singhs, gristhi singhs alike buts its not a general rule, in fact many great damdami taksal jathedars also teached gurmat/gurbani many udasi without any string attached that they must look like them..yeah same udasi which hybrid types so despise..!! Even right now swami bhramdev "udasi" and gyani sher singh ambala were first ones to come up anti dasam heretics rebuttal while new age hybrid taksali listen to tupac - yo yo songs..!! These hybrid types, have audacity to witch haunt udasi on this for whatever reason..i simply ask them to stop using damdami taksal jathedars name as tokens..they seem to be pretty frustrated/desperate and they will try to remove links of nirmale/udasi with taksal from references pretty border line as what teja singh bhausaria did..so they can keep continue use damdami taksal jathedars as mere tokens for their "propaganda war"..!!

what you on about ? Their lineage goes all the way back to baba deep singh - so i dont know where you got this 20th century stuff from

Jangal paaji - the first blog you provided (http://damdami-bhind...blogspot.co.uk/) in its reference's at the foot of the page, links directly to nang nadars sarbloh website as its first reference point. I think we need to be careful who we reference as saach when looking at the past and our history

Isn't that statement a fallacy? or if not a fallacy, erroneous? We should adhere to Gurbani, and have faith in it. Then as mentioned numerous times in Gurbani there are ghost, pooth, prets, all that nice stuff. I agree, a Gursikh becomes untouchable, but then you call them fallacies. Isn't that a fallacy, saying that pooths and prets are not real/misconceptions but then saying to adhere to Gurbani which states that they are real? If they were not real why would we need Waheguru Ji's protection? (refer to gurbani below please ) Therefore to the OP the best way of looking at this is yes there is black magic, ghosts, evils, w.e. How do we save our selves? hir ismrq ikCu cwKu n johY ] har simarath kishh chaakh n johai || Meditating in remembrance on the Lord, the Eye of Death cannot see you. hir ismrq dYq dyau n pohY ] har simarath dhaith dhaeo n pohai || Meditating in remembrance on the Lord, demons and ghosts shall not touch you. hir ismrq mohu mwnu n bDY ] har simarath mohu maan n badhhai || Meditating in remembrance on the Lord, attachment and pride shall not bind you. hir ismrq grB join n ruDY ]2] har simarath garabh jon n rudhhai ||2|| Meditating in remembrance on the Lord, you shall not be consigned to the womb of reincarnation. ||2|| By seeking the protection of the Lord. Therefore the best prevention/protection is Gurbani. When can we be harmed? When we are weak in our spirituality. Therefore strengthen your spirituality if you are afraid, or give this advice to others if they feel like they need to go to these pandits. But to just trash something because we can't fully see it or understand it is absurd. Time is a tricky thing. We look at it like everyone in the past was ridiculous, blundering around being stupid. Now we are the right ones and we get to scorn those who still live in the past. Not really, it seems much more circular, rediscovering, losing, inventing, reinventing. Everyone is focused on how modern, and progressed the world is compared to the past but look at all the old forgotten sciences which were originally thought to be baseless and our now being researched and validated. The scientific method/thought process is far from perfect but people apply it to everything now a days. Truthfully, science is corrupted. You only research things that make money, or you do research in truly important fields and live broke, get laughed at and your research sits in archives. They get the caste of "untouchable" until some rich guy comes along and wants it researched so he can make money off of it! by this point the original researchers career is over or their dead..... so yeah. Sorry I went on a bit of a tangent, but long story short: it's there, do you're paat, you'll be good. Convince others to do paat as well, they'll be good, and you'll get brownie points!

I totally agree with panthicunity veer- more time is being spent on outward rituals(rituals are not bad as long as right balance is striked) in regards to sri guru granth sahib ji sargun saroop instead of striking a right balance between sargun rituals to upheld satkar of sri guru granth sahib ji, vichar of gurbani and meditating on nitneem and shabad guru. But on a bright side of things i can proudly say resources are widely available and one has to realize and look for them, amount of sikh spiritual material available online and in library is pleasantly surprising. We have close to ten different written teekas of sri guru granth sahib ji/bhai gurdas ji available for gurbani vichar with them offering historical(uthanka), grammar(vikayaran), bhav arth (initial thought behind reciting gurbani pangkitias, anrtiv arth(spiritual arth) aspect of gurbani in sri guru granth sahib ji on top of that- we have sri guru granth sahib larivar audio katha done by sant gyani gurbachan singh khalsa bhindranwale 35 times all have slightly different variations as depending on audience and their depth and also gurbani antriv arths is connected with human consciousness, as soon as human consciousness transcendent towards vahiguroo- perception of spiritual arth of gurbani gets more deeper and transcendent with it. I think in real life things are different but cyber sangat especially youths are slowly realizing importance of doing vichar of gurbani but there is quite bit of improvement we can still do as sangat for example- Have you wondered? why controversial topics gets more hit than deep theological concepts gurbani take on vahiguroo ji, one's own mind, ,soul, one's natural discriminatory power(bibek to filter good from bad) as hans filters moti from garbage.

No, it's not weird to be this clean. I'm the same. I have eagle-like vision when I see a stray bit off fluff on the floor, lol. But even though there's only a couple of people in my house I still like to run a tight ship. I'm not sure how I'd get everyone else to pitch-in if I was in your shoes . Well... there is a particular method I'd use but it involves getting a bit hot and bothered so I don't think it's best if you take that option! It must be so annoying seeing everyone else taking liberties and not pulling their weight. I'd go on a rampage and kick some butts, but that's just me.

Normally i give topics like these a wide berth, but I feel sharing some thoughts today isn't a bad idea. Let me start by saying I don't believe Sikhs are part of what has come to be known as 'Hinduism' today. So if Niddar is of this opinion, I don't share it with him. That being said, I DO think that Niddar has (perhaps inadvertently?) highlighted some important things that many Sikhs seem to prefer to cowardly avoid facing. Regulars here know that I am quite interested in Sikh historiography and the effects of colonialism on Sikhs/Sikh thought, I've posted a few pieces/translations on this in the past. In this context what Niddar does (again perhaps unintentionally?) is to highlight the big difference in Sikh worldview prior to and after the infamous 'annexation' of the Panjab by the British. Anyone even remotely interested in the truth who has done a bit of research would be able to see that prior to annexation the Sikh worldview/cosmology (whatever you want to call it) appears to be more than a little different to that considered the 'orthodox' view today (represented by the Singh Sabha worldview - by this I mean the social reform movement not todays networks of Gurdwaray with the same name). It doesn't take a genius to trace the (admittedly subtle) influence of what we can call 'western enlightenment' type thought as well as protestant Christian on subsequent interpretations of Sikhi. My point is that prior to this respected Sikhs themselves seemed prone to interpret things with a more 'Indic' framework. You can clearly see this in all traditional Sikh works like Bhangu's Panth Prakash, Kavi Santokh's Suraj Granth etc. I sometimes perceive the situation with a pendulum analogy, where colonialism may have swung the pendulum to a western/protestant influenced high, and Niddar types are acting in a reactionary way to this and swinging the pendulum to the other 'Indic' extreme. As with most things, the real truth probably belongs somewhere in the middle of the two respective perspectives. I feel Sikhs acting like we have absolutely no connections to the beliefs which existed in Panjab prior to Sikhi are as guilty of misrepresentation as those who claim we are Hindus. What is most sad is that apnay can't see the clear opportunity for debate and learning in all this and turn Niddar (who has his faults) into some pantomime villain. If any apnay 'lose faith' over issues like this, I'd say they were pretty unintelligent or weak minded in the first place.

OP, did you get jiggy with her? if you did, then sure you need to go.

your married singh surely this is a discussion you should have with your wife...asking sangat if you should kiss your wife is a bit weird

In no particular order... Back To The Future The Rocky Horror Picture Show Aliens Star Wars Toy Story Man, it's hard just selecting 5 only but I KNOW that Back To The Future is going to be in any movie list. Such an awesome film!!!!

WJKK WJKF, Last year one of my viewers of the TV programme sent me this photo of a notice that was on the noticeboard at Seven Kings Gurdwara. After i did a few enquiries news emerged of a fraud that had been committed by a committee member and that had been discovered and exposed by the incoming committee. It emerged that there was some hera pheri in the donation receipts and that the amounts donated by the Sangat did not tally with the amounts on the counterfoils. I set this as a topic to be discussed on one of my shows however low and behold on the same day around lunchtime i received a call from the Pardhaan of the Gurdwara. At first his tone was "you want to make yourself popular by highlighting this". i reminded him that i was already well known for many years. He then tried the tact of "you will only make our religion weaker if you expose this on TV". i was quite stunned by the fact that exposing crime is seen to be weaking the religion as opposed to actually committing the crime. Anyhow after much thought i decided not to talk about it on TV as it would bring negative publicity to the religion. However what i am interested is in is the following: 1). What has the follow up to this been? I have heard that a "behind closed doors" apology has been made by the culprit but not in front of the Sangat. 2) Secondly i have been informed that the culprit has been asked to repay the amount he stole in interest free instalments. 3) Why has no police report been made in this case. It is a clear case of theft from a charity or an employer. If a thief comes to our house and tries to steal our TV we are on the phone to the police like a shot. This person was allowed to steal from the Sangat for a consistent period of time. Upon discovery no police report was made. Instead this person was told you can pay it back in instalments interest free. 4). This person has not been banned from the Gurdwara. Why not? 5). Last year he was seen serving langar at the Seven Kings Nagar Kirtan. 6). There are rumours that he is a small part in a larger series of frauds. this is not confirmed but has been given as an explanation for perhaps an attempted cover up. 7). Why has this not been covered by any media or any websites? (my apologies if it has). 8). Has anybody living in Seven Kings got any update on this?

Discovery Knowledge Channel (Duration - 60 Minutes) WEAPON MASTERS Chakram 10 September 2008, 18:00:00 11 September 2008, 08:00:00 11 September 2008, 13:00:00 http://www.mikeloades.co.uk/cms/index.php?...6&Itemid=43

This Above All Memories that haunt Khushwant As soon as Jyoti Grewal’s Betrayed by the State: The Anti-Sikh pogrom of 1984 (Penguin) landed on my table, I put aside other work and got down to reading it. The author has impressive scholarly credentials. She has a doctorate in history from an American University (Stony Brook), was professor at another (Iowa) and is currently teaching Social Behaviourial Sciences in Dubai. The subject is of importance to me. I was involved and have written about it many times. There are questions to which I have not yet found convincing answers. Why did it happen? Who was primarily responsible for its happening? Why was it not prevented from happening? I was hoping to find answers in Jyoti Grewal’s book. Alas! Before I give reasons for being disappointed, let me concede that she writes very well and does not spare anyone concerned—Bhindranwale, Indira Gandhi, Giani Zail Singh, Rajiv Gandhi, Ribeiro, KPS Gill, et al. However, her analysis of the Hindu-Sikh divide, equating Jat Sikhs with the Khalsa Panth and giving a lower status to non-Jat Sikhs (pejoratively known as bhapas), is flawed. She is herself a Jat Sikh. Above all, she has very little new to tell us of the extensive anti-Sikh violence following the assassination of Mrs Gandhi. Her publisher should have advised her to fill in the gaps in her narrative. Jyoti Grewal holds that the Hindu-Sikh divide is the basic point in the evolution of Sikhism. She toes the line of Sikh separatists who never stop shouting from their housetops hum Hindu nahin hain (we are not Hindus). If she read the sacred scripture, the Adi Granth, she would notice that over 90 per cent of the names of God are Hindu—Hari, Ram, Govind, etc. Even the last of the Gurus, Gobind Singh, invoked Shiva to give him strength to fight his oppressors. All the Ten Gurus were Khatris, not one was a Jat. So was Banda Bahadar, the founder of Sikh political power in Punjab. Despite occasional differences, inter-marriages between Hindus and Sikhs of the same caste are common. What the Gurus, particularly Guru Gobind Singh, gave them was a distinct outward appearance and rituals A clean-shaven Sikh became a Hindu believing in Sikhism as are millions of Punjabi and Sindhi Hindus who prefer chanting Sikh prayers, which they can understand, rather than reciting Sanskrit shlokas, they can’t. They go to gurdwaras rather than Hindu temples. The borderline dividing the two communities is, as it always has been, blurred. Relations between the two are, as they have always been, nauh maas da rishta (as nail is to the flesh from which it grows). The relationship changed with the emergence of Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale as the leader of the radical Khalsa. There is good reason to believe he was picked up by Giani Zail Singh to undermine the influence of the Akalis in rural Punjab as a counterfoil to the Jat Congress Chief Minister Darbara Singh, against whom the Giani had a life-long feud. There is no truth that Zail Singh (non-Jat) was anti-Jat, as alleged by the author. He was repeatedly elected to the Punjab Assembly and Parliament from predominantly Jat constituencies. Relations between Hindus and Sikhs began to sour when Bhindranwale started using abusive language for the Hindus and his goons went on a spree of indiscriminate killings of Hindus and Sikhs who disagreed with him. No Sikh leader spoke up against him. Lesser people who did were eliminated by his thugs. The government, advised by Zail Singh, mishandled the situation. When he was arrested on charges of murder, Zail Singh as Home Minister had him released on his own terms. Then he went out of hand. Far from being a tool of the Congress, he became a leader in his own rights, moved into the Golden Temple and fortified it. If Zail Singh is to be believed, he knew nothing about the Army being ordered to storm the Golden Temple, and was deeply hurt by the operation. Later, he decorated the officers who had carried out Operation Bluestar. He lost all credibility. However, as President, without consulting MPs or chief ministers, he swore in Rajiv Gandhi as successor to Indira Gandhi after she was assassinated on October 31, 1984. What followed remains a mystery. To start with there was a spontaneous outburst of anger against Sikhs. Zail Singh’s cavalcade on its way from AIIMS to Rashtrapati Bhawan was stoned. Some Sikh-owned property was set on fire. The eruption could have been quelled by a show of force. It was not. It is evident that the coterie surrounding the new Prime Minister met and decided that the Sikhs had to be taught a lesson. So the Delhi Administration and the police remained spectators to the excesses committed on innocent Sikhs. Over 3,000 of them were murdered in two days. Twentythree years and nine commissions later we still don’t know who were the men who allowed this dastardly crime against the nation to take place.

Using ‘cats’ to fight terror not unusual: Amarinder Ajay Banerjee Tribune News Service Amarinder Singh comes out after meeting S.S. Virk at the PGI, Chandigarh, on Monday. — Tribune photo by Manoj Mahajan Chandigarh, September 10 The issue of keeping “cats”- militants-turned police informers, today snowballed into a political controversy with former Chief Minister Amarinder Singh saying the police used “cats” to tackle terrorism all over the world and Punjab was no exception. Hinting at wide ramifications of registering a case against former Punjab DGP S.S. Virk for allegedly maintaining “cats” to fight terror, Amarinder Singh said “there may be hundreds of such operatives in Kashmir and Nagaland”. How else can terrorism be curbed without infiltrating into their ranks? he asked alleging “ show me one police officer in Punjab who did not use ‘cats’ for undercover operations. The arrest of Virk was a “tragedy”motivated by political vendetta launched by Punjab Chief Minister Parkash Singh Badal and his son Sukhbir Singh Badal. Amarinder said he was in touch with the Congress high-command and Virk would be defended. The former Chief Minister spent close to 30 minutes with Virk in a private room in the PGI here today. Virk was referred from the civil hospital Mohali to the PGI for treatment of his hypertension. A medical board comprising senior doctors from the surgery, internal medicine and cardiology was set up. It examined him and advised Virk be admitted to the hospital. Virk has been on a sort of “hunger strike” since arrest by the Punjab Vigilance Bureau on Sunday morning. He has refused to eat anything. A senior cop cajoled him into having tea this morning. Virk, in the past, has been treated for cancer of the urinary bladder. During his admission at the PGI, his heart functions needed to be assessed in addition to achieving good blood pressure control, said the PGI. Amarinder said Virk had high morale and did not crumble or let emotions take over as the two met. Amarinder was accompanied by a couple of loyalists and the director PGI had deputed a team of doctors to brief Amarinder Singh on Virk’s condition. Meanwhile Amarinder Singh ,talking to media persons, said he could not comment if “cats” had operated in Punjab during terrorism with the knowledge of the central intelligence agencies or the government of India. Amarinder Singh said it was Badal who ordered the arrest of Virk and not Sumedh Singh Saini director of the VB. How can Saini, an IG-level officer order the arrest of serving DGP ? Badal was lying when he said through his media adviser that such matters did not require the intervention of the Chief Minister. The IPS and IAS officers were backbone of the country and running such vendetta campaigns would demoralise the entire police force. How would terrorism be tackled if such things happened later?, Amarinder asked. Asked if he apprehended more arrests Amarinder said “ask Badal and Sukhbir”. Punjab government violated every section of the law while arresting Virk. The government sought no prior permission from either the Union Home Ministry or the Maharashtra government while arresting the IPS officer, he said. Virk is a Maharashtra cadre IPS officer. ‘Virk came to the state when terrorism was at peak. “ He served the country very loyally and fought terrorism”, Amarinder added.