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It is not befitting of a Sikh of the Guru to put up a Christmas tree in his/her house. Firstly we are not Christians that we need to celebrate this holyday of Yasoo Masee. Secondly if your excuse is that you are celebrating it because it is a European pagan holyday, then please do your self a favour and look at yourself in the mirror and see for yourself, YOU ARE NOT A GORA! so stop trying to act like a coconut because that's exactly what you are if you celebrate Christmas by putting up a tree. A Sikh should be very careful living in the west. If you celebrate these non Sikh holydays with your family what kind of sanskaars are you giving to your children? you are basically confusing your children who will grow up thinking it is perfectly okay to celebrate Christmas and by extention Hanakah and even Eid! then we wonder where we went wrong when our confused girls grow up marrying Muslims and Christians. December is not a month for us to celebrate. Our Sahibzadas and Mata Gujri Ji were Shaheed in this month. This is a HUGE tragady. So remember these Shaheedis before cheerfully celebrating Christian holydays. TORA SHARAM KARO!!

Pagan worship the Christmas tree by putting gifts underneath it. The Hindus put food in the stone idols mouth and then also give it gifts. Yet the latter is cursed at by those who put up Christmas trees The father takes a big bite out of a somsa with chutni dripping from the side of his mouth.........stupid hindus and there idol worship..........bunty can you get my tea bottle from under the Christmas tree your mom needs it for work..............but daddy its not christmas morning...........okay son........wait till tomorrow.........opens his newspaper and sees a picture of RSS.............stupid bloody fools and their jai mata jai mata.............in the backgroundthe kids have a Christmas song playing........ That is what you call education in punjabi homes I know many of you were having fun with this thread and by doing so concealing the seriousness of this thread, but why curse one idol over the other. Either accept both or deny both. We know Satguru did not accept idol worship; example don't put them in your house. Idol worship is idol worship, whether that is of a stone or of a tree. Also for those that say the tree has become a marketing tool. Well so has idols of Hindu Gods. I have heard many times from punjabis mouth that we don't worship the idol..........it looks nice. The christmas tree becoming a marketing tool is not a valid point. An aware Sikh would not just think of it as a marketing tool, but will understand the deeper reason of it. Intentional ignorance does not mean we do idol worship of a tree. But from last year, I see many have moved away from the tree and caught on that it is a form of idol worship. :biggrin2: One step forward and Satguru moves a thousand steps closer to you.

My cousin sister's best friend used to keep a geometry compass with her whenever she used to board buses in India. One good prick can make any pervert moan in agony and jump a few feet away.

Just got back from the candle light vigil in the same city where this school is located. I must say, it was raining, it was freezing cold, yet people came in thousands to pay tributes to those souls.

Congratulations to sikh sangat.The news is that sikh youth has won elections of Surrey,BC Guru ghar.They trounced moderate slate by about 6000 votes.

Sikh Youth Slate: 10287 Moderate Slate: 4330 Akaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal!!!!

Good post Johnny Veer, I also made similar post in the past regarding Christmas topic. We Sikhs have so much enrich, emotional, moving history/ events such as gurpurb of ten guru's, gurgaddi, shaheedi-divas of singh, singhanis, sants/murida barsi through out the whole year yet i don't understand how could we get time(let alone desire) to indulge in outside events let alone outdated capitalist pagan ritual..!! I be honest my sister bought a Christmas tree last year for kids i was disappointed i told her not next time, this year so no christmas tree but with that being said my wife still has to come in terms with her obsession of celebrating halloween, she has been consistently celebrating Halloween party for kids ( also my nieces and nephew) for past 5 years..i go nuts when that happens every year but at this year i just let it go, sometimes within marriage, you just gotta take back seat, zoom out and watch maharaj lella..!!

We have a tree in our house and it doesn't make a difference to us that it's there. It's not stopping us doing our Nitnem, it's not enticing us towards the panj chor and in no way is it turning us into Christans or to idol worship. It's no different to the other plants in my house. Yes, it makes an appearance at this time of year and then disappears again for the rest if the year, we don't become honorary Christians for 2 weeks because of a tree - if it did, I'd be questioning the strength of my faith, not the tree.

http://www.sikh24.com/2012/12/sikh-youth-slate-wins-landslide-victory-in-surreydelta-gurdwara-elections/#.UM-N9OR9Lfc VANCOUVER, BC, Canada (December 17, 2012)–In an unexpected turn of events, the Sikh Youth slate running in the elections at Guru Nanak Sikh Gurdwara won a resounding landslide victory against their “moderate” opponents. The election represents a complete reversal from the period between 1997 and 2008 when the “moderate” committee of the Gurdwara was considered unassailable, racking up huge victories in elections. In 2008, Panthic Gursikhs decided to make one more effort to unseat the “moderate” committee which had never organized an amrit sanchaar at the Gurdwara and which openly and proudly defied Akal Takht Maryada on the issue of tables and chairs in the langar hall. Since then, the Sikh Youth slate has racked up 3 election victories (although the first one was invalidated by the courts for technical reasons), with each successive victory proving bigger than the last. Bhai Rajinder Singh Dhaliwal is the incoming president of the Gurdwara Sahib and he along with his committee have pledged to carry on the work started by the current committee, which has placed a special emphasis on making the Gurdwara Sahib more accommodating towards youth.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh veerji. My original post was in the form of question because I saw it drifting around Facebook and no one said it wasn't true and others assumed it to be true as well. It is my fault for that assumption, but how do we confirm? Can someone kbow knows Akaal Takhat Sahib jathedar or someone well spoken ask him to confirm ?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh Singh559 Veerjeo, I really hope you don't think I am being irreverent towards you or anyone else, but I'm curious to know where did you hear this news from? Does it come from some newspaper article? or is it based on some gupt information? I think a suitable, practical course of action can be devised by the sangat once we have ascertained and verified the source of our information, but without any hard evidence all that becomes very difficult and speculative, as you can imagine. I personally haven't read anything about it in Ajit or other Punjabi newspapers, and I really doubt something as big and eventful as this can be carried out in total secrecy, but then I may be totally wrong, of course.

Language is a very powerful tool. You have to learn how to use it well. The word 'moderate' , to the average man and woman in the world, means level-headed, sane and fair. By saying in your title how the youths have defeated the 'moderates', it translates as hot-headed insane and unfair extremists have defeated the sane and the fair. The people you call 'moderates' are in fact the extremists. There is Sikhism and the tenets of Sikhism is all too clear. The Sikh youth you talk about are the moderates because they adhere to Sikhism without any distortions. The ones you call 'moderates' are the extremists because they think they can distort Sikhism to suit their own purpose and political beliefs. So extreme in fact that they distort it for the benefit of India rather than Sikhism. Thats about as extremist as extremism gets.

I haven't seen any official news online but if true, this is a great result and something that Sikh youth in other countries need to emulate. The Gurdwaras have so many resources which if utilised properly could bring about a renaissance of Sikhi in every country. Unfortunately the youth rather than taking part in bringing these resources to the community allow the oldies to waste the resources and treat the Gurdwaras like they are their ancestral property.

Chatanga jee, today in India if you see Sikh celebrating Hindu holydays, they say the same thing, "I'm not sure this day really celebrates Hinduism I just do it because it's fun and the children enjoy it", if this type of thinking will not confuse one's children then what will? Maintaining Sikhi in the west is not easy. Everything is going against us. We are literally going against the flow. We need to give our children as much Gurmat Sanskaars as possible. How can we possiblly be cheerful and put up a Christian tree while our Sahibzadaas and Mata Gujri Jee were Shaheed during this time of the year? and still hope that our children will grow up with Gurmat Bibek Budh? Secondly why is celebrating Christmas okay and not celebrating Hindu holydays? As only five jee mentioned, I myself have also seen some sikhs who say RSS this and RSS that yet they act like hypocrites and celebrate Christmas! why is one AamMat holyday okay while a holyday from another AanMat not acceptable? Buying your children stuff during this time of the year one should give it to them like it is any other time of the year. Don't make it look like something special by gift wrapping it like you are giving it to them because it's Christmas. Don't confuse your children by making them think Christmas is a special day.

My assessment of the situation with regards the abject failure of the Sikhs to protect their own interests in the years leading up to the transfer of power and corresponding massacre... Is that the Sikhs at the time were always on a hiding to nothing from the moment they had the fallacy to imagine that their comparitively recently acquired economic power/wealth would automatically translate to the safeguarding of their own interests. (our ancestors weren't always so wealthy and had only really experienced wealth on a mass scale since around 1800) In summary, they, and their leaders, were simply waaay too over confident. They placed too much faith on others. Firstly, on the British, to honour their wealth, social status and history of service to the empire. (like they really cared) Secondly, on Gundhi & Nehru, the two of whom they miserably failed to understand, and the Hindus at large. Thirdly, you could add, on their erstwhile friends, companions and neighbours, the Muslims, whom they hadn't expected to take advantage of the hapless minority Sardar in the most indecent and cruel manner. In short, they trusted just about everyone except themselves and each other! Similar story eh. I'm quite sure that the proud recent ruler status of the minority Sikh nation could not have played less than a significant part in motivating all three of the above to some extent or other in successfully attempting to gain comeuppance at the expense of their former rulers by betraying the Sikhs so callously. What the Sikhs at the time really failed to realise... (unlike their not distant ancestors)... is that during times of political, social, economic turmoil... when a man doesn't know what is about to happen next let alone in 5, 10, 20 years time... Wealth and social status (in any form other than ability to acquire manpower and weapons) counts for SWEET F A. That's why they got battered before, during, and after 1947, except for the two weeks from the latter half of August 1947, when, with the not unconsiderable incitement, provocation, assistance and motivation of the Hindu RSS (I ain't about to pretend it ain't so), they managed to save some sort of face for the humiliating and quite unprecedented comprehensive loss they had suffered. Unfortunately, the Sikhs, on a massive scale, failed to learn from this hopeless episode. The saying goes "you've decided where to make your bed... so now lie in it." Therefore, they have continued, on the whole, to maintain the acquisition, retention, and creation of wealth, the major, if not, sole objective of their existence. They have mostly discarded the pursuit of halemi khalsa raaj for a mere survival existence founded on compliance and sometimes downright collaboration with the natural enemies of the path revealed by the SatGuru, whom they claim to follow. So SatGuru Maharaj has given them what they have asked for. I.e. Wealth. Not Justice. Which is quite fine. Because Maharaj has given them what they asked for. So everyone's happy. Right? Just one problem. That the natural consequence involved with this mentality, i.e. excessively materialistic behaviour and blind pursuit of wealth, is that, quite inevitably, they are consigning themselves to repeat the same mistake over and over again. Refer the jewish nation. Successful nations are those that learn and re-learn, and apply, and adapt to the changing situation accordingly. Those nations that fail to do this disappear off the map. This is evolution put into practice. Survival of the fittest. Anyway, it seems that the Sikh nation learnt nothing out of their holocaust in 1947. They have continued on the same track, making the same mistake, and I'm sure they will continue to. Which is a real shame, as it bears no relation to their ancestors that I read about. What happened to the businesses and vast landownings they lost in 1947. Did Maharaj feel pity on them and give it back? No, but they went all out to recover it all the same. There are so many obscenely rich Sikh millionaires with so much property but how many of them are bearing the best arms or even educating themselves or their children about their heritage and path? Sant jee woke up the Quom. Many elders still feel the loss of the leadership that he provided because it has never been replaced. He reminded us of our path and he spelt out for us how to put it into practice. Not slogans, not words. Actions, and deeds. However, whether the Sikhs will finally accept the 52 Hukamnamay of The Tenth King, which the great Sant Jee held so dear, is a matter I will leave for another day.

This is absolutely ridiculous!!! Go to Harmandir Sahib full shastardhari! I went as well and I felt these vibes from people with my sister and myself while waiting in line. They were scared while she was standing next to me, but I knew what was up. We need proper leadership and real sharda wale Sikhs in SGPC. Most of them wear kakaar and grow out a dhari just to run in elections. All they care about is filling up their own pockets. This is the cold truth that the GOI doesn't want to get out there because it invigorates the Sikh spirit to fight corruption. If we remain ignorant the baagi spirit dies as it has in Punjab.

Ask your doctor first. Without seeing the baby, I can only guess, but it sounds like in that age group it could either be infected eczema or folliculitis. In my practice I have never advised hair removal for any scalp infection of my own patients (whatever the type of infection) and never known this to be a problem, whether using topical or oral agents.

There are two slates running, the Sikh Youth Slate (http://votesikhyouth.ca/) and the Moderate Slate (http://bcmss.org/Home.html). The Sikh youth first won the election in 2008 but the Moderates led by Balwant Gill didn't want to lose power so they took the youth to court over some errors in paperwork. So another election was called in 2009, which a new Sikh Youth Slate (but still supported by the old one) won by 2/3 of the votes. There was overwhelming support for the Sikh Youth. The day of the elections in 2009 many kids with huge signs reading: Vote for our Future, Vote For Sikh Youth stood outside in the rain all day long. Many Kattar(strict) moderates called into the radio after and during the election and said that these kids have melted our hearts, when we had left home we had planned to vote for the Moderates but when we saw the kids standing in the rain and cold weather asking us to look at their future it hit our hearts. We were acting out of ego voting for the moderates just because of some petty issues like tables and chairs, we realized that Youth were the future and we need to protect our future so we voted for the Sikh Youth. This years election: It is a different Sikh Youth slate but it has the support of the old slate and there are 3 members from the old slate on the new slate. The president on the new slate was the Treasurer on the previous slate. The Sikh Youth have done a lot to improve the Gurdwara Sahib and the community. They have had many Smagams, seminars, camps, weekend programs etc. There have been many many amrit sanchars. When the moderates were in power for 13 years there was not even ONE AMRIT SANCHAR!! For a list of what the Sikh youth have done go to: http://www.gurunanakgurdwara.ca/cat_1/2010-2012-gnsg-program-recap I can go on and on about what the good the youth have done and what the moderates did (basically nothing) while they were in power. But that will be pointless. The moderates run on the platform of putting tables and chairs back in the langar hall, and putting thapars for those wanting to eat on the ground. The youth took away the tables and chairs but left some on the sides for the elderly and those that have physical problems. They also have some other points, most of which are good things, like making a gym, cleaning the gurdwara, following Akal Takhat Maryada etc. But the Youth is already doing all of these. The Youth already follow Akal Takhat Maryada. The youth is already doing construction and a gym is part of the plan. The Sikh Youth have done so much in the past 3 years. It can't all be counted. I'll give my personal experience. I helped out with the Sikh Youth since the beginning From the first elections till now. Politics will always happen, but these guys are truly dedicated to doing parchar of Sikhi and Gurmat. Three main camps are held every year for kids. I've been lucky enough to do seva in every single one of them. Hundreds of kids come to these camps, they learn about Gurmat, they meet other Gursikh kids their age and they get to eat nice food and play games. How else do we keep kids away from gangs and drugs? Join them to the the religion and community. When they have good sangat they won't go to drugs and gangs. One of the biggest accomplishments of the Sikh Youth is the Sunday Youth Darbar. This is one of the best programs ever to run in a Gurdwara. Both parents and the children come into the darbar and a little bit keertan,simran and katha in english is done. The darbar gets so packed that there isnt a place to sit when these darbars happen. I can speak from personal experience here again, my neighbors who are not into Sikhi at all and are the kind of family you wouldnt expect at the gurdwara go to these programs every week. My other neighbours who are radhasoamis also started going to these programs. Its not just the kids the parents come as well, and they learn as well. There can be no mehma done of the Sikh Youth. They've brought the entire community together. This is a BIG Gurdwara and it has lots of media attention. Whenever something big happens in the world the media looks towards this Gurdwara for a statement, for a program. When tragedy in Haiti happened the entire community got together with the Gurdwara and raised money and sent sevadaars to Haiti. When the shooting at the Gurdwara in wisconsin happened the Gurdwara Sahib did collective simran and an Ardas for the victims, and raised money. The media all came to the Gurdwara that day. This Gurdwara is the centre of the Community. There are other Gurdwarai in the Surrey area, but this is the oldest and biggest and the one everyone looks to whenever something happens. If the Sikh Youth lose this election the Gurdwara will fall from the Panths hands. So everyone in the Surrey area that is a member of the Gurdwara Sahib, don't be lazy, don't be worried about the cold and rain (and snow as it just started snowing here but who knows how long that will last) and go out VOTE FOR THE SIKH YOUTH!!

Last year we had a very robust discussion here about the hollowness of so called Sikhs who put Christmas trees in their houses. Lot of us learnt from that discussion and agreed to stop following this mindless ritual at their houses. I hope this trend is followed by more and more Sikhs all over the world.

1G Event Details: http://www.1guk.com/shaheedi-smagam-2012 FaceBook Event: http://www.facebook.com/#!/events/544774658883445/?fref=ts With the Grace of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaaj, London Youth have organised a National Smagam in the loving memory of our inspirational brothers the beloved SahibZadeh; Baba Ajeet Singh Ji, Baba Jujhaar Singh Ji, Baba Zoravar Singh Ji, Baba Fateh Singh Ji and Mata Gujhar Kaur Ji. The Smagam will take place at: Guru Amardas Hall (Opposite Guru Amardas Gurdwara) 1A CLIFTON ROAD SOUTHALL UB2 5QP There will Talks/Katha in English by various national speakers, and a diwans by Nirvair Khalsa Jatha. The whole Akhand Paath Sahib will be done by UK Born Sikhs. A special two day Sahibzade Sikhi Camp has been organised on the 29th and 30th December 2012, for application forms and more information please see attached poster. There will also be numerous stalls throughout the Smagam; Boss Stall - Selling 1984 merchandise and various books/literature Sikh Organisation of Prisoner Welfare Charity (SOPW) Sikh Antiques 1G Stall - Free Literature and CD's. Various Old Handwritten Pothis from the 18th/19th century will be displayed for the Sangat to see during the evening Diwans. An Amrit Sanchaar will take place on 30th December 2012, starting at 5pm. (For more details, or you wish to take amrit please give names to: 07958112975). Seva opportunities available throughout the whole Smagam, please contact us on; Donations / General Enquries: 07958112975 For Akhand Paath Sahib details, Jap Ji Sahib Rauls/ Akhand Paath Seva: 0783706621 Camp Applications / Seva: 07912615554 For more information and Seva opportunities please contact: 07958112975 be-1@live.co.uk Facebook: BeYouth Youth-Project Facebook Event: http://www.facebook.com/#!/events/544774658883445/?fref=ts ________________________________________ Full Smagam Timetable: 28th Dec 2011: 4pm - Arambta Sri Akhandh Paath Sahib Pooranmashi Diwaan till late. 29th Dec 2011: 9.30am - 4pm: SIKHI CAMP FOR AGES 8-12! 5pm - Rehraas Sahib 5.30pm - Keertan 6.30pm English Katha - Bhai Amarpreet Singh (Mani) 7.15-9pm - Nirvair Khalsa Jatha - *Special English Katha and Keertan Diwan* 30th Dec 2011- (Sikh Channel will be recording the Divaan) 9.30am - 4pm SIKHI CAMP FOR AGES 13 - 15 and 16+! 3pm - Open Question and Answer Session (Can ask on the day or email us before hand). 4pm - Siree Akhand Path Sahib Bhog, Aarti and Kirtan by Bhai Hari Singh. 5pm - Start of AMRIT SANCHAAR 6pm - Katha by Bhai Kuljit Singh (Leister) 7-9pm - Nirvair Khalsa Jatha - *Special English Katha and Keertan Diwan* POSTERS ATTACHED! Please Attend and spread the word!!

why dont ragi's sing it more often? I find it awe inspiring that the rehat maryada of most samparde (?) place the singing of Bhai Sahib's Bani at the same level of the true great 11th master, the writings of the amazing 10th master, and Bhai Gurdas JI.

Cisco singh hot air on both sides - im not the one calling out challenges and wanting a fight "turn up to the akhara then, if you think you bad" - "say it to his face then"- I actually want a discussion! I tell you what leave kulbir and the taksali's , we can do one better we can get NIhangs to converse with Nidar, who better to say what the NIhangs do and don't beleive then they themselves.... and the KFC thing, i am not joking - i thought it was like crazy too, i can get the guy to join up and say it officially ask Nidar's students they will tell you.... they went to KFC afterwards.......

I was thinking about this, why not have a debate? It will give both sides a chance to get their views across. But the downside is, that will either side be willing to change stance if they know they have been proved wrong? I mean even that fool ghagga admitted he would change certain words in his books, after kulbir singh told him a few points from gurmat angle. Would nt it be better for the Sikh Panth?

Do simran...

Get married asap and be done! My sister was 18, and my best friend was 25, and they met at a Sikh youth camp 30 years ago, got married within 3 months, and now they have four gurmukh sons, the youngest is turning out to be an inspiring fiery parcharak and kirtaniya. If you truly love each other do not waste time but get married asap in a nice Khalsa Amritdharee way. Invite me too! haha. No need to drag it out and wait for education and jobs and all. Do things the right way and Gurujee will bless you with everything. The more you drag it, all kinds of unfortunate things can happen and you will be walking with lots of guilt etc. So get married the fastest you can. I say this bcause I can feel your true love for each other is a done deal.

I thinks the following attachments might help understand about the importance of Gurbani in relation to (not as opposed to) Gurmantar. These are excerpts from the book "Naam te Naam da data Satguru" written by Bhai Saheb Bhai Randheer Singh Ji. The gist of it all is as quoted: "Gurbani di sahaeta ton bina naam de simran vich navin chardi kala nahin wartdi, jo gurbani paran sunan wale naam abhiyaasi di dasha vich wartdi te pallardi hai, kyonki Gurbani te naam dono ot-pot han. Gurbani di paaras kala di sahaeta ton sakhne nire naam de abhiyaasi aksar khardi kala vich reh jande han." (apologies for lousy transliteration) In English: Without the help of Gurbani, there is no Chardi-kala (uplifting?, uprising?) in the chanting of Naam (Gurmantar/Waheguru)...that happens in the case of a seeker who reads and listens to Gurbani, because Naam and Gurbani are bother interrelated. Without the 'paras-kala' (?don't know correct translation?) of Gurbani, mere chanters of Naam, usually have no progress spiritually. Edit: point being that Mool Mantar and Gurmantar are inter-related. It's not wise to speculate which one is stronger than the other.

There's a few people I know of who are being invited to church ceremonies on a regular basis (apart from the standard weddings of their white friends), and I can see where it's leading. Their kids look at fellow Sikhs as if they're aliens. Now that's not solely due to frequenting a church on the odd occasion, but it all adds up in terms of the parents giving the impression to their kids - even on a subconcsious level - that they aren't really bothered about their own faith.

The British also put into the terms of reference 'Other Factors' which the Sikhs believed meant Religious Shrines and Economic ties. As one of the Sikh leaders said, basing partition on head count would mean taking the land off the landowners and giving it to the tenants. I believe that had Churchill or another Conservative been Prime Minister, they would have taken more time over the handover and possibly placed more emphasis on the land ownership than the Socialist Labour Party leaders did. Muslims who were tenants suddenly became the landowners. The Sikhs owned the majority of the land in the central Punjab and yet most of that area went to Pakistan. Even after the Sikhs had left the Muslims on the border areas were still nervous that the Sikh plan had been a tactical withdrawal and that they would return to reclaim their lands. This can only happen if the Muslims knew that they had suddenly been given lands which belonged to someone else. As for Sikhistan, the major mistake made by the Sikh leadership was not to make more of the Sikh States such as Patiala, Nabha and others. Whenever a Sikhistan is mentioned in recent works about the partition, the first fact mentioned is that the Sikhs were not a majority in any of the Punjab districts. This so-called fact can easily be negated when we find that the Sikh states who had a separate agreement with the British as the paramount power had a land area of over 25,000 sq km about half the size of present Punjab and a population of 3.5 million. They should have formed a nucleus of Sikhistan. The Sikhistan scheme should have been presented as an expansion of the Sikh states. Rather than the states joining the British districts, it would have been the British districts becoming a part of the States and then an amalgamation of that States into a Sikhistan. The geography of the Sikh states also precluded any attempt at India claiming the central Punjab districts as the only land route through to these districts was through the Northern Tehsils of Rupar and Kharar in Ambala district which were Sikh dominated. The present districts of Punjab which all had a majority non-Muslim population could then have been claimed for Sikhistan as the alternative was for them to go to Pakistan which would have been impossible.

As mentioned guys, its not good to have doubts within gurbani ( as to which mantar is powerful.. mool mantar vs gurmantar?) but with that being said, mool mantar have its own purpose- sant isher singh ji maharaj rara sahib used to advise students to do 108 paki mala mool mantar a day (108 kachi mala= 1 paki mala) for 1 year before even taking amrit from panj pyares from his jatha, so one is mentally ready for amrit, and also so one's birthi/surti (intuition which is spread all over) becomes more shuksham(subtle) and subtle to the point where one consciousness start slowly getting attached in the mantra/shabad. Many bhramgyanis including damdami taksal bhramgyanis advise their students starts with 108 japji sahib, sava lakh of mool mantar a day precisely because as beginner it will hard to grasp/take in intensity on vahiguroo mantra or bij mantra- ikongkar. As a beginner one surti/intuition is not subtle as its spread out everywhere so longer the mantra ( be it mool mantar, mala mantra- japji sahib) easier it is for beginners to concentrate on meaning/make their surti/birthi more more subtle. One could take mool mantra, mala mantra as pre-requisite for beginners but with that being said, there is no hard and fast rule, it depends on the individual- one could dive in mool mantra and have its surti lost it in and get their consciousness connected to it fully and get to sachkhand but on other hand depending on person's avastha- after one's surti becomes sukhsham/subtle yet not fully connected to mantra can jump in doing jaap of gurmantra- Vahiguroo to intensify their bhagti..!! There is no hard and fast rule regarding this one, depends on each individual person's avastha.

OMG! who's shining lasers into his holiness'the Dalai Lama's eyes?

I have noticed this sadly too often. Punjabi men in India, actually Sikh men/boys have become such perverts that it is really shameful. If a women goes out in India to some Bazaar you will notice all the men/boys will stare at her in such a perverted way like they have never seen a woman in their entire life. By comparison Punjabi Hindus and Muslims are not as bad whether we want to admit it or not. Punjabi culture today has really degraded to a great extent. While men are increasingly becoming perverts, our girls/ladies are also increasingly wearing revealing clothing. Just compare the punjabi suits of today to 15 years ago. Today's punjabi suits are getting tighter, the neck and back is getting lower and lower, sleeveless arms etc. The chunni no longer is serving it's purpose of covering up a woman since today's Sikh woman barely covers her head or upper body with the Chunni.

Latest news on nidars website - can be read below... While I wouldn't ridicule or insult the passing of anyone, I wouldn't go this far attempting to curry favor with teh Namdharis by the excessive use of compliments and praise for their Guru. it's a shame that he sees the rest of the sikh sangat as malesh, bhasauria, singh sabha ferenghi's and ignorant fanatic sikhs, while Jagjit Singh Namdhari, is a sachkhand vasi, ultimate Gurmukh. Guru Gobind Singh ji says this about these fake Gurus... ----------------------------------------------------------------- Latest News CondolencesGurfateh I and the whole of the Baba Darbara Singh Akhara offer our deepest condolences to our Namdhari brothers and sisters upon the passing of their Satgur Jagjit Singh. The passing of such a great Sikh holy man and human being who did so much good for humanity and Sikhi leaves the world all the poorer. I count it as a great honour that I was able to have the blessed sight of the holy one and get his blessing. May Satgur keep showering his blessings from Sach Khand upon all those who love him. Nidar Singh -----------------------------------------------------------------

If there is REALLY NO other Solution do it... Because if medical treatment is necessaryy, this isn´t against gur sikhi jeevan ! But try to exhaust all capabillites!

Yes, that's true. I find that as a person becomes aware of the historical significance of these days in terms of what happened in Sikh history, there is no joy to be found during the next few weeks. It's not about being miserable or begrudging the rest of the world the chance to eat and be merry. But in terms of this month and the various shaheedi smagams it's very difficult to be even appear to be joyous. It's a solemn period of time for Sikhs and I'd like more of us (not necessarily folk like us but the broader Sikh community) to be aware of the hardships experienced by, for example, the Sahibzaade, etc.

Back in the 80's or 90's there was a Singh in Birmingham UK who had a khanda put on his mercedes, replacing the mercedes sign. When the Police saw it they told him to take it off LOL

I think people from all religions has lost a plot somewhat, just have to show up at vaishakhi nagar kirtan and see- how we lot (punjabi sikh community) do bhangra, gidda and have speeches from politicians on a such auspicious occasion.

I fear we have a lot more nonsense to look forward to. Our faith is relatively young. Lord knows what'll be going on in a few generations time. EDIT: I guess the Singhs of olden days probably said the above about us. :biggrin2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ub7Wan0b5uk

Great photo by Freed paaji!

I'm going to go get artificial tree that has been in the garage for years and set it up just because this thread inspired me to. Dhan dhan sant baba Jesus Nazareth wale

Hardly surprising, SGPC is controlled by Indian government their objective is to slowly erase any evidence of the 84 attacks from the minds of Sikhs. Theyve already partially succesfully brainwashed or turned most of punjab into druggies...most of the young generations in India dont know anything about the 1984 movenment .. I belive theres more awareness and knowledge in the UK than there is in India.. I dont really hold a lot of respect for the indian Sikhs, theyre "paper sikhs" the first thing a Keshdhari from India does if he comes to the UK is get his hair cut and remove his dastaar...they have no ethics or principles...Obviously not all of them...but large numbers..

Today I watched my kids putting the tree up, whilst trying to fill their heads that this is a pagan northern European tradition to do with Winter, Santa is a Sikh name, what is in it for Sikhs to do this etc etc..... Then I wondered - rather than a star on top of the tree which is a representation of the sign of Isa's birth, why don't we replace this with a Khanda? Is that ok to do - any thoughts.

Sikhs Win School Turban Ban Case Against France in the UN PARIS-”The UN Human Rights Committee has made our nine year wait for justice worthwhile, since the French law was passed against religious signs in public schools in 2004. The UNHRC has once again proved to be the beacon of light for the freedom of thought, conscience and religion by upholding that the Article 18 right under the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) to manifest ones religion, cannot be overridden merely by pleading secularity without producing any evidence that the Sikh Turban would affect the right of other students or would affect order in the school,” said Mejindarpal Kaur, UNITED SIKHS Legal Director, who is in the fore-front of a legal campaign for French Sikhs’ right to wear their turban. Paris, France, 14 Dec 2012 – The UN Human Rights Committee has ruled that France’s ban on the wearing of “conspicuous” religious symbols in schools – introduced in a law adopted in March 2004 – violated a Sikh student’s right to manifest his religion, protected by the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR). In a decision that was sent out this week to the UNITED SIKHS legal team, in relation to a complaint made by Bikramjit Singh in 2008, the Committee accepted that the wearing of a turban is regarded as a religious duty for a Sikh and is also tied in with his identity; and that France had not justified the prohibition on the wearing of the turban. Less than a year ago, the UNHRC had also concluded that France had violated the religious freedom of 76 year old Ranjit Singh when he was asked to remove his turban for his ID photograph. A UN decision is still awaited for Shingara Singh, whose passport has not been renewed by France because he refused to remove his turban for his ID photograph. “We now look to France to fulfil its treaty obligations under International law. It also has a moral duty to ensure that the freedom of religion and belief is upheld for everyone who lives within its territory,” she added. France must also provide Bikramjit Singh with a remedy, including appropriate compensation. France has 180 days to explain to the Committee how it proposes to give effect to the decision. Bikramjit Singh, whose religious rights the UN decided had been violated, said, “I am very pleased with the UN’s decision and would like to reassure the French government that we are in favour of secularity, in its true sense. The Sikh turban stands for liberty, equality and fraternity because the right to wear a Turban is open to all – men and women, rich and poor. “In fact, the Turban is a symbol of laicite- it does not discriminate. The Turban is not a sign of oppression. It’s a practice of freedom,” added Bikramjit Singh, who after being expelled from school, completed his education privately and is now a project engineer with an engineering firm in Paris. President of the Delhi Sikh Gurdwara Management Committee, Paramjit Singh said in a telephone interview: “Bikramjit Singh is an Indian national and it should have been the responsibility of the Indian government to protect his religious freedom abroad so that he and other Sikhs were not banned from wearing the turban in French public schools. Instead it took an NGO, UNITED SIKHS, to take up and win this case at the UN. We are very proud of UNITED SIKHS and congratulate the global Sikh community for the victory at the UN. I will personally ensure that this issue is raised at the Indian Parliament to ensure that France complies with the UN’s decision and reverses the ban on the turban in schools”. “Our stand for the turban will not only benefit France but the whole world. It is not a coincidence that this battle of the turban is being fought in France – a country that lives by laicite. The Turban will show the world that the true meaning of laicite can only be achieved if its people are allowed to be free to practice their faith,” said Gurdial Singh of the Turban Action Committee of France, who has been defending campaign relentlessly. http://thelinkpaper.ca/?p=24759

Its difficult to do their darshan because they are so hard to find, they remain gupt. However they do come out of their bhora once a year on the night of 24th of December. In that case on this particular day make sure you put some karah prasad in some stockings and hang them up on a mantel piece by a chimney. If you havent got a chimney they wont give you darshan. That was a gupt secret they told me.

Two Day Gurbani Gutka and Pothi Repair Workshop. In this workshop you will learn the basics of how to repair and rebind damaged or birad gutka sahibs and pothi sahibs. The first day will cover basic rebinding using traditional and adapted techniques. The second day will cover basic paper repair. Dates: 27-28 Dec 2012 Times: 9am-5pm both days (Thurs and Fri) Location: Sri Guru Singh Sabha Gurdwara Southall Park Avenue Basic tools will be provided to share but please try to bring as many of the following items as possible: Pencil, Craft knife, Stanley Knife, wood/mdf off-cuts, scalpel, metal ruler, wooden mallet, cutting mat, large sewing needles, clean painting brushes, scrap cardboard or a chopping board and also a hazuria cloth. If you are interested in signing up please send your name via email to: pothirepair@gmail.com Or call 07757082680 The workshop will have a maximum capacity of 15-20 students. Please only apply if you are able to attend both days as a minimum of two days is needed to learn the basic skills. Why is the workshop being held? The topic of Gurbani Pothi Sahibs and their repair may seem distant and unimportant to many. Yet it is of central importance if the Sikh community is to better itself and become closer to the ideals enshrined by our Guru-Sahibaan. The reasons why can be covered in a book or an essay. However, they can also be summed up in the THREE bullet points shown below.Gurbani and Gurmat granths themselves extol the virtues of doing seva of Gurbani’s Sargun Pothi Sahib Sarup.e.g. “Pothi Parmesar Ka Thaan” “Dhan su kagad kalam dhan…” The workshop will be a chance for Sikhs to understand the virtues of doing seva of Maharaj’s sargun sarup. The community is currently treating gurbani in a 'use and dispose' way. Every month hundreds Gurbani Pothis and Maharaj Sarups are cremated in asthaans across Panjab and India. Hundreds of Maharaj Sarups are being printed on a monthly basis. This is leading to a “use and dispose” cycle whereby people would rather cremate a Maharaj Sarup than go to the effort of getting it repaired. Moreover, it has now become impossible to account for the hundreds and thousands of Maharaj sarups being printed. This has made it easier for non-Gurmat Dera groups to use Maharaj Sarups to legitimize themselves enough to attract Sikhs and benefit financially.Repairing damaged Pothi Sahibs and Maharaj Sarups on a large scale will mean that the need to print masses of Gurbani and Maharaj Sarups will diminish. The workshop intends to be one step towards reaching this destination. Many Historical Pothi Sahibs and Maharaj Sarups in India and abroad are in a state of disrepair or misrepair due to limited funds and attention. Training Sikhs in manuscript repair and restoration will help change this situation without the need to rely on paying non-Sikh manuscript restorers. The workshop will allow shardhavaan Sikhs to gain some basic repair skills which can then be developed in later workshops.

Really love how he put it. I think too much we, as Sikhs, try too hard to show that we are Sikhs without acting like Sikhs. Our identity should be enough to show we're Sikhs, but with our identity our actions should very powerfully dictate who we are. Guru Sahib didn't create a religion as used by western term, but a Dharam for humanity a lifestyle of truth and treading a path. Sikh means student so we should act as such. There is a big void that exists in overly religions people (mostly people who are stuck in the trap of ritualism in organized religion) and a big void in crusading atheists. There is something Universal that connects us all and that Truth is what Guru Sahib tells us about. Some may find this a weird post and if you do, feel free to post why you think so. Nanak Naam Chardi Kalaa Tere Bhane Sarbat Da Bhalla Sab Jot Teri Jag Jeevana Tu Ghat Ghat Har Rang Rangana

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2241656/Sikh-soldier-Jatinderpal-Singh-Bhullar-guard-Buckingham-Palace-bearskin.html

Benti, could we please have the persian and or Gurmukhi with these quotes? would be very much appreciated. Thank You

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh One time an old Gursikh and his granddaughter were travelling to Sachkhand Sri Anandpur Sahib to be blessed with the holy darshan of Dhan Dhan Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj. As they made their way through the jungles which surrounded Sachkhand Sri Anandpur Sahib they got lost in the darkness. They then began to look for some place to take shelter as it had also begun to rain. They walked for a while and noticed a fire burning in the distance. They decided to walk towards the fire and ask someone for directions and for shelter from the rain. As they approached the fire they saw a pathan standing there. They greeted the pathan who stared at them. He looked at the granddaughter and bad thoughts began to go through his mind. Without a second thought he took out his sword out of its scabbard and began to wave it towards the old Gursikh. The granddaughter who noticed this began to recite, “Hamri karo hath dai rachha.” As she uttered this thuk a bow was plucked and a golden tipped arrow began to cut through the jungle and the sky before piercing the neck of the pathan. A few moments later the thud of horses galloping was heard. Soon an army clad in blue robes and iron weapons began to manifest with Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj at the front. As soon as the old Gursikh and his granddaughter caught a glimpse of Guru Sahib and his ladlee fauj they fell to the floor with tears of happiness in their eyes. Maharaj smiled, dismounted from his horse and held his two beloved Sikhs as he took them back home to Sachkhand Sri Anandpur Sahib with him. Source: One of Bhai Balwinder Singh Ji's tapes Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh