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Thanks bro, for bringing forward these evil facts, which for sure are of public and human interest. The bad facts of the devlish culture can not remain undercovered.

Paedophilia, grooming, hatred and terrorism, can never be excused or justified under no circumstances. To act or agree with it otherwise, is just sickening.

Maybe your 'posh' accent cheesed them off and they didn't want you affecting other people with your airs and graces?

Good riddance lol

The Christians remember the poor and homeless during Xmas and then forget for the rest of the year. The Muslims remember the poor and homeless during Ramadan and then forget for the rest of the year. We Sikhs remember the poor and homeless all year round. The Muslims helps a non Muslim so he can convert them. A Christian helps a non Christian so he can convert them. We Sikhs help non Sikhs with no strings attached. Big difference

Check this *edit* out..... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5263981/Student-Birmingham-bought-car-bomb-kill-parents.html

KATE HOEY: Joe Biden cheerfully posed for pictures with an IRA terrorist. Any unionist with an ounce of sense knows he’s NOT their friend President Joe Biden has already left Northern Ireland. In truth, he was barely here. The U.S. leader quit Belfast as soon as he could and jetted to where he really wanted to be: exploring his ancestral roots in the Irish Republic. Biden’s 17-hour visit to Northern Ireland — he may have spent half that time asleep — ended with a speech at the University of Ulster, carefully scripted to ensure the notoriously gaffe-prone premier didn’t make any diplomatic blunders. The official reason for his Belfast stopover, of course, was to mark the 25th Anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement, also known as the Belfast Agreement. The visit was meant to feature a presidential address to the Northern Ireland Assembly at Stormont as well as photographs with smiling politicians. But it wasn’t to be. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11967087/KATE-HOEY-unionist-ounce-sense-knows-Joe-Bidens-NOT-friend.html

1. We are a dharam not a religion. The term religion is a western definition. 2. Guru Nanak Dev Ji made a start on this dharam but he was in my opinion starting something which existed inside of us since forever. 3. Sikhi will have similarly with Hindu dharams as we have come from the same part of the world. Also because Hindus have got some things right in terms of reincarnation and karma so they have similar concepts but they have not grasped them fully like our Gurus showed us. 4. It is not one god but one-ness. The concept of one has always been there. The Islamic concept of one God is not the same as ours. Ours is much more in depth. The Islamic concept is one thing to the lay person and a completely different thing to their scholars and their higher ups. 5. Guru Nanak did not copy anything from anyone. Neither was he influenced. He used concepts and terminology that the people of the subcontinent would be able to comprehend to connect to the one. Here is an anology for you. If the truth was a cake, Sikhi would be the whole cake. If you cut the cake into several slices. You have difference slices. Hindu dharam is one slice and Islam is another slice. Even if you have these slices, Sikhi would be all the slices. You should read mool mantar and japji sahib. Don't be lazy.

How would you go about letting your parents know you wanted to move it out in the future? I care for them, but they are somewhat controlling and clingy and can drain your energy often if you stay around them too much with all the arguing, and personal unhappiness/dukh and sometimes bitterness they carry with them. There's not much space where you can avoid them when they're not in a good mood and try to farm and keep your own peace internally and there isn't much privacy or space to act independently and it feels like I'm not free. Like I can't really go anywhere without them asking to know where I went, or if I achieve something (small or big) or try to build some routine/habit, they can't help themselves from telling other people despite me telling them not to do that many times. So one quick example, I started a diet plan like 2 weeks ago to start getting into shape and told them not to tell anyone else. They didn't agree with my actual diet plan and weren't too happy that I wasn't following their ideas. I started having like 1-2 rotis max per meal and I wouldn't have roti if the sabji wasn't high in protein like gobi, or gajara and I would make something else for myself instead plus I would go light on the gyo which always ticked them off and there would always be some argument whenever that happened. A few weeks later at a familly event they tell everyone I am dieting and all these uncles I don't know start giving their advice. I was mad because it seemed my parents were trying to get some revenge on me for not following their advice of having more roti and gyo by telling them something I told them not to share and they seemed to enjoy it somewhat. I really like my privacy and would rather keep as much as I can to myself. I don't really want anyone to know what I am doing because then your always being watched and everyone knows the cards in your hands and since I can't really trust people to keep anything private, I don't feel free at all and while I do what I can, I can feel the drainage of having to constantly resist this part of their nature to somewhat control and keep me codependent. How much more could I do/accomplish if I didn't have to dedicate energy against my parents or if they weren't frequently draining it. This is one small and example and on its own it's really a nothing, but all these small nothings add up and lead to bigger things, and I've noticed this is common in our community and it happens to some of my cousins as well. Maybe it's the parents way of carrying their children as their trophies, but the bigger problem is I think deep down that I won't be able to develop properly as an adult if I keep living with them for my entire life or atleast if I never venture out on my own once. I plan on helping them when they get older cause they're my parents and really do want good for them or atleast I think I do, and I may temporarily move in with them or have them move in with me if I want to spend more time with them or their health starts go do down cause time changes everything. But, from previous experiences of trying to help them deal with their problems I noticed that they will very quickly try to depend on me to fix their problems and in a sense try to drown me with them. I already somewhat made it out once thanks to maharaj's kirpa, so I don't want to be pulled back in but I don't want them to drown either, so I think the best I can do for them is to lend them a stick and help them from a distance, but if they don't take help then there's nothing more that I can really do for them. I think the idea of their children moving out makes them angry/sad and it's more a storm of a bunch of different emotions mixed in at once with some attachment-clingy or dependency kind of love and maybe some sense of needing to control. I tried dropping hints to test a reaction and it didn't go well. For now, I try to keep my own peace internally and not let them drain it or let their negativity rub off on me so that the cycle ends with them and so if I become a father in the future, my kids won't see those negative aspects of my parents reflected through me and they hopefully benefit from that and can go further down the line morally for their future legacy. But, of course there's still days where it feels overwhelming to deal with it and it's always affecting other areas of my life and in those moments of weakness, I go back to guru sahib to get some more strength to hold the fort and I carry on trying to remove all bitterness/ negativity from my own mind and try instead to fill my mind with peace and coolness by sometimes doing simran while allowing myself to just feel grateful for everything I have as deeply as I can allow, for even these simple clothes that I wear now or the blankets that keep me warm at night are god's blessings. I want to be that person in a group who simply by just being around you feel that same pure energy in your own mind which gives you some temporary relief to your own suffering and gives you hope for your own life. It's kind of like what I am feeling right now, but I want to be overflowing with this energy, this sukh from naam. There's not enough people like that in the world and the few who are have to be extremely cautious not to be swarmed and overwhelmed by the dukhs of other people and again be thrown back into the same mess they escaped in the first place and become loaded with dukh all over again. What would you guys advise as parents or children would be the best way to deal with all this? Do I really need to live with my parents their entire lives to take care of them even if I intend to help them later in their times of most need? How would you guys balance this drive for independence and also responsibility to care for your parents as an independent adult? Did you guys go through similar things? Any general advice, or tips from experience? All appreciated.

Also, if you move out and another sibling stays to look after them long term, expect repercussions on the inheritance front. Personally if certain kids looks after parents more than others (by say staying with them) I don't see anything wrong with them getting a lion's share myself. I'm just saying this so you know what you might experience.

I think you have given us a good insight into your parents and family life. Having understood your situation I don't think your parents will pick up on subtle hints to improve their attitude and behaviour as you seem to expect. It may need more direct communication if you want to motivate them. And don't bank on knowing how they will react (with unconditional love) if they feel betrayed.

I was actually worried a little about the potential daughter in law and just the other day they were talking how happy they would be to have a daughter in law to help out around the house and how much they would enjoy taking care of potential grandchildren. I was immediately imagining this imaginary wife getting into some argument with my parents about taking care of the child and then my parents coming to me to pick sides. I think one way of preventing the resentment and hatred from building up is to just dive all into the affection and love for them and to do as much as I can to make the situation better rather than letting it go off. It may hurt a lot if things don't workout but that's a necessary risk to change the relationship so much from where it is now to a healthy positive relationship. If these next few months don't workout, this will basically be the backup option. There's a big family cost to you and your future generations for moving out and starting again on your own as well as your immediate family. Ideally, if a family can stick together and work together in a healthy way as a team unit and not harm each other, they can easily become a big success and lay the foundations for success for all future generations. The goal is now to see if everything can workout if I really make a full effort.

I don't intend to deceive them or lie to them at all. I want to be honest with them fully and tell what I think atleast once. I have been thinking how I should tell them in the best way possible where I'm still saying everything I want to say and their potential negative reactions are minimized. I keep rehearsing in my head because then even if everyone gets very emotionally reactive, I will be less likely to react in the same way and make the situation worse. I don't think they would ever go for family therapy or want to involve a third person and I wouldn't want that either. I plan on talking to them soon properly sharing my concerns but not telling them of my intent to move out ( I think I will type up what I plan on saying formally and seek for some final advice on parts of the good draft before going in). I don't want them to change for fear of me moving out as that's not rooted in a healthy place, nor do I want them to think I'm blackmailing them. The biggest points I'd talk to them about changing is the constant fighting/arguing they do daily with each other and sometimes with us. Then I'd also want to set boundaries properly where they stop dumping their emotional problems onto me or have me pick sides in their arguments, or try to have me help them sort out their emotional problems and then simultaneously treat me like an infant. But if I could just have one thing out of all of it I'd want some space and privacy in the house where I don't hear any sound coming from the rest of the house, no tv, no phonecalls, no arguing. .Just somewhere I can go to be alone undisturbed if they're not in a good mood. Someplace I can just go and sit with my mind and do some simran or reflection to find that happiness within. That's the biggest reason I want to move out. To have some quiet place where I can live in this peace. Sometimes I just sit in the washroom for like half an hour with the fan on cause that takes away a good bit of noise, and I just slow my mind down and sit with myself and focus internally. Within the first 10 minutes usually, the worst of the feelings are fading away and my mind starts to slow down and peace starts to come in. All it takes to feel better for me after a bad day is usually this or 20 minutes of simran before I go to sleep. I usually meditate before sleep cause I sleep the latest of everyone and so everyone else is asleep by then. That makes it much quieter and peaceful late at night but it's been screwing up my sleep schedule and productivity lately and I don't think are bodies are naturally meant to be nocturnal and so now I'm trying to fix that. With living at home right now, there isn't enough quietness or peace in the house throughout the day where I can focus fully on the simran or other habits I'm trying to build secretly but there's a small window of hours at night where I can do my simran, workout, work on some skills and be done my personal routine and most of my daily productivity before everyone even gets up or can know. I can overcome the negativity and draining effect because this routine is so energizing and powerful. Maybe I can have more space/quiet by fixing my routine and so maybe I won't have to move out, and maybe life can be good for everyone more often if I had enough energy to overpower my parent's energy and let that influence them positively like theirs influenced me negatively. Maybe they could change for the better. However, I feel like I wasted my entire day if I'm unable to get up early for a day because I missed the golden hours and the rest day is all off without that starting power boost. I've also noticed I'm usually much happier when I'm alone with my siblings and our parents are out somewhere and they're usually much happier too. That's when we usually can relax and really let go and have the most fun, like ordering pizza and watching a movie or some tv show. I also want my parents to stop sharing things to others about my life (partly why I'm trying to build a secret routine), but I'd even more prefer if no one knew at all, because just having someone know of some good thing or quality or routine you have takes away from it and it's exponentially more worse if they tell others which they do by habit. I have hope for change, so I'm going to fix my routine and have a talk with my parents soon to see if we can make things work and see if things can change. I really want to spend time with my siblings and have a good relationship with my parents and have a good family environment overall so I will do the best I can. However, I am still making all the preparations for M-day(moving day) a few months away as a backup and my parents will have until then to show progress or otherwise I am out. In the absolute worst case, it's just a few more bad months of making my best effort and in the best case, the family improves and becomes whole. The rest is in guru sahib's hands. I am going to gurduwara sahib this weekend and will take the morning parkash hukamana they usually have on the tv screen as my personal hukamana and do ardaas for everything to work out. Again thank you all for your advice. It helps clear up and organize my thoughts sharing them here with you and helps prevent me from making big lifelong mistakes and handle the situation better.

Okay, you're lucky with having two siblings because it means duties can be divided instead of thrown on one head (later on) I would not advise you to leave and take your brother with you. That's subjecting the olders to an excess of trauma. Get your own place sorted out. Make it near your parents place, because you'll have to keep an eye out for them and your younger siblings. You have to be able to get to them sharpish if required, especially as they age. By being closer, you'll save a lot of time and money, rather than having to traipse half way across town to reach them. You're the oldest boy, so in time you'll have the responsibility of an older before the others (unless you abdicate like a pu55y). See it as you've done your time there, and they have to do theirs. When you get your place, have your brother(s) come around and maybe the older one even stay overnight (occasionally). I wouldn't tell anyone to move away from their parents lightly; but the sad fact is that it's not unknown for pressure cooker like home environments like that to cause irreversible rifts and estrangement. Better you move out, then stick around and have it come to that. Plus, you'll have a safe space ready for the younguns if they ever 'storm out of the house'. Believe you me, most young people get into a world a trouble because of this. Leaving the house, angry and frustrated and then ending up Waheguru knows where to get away. That's where a lot of abuse takes place, but I should also say that boys often learn to become streetwise in this way. With girls, we know what their outcome is usually going to be when they do this (groomed, abused and/or used). Firstly you'll have resentment directed towards you (by your family, and maybe even siblings for feeling deserted), but this move will hopefully give you an opportunity to redefine your relationship with your parents on a more positive footing. I do strongly believe that absence can make the heart grow fonder, and that familiarity frequently breeds contempt. I hope all the best for you, whatever decision you make.

If you want to move far from your parents, you could try and get a job away from where you live and move near there.

Thanks for the responses. Yeah got 2 younger brothers, one is a year younger we'll call him sibling 1 the other is 10 years younger or sibling 2. We get along great and there's no problems between us at all. In fact the time I spend with them daily is the highlight of my day and I am grateful for having siblings like them. Me and sibling 1 are on the same page with our parents and we have this unspoken understanding where if they both get into some argument, we'll just do what we can to stay out of it as much as we can and not get entangled. Like especially we're in the car on some long drive we'll just plug in some headphones and start watching some youtube videos or tv shows, or listen to some instrumental music etc and enjoy the view outside as we drive along and hear their voices fade into the background. I had asked sibling 1 last year if they would be willing to move out with me if I ever did in the near future and they had surprisingly said yes. I haven't asked him again since nor mentioned the idea but I am planning to move as if sibling 1 would come along, this way in either case if he chooses to come along or not everything will be ready. We don't talk to sibling 2 about about our parents infront of him because he's too young I think and I'm not sure how it may affect him. I am concerned about leaving sibling 2 behind all alone because I don't want him to grow to resent us or an even worse problem is if he finds a bad group of friends to substitute us and we come home one day to find him on a bad path. I would be responsible for that. On the other hand, I think sometimes maybe it'd be better for sibling 2 if sibling 1 stayed with him at home so his world doesn't fall apart entirely and it might be easier for him to deal with. But then if sibling 1 really wants to come along, how could I tell him to stay while I go out on my own? Either way, I am worried about hurting sibling 2 and question if I'm being too selfish sometimes, but for now, I am spending time with him to make good times and the most out of it so hopefully that becomes a base for him where he can draw strength from and hopefully one day he becomes strong enough on his own to not fall into the influence of other kids and be able to stand alone if he has to for his own principles. I got a taste of all of that when I tried dropping hints to test their reaction,"how could you be so selfish, we've worked all our lives for you, this is not our culture, you promised us when you were younger(10) you would stay with us, where are you getting these ideas, you're supposed to help us retire, how will the siblings deal with it, do you hate us?, we'll die if you leave", I didn't push it further and dropped it as a joke where they calmed down, but I'd expect them to get really angry if I kept following through. Ideally, I want to be able to leave on as good of a note as I can. I don't want to just go missing in the middle of the night and not talk to them for 10 years and showup one day for a funeral, that's just a trainwreck for everyone. I want to leave the door open for a better relationship, because I think there is hope for change and a healthy relationship in the future. It just may take some time and I plan on dropping by every so often to check on them and see if they've changed a little. Like I was thinking maybe after first moving out, I would go back home after 2-4 months of no contact for a quick surprise day in day out visit for a few hours and see how they've been doing. Then if they are starting to change for the better, maybe come by again on surprise in 2-4 weeks and start keeping in touch slowly. If they turned for the worse and became more bitter, then try to have a good conversation and explain your thoughts some and keep checking in on them every month or two afterwards. I have some rough ideas for the actual day I plan on the big move, I just have a rough date right now and not set in stone. For one, I plan on leaving them some money behind to cover 1-2 month's worth of expenses as a good gesture so hopefully they don't think I hate them. Two, I don't plan on telling them where I am moving to until they show significant progress and they're at a point where they made it out of the tunnel and I believe they won't ever turn back. I am doing this because I am worried if I tell them where I'm going they will probably show up unannounced or even worse send other family members unannounced as diplomats to talk some sense into me to fix a problem they have no business dealing with. I am already expecting my parents to tell everyone in the family if I move out probably within the first few days, and in the worst case, I also expect them to play the victim card so they can make everyone feel bad for them and slowly turn the family against me. I'm okay with that, because I know the family members I trust won't so easily be swayed to picking a side and they would try to avoid this drama and wouldn't be the ones gossiping about it, and so long as I do my best to leave on a good note, I think they would understand and as long as they understand ,everything's good. This way, I'll only be left with family bridges with the best family members and the rest can poison each other for the rest of their lives, good riddance, life is too precious to be wasted on distant toxic family members, my parents are within my sphere and somewhat my responsibility so they rank higher than other distant family members in terms of who I should focus on helping. Third thing, I've been trying to figure out recently, is if I should give them a few days heads up or just tell them 1 afternoon I am going today? Obviously no notice is going to lead to a bigger explosive reaction, but giving them a few days might be enough for them to setup some intervention and come up with some plot/schemes. Again, I don't hate my parents, I am resentful somewhat if I'm being honest even though I don't really want to be. I would love if we could all get along though and they could actually learn to be happy or atleast not struggling through life everyday. There comes some days every so often where everyone is in a good mood and I actually feel like staying because it's such a nice feeling of belonging, but there's many bad days that overshadow it. There could be many more good days and that occasional taste keeps hope alive for a decent future relationship. I plan on secretly setting up a retirement fund for them if I can do well for myself cause under no circumstance do I want to see my parents living in some retirement home. I don't plan on telling them about it because they are bad with finances so would probably start spending more accordingly if I did. I also don't want them to expect to receive money from me consistently because it will lead to the same problem of overspending. I'd rather send them unexpected amounts randomly to throw them off. I also want to payoff some of their house too one day, but that's a big maybe in the future.

@GuestSingh12345 Do you have any siblings bro?

Don't see the islamic pedo thing as separate from the white pedo thing. They were originally separate entities, but are now in a symbiotic love fest in the homeland of the english. This is something worth watching, especially for the Canuck brothers:

corruption starts of at national level in india and then trickles down to state level and from state level it spreads into the towns and villages. Corruption is deeply routed in that country, in fact this exists in most 3rd world countries. corruption is part of the culture there, i think indians dont know how to run countries because they never ran a country for a 1000yrs. i think india is beyond repair, corruption is deeply embedded in the way of life there, its too late. didn't sonia gandhi have crazy amount of money stashed in foreign banks? that country has no hope.... its a shame because before the invasions india was a land of discovery, spiritual discussion and debate with its own unique culture. knocking your own people down is also another trait shared by most people from 3rd world countries. Blacks, pakis, somalis, hindus they all do it. not sure why this is. people from 3rd world countries seem to all have similar traits. i know a few black people and they all say how blacks bring other blacks down. pakis are the same. i think a lot of the indians here who came decades ago are maybe envious of the newer ones? indians decades ago worked harder, faced racism, poverty, they had to build communities themselves, i dunno ... west is the best place to live.

In one way I'm not surprised at the local reaction. For a while now, it looks like these dodgy 'colleges' that have sprung up all over the place seem like frauds. Many immigrant students seem to enroll on them just to get some stay here. Often they don't even have a sufficient grasp of English to understand the lectures they attend, let alone pass assignments. And they go for loans that are easily available for higher courses like HNDs - getting them into further debt. As highlighted in that video I posted, the establishment here isn't going to complain because they are getting funds from abroad invested into the country, and we all know a lot of the people who do this from our community have flogged off land back home. So for the people whose dreams don't come true, it's another financial drainage from Panjab outwards. Plus, given that the average pendus dream is to be a builder here - a market pretty much saturated as it is, with existing labour from apnay and eastern Europeans, they are taking serious risks. As we know from recent tragic events, getting knocked is common, and people seem to naturally want to exploit vulnerable others.

Student visa market fits into the rental market and makes lots of money for the immigration lawyers. It is an industry in itself. Apne being apneh will exploit. The student visa English requirements have been lowered, Australia used to be more favourable because of their lower band requirements but they have gotten stricter and now Canada is back in fashion. This has been going on for nearly 2 decades, the scam is up and people are wising up to it. That is why existing Punjabis can be very resentful.

Would of been corrupt like any other of the royals today. Plus it probably would of been kept in the family so descendants of maharaja ranjit singh would of been maharaja and hogged most of pubjabs wealth for themselves. I think if a sikh empire were to come back then rather than a maharaja maybe 5 pyare could be the heads

iv got this book at home but havent read the whole thing. iv read up to to the part where she goes punjab and then comes back. her father so far in the book is a rubbish father. completely neglected her and her siblings and his wife. his wife died lonely, abandoned and an alcoholic, and he spent his all his money on gambling and whores and its got nothing to do with victoria, he chose to neglect his family and spend money at brothels. from what i remember reading he hardly spent any time with his kids and sent them a letter once or twice a year. i have read the lascars part or the whole suffragette part.

Bump - worth reading folks.

No, bro, Daily Mail is located in London. That is not currently a part of India, though some Englishmen would beg to differ. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/contactus/index.html Anyway, the Daily Mail website has tab links "UK", "US", and "India" at the top. When you click a tab, you get stories specially picked out for readers from those countries. Granted, Daily Mail has opened up branch office in both the US and India, but it's still controlled from the UK, and the India office does not write up UK stories, even if they involve British Indians.

What a bandar! Clearly doesn't get out much. Ordered a ready to use explosive online and expected to get away with it? Hilarious ?

enough time to get converted ....

daily mail on line is based in India So guess the sikh hate

during the investigation phase of a crime no details are released to prevent the dismissing of evidence relied on, compromise the investigation or the case as a whole because of prejudice from coverage affecting jury . Most cases never come to press until after convinction , and the fact that sikhs are the least criminally inclined out of the minorities in the UK mean even less chance of being in press. Probably picked up on because of Carbomb phrase in court proceedings.

The only thing I can say from any experience I have, is that photo isn't real. the press here are very careful of falling foul of the law since they are already on blast for destroying evidence in an active case of murder of a teen ... why would it be so hard to believe it ? they bombed a gurdwara in Germany ...

And that is a VERY VERY dangerous situation to be in for obvious reasons. Especially in certain places that is dominated by other competing aggressive communities. That must be it. What a greedy, selfish b**tard. Couldn't just walk off and live his life, tried to get it all.

there are too many fragile 'snowflakes' compared to my/our generation and it might be the case they need to grow a pair, I'm afraid we're in a small minority and it's shrinking by the day. who knows maybe he had his eye on inheritance £££

It did make me giggle, just questioning whether it needs to be clearly spelled out when we might have impressionable younger readers.

Read about this low life scum, but do you HAVE to use the complete F word, try as asterisk out some of it at least

A Sikh lawyers turban was kicked off his head as he was beaten to the ground in a racist attack outside St Pauls Cathedral, a court has heard. Rashvinder Singh Panesar and his wife Sundeep Kaur Panesar were making their way home from a meeting in the City of London when they were set upon, the Old Bailey heard. Aravinth Kandasamy, 26, and Luxmanan Mahendran, 27, allegedly shouted 'lets kick his turban off' and 'kick it away' as they kicked and punched Mr Panesar in April last year. When Mrs Panesar, also a lawyer, tried to intervene and retrieve her husbands red turban, she was grabbed and almost knocked to the ground by Mahendran, it is alleged. The court heard Mr Panesar suffered a fractured nose, a chipped tooth, injured his knee and had both his contact lenses knocked out in the alleged attack, which took place in Carter Lane, at around 10.45pm on 26 April 2013. Kandasamy, of Ilford, Essex, and Mahendran, of Arnos Grove, north London, deny two counts of racially aggravated assault occasioning actual bodily harm. Mahendran also denies assault by beating. Prosecutor Louis French said: Mr and Mrs Panesar are Sikhs and in the custom that Sikhs have Mr Panesar was wearing a turban, quite a colourful one that night, it was red.' He said the couple had been to a meeting of the Society of Asian Lawyers. He said: It was about 10.30pm when they left the bar, walking together along Carter Lane crossing a pavement heading towards the cathedral. They went to the roadside and stood hoping to hail down a black cab. The couple noticed three men straight ahead of them, one of those men made an offensive remark tuck me in b****. One of the group said f*** you we are going to put you to sleep, were going to tuck you in. The two other men joined in these remarks which were being shouted. Another said: "F*** you, dont you know who we are?"' Mr French said it turned aggressive and the men 'seemed to be encouraging each other'. He said: These three men closed in on Mr Panesar and the verbal abuse continued, Mrs Panesar was called a b****. Mr Panesar was pushed to the ground and then set upon by the gang, the jury was told. They then started to quite seriously attack him by punching and kicking him, said Mr French. He was desperately stood there out-numbered and trying to fend them off. But in the course of this violent attack he was brought down to the ground where he was kicked and punched to his face, body and his back. One of the men shouted lets kick his turban off and thats precisely what was done. Mr Panesars turban was removed by kicking and another man shouted kick it away. Mrs Panesar ran over and went to try and retrieve it but as she did so she was grabbed and almost knocked to the ground. The person who did that was Mahendran. Both defendants claim that their alleged victim was aggressive towards them first, the court heard. The trial continues. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2543343/Sikh-lawyers-turban-kicked-head-beaten-ground-racist-attack-City-London.html

What a lot of Pakistanis have is a particular type of Machismo, it can be called "Pakismo" The Arabs, Persian and Turks are the muslim master races, the ones from the subcontinent are not. There are two types of muslims on the continent, the Ashrafs and the Aljafs. The Ashrafs claim Arab, Persian, Central Asian descent who consider themselves as tall and fairwhere as the Aljafs are considered the low caste, small dark rice eating types. I have been to Dubai, and it is very interesting to watch the various communities of muslims interact with each other.The muslims from the subcontinent are treated like dirt and can only think of one solution for them, come back to the fold and leave Islam.

I think some people here are blaming the parents way to much! The main problem is the parents are the last to know about theses relationships. The girls are very good at hiding these relationships in colleges and in universities. The first step is for the parents themselves to check on their kids at schools and colleges to make sure their kids are not with the wrong crowd and in these inter-faith relationships.This is what Muslims are very good at. I remember when I was at college the Muslims parents would often come to college to check on their kids to see if they were getting up to no good. and not dating anyone and everyone. Nowaday the parents are so busy at work. they just leave their kids at college . dont check up on them. hence the Sikh girls can continue to hide the relationships very deviously behind the parents back. And the parents only find out about the relationships when its to late and the girls is in a brothel or on drugs. Parents defiantly need to be more proactive this goes for older brothers to. There is no excuse no for parents not to check up on their kids. As people are more aware about the grooming thats going on. Before they though their kids were angels studying hard. but thats not the case. Sikh girls need to come down a peg or two.. instead of them dictating to their parents.

My father used to tell me one thing," before you look at the girl, look the mother". That tells you something. This is an old Punjabi saying. For all a Middle aged Sikh males faults, there are certain things he will not be able to relate to with his daughter, particularly a teenage girl, so I imagine a leaves a lot of that kind of stuff to the mother. The question, is where are the mothers in all this. What kind of female role model example are they setting?

Why not inform the Muslim girl's parents as well? Sorry but that makes us look as hypocritical as those we're fighting.

Dear Sangat A new Sikh School has opened and I received a youtube clip, please cascade this. Dear Moderator, I hope you are OK with me attaching the link

Hsisingh This particular topic is about grooming, if you feel the need to talk about sexual crimes in Punjab, perhaps you can set it up as a seperate topic and we can discuss the issues.

If I was an outsider, I'd think (a) these men are sick individuals who deserve to die in prison and (b) I'd think Punjab is a Sikh-majority state (just about) and therefore it is not surprising that most criminals and rapists will be from a Sikh background. In the same way that the majority of the rapists in the UK are white english, the majority in France will be white french. The point of THIS thread, however, is that a significant disproportionate number of rapists/groomers in a non-Islamic country (United Kingdom) are pakistani muslim (note: majority of rapists/groomers are still white in the UK, but a disproportionate number are pakistani-origin). Had we have been living in Pakistan, this wouldn't even be news unfortunately. Unfortunately for the UK, political correctness has infested our institutions to the extent they aren't willing to call a spade a spade. Not to mention the large muslim vote bank, which means politicians aren't willing to call a spade a spade either.

Jains are also a mercantile community, my observation is that the communities that are involved in mercantile activities seem to be more anti-sikh than those that are non mercantile communities. We need to understand why these communities feel so threatened by Sikhs?

Khalsa Ji, I had the opportunity to speak to a few girls, from the Sikh community, who ran away fro home. The one common factor, behind their decision, was the lack of understanding offered by their parents etc. These girls felt that no one was listening to their views, these girls felt like commodities rather than human beings. These girls became scared. Their fear was exploited by vermin, who gave them a false sense of security. These girls were yearning for affection, understanding, and communication; something they felt was not available at home. As long as we, as a Sikh community, do not listen to our daughters, do not show respect, do not show affection, and do not give them time; the alternative will be the vermin seizing the opportunity. As Sikhs we have focused on material wealth, but have lost the real wealth, I.e. our children. There are always exceptions to the rule, but the above summarises the vast majority of Sikh girls, who were sidelined by their own families. Apologies for any offence caused; my heart goes out for the parents, as well the girls, but our community needs to re-evaluate our attitudes... Waheguru....

good points jashb. Sikh identity must be promoted over all other identities. A Punjab identity is good too but not if it makes our youth into secularists/liberals. In 1947, the Punjabi identity was destroyed when when the majority of Punjabis(Muslims) decided to kill Sikhs and Hindus of Punjab. After 1947 Punjabi identity was further destroyed when Punjabi Hindus out of communal mindset decided to abandon their mother tongue in favour of Hindi. There is no such thing as "Sher Punjabi" label that Punjabis are so proud of. It should be Sher Sikh. Before the Sikh faith was born, invaders would invade Punjab and Punjabis would do nothing. Punjabi women were taken as slaves and the majority of Punjabis converted to Islam out of fear and this did not move the Anakhi Punjabi one bit. But when Sikh Dharm was born, only the Sikhs began to give a reply to the invaders in the only language they understood and Sikhs were and are a small minority of Punjabis. During the 1700s, when a Punjabi Hindu youth was brave enough he did not join Hindu armies, but rather he converted to Sikhi and joined the Sikh army. Even the Punjabi language which now has an official status is only because of the agitations and hardwork of Sikhs. Look at Pakistan which is the only country in the world where Punjabis are the majority but Punjabi language has no official status like other regional languages such as Sindhi, Pasthun or Balochi does. In India, the Hindus of Punjab were the strongest opposers of giving Punjabi language an official status. But for Sikhs Punjabi language is something else. In other states too where sikligars reside who are not even Punjabis, but even they try to learn and speak Punjabi, I've met non Punjabi Sikhs in Nander even they know how to speak Punjabi. The new Sikhs in Madhya Pradesh are also trying to learn Punjabi. Sikhs do this not because Punjabi is some religious compulsion but out of love for the Gurus who spoke this language.

What this news story must now do is awaken all the sikh parents eyes and. Make them become more assertive in how they bring up their kids. Dometimes tough love is what is needed to ensure kids are kept away from danger. But ultimatley parents need to stop it from occuring in the first place. Prevention is the best for of action then treatment. Girls must wise up and not become deluded and think muslim guys are good people at heart. To many sikh girls have become victims . Its time you learnt what being areal Sikh means and not becoming some muslims poodle and losing all your self respect. This is what happens when sikh girls become stubborn and think they know it all then just get used and abused and come crying home. After theyve turnef their backs on their own. Ad tuff ad it may seem. You only have yourselved to blame. Even if your parents have not guided you properly, you dtill have a brain.

If we had a nation of our own, we could do what the Israelis did when they brought their lost tribes from Yemen, Ethiopia etc. A lot of Yemeni and Ethiopian Jews were being persecuted in their respective countries. If people are against the idea of Khalistan, this is an example how having Khalistan would be an advantage.

It is good that justice has been served. However, we must remain proactive and keep the foot on the pedal. We must understand that the Mini Cab/Halal Fried Chicken nexus is very well connected with the drug and pimp/prostitution trade. These types will go into "Hudabaiya" mode and bide their time and try again.

I wonder if Channel 4 (another media outlet that tends to have a left-wing pro-muslim bias) will also have a similar documentary? You are correct though, once it affects the white majority, the likes of BBC cannot afford to ignore the problem. I think the Jimmy Saville case has opened a lot of people's eyes. The common Pakistani muslim answer would be "It happens in all communities", but the question would back would be "How come it is proportionally much higher in your community, how come your community is over-represented?"

My father was also an alcoholic and I asked him why Sikh/Punjabi men when they get to a certain age start to drink heavily. The answer he gave me was "Because we do not wish to live!". I think a lot of Sikh men suffer from depression and try to kill themselves. I have seen relatives in India as well as UK where Sikh males have killed themselves through alcohol, I have seen our men drink around shop corners with the same depressed expressions on their faces like my father. There is a lot of anger, fustration and bitterness. They tend not to talk about these things and deal with these issues and it manifests itself with heavy drinking.