Leaderboard

Saw this incredible artwork by jamiecooperartist Just WOW! ??

Let’s try start or increase our mool mantar jaap. Because honestly there is so much sukh beyond any comprehension waiting for us. And what a shame this entire life passes never experiencing it, then being taken by jamdoots to dharamraj. When rather we could experience HUGE spiritual bliss in this lifetime and then merge forever into it. We just need to dig deep, push hard to get past stage 1 of washing our paap first. And it’s so easy with technology today, here’s a brilliant 3 hr jaap. You can have this playing while doing your daily work, household chores or cooking etc.

Daas was thinking, our bodies are temporary and eventually pass, but our souls are eternal. So all gurmukh, sants etc. souls do still exist. But where are they? How magnificent that place must be where they all reside! Anyone who got blessed sangat of a gurmukh soul knows how beautiful it is being near them, how peaceful and bliss. But that place where ALL gurmukh souls of creation reside must be insane anand. Gurbani talks of Begampur (sachkhand) as the realm where all those mukat and liberated souls reside. A gurmukh soul of senior age was asked if he ever had darshan of a particular mahapurkh who passed few decades ago. The gurmukh soul said hanji I was blessed their darshan, but not on this earth, it was in Begampur. They said I was sitting in Begampur, and when said mahapurkh arrived, the whole of Begampur stood up in their respect. SANGAT JI - WE SHOULD ALL DO MOOL MANTAR Day 1 - nothing happens … first the filth inside of us has to be washed off, then Vaheguru ji’s kirpa happens. You see parkash within and everything begins ? Everything is here - just our eye to see it is covered in paap. Guru sahib, sachkhand, mahapurkh, shaheed singhs, devte - it’s all here. Anhad shabad is heard, powers start to come, loads and loads of stuff.

ਭਾਗਠੜੇ ਹਰਿ ਸੰਤ ਤੁਮੑਾਰੇ ਜਿਨੑ ਘਰਿ ਧਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਾ ॥ bhaagaThaRe har sa(n)t tum(h)aare jin(h) ghar dhan har naamaa || Your Saints are very fortunate; their homes are filled with the wealth of the Lord's Name. ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ਗਣੀ ਸੇਈ ਇਹ ਆਏ ਸਫਲ ਤਿਨਾ ਕੇ ਕਾਮਾ ॥੧॥ paravaan ganee seiee ieh aae safal tinaa ke kaamaa ||1|| Their birth is approved, and their actions are fruitful. ||1|| ਮੇਰੇ ਰਾਮ ਹਰਿ ਜਨ ਕੈ ਹਉ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਈ ॥ mere raam har jan kai hau bal jaiee || O my Lord, I am a sacrifice to the humble servants of the Lord. ਕੇਸਾ ਕਾ ਕਰਿ ਚਵਰੁ ਢੁਲਾਵਾ ਚਰਣ ਧੂੜਿ ਮੁਖਿ ਲਾਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ kesaa kaa kar chavar ddulaavaa charan dhooR mukh laiee ||1|| rahaau || I make my hair into a fan, and wave it over them; I apply the dust of their feet to my face. ||1||Pause||

I don't understand what point you think you are making. Resorting to insults doesn't help your case. It is also really lame for you to make this some sort of US Sikhs vs UK Sikhs thing. Does it make you feel better about yourself to engage in this kind of petty one-upmanship? You don't appear to grasp very basic realities related to population density. From your posts, you sound very provincial. It might be illuminating for you to occasionally leave Wolverhampton or Southall or wherever you live. More troubling than your provincialism is your inability to understand basic quantitative reasoning. I don't say these things to try to insult you, and it gives me no happiness to note these things. You seem like a really nice guy (although you try to hide it). People like you are the future of the Sikh quam. So in making these observations, I feel disappointed and depressed.

This makes me laugh. The crusaders were European Christians who when they reached Jerusalem slaughtered the native Middle Eastern Christians as well as the Muslims because they couldn't tell them apart. Would have killed Jesus as well if they encountered him.

A closer look…

people have become used to comfort in first world countries. The smallest inconvenience happens and they act like the world is ending. Imagine how these people will act when something big actually happens? These people have forgotten nothing is permanent.

I'd say it's more than just a theory myself. Look at source evidence.

@proudkaur21 Thoughts? Seems far stretched and wander how many 'Sikhs' are actually 'Sikhs'...

I could not agree more with puzzled. India is obsessed with the whole mughal empire. These b@astards forcibly converted half the country to islam. Yet when you go to india, especially places such as dehli. All you see is mughali named restaurants. such as mughali cuisine, mughali chicken tikka ect this and that. We have forgot the fact that these animals made chicken tikka out of Hindus and non muslims. Now we obsess about mughali cuisine chicken tikka. Mughals and there disgusting monuments should be burnt to the ground. Starting with the taj mahal. And anyone who supports mughal art, cusine, culture needs a good thaparh to their face. By the way - good to be back after my forced vacation from here

Gurfateh Sangat Ji, I apologise if this topic has been discussed countless times before, I have read previous discussions and done by own research on this but have failed to any real conclusion and am thus turning to SikhSangat for help. I came across the Air India Flight 182 incident whilst reading up news and facts about the recent incident of the missing Malaysia Airlines flight. As far as I am aware, the Air India Flight 192 bombing was conducted by Babbar Khalsa members in retaliation for Operation Bluestar. I am unaware of how true this is and the details surrounding it, but considering one of the men Inderjit "Singh" Rayat has pleaded guilty to manslaughter and to making the bomb I assume this may well be somewhat accurate. As I don't live in Canada, I was unaware of this whole thing. I googled Inderjit Singh and my word, all I could think of was how can a man who looks like that do something as horrible as this! Looks can be so deceiving, he looks like your average Baba Ji. As a Sikh, I am honestly DISGUSTED if this was done by Sikhs no matter what the reasoning. I admire our shaheeds like Sant Jarnail Singh Ji and Sukha Jinda so much, I admire Bhai Hawara Ji and Balwant Singh Rajoana Ji, but these Singhs never went out of their way to kill innocent people. However, bombing a plane and killing 300+ people for no reason is beyond me and disgusts me to the core. It makes me ashamed, it is embarrassing. I can never ever see Guru Gobind Singh Ji condoning this behaviour in any way or form. It is not Sikhi. Please tell me this was not done by Sikhs. Please tell me it was a conspiracy. Please tell me Inderjit Singh Rayat has been framed, and that innocent looking face isn't the mask of a mass murderer.

CS-First, my point was not about Reyat specifically or his innocence. The victims were the most innocent and your clichéd distortion takes us further from justice for those victims. But you want an answer. Start with facts available to you, rather than relying on false and disrespectful “investigative reporting” around a massive tragedy. You help propagate those falsehoods. Here is one very short ‘answer’. Keep reading. Since you raise it, Reyat very well may be innocent at law. Exploring that properly may lead closer to some justice for those most innocent, being the families that died. Reyat was without a doubt prosecuted improperly at just about every stage. (Edward Greenspan the one of the leading criminal law scholars in Canada says this: “ Instead of engaging in "Enron accounting," the Crown should inform the public that this man is not getting away with murder, because he didn't commit murder.” & Read articles below). You need to do no more than read each of his cases and very few other facts that have arisen to to conclude there is a very likely miscarriage of justice. People decades from now will be talking about how Canada repeatedly through it’s actions and inaction disowned the “foreign” looking victims and their families while improperly participating in a witch hunt against Reyat. You ask who Reyat made the bombs for. How crass of you to opine at length on a tragedy of this magnitude and not be bothered to read very basic facts. He did not make bombs according to Crown. The Agreed Statement of Facts with Crown that formed part of the plea says as follows: In May and June, 1985, in the province of British Columbia, Mr. Reyat acquired various materials for the purpose of aiding others in the making of explosive devices. Mr. Reyat was told and believed that the explosive devices would be transported to India in order to blow up property such as a car, a bridge or something "heavy". Although Mr. Reyat acquired materials for this purpose, he did not make or arm an explosive device, nor did he place an explosive device on an airplane, nor does he know who did or did not do so. Read the articles below then reread hte following 3 paragraphs. Even the bare bones in the 2003 plea bargain is in question given the 1991 trial and ultimate lack of evidence in 2003. After reading the below articles one must ask where is the re-trial of the 1991 sham prosecution of Reyat if the truth around AI is so important? Not only was there a blatant non-disclosure of critical evidence that would have resulted in an acquittal, but incredibly an RCMP officer testified at the 2003 AI trial that sealed evidence itself was later tampered with at RCMP headquarters after the 1991 trial. This is about respect for those who were killed. The political layers of spin re Reyat, Parmar has not helped. Reyat’s case and an endless list of other uninvestigated issues should be of concern to anyone who is concerned about the truth re AI. Where is the investigation to determine whether this was an abuse of process, malicious prosecution, or criminal negligence? Where are those fearless leaders and media columnists who purport to care so much? Hiding behind you and your ilk, that’s where. Shame! ---- Reyat lawyers argued first trial unfair: transcript Blatchford, Christie. National Post [Don Mills, Ont] 18 Feb 2003: Crown says failure to tell defence about witness statement in '91 trial not an issue Disclosure problems over critical evidence from a key witness may have been a driving force behind the controversial plea bargain concluded in British Columbia Supreme Court this week with Inderjit Singh Reyat. That evidence, the National Post has learned, was first discovered by Reyat's current defence team only late last December and only began to be fully fleshed out last month. On Monday, the 51-year-old Reyat pleaded guilty to manslaughter for his role in gathering the ingredients used to make the terrorist bomb that blasted Air-India Flight 182 out of the skies on June 23, 1985, and killed 329 people, most of them Canadians. Anguished relatives of the victims immediately reacted with outrage and bewilderment to the sudden deal that saw Reyat given a five-year sentence. But the answer to their collective question -- why, after almost two decades of painstaking and multi-million-dollar investigation, would prosecutors agree to a deal less than two months before jury selection in the trial proper was set to begin? -- appears to be connected to Reyat's conviction almost 12 years ago in another bombing. That June day almost 18 years ago, two lethal bombs exploded within an hour of one another. The second was the one that caused the Air-India jet to be blown apart over the North Atlantic Ocean off Ireland. The first, contained in luggage that was destined for transfer to another Air-India flight, exploded in the New Tokyo International Airport in Narita, Japan. Two baggage handlers were killed. Reyat was charged with manslaughter in the Narita bombing and on May 10, 1991, was convicted after a judge-alone trial before Mr. Justice Raymond Paris of the B.C. Supreme Court, and later sentenced to 10 years in prison. Though there was a wealth of damning evidence against Reyat in that case -- cardboard and tape and other materials that matched fragments meticulously recovered from the blast and testimony from several witnesses who said Reyat had been trying to acquire dynamite that spring and was openly voicing his hatred for the Indian authorities over its army's bloody assault the year before on the Golden Temple in Amritsar, the holiest of Sikh sites -- arguably the most important single piece was a receipt for a Sanyo tuner bearing a rare stencil. That receipt, discovered at his Duncan, B.C., home, bore Reyat's name and appeared to show that he had personally purchased the tuner -- which sophisticated tests determined had housed the Narita bomb - - less than three weeks before the blast. Judge Paris referred at least seven times in his judgment to the supposed purchase by Reyat, and clearly accepted it as fact. In one such reference, for instance, the judge wrote that "records from a Woolworth's store in Duncan disclosed that the accused had purchased such a tuner on June 5, 1985." But, as Reyat's defence lawyers discovered recently, the Woolworth's clerk who had sold the tuner to two East Indian men had originally told police and later said in the presence of a prosecutor that Reyat was not one of them. The clerk's description of the buyer never matched Reyat's appearance, either in 1985 or now. Nor did composite sketches of the two men drawn from her description fit Reyat. Post sources independent of the courtroom -- where until about two weeks ago the Air-India trial judge, Mr. Justice Ian Bruce Josephson, was presiding over pre-trial motions involving Reyat's defence -- say this witness, Karen Smith, always maintained Reyat looked nothing like the two East Indian men in her store. At some point, Mrs. Smith apparently went to Reyat's workplace, Auto Marine Electrical, where she confirmed that the bearded, turbaned man was not one of the pair who had bought the tuner. A prosecutor, the Post has learned, was present with a police officer when Mrs. Smith was interviewed before the start of the 1991 trial, as is commonly done to prepare witnesses for court. In that interview, she reiterated her evidence that Reyat was not the man who bought the tuner. Geoff Gaul, a spokesman for the Crown's office, said late yesterday he couldn't confirm the prosecutor knew this information had not been disclosed to the defence, but said that regardless, "the Crown is confident that any non-disclosure of this sort in the previous trial would not have impacted" the Air-India proceedings. But the information was allegedly never disclosed to Reyat's lawyers, either those who represented him at trial in 1991 or at his subsequent unsuccessful appeal of his conviction at the B.C. Court of Appeal. In fact, the Post has learned from sources outside the courtroom, the first inkling the defence team had of Mrs. Smith's statements came almost accidentally just before the court break at the Air- India pre-trial last December, when the Reyat team was arguing a motion before Judge Josephson. During the holidays, the lawyers apparently did more digging, and by late last month, their allegations over improper prosecutorial disclosure had become the focus of another complex motion. It was, sources say, shortly after three police officers had testified that court broke again, and the first discussions between the prosecutors and Reyat's lawyers began. These were in the beginning geared at coming to what's called an "agreed statement of fact" surrounding Mrs. Smith's evidence and the disclosure issues, the aim to obviate the necessity of perhaps having to call the involved prosecutor as a witness. But the talks soon turned into full-blown plea resolutions and the deal that was formalized this week. Mr. Gaul, however, said the timing was "absolutely coincidental" and the disclosure issue "played no role whatsoever" in the plea discussions or eventual deal. The Post has obtained a transcript of Mrs. Smith's testimony at the first trial, where she was carefully questioned by prosecutor Richard Cairns. Mr. Cairns is a member of the team now prosecuting Ajaib Singh Bagri, who, with Ripudaman Singh Malik, still faces an array of charges, including murder, in both the Narita bombing and the Air- India one. It is their trial that is slated to begin March 31. Mrs. Smith's examination-in-chief was brief, and is contained on fewer than six pages. Much of it revolved around the actual bill and the customer receipt and the meaning of various numbers such as the store and product codes. Reading from the bill, Mr. Cairns then asked, "Then it says deliver to, and it's got, R-E-Y-A-T." Mrs. Smith replied, "That would be the name the customer gave me." "So that information was supplied by the customer?" Mr. Cairns asked. "Yes," said Mrs. Smith. A little later, Mr. Cairns asked her, 'Now, the individual that made this purchase, Mrs. Smith, can you describe him to the best of your ability?" "It was an East Indian customer," she said. "Is that the best you can do?" Mr. Cairns asked. "That's about it," she said. "And was he accompanied by anybody?" Mr. Cairns asked. "He was accompanied by another East Indian," she said. She was never asked what many lawyers consider the natural follow- up question -- that is, if she saw either of those East Indian men in the courtroom. A little later still, after some questions about another tuner that was used by prosecutors as a sort of control for comparison purposes, Mr. Cairns told Judge Paris, "No further questions, my Lord." One of Reyat's defence lawyers at the time, Mark Hilford, unaware of her earlier statements to police, conducted an even briefer cross- examination, and pressed Mrs. Smith only once for a better description of the two men. All she could say, she told him, was that one man was taller than the other, and that she had dealt mostly with the taller man. The alleged disclosure problem with Reyat's first trial, Post sources say, served both to weaken the case against him in the Air- India trial and arguably even to bolster the defence contention that he was only ever a low-level player who was, by Mrs. Smith's evidence, perhaps even set up to the degree that he was identified by the two mysterious East Indian men -- they have never been found or identified -- who were actually in the Woolworth's store and who provided the clerk with Reyat's name and phone number. Poignantly, after Reyat learned that he was being fingered as the purchaser of the tuner, he actually returned to the Woolworth's store in Duncan in an effort to confront the clerk and say it hadn't been him. This was apparently held out at the 1991 trial as evidence of what in law is called "consciousness of guilt." Judge Paris referred to it obliquely in his decision, saying Reyat "apparently attempted to persuade some Crown witnesses that their recollections and records of what he had done during the period leading up to the explosion were inaccurate." The judge noted that these actions were "consistent with those of a guilty person," but then added, presciently, "I hesitate to infer too much from them because in certain instances they could be consistent by themselves (though not in the context of this case) with the actions of an innocent person who was imprudently denying facts which he thought might wrongly inculpate him." Reyat didn't buy tuner used in Narita bombing, testimony reveals ROBERT MATAS Vancouver — From Wednesday's Globe and Mail Published Wednesday, Feb. 26 2003, 1:54 AM EST Testimony about a possible cover-up of crucial evidence in the Air-India case and about unexplained tampering with sealed information in a police file was heard shortly before a controversial plea-bargain deal was struck with Inderjit Singh Reyat.as struck with Inderjit Singh Reyat. The evidence, presented at the pretrial hearing last month, dealt with the purchase of a $129 Sanyo tuner that police believed contained the bomb that exploded on June 23, 1985, at Japan's Narita Airport, killing two baggage handlers. One hour later, a bomb explosion aboard an Air-India flight killed 329 people. Police allege the two bombs were placed on the aircraft in Vancouver by Sikh militants seeking revenge against the government of India. Karen Smith, the salesclerk who sold the tuner used in the Narita bomb, told police that Mr. Reyat was not the man who bought it, Edward Ross Drozda testified in B.C. Supreme Court on Jan. 29. Mr. Drozda, a retired RCMP officer who worked on the Air-India case from 1985 to 1992, also said that the clerk's statement to police may not have been disclosed to Mr. Reyat's defence lawyers when he was tried and convicted in 1991 of helping to make the bomb that killed the baggage handlers. The court prohibited the media from reporting Mr. Drozda's testimony until Tuesday. Mr. Justice Ian Bruce Josephson of the B.C. Supreme Court lifted the publication ban in response to an application from The Globe and Mail. Mr. Reyat was convicted in 1991 in part because of police evidence that indicated he had bought the tuner at a Woolworth store on June 5, 1985. The B.C. Court of Appeal upheld the lower court's decision, accepting that "the evidence established that [Mr. Reyat]purchased ... one of only five tuners which could have housed the bomb." Police linked the tuner to Mr. Reyat after tracing a fragment found at Narita Airport to a stock of tuners at a Woolworth store in Duncan, B.C., the town where Mr. Reyat lived. In August, 1985, police found an unsigned invoice at the store with "R-E-Y-A-T" written in the "deliver to" area. Under intense police questioning in November, 1985, Mr. Reyat said he bought the tuner and told police where they could find a copy of the receipt. However, Mr. Reyat has also contradicted himself, saying that a man staying at his home bought the tuner and took it with him when he left. Mr. Reyat has said he did not know the man's name. On the final day of testimony before prosecutors negotiated a plea bargain with Mr. Reyat, Mr. Drozda testified that the salesclerk gave a statement to police on Aug. 19, 1985, about selling the tuner to two South Asian men. About a month later, she informed police that she happened to see Mr. Reyat, and he was not the person who bought the tuner, Mr. Drozda said. Two days later, Ms. Smith described the purchaser while giving a statement to police while under hypnosis. Her description did not fit Mr. Reyat, the court was told. However, at Mr. Reyat's trial, neither Mr. Reyat's defence lawyers nor the prosecutors asked Ms. Smith whether the purchaser was in the court room.Although the pretrial hearing was stopped before Judge Josephson ruled on the significance of failing to disclose Ms. Smith's statements to police, the issue came up in court earlier on another matter. Mr. Reyat's lawyers had previously argued that evidence collected by police in his home in November, 1985, subject to a search warrant, should be excluded because his constitutional rights had been violated, in part, by the failure to include Ms. Smith's statements in the application for the warrant. Judge Josephson dismissed defence arguments about the importance of the failure to disclose the information, ruling on Dec. 13, 2002, that it "appears to have been through inadvertence." In his plea-bargain deal, Mr. Reyat admitted that he acquired material that was used for the Air-India bomb, but said he did not make the bomb or know who placed it on the airplane. He did not identify the bomb-making items he bought. During Mr. Drozda's testimony, the court also heard that an unidentified person had tampered with two boxes of sealed documents from the Narita trial. The boxes, stored at Vancouver RCMP headquarters, contained copies of documents setting out information disclosed to Mr. Reyat's defence lawyers during the Narita trial. Mr. Drozda testified that the boxes were sealed in 1992 after the trial. But on the day before he testified in the Air-India pretrial hearing, Mr. Drozda discovered the seal was broken. Some material had been removed and other material had been inserted, he said. Mr. Reyat has spent 10 years in jail for his role in making the bomb that exploded in Japan. Earlier this month, he pleaded guilty to manslaughter in the Air-India deaths, admitting he acquired materials that were used in that bomb.

Admin could u fix the ability to copy and paste on the threads so I can post comments made by the judge And post the judgement from air india inquiry If canadian govt was in on it why wouldn't they charged these guys sooner n appointed a judge to make sure the verdict was guilty Same time human nature is that the bigger the secret the less likely it will remain a secret n if canadian govt was involved in air india or air india cover up in a democracy like canada's someone would of already rated out the canadian govt or the opposition party would of found the evidence to throw out opposition Why could the canadian govt take such a huge risk when it takes only one person to destroy the govt by revealing the secret to the world Or blackmail their govt Sorry I don't believe in conspiracy theories And I would like to ask the admin who he or she believes did the air india bombing And what's the difference between muslims who claim israel n america did 9 11 with sikhs who claim india and canada did air india Heck the navy seals after shooting osama couldn't stay quite one wanted a book deal right away and another hid his identity left the seals an gave interview to tv reporter Human nature is unpredictable Indian govt did anti sikh riots and their is overwhelming evidence that points at this Theirs no evidence that shows india and canadian govt did air india

Buddasingh I think you choose to be blind to the facts like people who think 9 11 was done by united states govt or cia Secondly if I could post links I would post the link from air india inquiry and what the judge said in 2012 to malik The judge in the case and in air india inquiry shows evidence was strong hence why malik was never repaid his legal expensise by the canadian govt and the judge also pointed out the acquittal does not mean innocence Why did talwinder parmar say air india airplanes would fall from the sky and tell sikhs to boycott air india? Who did inderjeet reyat make the bombs for? Sorry buddasingh I think you have bin brain washed Question for people why did inderjeet reyat make the bombs and why were him and talwinder parmar testing one of the bombs in the forest three weeks before air india?? Or are you going to say the corrupt govt of india was able to sneak in agents like james bond style who came to canada with fake passports and drugged inderjeet reyat into making the bombs then when talwinder parmar and inderjeet reyat went for a friendly walk the govt agents set off one of the bombs inderjeet reyat made in the forest to frame them An talwinder parmar was worried that bad weather would cause air india planes to fall from the sky An bagri when a crowd yelled death to hindus and bagri said he would not rest till he killed 50 000 hindus that was all actors and computer graphic effects That event never took place it was all computer effects which involved raw and bollywood So when johal went to the airport the james bonds followed him n went to the airport n made sure their bombs got checked onto the flight, while their suit cases got loaded onto the airplane they boycotted the doomed flight n decided to go to disneyland to meet israeli spies\israeli james bonds and started planning 9 11 and framing osama bin laden cause many muslims claim the muslims couldn't do 911 it had to bin the jews

The whole world knows who committed this atrocity.....many here have a problem accepting that Sikhs can do such things and want to wish it away by clutching at straws and conspiracy theories.

singh4peace the supreme court judge ian josephson who acquitted malik and bagri also said being acquitted does not mean malik and bagri were innocent in Canada the legal system prefers to let a guilty man off the hook then send a innocent man to jail judge had to follow the rules the system isn't perfect and yes guilty men walk free ian josephson said the evidence was strong but what destroyed the case were the witnesses one being inderjeet reyat who ian josephson accused of lieing 27 times as well as the star witness who malik had an affair with at the khalsa school admitted during trial she had a hard time testifying against him cause she still loved him and couldn't keep her story straight talwinder parmar who said air india airplanes would fall from the sky also cowardly surrendered like a sheep and was tortured and rated out his buddies yet some Sikhs want to call him a lion malik has an affair with another women isn't that very anti sikhi I don't understand how some Sikhs consider themselves amritdhari yet support malik I think their sheep who were to scared to fight for khalistan bagri said he wouldn't rest till 50 000 hindus were killed and inderjeet reyat made the bombs the judge who acquitted these guys also said they aint innocent Canada America England have let murderers off the hook many times the most famous being oj simpson singh4peace why did you use the book soft target to try to claim these guys were innocent when the book clearly states their guilty plus in the trial the roles malik and bagri were accused of were malik was the one who helped fund air india bombing by help paying for the plane tickets and that bagri knew about the plot considering how tight he was with talwinder parmar and inderjeet reyat and that he was always with them look at indo Canadian gang murders and how some of them have bin hard to convict cause the burden of proof required is so high ron dosanjh and jim dosanjh were leaders of the Sikh youth federation and very pro khalistan and drug dealers bindy johal a scum bag who got a lot of Punjabi youth hooked to drugs went on the news and threatened to kill ron dosanjh after jim dosanjh had bin murdered he basically said he would shoot ron dosanjh between the eyes an few week laters that's what happened yet bindy johal and his crack head friends were let off the hook the guy basically told tv reporters he was going to murder ron dosanjh and how he would kill him ron dosanjh got murdered the way the tv reporters had bin told he would be murdered an still was found innocent so think about that when you think about the Canadian justice system yes the leaders of the Sikh youth federation were drug dealers who got involved in drug war

dashmesh1984 did parmar or malik or bagri or reyat play roles in air india bombing malik was main financier for bki parmar went around saying air india planes would fall from the sky reyat made the bombs bagri said he would not rest ill he killed 50 000 hindus

should of said it better not all babbar khalsa members were terrorists their were a few bad apples in babbar khalsa talwinder parmar and his crew and supporters now many members of babbar khalsa were not terrorists but saint soldiers but their were bad apples like talwinder parmar in the movement and its bin said that talwinder parmar broke off from babbar khalsa and formed babbar khalsa international terrorist is anyone who targets innocent people America dropping atomic bombs on japan was act of terrorism

acsap anyone who kills innocent people are terrorists indian govt are terrorists anti Sikh riots make them terrorists also doing the air india bombing makes talwinder parmar and his crew terrorists talwinder parmar and his crew claimed to be members of babbar khalsa they also went around telling people to boycott air india flights cause they would fall from the sky inderjeet reyat bought the materials for the bomb and put em together now the book soft target claims the indian govt used talwinder parmar and his crew who called themselves babbar khalsa to do air india bombing other theory is talwinder parmar and his crew acted on their own which of these two theories do you believe is true??

dashmesh 1984 according to Canadian intelligence talwinder parmar probably surrendered in order to be captured I personally believe he did do air india bombing has a sheeps heart hence why he surrendered rather then fight like a lion and go out guns blazing usually when someone is captured its cause they have chosen to surrender bobbymann75 what lies have I spread is mistaking babbar khalsa international for babbar khalsa a lie? what is so biased about the youtube video I posted?? or do you believe its biased cause you believe the theory soft target offers which claims talwinder parmar and malik were working as double agents for india an did the air india bombing?? their are only two theories that have bin offered out their that have bin strongly debated one is talwinder parmar and his group did the bombing second is talwinder parmar was a double agent and indian gov used him to do air india bombing

Brushing issues like this under the carpet because they were found innocent in a court of law means nothing. What about all the people found innocent in Indian Courts despite being clearly responsible for murdering Sikhs in 1984? We are a strong and proud community and our Gurus have left us a beautiful legacy that we should be promoting to the world. We can only do that once we solve the issues and misconceptions we have amongst ourselves. Many people think Sikhs are a hypocritical joke because of this incident and quite frankly I don't want this stain on us in the international spotlight, but I also don't want to be an <banned word filter activated> that denies it ever occurred if it did like I previously have. Many of my Punjabi friends even think Amritdhari Sikhs are terrorists and have brought up the Air India bombing before and I've just brushed over it and didn't do any research because I thought "no that can't be true we were framed". Now that I am though, questions are arising. We need to stick together and figure out how to solve these issues. Sikhi believes in justice, not revenge. Justice is bringing someone who has done wrong to justice and making him pay for his actions. Revenge is taking it out on people who had nothing to do with anything. I know many years have passed and we may never know the full story, but I think as young, educated Sikhs we should no better than to just decide not to talk about it.

Regardless of whatever our personal opinions are, Canadian court cleared out those singhs. So lets give it a rest.

It was most likely billions of rupees and not millions !! It's common knowledge amongst some people here that one of the prime suspects that walked away, actually bought himself out. I believe he is a multi millionaire that paid huge amounts for confiscation of vital evidence that investigators had........suddenly this evidence just vanished ! Oh yes these bombers and suspects all come across as sikhs of the highest order and the suspected billionaire is also the person that funded and started the khalsa school and khalsa credit union bank !!

I am just saying we should not promote parmar as hero when book shows he is not but shows an potential GOI agent. Actual verdict that you are quoting which shows bagri and malik not guility also claims in same breath that parmar was a terrorist responsible for air india disaster but failed to mention GOI was actual culprit these guys were just pawns. We cannot pick and choose whenever it fits us..i m willing to drop malik from my future references post as he is found non guilty. But parmar and reyat are different story all together. Air India disaster was huge dent on sikh image here in Canada. At least Sri Akaal takth sahib could have done is make a statement in a media -condemn this act with strongest means possible that would have helped with damage control besides it would be right thing to do and they also should have held prayer for the victims....victims have suffered most out of this disaster.

Brother, First read some history books (at some simple basics) on this topic (i can suggest you some good books) and then come up here for discussion on such topics. Reason is that hundreds of members like yourself keep coming back with the same type of replies for the past 8 years. Sure, which books do you recommend i should read. I would be greatful for those books. Also do you live in the B.C. area. We B.Cer's know what Malik has done. It's no secret to us, since I grow up listening to what he does and even have saw with my own eyes the way he behaves. Just send me an pm or publish it here which books you want me to read. Thanks in advance. lol i know exactly what your talking about, went to khalsa school in surrey and grew up their their's a reason so many ppl turning their backs on the gurdwaras cause of hypocrits

Brother, First read some history books (at some simple basics) on this topic (i can suggest you some good books) and then come up here for discussion on such topics. Reason is that hundreds of members like yourself keep coming back with the same type of replies for the past 8 years. Sure, which books do you recommend i should read. I would be greatful for those books. Also do you live in the B.C. area. We B.Cer's know what Malik has done. It's no secret to us, since I grow up listening to what he does and even have saw with my own eyes the way he behaves. Just send me an pm or publish it here which books you want me to read. Thanks in advance.

Maybe they just wanted to add some more massala to the all ready hot fire water for the fire ------ Perfect label to show India did it right Head lines--before Indian government blows up Akal Takht, murders Sant Jarnail Singh ji, and thousand of Singhs! This needs to stop now Head lines--after Sikhs blow two planes!!! India needs to continue there war of terror and kill all terrorist Sikhs so it will never happen again .... I see where your getting at, but after 84 attack what happened??? Indira Gandhi was killed by Sikhs. Thats all the fire they need to keep the campaign of calling Sikhs terrorist and killing them. Assination of INdira out weighs the one plane. Again things don't add up when you point fingers at the Indian government.

http://www.voiceonli...4/headline2.php AIR INDIA INQUIRY WILL LOOK INTO TEHELKA REPORT ON TALWINDER SINGH PARMAR The Tehelka (www.tehelka.com) report on a former Punjab police officer claiming that he arrested and interrogated prime Air India bombing suspect Talwinder Singh Parmar before he was ordered killed by senior police officials confirms what The VOICE has been saying for years: (1) that Indian police extracted all the information they required from Parmar before killing him (and so they really didn't care what Canada did about the other alleged plotters); and (2) that convicted bomb maker Inderjit Singh Reyat knows who the mysterious Third Man - who accompanied Parmar to his house, stayed with him and later took the bombs from him - is. On the other hand, it is very difficult, indeed, impossible to determine what the roles of various alleged plotters were or even the true extent of their involvement because there are so many claims and counter-claims by people who say they know this or that for sure. Then there are those who want all this confusion to protect those who were really involved in the plot. Also, it is impossible to say to what extent the Indian intelligence services and the Canadian Security Intelligence Service were involved in the plot or how much they really knew or know. Did they have a mole or moles? Who was the mole (or moles)? Anyway, the head of the Air India inquiry, former Supreme Court justice John Major told the media that he will look into this report when the hearings resume. The Globe and Mail's Robert Matas was the first to report about the Tehelka report on Monday. The Tehelka report said that retired Punjab Police Deputy Superintendent of Police (DSP) Harmail Singh Chandi, who reportedly arrested Parmar in the Jammu region of the northern Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir in September, 1992, did not destroy Parmar's confession record although he was instructed to do that. In the confession, Parmar named Lakhbir Singh Brar "Rode", nephew of Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale and head of the banned International Sikh Youth Federation, as the mastermind of the bombing. Rode, who is now believed to be in Lahore, Pakistan. Tehelka reported that Chandi produced all the evidence - including audio-tapes - before the RCMP and the John Major inquiry commission. So apparently he was the mysterious witness who suddenly backed out from giving evidence at the Major inquiry. However, when you go through Parmar's confession there are some points that you need to bear in mind. Both as the son of a former Indian Police Service officer and a crime reporter with The Times of India in New Delhi, I can tell you that Indian police extract confessions by third-degree methods that are nothing but horrible torture. That's a well-known fact and that is the reason why police there often don't report an arrest (by law they must bring the arrested person before a judge within 24 hours) because they first torture the person and then wait for the marks of torture and other related physical conditions to heal. Then they register the arrest officially and bring the person before a judge. Judges, too, have been known to turn a blind eye to visible marks of torture, especially in smaller towns. The victim, too, is often too scared to talk of the torture because he fears he will be tortured again! So Parmar's confession could have been taped only after he agreed to say certain things that the cops wanted him to say. Also, he might have deliberately misled the cops to buy time, naively thinking that being a Canadian citizen he would not be killed. According to the Tehlka report by Vikram Jit Singh, Parmar's confession states: "Around May 1985, a functionary of the International Sikh Youth Federation came to me and introduced himself as Lakhbir Singh and asked me for help in conducting some violent activities to express the resentment of the Sikhs. I told him to come after a few days so that I could arrange for dynamite and battery etc. He told me that he would first like to see a trial of the blast ... After about four days, Lakhbir Singh and another youth, Inderjit Singh Reyat, both came to me. We went into the jungle (of British Columbia). There we joined a dynamite stick with a battery and triggered off a blast. Lakhbir and Inderjit, even at that time, had in their minds a plan to blast an aeroplane. I was not too keen on this plan but agreed to arrange for the dynamite sticks. Inderjit wanted to use for this purpose a transistor fitted with a battery...That very day, they took dynamite sticks from me and left. "Then Lakhbir Singh, Inderjit Singh and their accomplice, Manjit Singh, made a plan to plant bombs in an Air India (AI) plane leaving from Toronto via London for Delhi and another flight that was to leave Tokyo for Bangkok. Lakhbir Singh got the seat booking done from Vancouver to Tokyo and then onwards to Bangkok, while Manjit Singh got it done from Vancouver to Toronto and then from Toronto to Delhi. Inderjit prepared the bags for the flights, which were loaded with dynamite bombs fitted with a battery and transistor. They decided that the suitcases will be booked but they themselves will not travel by the same flights although they will take the boarding passes. After preparing these bombs, the plan was ready for execution by June 21 or 22, 1985. However, the bomb to be kept in the flight from Tokyo to Delhi via Bangkok exploded at the Narita airport on the conveyor belt. The second suitcase that was loaded on the Toronto-Delhi air flight exploded in the air." According to the Tehelka report, Punjab Human Rights Organization (PHRO) principal investigator Sarabjit Singh said the PHRO's probe has shown that Parmar was killed to hide the name of Lakhbir, who was an Indian agent. He claimed that a plot was hatched to discredit the Sikh movement and that the Punjab Police got orders to eliminate Parmar because he knew too much about the main perpetrators. Tehelka pointed out that although Lakhbir is accused in many acts of terrorism, he is wanted by the Indian government in only a minor case registered in Moga, Punjab. The Globe and Mail's Robert Matas reported: "Lakhbir Singh Brar came to Canada in April, 1985, as a refugee. He was identified as a national security risk by Canada's security service and deported in the early 1990s." Interestingly, Tehelka reported that when the police officer - Satish K. Kumar, who was a Senior Superintendent of Police at the time and is now an Inspector General of Police - who reportedly killed Parmar in an encounter, was asked about the charge that Parmar was murdered by the police, he shot back: "It was a clean encounter. The RCMP is bringing this up because they botched their investigations and failed to get convictions." Interesting masala, eh! Very interesting massala and very spicy i must say. It hard to get the true story, but come on government already blow up Akal Takht, murdered Sant Jarnail Singh ji, and thousand of Singhs, They had already targeted and started killing the Sikhs that were with Sant Jarnail Singh ji. They already acomplished around the world to say Sikhs are terrorist. After all these accomplishments hard to believe they needed to blow up two planes to label the Sikhs again as terrorist. The INdian government already accomplished what they wanted before the 1985 bombing.

http://www.voiceonline.com/voice/070804/headline2.php AIR INDIA INQUIRY WILL LOOK INTO TEHELKA REPORT ON TALWINDER SINGH PARMAR The Tehelka (www.tehelka.com) report on a former Punjab police officer claiming that he arrested and interrogated prime Air India bombing suspect Talwinder Singh Parmar before he was ordered killed by senior police officials confirms what The VOICE has been saying for years: (1) that Indian police extracted all the information they required from Parmar before killing him (and so they really didn't care what Canada did about the other alleged plotters); and (2) that convicted bomb maker Inderjit Singh Reyat knows who the mysterious Third Man - who accompanied Parmar to his house, stayed with him and later took the bombs from him - is. On the other hand, it is very difficult, indeed, impossible to determine what the roles of various alleged plotters were or even the true extent of their involvement because there are so many claims and counter-claims by people who say they know this or that for sure. Then there are those who want all this confusion to protect those who were really involved in the plot. Also, it is impossible to say to what extent the Indian intelligence services and the Canadian Security Intelligence Service were involved in the plot or how much they really knew or know. Did they have a mole or moles? Who was the mole (or moles)? Anyway, the head of the Air India inquiry, former Supreme Court justice John Major told the media that he will look into this report when the hearings resume. The Globe and Mail's Robert Matas was the first to report about the Tehelka report on Monday. The Tehelka report said that retired Punjab Police Deputy Superintendent of Police (DSP) Harmail Singh Chandi, who reportedly arrested Parmar in the Jammu region of the northern Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir in September, 1992, did not destroy Parmar's confession record although he was instructed to do that. In the confession, Parmar named Lakhbir Singh Brar "Rode", nephew of Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale and head of the banned International Sikh Youth Federation, as the mastermind of the bombing. Rode, who is now believed to be in Lahore, Pakistan. Tehelka reported that Chandi produced all the evidence - including audio-tapes - before the RCMP and the John Major inquiry commission. So apparently he was the mysterious witness who suddenly backed out from giving evidence at the Major inquiry. However, when you go through Parmar's confession there are some points that you need to bear in mind. Both as the son of a former Indian Police Service officer and a crime reporter with The Times of India in New Delhi, I can tell you that Indian police extract confessions by third-degree methods that are nothing but horrible torture. That's a well-known fact and that is the reason why police there often don't report an arrest (by law they must bring the arrested person before a judge within 24 hours) because they first torture the person and then wait for the marks of torture and other related physical conditions to heal. Then they register the arrest officially and bring the person before a judge. Judges, too, have been known to turn a blind eye to visible marks of torture, especially in smaller towns. The victim, too, is often too scared to talk of the torture because he fears he will be tortured again! So Parmar's confession could have been taped only after he agreed to say certain things that the cops wanted him to say. Also, he might have deliberately misled the cops to buy time, naively thinking that being a Canadian citizen he would not be killed. According to the Tehlka report by Vikram Jit Singh, Parmar's confession states: "Around May 1985, a functionary of the International Sikh Youth Federation came to me and introduced himself as Lakhbir Singh and asked me for help in conducting some violent activities to express the resentment of the Sikhs. I told him to come after a few days so that I could arrange for dynamite and battery etc. He told me that he would first like to see a trial of the blast ... After about four days, Lakhbir Singh and another youth, Inderjit Singh Reyat, both came to me. We went into the jungle (of British Columbia). There we joined a dynamite stick with a battery and triggered off a blast. Lakhbir and Inderjit, even at that time, had in their minds a plan to blast an aeroplane. I was not too keen on this plan but agreed to arrange for the dynamite sticks. Inderjit wanted to use for this purpose a transistor fitted with a battery...That very day, they took dynamite sticks from me and left. "Then Lakhbir Singh, Inderjit Singh and their accomplice, Manjit Singh, made a plan to plant bombs in an Air India (AI) plane leaving from Toronto via London for Delhi and another flight that was to leave Tokyo for Bangkok. Lakhbir Singh got the seat booking done from Vancouver to Tokyo and then onwards to Bangkok, while Manjit Singh got it done from Vancouver to Toronto and then from Toronto to Delhi. Inderjit prepared the bags for the flights, which were loaded with dynamite bombs fitted with a battery and transistor. They decided that the suitcases will be booked but they themselves will not travel by the same flights although they will take the boarding passes. After preparing these bombs, the plan was ready for execution by June 21 or 22, 1985. However, the bomb to be kept in the flight from Tokyo to Delhi via Bangkok exploded at the Narita airport on the conveyor belt. The second suitcase that was loaded on the Toronto-Delhi air flight exploded in the air." According to the Tehelka report, Punjab Human Rights Organization (PHRO) principal investigator Sarabjit Singh said the PHRO's probe has shown that Parmar was killed to hide the name of Lakhbir, who was an Indian agent. He claimed that a plot was hatched to discredit the Sikh movement and that the Punjab Police got orders to eliminate Parmar because he knew too much about the main perpetrators. Tehelka pointed out that although Lakhbir is accused in many acts of terrorism, he is wanted by the Indian government in only a minor case registered in Moga, Punjab. The Globe and Mail's Robert Matas reported: "Lakhbir Singh Brar came to Canada in April, 1985, as a refugee. He was identified as a national security risk by Canada's security service and deported in the early 1990s." Interestingly, Tehelka reported that when the police officer - Satish K. Kumar, who was a Senior Superintendent of Police at the time and is now an Inspector General of Police - who reportedly killed Parmar in an encounter, was asked about the charge that Parmar was murdered by the police, he shot back: "It was a clean encounter. The RCMP is bringing this up because they botched their investigations and failed to get convictions." Interesting masala, eh!

i better not get banned for making these comments, cause i had to make a new account with totally different name ive bin to punjab and know many punjabi hindus in punjab and in canada, they love sikhs and many of their family's have traditions to raise their eldest son as a sikh and this tradition exsists amongst many in haryana as well bollywood's top actors are muslims, tell me this how can you blame hindus for using bollywood to destroy the sikh image when muslims are in control of bollywood, why you think the hindutva nut jobs are so against bollywood cause they don't like seeing how hindus love muslims like salman khan shuruk khan

Stop being a Muslim (sorry for that ) When a Muslim dose something wrong all the other Muslims start saying " o he's no not muslim , muslims don't do those kind of things because thats not what islam tells them to do" Dose it make the person a non Muslim if he breaks a Islam rule NO! If it was like that then there would only be about 100 Sikhs in the world ....... Unless they have a good reason I hope God dose not But in the end Those are my thoughts............. Just shareing them, Rest is how you make of them LOL don't be a Muslim. That's a good one!!!! Well here is the reason why it must be said they are not Sikhs for committing such a horrible crime. Because when a non-Sikh see or hears about this story the first thing that comes up is. Who did it and they say Sikh. So since they are being classified as Sikh and Sikhi is against this completely then we have no chioce, but to condemn the act and say they are not Sikh for it. If we don't make that clear then non-sikh or younger Sikhs see this as a Sikh teaching and this puts Sikhi in a bad light. It misrepresents Sikhi and all the Gursikhs that follow Sikhi correctly. Also if it is not said, then other younger Sikh can see this as a way to solve a problem they have with other youth. We can see that now. The youth justfy most of there illegal activites using the practice of Sikhi; if all means fail then its right to pick up the sword. They misuse this concept to benefit themselves. As these guys(malik) justify there wrong doing saying its for Khalsa Panth. WRONG, this is condemned in Sikhi, so only way out to spread the correct message is to say they are not Sikh for committing the act of bombing innocent people. God forgives many horrible acts a person does. God does not hold grudges against anyone. Nor does he hate anyone. Admitting they did it would be the apologize God would be looking for. Own up to what you have done is another Sikhi practice. Just to kill one person they killed hundreds. It's just wrong. And the person they were going after didn't even board the flight so even they failed at their mission.

Another thing I heard, 70% sure it is true, Malik had transport drugs from India inside Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji's Birs. There is alot of other things being said to what he has done in the past and more than half of it is true. Also Malik causes alot of trouble in Gurdwaras that don't follow what he says. And i'm not talking about tables and chairs issue. These issue are related to control and money. B.C. is plaqued with alot of phony Singhs and they are at the head of Gurdwaras, who wear the Sikh identity. But behind closed doors sell drugs to the youth to make millions.

In my opinion and looking at both sides of the story, I can only conclude that Malik was apart of the bombing. I know some have come up with the theory that the Indian government did it to make the Sikhs look bad. But once you look at that angle it just doesn't add up. The guys that did this bombing are not consider Sikh at all. Guru Sahib is completely against this kind of killing. They might have the Sikh identity and run big business, and khalsa schools, but that does not justify their wrong doing. I hope God forgives them for such a horrible crime on innocent lives. Hey don't take my word for it do the research yourself and see what you get.