How Close Are Modern Sikhs With Hinduism..

[Akaali]

How close are modern Sikhs with Hinduism?

[The following article is by Sanjeev Nayyar]

As Punjabis, our family has always worshipped Guru Nanak and Lord Shiva. I saw nothing wrong in this till the recent celebrations of 300 years of Khalsa. Through out the celebration the media and Punjabi leaders kept on harping that Sikhism and Hinduism are different religions. Till recently, visiting a Gurudwara or a temple was a manifestation of belonging to a different sect rather than a separate religion.

Unable to know whether I am a Sikh ( S ) or a Hindu ( H ) , I decided to figure it out for myself. The essay talks about the lives of each Sikh Guru, reasons for the birth of Sikhism, what Guru Nanak stood for, the birth of Khalsa. Read on.

About the Gurus

The Muslims of Central Asia had been invading and ruling Punjab for nearly five hundred years prior to the birth of Guru Nanak ( G N ) in 1469. Forcible conversions, destruction of temples were some of the miseries that Hindus had to face. GN was a witness to the treatment meted out to the people of Punjab by Babur in 1521. Thousands of people were massacred and taken prisoners. The barbarous treatment of prisoners including women broke the tender heart of GN ( he was a Khatri by birth ).

Muslim oppression and the Bhakti ( devotion to God ) movement were responsible for the growth and development of Sikhism ( SK ).

GN was against the caste system and idol worship. GN laid emphasis on five things. 1. Nam or singing the praise of God. 2. Dan or charity. 3. Ashnan or daily bath. 4. Seva or service to humanity. 5. Simran or constant prayer for the deliverance of the soul. Nanak's religion consisted of the love of God, love of man. Nanak's God was the Creator, unborn, formless, omnipresent. To GN the relationship between man and god was similar to the one between husband and wife ie constant companionship. God was everywhere and could be attained by repeating his name continuously. Thus S's greeted each other with Sat Sri Kal or True Timeless one.

GN held that for the realization of God, having a Guru was essential. Without the Guru god could not be realized and one wanders in the darkness of ignorance. A faithful disciple must follow the Guru's instructions implicitly. But the Guru was to be obeyed and not worshipped. GN laid stress on devotion, service and culture of emotions.

Basically God is formless, not something which changes. The very quest for God is a quest for something eternal, and anything which is changing is in the realm of time and is therefore ephemeral, transient. 'Life' of anything which is changing starts with birth and ends with death. None of this applies to God. If God too was something like this then he is not worth praying. Moreover, the famous manta like words SAT SRI AKAL, means God is Sat - i.e. that which exists in all the three periods of time - past, present & future; Sri - means glorious with great power; and Akal - i.e. that which transcends time. So it is very evident that the God which lovingly found a place in the heart of GN was the one which transcended time, he was changeless, eternal truth. This is also what Vedanta reveals.

He emphasized the importance of overcoming the ego to realize God. Realizing the law of cause and effect in the moral and physical world, man realizes the justice of God. GN emphasized the importance of Karma to escape from the transmigration of the soul. Right conduct is closely associated with GN's idea of right belief and worship. GN believed that true renunciation consisted in living a pure life amidst the impurities of attachment. Anyone who has read the Holy Geeta would be familiar with this philosophy. GN only reiterated some of the principles of Vedanta.

He was against fasts, penance, pilgrimages, renunciation of the world. He wanted to create a castles society in which all were equal. Women received great consideration from GN. ( reformists approach )

GN called his religion Gurmat or Guru's wisdom. This word occurs in GN's hyms more than two hundred times. His disciples call themselves Nanak Panthis or Sikhs from the Sanskrit word Sishya, meaning a person who takes spiritual lessons from a teacher. .

Second Guru - Angad or Bhai Lahna Trehan. Before he died GN nominated a kshatriya, GA as his successor ignoring the demand of his son Srichand. GA started collecting GN's hyms which were written in Lande Mahajani, written in a rather rough/crude script. To avoid their misinterpretation, GA decided to beautify the Lande alphabets to give birth to a new script called Gurumukhi meaning that which came out from the mouth of the Guru.

Third Guru - Amar Das Bhalla - GA nominated a kshatriya, GAD as his successor. GAD was against torturing the body, the Purdah system. Starting with GAD the gurudom began to be hereditary.

Fourth Guru Ram Das added to the growing solidarity of the community with a sacred tank in the city of Amritsar, earlier known as Ramdaspur or the town of Guru Ram Das. The tank got expanded into todays Harmandir by GHG. He composed Lavan for the solemnization of the Sikh marriage.

Fifth Guru Arjunmal or Guru Arjun - Born in 1563 GA was an original thinker, illustrious poet, philosopher, organizer. His greatest achievement was the compilation of the Granth Sahib. Written in Gurumukhi script it was completed in 1604. For helping the rebellious son of emperor Jahangir, GA was tied in the burning sun over hot sand and was tortured. Exhausted under its impact he collapsed under the strain and died at the age of forty two only. This event proved to be a turning point in the Sikh attitude towards the Mughals.

Sixth Guru Har Govind - Instructed by his father GHG began the arming of his followers. In front of the Harmandir ( temple dedicated to God ) he constructed the Akal Takt or God's Throne. Tales of valor of Chittor rulers were sung to encourage his followers. After being imprisoned by Jahangir he realized the art of diplomacy. On his release he became a friendly collaborator of the Mughal emperor. This ended with the death of Jehangir. GHG was busy in warfare from 1634 to 1640.

He spent the last two years of his life converting Muslims to Hinduism. While some people have criticized the Guru for engaging the Mughals in a battle that could not be won, he was trying to change the age old mentality of the Hindus of meekly submitting to the oppressor. GHG rendered a great service to the country by showing the true path of deliverance from spiritual bondage. After all, spirituality, must inspire a person to resist the wrong with courage and boldness. The Holy Geeta talks about it too.

The next two Gurus, Har Rai and Har Kishan have not left much of history behind them.

Guru Tegh Bahadur, was the youngest son of GHG. At this time Aurangzib was determined to establish an Islamic state in India and took various measures to oppress the Hindus. Locals were forced to convert to Islam in Punjab and Kashmir. This angered GTH who travelled across Punjab and inspired the Punjabis and Kashmiris to fight against such oppression. Not wanting to face a rebellion, Aurangzib summoned GTH to Delhi. In Delhi he was asked to perform a miracle as proof of his nearness to God. He refused that occult powers were a proof of ones nearness to God. Having failed to perform a miracle, he was asked to accept Islam. He refused and was beheaded in 1675.

Gobind Rai later Guru Gobind Singh - The murder of his father and grand father, oppression of the Hindus got GGS fired up to create a national awakening in Punjab similar to what had been done by Shivaji in Maharashtra.

While reading the Puranas, the Guru was deeply impressed with the idea that Bhagwan had been sending a saviour at critical times to save and destroy evil-doers. He believed he had been sent for the purpose. In the Chandi Charitra the Guru says that in the past God had deputed Durga to destroy the evil doers and this duty had now been assigned to him.

Birth of Khalsa - At a congregation held at Anandpur on 30 March 1699, after a stirring speech about the need to protect Hinduism, he asked if anyone would offer his head in the services of God, Truth, Religion. The five heads that rose were Dayaram a Khatri from Lahore, Dharamdas a Jat from Hastinapur near Delhi, Sahib Chand a barbar from Bidar in Karnataka, Himmat Chand Kahar water carrier from Puri in Orissa and Mohkam Chand Chihimba from Dwarka in Gujarat. These five were designated as the Beloved Ones and termed Khalsa. They would, ironically been called Hindus today.

Meaning of Khalsa - Kh stood for oneself and God. L stands asking God, what do you want with me ? Here am I. The reply of the devotee or Singh was Lord give us freedom and sovereignty. S stands for Lord or master. A stands for azadi, freedom. H stands for a legendary bird Huma.

Significance of 5 K's - GGS provided with his followers with the 5 K's. Kesh-long hair, Kangha-comb, Kirpan-sword, Kara-steel bracelet, Kachcha-knickers. Long hair and turbans were supposed to protect their faces and heads from sword cuts and lathi blows. The Kada was a reminder that a Sikh spirit was strong and unbending. The Kacha was more suitable for fighting the Mughals than the Dhotis and loose trousers of Muslims. Their salutation was to be Wah-e-Guru ji ka Khalsa, Wah-e-Guru ji ki Fateh. It means the Khalsa is Thy Own, O Lord, and so is the Victory.

After relentlessly fighting the Mughals for years, the Guru moved to Nander. Here he was stabbed by two pathan boys. Following the practice of Hindu saints, who at the divine call would set in a samadhi and expire, the Guru had prepared a funeral pyre for himself. He calmly walked into it and that was the end of an illustrious man who along with Shivaji valiantly fought against the Mughals.

Guru Nanak was a reformer and not a revolutionary.

1. GN's was opposed the caste system but it was so mild that it never attracted any opposition from the other caste. Probably they agreed with him.

2. GN's denouncement fasts, penances, piligrames implied attack on perversions and not on the basic tenets of Hinduism. Fasts were only a means to an end and not an end to themselves.

3. GN never depreciated the Vedas. He criticized the blind and mechanical reading of these texts without realizing the God through them.

4. Even the Sacred Thread was not wholly condemned. He denounced the ignorance of the implications of its use.

5. While challenging the predominant position of Hindu deities, GN did not hold them in any disrespect. He wanted people to realize that they were not above God.

6. GN suggested no further change in the civil institution of Hinduism.

In short GN was a reformer like many others who preceded and followed him. The concept of love and devotion preached by him found wide acceptance. Khalsa was the result of Mughal tyranny. The five K's were used to identify people who supported GGS in his fight against the Mughals.

Why Sikhism is not a separate religion ?

1. GN started a reformist movement and not a separate religion. Muslim oppression and the Bhakti Movement were responsible for the birth and growth of Sikhism.

2. The roots of Sikhism lie deep in the Bhakti form of Hinduism and Vedanta. GN picked up some of its salient features - belief in one God who is omnipresent, unity of mankind, emphasis of work as a moral obligation, the gentle way of Sahaj to approach God while fulfilling domestic obligations etc.

3. While the Adi-first Granth is essentially a distillation of Vedanta in Punjabi, the last Dasam- tenth is a compilation of tales of valor of Hindu goddesses. Of the 15028 names of Gods that appear in the Adi Granth, Hari occurs over 8,000 times, Ram 2533 times followed by Prabhu, Gopal, Govind and other Hindu names for the divine. The popular Sikh coinage Wah Guru appears only 16 times.

4. Till some time ago Punjabis were divided into Monas and Sardars. Using todays connotation they are Hindus and Sikhs. Families in Punjab normally dedicated the first son to the army, thus he became a sardar while the others became monas. Thanks to Guru Gobind Singh the Turban came to be associated with valor, someone who would not tolerate oppression. Hence, the first son wore a turban symbolizing valor.

5. Some friends have shed their Khatri ( sub-caste in Punjab) surnames and made Singh their surname or Singh has become the middle name to indicate that they Sikhs. I had a colleague, a sardar, who signed as Manvinder Singh Chaddha on Interoffice memos and as Manvinder Chaddha on the company cheques. Since he wore a turban he added the name Singh to prove that he was a Sikh. Singh means devotee and probably was a middle name with all people who belonged to the warrior class. There are Singhs all over North India. Raja Man Singh was one of Akbar's trusted lieutenants, Rana Pratap Singh of Chittorgarh, Jaswant Singh ( foreign minister ) is a Rajput, Mulayam Singh Yadav, the backward caste leader of U.P, Dr Karan Singh - Maharaja of Kashmir and Digvijay Singh, CM of M.P. Each one of them has the word Singh as the middle or surname yet none of them is a follower of Khalsa.

6. There are Sindhis ( mainly Amils caste ) who follow the Granth Sahib. From the first Muslim invasion in 712 a.d., Sindhis had to bear the brunt of Musilm oppression, torture, destruction of temples, forced conversions. When GN visited Sindh, taken in by his spirit of love and affection for the oppressed, they decided to become his followers.

7. Master Tara Singh, leading lights during the independence movement , was one of the founder members of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad.

There is a book called Hum Hindu Nahin Hai written by Bhai Kahn Singh somewhere in 1890s. It would be interesting to know the arguments given by him.

Why then, have things come to such a pass ? Divide and Rule policy of the British and Lust for Power. Conflict between Singh Sabhas and Arya Samajis, Akalis and Congress, ably exploited by Pakistan ( they wanted to do a Bangladesh to us ) are responsible for the divide.

Surely, there would be friends who disagree with me. I respect their views and am willing to be convinced, corrected. From my Dadis side we are descendants of the third Sikh Guru yet we are known as Hindus today. I am as proud of Guru Gobind Singh as I am Shivaji or Rana Pratap. To me it is politics and nothing else.

NOW SOME QUOTES FROM THE VEDAS

1. Give prominence to intellect over emotions. God has housed your emotional heart and your logical mind in one body. Do not be swayed by emotions, nor be carried away by mere logic. Obtain inspiration from the heart, but guidance from the brain and go ahead with steady steps. The place of reason is higher than the place of the heart ! Try to develop your intellect on the same principles which your enlightened and inspired seers followed. ( Atharva 10.2.26 )

2. Awake, divine people, awake ! He who keeps awake is blessed by the Lord of Soma. He alone is befriended by the divine forces who keeps vigilant. In all his noble deeds Ishwar assures him success. Ishwar helps only those who work hard with vigor and courage.Worthy of the Ishwar's association are not those who are lethargic and sleepy. None ever comes to the aid of those who is morbid and fatalistic. ( Rig 5.44.14 )

3. Happiness is acquired through the joy of worship And the cultivation of virtuous qualities. ( Sama 194 )

4. A true devotee is always soft in speech And considerate towards others. ( Sama 251 )

5. Come, march ahead with courage, Face troubles bravely, No obstacles can check your progress While you are in the right path. ( Rig 1.80.3 )

6. Attain fortitude and firmness By obeying the commandments of the Supreme Lord, Never defy them. ( Yajur 1.2 )

7. Cultivate the strength of will power To conquer the passionate urges Of thy sense organs. ( Rig 5.31.3 )

8. Get rid of jealousy from the heart And eschew violence. ( Sama 274 )

9. The whole of this Universe Is stationed in the Omnipresent And Omnipotent Ishwar, We see him in various forms, He brings to light All these worlds, Him they call the Kala infinite, Pervading the vast sky. ( Atharva 19.53.3 )

10. The flower and fruit bearing herbs, Have beautiful tendrils, They conquer diseases like swift horses, And prove their effacy for the sick And make them healthy and happy. ( Rig10.97.3 )

11. Work for the glory of your country and countrymen speaking different dialects. Give due respect to the faiths and aspirations of the people. Countless are the resources of Mother Earth, from whom flow the river of wealth in hundreds of streams, Worship Motherland as you worship Ishwar. >From time eternal, the Mother Earth is giving life to her children - you owe debt to Her. ( Atharva 12.1.45 )

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

Guru Nanak was not a reformer he brought Waaheguru's bani. Martin Luther King was a reformer.

Granth sahib is sri Guru granth sahib the eternal shabad guru of the sikhs.

the gurus were not khatris, they were beyond the caste system.

this article is RSS garbage to the fifth power.

"Gobind Rai later Guru Gobind Singh - The murder of his father and grand father, oppression of the Hindus got GGS fired up to create a national awakening in Punjab similar to what had been done by Shivaji in Maharashtra."

Guru Sahib was above such things to get "fired" up by tyrants.

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

Another one...ah well...

"he [Guru Nanak Sahib] was a Khatri by birth"

Jesus was a Jew by birth and Muhemmed was a Pagan Arab by birth...though both found their own beliefs. Religion is not genetic, but yet this is the point that every "Sikhism is Hinduism" essay starts with.

"Thus S's greeted each other with Sat Sri Kal or True Timeless one."

Nope...Sat Sri Akal is a battle cry that was used by Sikhs as a greeting much later on. Unless the author has evidence to the contrary of course...

"Basically God is formless, not something which changes. "

Nope. God is recognized as Nirgun (without attributes) AND Sargun (with all attributes).

"Basically God is formless, not something which changes...this is also what Vedanta reveals."

Vedanta is too general. The Upanishads only offer a glimpse of this philisophy of the One Almighty. But the Vedas speak nothing of this. The Vedas speak of rituals that BRahmins were to do to invoke dieties and get work done for their clientile. The Upanishads recognized the Vedas as "inferior". So Vedanta itself is filled with contradictions, with one Granth saying the opposite of the other. Bhai Gurdas Sahib stated it aptly that the scholars of the various Granths would duel each other mentally trying to prove their philosophy and text superior to the other. The truth is that "Vedanta" is a generic term slapped onto many contradictory philosophies that disagree with each other more than agree.

"So it is very evident that the God which lovingly found a place in the heart of GN was the one which transcended time, he was changeless, eternal truth. This is also what Vedanta reveals."

Again, the above, with the added comment that the Vedas themselves speak of rituals pointing to individual dieties (Indra, Vayu, Agni, etc).

" GN believed that true renunciation consisted in living a pure life amidst the impurities of attachment. Anyone who has read the Holy Geeta would be familiar with this philosophy. "

The Geeta outlines a few paths to a spiritual life...one of a pious householder and the other of a renounciate, among others. Guru Nanak Sahib declared the superiority of the "Grist-Jeevan" (married life of a pious householder) in Gurbani.

"He was against fasts, penance, pilgrimages, renunciation of the world. He wanted to create a castles society in which all were equal. Women received great consideration from GN. "

Concepts in direct opposition to Vedanta.

"His disciples call themselves Nanak Panthis or Sikhs from the Sanskrit word Sishya, meaning a person who takes spiritual lessons from a teacher. "

The Sikhs did not call themselves anything...Guru Nanak Sahib himself used the word "Sikh" in Gurbani. And using a Sanskit-based language does not automatically make you a Vedantic religion...ironic that the same Sanskrit-based languaged flayed Brahmins severely in the Guru Granth Sahib (also against the teachings of Vedanta, which held the Brahmin equal to God).

"Second Guru - Angad or Bhai Lahna Trehan. Before he died GN nominated a kshatriya, GA as his successor ignoring the demand of his son Srichand."

Bhai Gurdas Sahib (a text that scholars seem to be scared to refer to) states that the Sikhs would take Charan Amrit and declare Guru Nanak as their Guru. Doing this, the Sikhs forsook all other religious ties and became Sikhs. So Bhai Lenha was not a Hindu/Kshytria, and if he was, he would be violating Hindu Code by taking on a non-Brahmin as his Guru.

"Starting with GAD the gurudom began to be hereditary."

The deeds and the merits of the Guru Sahiban are recorded in history...geneti or not, they were capable of the task and were not simply given it because of genetic relations.

"For helping the rebellious son of emperor Jahangir, GA was tied in the burning sun over hot sand and was tortured. "

The own memoirs of Jahangir point to the real reason of his torturing the Fifth Master...he was tired of non-Muslim religions existing in India. His words were to the extent that the Guru has amassed land and riches, and some Hindus and mindless Muslims have converted to Sikhism and Jahangir had wanted to close that shop for sometime. Mention of assistance to Khusro is not mentioned as the reason.

"This event proved to be a turning point in the Sikh attitude towards the Mughals."

Guru Nanak Sahib chided Babbar for his reign of terror against the Indian populace. The turning point was right at the beginning of the faith.

"After being imprisoned by Jahangir he realized the art of diplomacy. On his release he became a friendly collaborator of the Mughal emperor. This ended with the death of Jehangir. GHG was busy in warfare from 1634 to 1640."

Hahaha...mind telling who he was at war against all that time? He backed Jahangir into a corner to where he had no choice but to release the Guru Sahib. Guru Sahib insisted that 52 princes be released as well...hence his other title...Bandi Chhor.

"He spent the last two years of his life converting Muslims to Hinduism. While some people have criticized the Guru for engaging the Mughals in a battle that could not be won, he was trying to change the age old mentality of the Hindus of meekly submitting to the oppressor. GHG rendered a great service to the country by showing the true path of deliverance from spiritual bondage. After all, spirituality, must inspire a person to resist the wrong with courage and boldness. The Holy Geeta talks about it too."

Guru Hargobind Sahib also won those battles. George Washington won the war against the British and encouraged the Americans to declare freedom against the British...shall we call him an ardent follower of the Geeta too?

"The next two Gurus, Har Rai and Har Kishan have not left much of history behind them."

Then you are not reading the right books, as Sikhs have Sakhis relating to these Gurus.

"This angered GTH who travelled across Punjab and inspired the Punjabis and Kashmiris to fight against such oppression. Not wanting to face a rebellion, Aurangzib summoned GTH to Delhi. In Delhi he was asked to perform a miracle as proof of his nearness to God. He refused that occult powers were a proof of ones nearness to God. Having failed to perform a miracle, he was asked to accept Islam. He refused and was beheaded in 1675."

Guru Tegh Bahadur...angry? To state this is to absolutely ignore Gurbani and any history relating to the Sikhs. Guru Tegh Bahadur was not summoned to Delhi...Guru Tegh Bahadur challenged Aurangjeb to convert him, and if he was successful, he would be free to convert all Hindus to Islam. Aurangjeb, a fan of the occult arts, requested the Guru to perform miracles, convert to Islam or be executed. Guru Sahib did not choose the first two, and was beheaded.

"got GGS fired up to create a national awakening in Punjab similar to what had been done by Shivaji in Maharashtra."

Interesting background information for ya. The Guru of Shivaji was one Raam Daas. Raam Daas, who had heard the name and deeds of Guru Nanak Sahib desired to meet that body who encompassed the soul of that Divine being. He imagined a Fakir in saintly clothing, but was stunned to see a royal figure on a horse...he became disappointed. Raam Daas questioned Guru Sahib about how Guru Nanak was a Fakir, and yet, Guru Sahib was dressed as a King, with a wife, kids and wealth. Guru Sahib answered that the wife is Imman (honor), the children are Nishan (his mark on the world) and wealth is Gujraan (survival). Guru Sahib further stated that outwardly, there was a royal garb, but internally, there is a Fakir. Thus, Guru Sahib satisfied Raam Daas. Inspired by this, Raam Daas's influence on Shivaji and his courageous deeds is evident. (Thanks to my dad for this Sakhi).

As per a "national awakening", Guru Sahib did try...but he also tried to advise the populace to become Sikhs and unite under the banner of the Khalsa. Guru Sahib stated in 1699 at the Amrit ceremony (as recorded by Mughal spy, Gulam-ul-din):

""Let all embrace one creed and obliterate differences of religion. Let the four Hindu castes who have different rules for their guidance abandon them all, adopt the one form of adoration, and become brothers. Let no one deem himself superior to another. Let none pay heed to the Ganges, and other places of pilgrimage which are spoken of with reverence in the Shastras, or adore incarnations such as Rama, Krishna, Brahma, and Durga, but believe in Guru Nanak and the other Sikh Gurus. Let men of the four castes receive my baptism, eat out of one dish, and feel no disgust or contempt for one another."

The speech speaks for itself.

"While reading the Puranas, the Guru was deeply impressed with the idea that Bhagwan had been sending a saviour at critical times to save and destroy evil-doers. He believed he had been sent for the purpose. In the Chandi Charitra the Guru says that in the past God had deputed Durga to destroy the evil doers and this duty had now been assigned to him."

Guru Sahib did translate the Chandi Di Vaar. But Bachittar Natak states that Guru Sahib was sent to spread the true message of the Almighty. Never did he equate himself with Chandi or draw a direct comparison of himself with Chandi. That is forcing two unrelated facts together to make an invalid point.

"At a congregation held at Anandpur on 30 March 1699, after a stirring speech about the need to protect Hinduism, he asked if anyone would offer his head in the services of God, Truth, Religion."

Read above speech of 1699...it proves to be quite a different picture than what the author is trying to convey.

"Meaning of Khalsa - Kh stood for oneself and God. L stands asking God, what do you want with me ? Here am I. The reply of the devotee or Singh was Lord give us freedom and sovereignty. S stands for Lord or master. A stands for azadi, freedom. H stands for a legendary bird Huma."

That is new. Khalsa is given two meanings: Khalis, meaning pure. The Persian word of Khalsa means the Guru's property...hence Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh. The Khalsa is the Guru's own. The meaning above is a nice invention...but nevertheless wrong.

"These five were designated as the Beloved Ones and termed Khalsa. They would, ironically been called Hindus today."

They followed none of the Hindu Code. They ate with all "castes" together in one line. Rather than calling a Brahmin their Guru, they deemed the Guru Granth Sahib as the Guru. None of the meaningless ritualism of Hinduism were maintained by them...what makes them Hindu?

" Long hair and turbans were supposed to protect their faces and heads from sword cuts and lathi blows. The Kada was a reminder that a Sikh spirit was strong and unbending. The Kacha was more suitable for fighting the Mughals than the Dhotis and loose trousers of Muslims."

Long hair and turban have much deeper meaning than utalitarian and warfare purposes...the author should familiarize himself with his own Vedantic history and philosophy for the significance of the hair and the turban.

"He calmly walked into it and that was the end of an illustrious man who along with Shivaji valiantly fought against the Mughals."

Sorry, according to Sikh history, Guru Sahib appointed the Guru Granth Sahib the Guru by circling the Guru Granth Sahib, presenting it with a coconut and five paise and bowing. Self immoliation was not mentioned.

"GN's was opposed the caste system but it was so mild that it never attracted any opposition from the other caste. Probably they agreed with him."

The Hindu ministers of the Mughal court would repeatedly petition the Emperor to stop the Gurus, as they were preaching teachings that were against the Hindu way (anti-caste, anti-ritualism, anti-polytheism). The venom against the Guru's teachings was great in the Brahmins and court advisors of the time, seeking to profit from their Hindu populace's subjugation.

"GN's denouncement fasts, penances, piligrames implied attack on perversions and not on the basic tenets of Hinduism. Fasts were only a means to an end and not an end to themselves."

Read the Vedas...they read like a text of rituals. Some Granths propagated the fasts and rituals as the end themself. The above conclusion is incorrect.

"GN never depreciated the Vedas. He criticized the blind and mechanical reading of these texts without realizing the God through them."

Guru Sahiban never stated that the Almighty can be realized by reading the Vedas. The Vedas were never called false or wrong...but Guru Sahib has recorded in Gurbani that the Vedas will not give you salvation.

"Even the Sacred Thread was not wholly condemned. He denounced the ignorance of the implications of its use."

Asa Di Vaar shows why the Jeneo was useless. Its use was never condemned, but Guru Sahib showed the utter uselessness that the Jeneo would be to one's spirituality.

"GN suggested no further change in the civil institution of Hinduism."

No casteism, equality for women, one Almighty God, devotional worship of the Almighty as the only means of salvation, pious householder lifestyle as superior...all against the concepts of Hindusim. No change? Quite the opposite.

"GN started a reformist movement and not a separate religion. Muslim oppression and the Bhakti Movement were responsible for the birth and growth of Sikhism."

The above counter-points say something different.

"The roots of Sikhism lie deep in the Bhakti form of Hinduism and Vedanta. GN picked up some of its salient features - belief in one God who is omnipresent, unity of mankind, emphasis of work as a moral obligation, the gentle way of Sahaj to approach God while fulfilling domestic obligations etc."

One should read some of the Vedanta before making statements that are completely false.

"While the Adi-first Granth is essentially a distillation of Vedanta in Punjabi, the last Dasam- tenth is a compilation of tales of valor of Hindu goddesses. Of the 15028 names of Gods that appear in the Adi Granth, Hari occurs over 8,000 times, Ram 2533 times followed by Prabhu, Gopal, Govind and other Hindu names for the divine. The popular Sikh coinage Wah Guru appears only 16 times."

Again, read Vedanta. The author seems very unfamiliar with Vedanta. Please, do read your own Granths before tou write about other religions. The ideas being presented by the author exhibit complete ignorance of Vedanta. And per using "Hindu" names in Guru Granth Sahib...when speaking to a predominant Hindu country, would I bring up names like Francis of Asisi, Moses, King David? No...gotta speak in reference to what the population is familiar with. Would I speak Latin in India to propagate a faith? No, you would use the local language.

"Till some time ago Punjabis were divided into Monas and Sardars. Using todays connotation they are Hindus and Sikhs. Families in Punjab normally dedicated the first son to the army, thus he became a sardar while the others became monas. Thanks to Guru Gobind Singh the Turban came to be associated with valor, someone who would not tolerate oppression. Hence, the first son wore a turban symbolizing valor."

Mughal chroniclers differentiated between Sikhs and Hindus. So the separate identity is not some recent invention (refer to Kazi Nur Mohammed in Jangnama). Hindus did indeed give their sons to the Khalsa Panth in a self-preservation act...this is true. However, The turban was associated with valor and honor long before Guru Sahib...it was considered so even in ancient Babylon, Egypt, Israel, Saudi Arabia, India and other countries. The Mughals, recognizing the symbolism of the turban, banned it along with other signs of royalty, such as horses and arms.

"Some friends have shed their Khatri ( sub-caste in Punjab) surnames and made Singh their surname or Singh has become the middle name to indicate that they Sikhs. I had a colleague, a sardar, who signed as Manvinder Singh Chaddha on Interoffice memos and as Manvinder Chaddha on the company cheques. Since he wore a turban he added the name Singh to prove that he was a Sikh. Singh means devotee and probably was a middle name with all people who belonged to the warrior class. There are Singhs all over North India. Raja Man Singh was one of Akbar's trusted lieutenants, Rana Pratap Singh of Chittorgarh, Jaswant Singh ( foreign minister ) is a Rajput, Mulayam Singh Yadav, the backward caste leader of U.P, Dr Karan Singh - Maharaja of Kashmir and Digvijay Singh, CM of M.P. Each one of them has the word Singh as the middle or surname yet none of them is a follower of Khalsa."

Sikhs attaching their caste names is NOT a correct practice. The point of others of having a last name Singh begs the question...so what?

"When GN visited Sindh, taken in by his spirit of love and affection for the oppressed, they decided to become his followers."

And...?

"Master Tara Singh, leading lights during the independence movement , was one of the founder members of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad."

No comment...except that Master Sahib did not have much forsight.

Various quotes from various Vedas: The Vedas are rituals and mantras that a Brahmin recites to ward off spirits, get something from dieties, etc for his clientile. There are literally passages of mantras devoted to curing dropsy, snake venom, bad vision. It is a magic mantra guide to Brahmins. One who reads the Vedas and contrasts them to the Guru Granth Sahib will find a HUGE difference in the intent, direction and objective of the texts. The readers may decide for themselves.

The primary defense of such compositions is ignorance...ignorance about what "Vedanta" really is and what Sikhism actually says. Such articles prey on those who do have have a very good foundation on what religions are actually saying. Vedanta refers to a group of philosophy that Brahmins have been successful as suffocating under the title of Hinduism. In fact, the Vedas, Upanishads, Simritis, Shastars read differently from each other. Therefore, the glue that holds "Vedanta" together is actually Brahminism, as the only common thread to these texts (and who knows what was added later on or modified...the Vedas are reported to have been passed down orally until someone actually wrote them down) is a Brahmin sitting atop the structure controlling all the "lower castes". Sikhism presents a very big problem via the Guru Granth Sahib, as it absolutely thrashes Brahmins and useless practices that are inherent in Vedantic religions. Reality shows that every Indian village has its own local diety that the townspeople worship (Gujarat has Krishna, the south has Shiva, etc), but the unifying factor is the Brahmin that conducts the rituals. However, when one reads the Granths, they all present starkly different ideas and opinions...sometimes even taking shots at each other (as the Upanishads example above).

Sikhism's very saving grace is the Guru Granth Sahib and the Gurus' foresight in appointing it the Guru of the Panth. Had it not been for the Shabad Guru, Sikhism may have long ago become another forgotten footnote in history, warped and mutated far from its origional form. But the written Word has proven its superiority in endurance. Regardless of all such essays written such as this one by Mr. Nayyar, the Guru Granth Sahib stands as the touchstone of reality...and shatters these bogus conclusions with authority.

[H4RPAL]

Excellent observations ms514. Please everyone take the time to read them (that is the observations, and not the actual article)- they are long, but it's worth it.

<_< :wub:

[Jaspaul Singh]

Wow..

This topic ALWAYS heats me up cuz i hate it when people go around and keep saying that SIKHS ARE HINDUS... i dont wanna believe it. ARRGGGG

MS514 Singh made all the valid points. There are soo many wrong points that person declared in that essay, eventhroughout history, i dont have time to go through it now but again i would say read MS514 SInghs posts.. this singh rapped it up pretty nice.

Guru Nanak may not have created a new religion, BUT GURU GOBIND SINGH IS GURU NANAK DEV JI!!!!!! Just go by that and you will urself find your answer and can tell others off. People are trying to confuse us to make us believe that our religion has no meaning and that we are just part of another.. pleasedont believe that as our father has given us such a strong belief to go by... SIKHIII

bhul chuk maph!

[smartsingh24]

I glanced at it here and there, and I got a general idea. This guy is an <banned word filter activated>. And I agree with ms514 and mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan. The major thing I have a problem with, is that it humanizes guru ji in every other thing. They may have been in human form, but they were far from being anywhere close to being a normal human being. Someone could argue that they were humans, and they were in the strictest sense, but more than that, they were free of ridiculous emotions, for example, like getting "fired up". Don't pay attention to the article, it's just something to get people <Edited> off and get into an argument. There's better ways to spend time, than reading RSS crap like this.

[Mahavir]

Wow ms514, that was one of the most intelligent and thought out responses I've read in these forums.

It's so important that we actually know what Vedanta really means. Most of these writers like Nayyar throw this word around and fool ordinary Sikhs.

[Bijla Singh]

ms514 ji, your response is excellent. however, I do have something for you to read. I received this in an email from a gursikh I know. I do not have this book so can't really say how much of it is true. maybe you can shed some light on it.

Waheguruji ka Khalsa Waheguruji ki Fateh

Guru peeareo,

Here is a write-up based on the ' Sri Guru Dashmesh Prakash' of Giani Kartar Singh Kalaswalia on the subject of the origin of 'Khalsa'.You are bound to be awestruck by its depth. The very basis of Sikhi is freedom (so many facets to this one)from Guru Nanak Dev Sahib jee through Guru Gobind Sahib jee and is deeply intertwined into the Sikh psyche.The Akal Purakh via Guru Gobind Singh among his countless gifts, sealed it for all time in the creation of the Khalsa and the permanent Guruship of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj.

"According to Giani Kartar Singh Kaliswalia in Sri Guru Dashmesh Prakash page 106, Gurujee sent from Paonta five Sikhs to Kashi to study Sanskrit. He built five forts in Anandpur. He selected five beloved ones at Anadpur. He read five banees while preparing Amrit. He administered to each of them five palmfuls of amrit or holy water.

With a view of giving the Singhs an potimistic view of life in the midst of the tirals and tribulations which lay ahead of them, the Guru gave them a unique form of salutation:

Wahe Guru ji ka Khalsa, Wahe Guru ji ki Fatah

The Khalsa is Thine, O lord! So does the Victory belong to You!

Each half of this salutation again consists of five words. By this mode of salutation a strong link was established between the Khalsa and Victory, these two being the offspring of the Lord.

Guru Gobind Singh was in search of a word which could have the sanctity of five and the presence of God. Persian was the language of the elite and the Guru himself was a great scholar of Persian language and literature. He adopted the word Khalsa for his Singhs because it fulfilled bothe the conditions in the most appropriate manner. Besides this word had already been used by Guru Hargobind for his Sikhs. In Persian script Khalsa consists of five letters:

1) Khe or Kh stands for Khud or oneself

2) Alif or A stands for Akal Purakh of God

3) Lam or L signifies Labhaik. The News Royal Persian-English Dictionary by S. C. Paul, 1925 edition, Allahbad, p. 357, gives its meaning as follows;"What do you want with me? Here I am. What would you have?"

4)Swad or S alludes to Sahib or Lord or master.

5) It ends with A or H. Alif or A points to Azadi or freedom. If written with a he or H as it is generally the case, it refers to huma, a legendary bird. Every head it overshadows, in time wears a crown.

The word Khalsa, therefore, has the sacredness of the number five as well as the presence of God with his Singhs both engaged in a pleasant conversation. God himself asks the Singhs:

"What do you want from me? Here I am. What would you have?" The Singhs reply: "Lord give us liberty and sovereingty." "

Akal Purakh is open-ended, no beginning or no end. There is no way to fathom the depths of the implications of His ways.

Waheguruji ka Khalsa Waheguruji ki Fateh

[Mehtab Singh]

very well said ms514 veerjee...its sad that no matter how hard u try to convince them, most sikhs believe that following few or more hindu practices is fine...what pisses me off the most is "if we can go to the gurdwara why cant u go to temple?"!!

i got nothing against any temple...but YOU are coming to the gurdwara coz YOU expect something...i m already getting all i want from my Guru so WHY should i go elsewhere!! if YOU think that you are getting everything from your god(s)/goddess(es), then its upto YOU if u wanna come to the Gurdwara or not!!

that shud make a befitting response