guru gobind singh vs shivaji

[curious_man]

WJKK

WJKF

i was debating with some guy on a forum....and he said shivaji and marathas were better than sikhs....i wont be giving that post cuz he said a lot against the sikhs and really beleived that marathas were grrt.....

i respect marathas but when compared to kalgidhar walay...they stand no where ...

he said like guru ji never had a kingdom...he fought with bahadur shah zafar..even when mughals did so much bad...marathas keep fighting with brits..but ranjit singh just formed truce...

like he wrote so much ...i dont even wanna post

all i need is some good answer to bash him up and infuse some knowledge..

and close the topic!!

[`KuMi´]

My Father IS the Best To There End OF

plus he is fit buh das anuva story

nuff luv

[curious_man]

haah...thx

but i need some points

[Mahavir]

The Khalsa was not created to be just a military force, not at all.

Guru ji was not trying to create the worlds most powerful army, or to conquer lands, that’s not the Dharam of the Khalsa.

In terms of power and might, the Mughal Empire was far stronger than the Khalsa. The Khalsa never numbered beyond a few thousand, and they never had the great resources that state armies had. The Khalsa defended itself using the weapons produced from hardworking Sikhs who contributed them as part of their daswand.

I’m sure the Marathas conquered more territory, had a bigger army, had more military feats than the Khalsa.

But no army in this world, ever was nor ever will, match the Saintliness, courage, bravery of the Khalsa.

The khalsa didn’t conquer land, it only defended itself. Maharaja Ranjit Singh’s army was not the Khalsa army, it was just an ordinary army that had Sikh soldiers. He was no different than all the other kings of the world. He might have been a good king, but his army was certainly not the “khalsa army”.Khalsa is only under Akal Purakh, and it does not spend it’s time conquering the lands of others. It only defends the land it resides on, and it protects dharma and uphold righteousness. No other army in the world can match the Khalsa in terms of its virtues. The virtues of the Khalsa are beyond any army of the world. In terms of just virtues, the Khalsa is more powerful than the US Army. But in terms of weapons, number of forces, resources, of course the Khalsa can’t match it.

One Khalsa can take on 150,000.…no other army has a soldier that can do this. The khalsa has conquered the mind…which no other army can accomplish.

So my suggestion would be to not compare the khalsa to worldly armies…cause the worldly armies only count the amount of forces and amount of land you conquer. Guru Gobind Singh ji never conquered any land, he only taught the Khalsa to defend itself and anyone who comes seeking protection from the khalsa.

[naam_jap]

curious man : You will never be able to convince someone of something which they so strongly believe in(even if it is wrong), this is because it is deep rooted in their ego, never offer advice for where it is not needed. They will fight, complain, and so on. Its like those hindus who always say their religion is mother of all. they seek gratification for the ego, for they can never be wrong! The Khalsa will protect the maratha even if they were under trouble, this is nature of the Khalsa.

Khalsa doesnt need to boost its glory, Khalsa is humble, for Khalsa was one with the entire creation.

Just tell him that you have your own beliefs, and he has his own and that sikhs have no disgust against them, the way they might have towards the khalsa.

[H4RPAL]

WJKK

WJKF

i was debating with some guy on a forum....and he said shivaji and marathas were better than sikhs....i wont be giving that post cuz he said a lot against the sikhs and really beleived that marathas were grrt.....

i respect marathas but when compared to kalgidhar walay...they stand no where ...

he said like guru ji never had a kingdom...he fought with bahadur shah zafar..even when mughals did so much bad...marathas keep fighting with brits..but ranjit singh just formed truce...

like he wrote so much ...i dont even wanna post

all i need is some good answer to bash him up and infuse some knowledge..

and close the topic!!

92885[/snapback]

Veer Ji, in response to your post, I have recieved the following information:

It was stated on the forum that Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji fought with Bahadur Shah Zafar. This statment is in actual fact incorrect. Guru Ji fought with Bahadur Shah (first), and not Bahadur Shah Zafar who was a different person.

Now, onto the issue of why Siks are 'better' than Marathas. While Marathas were simply fighting to get a kingdom, the Sikhs were fighting for their 'Dharma,' a far more noble cause.

Now, lets look at the outcomes. Marathas fought for a kingdom, but do they have it now? The answer is no, as there is no such 'Hindavi' kingdom they can call their own. Now onto the Sikhs who fought for 'dharma'- do they still have it? of course they do! In this way, it is clear that the Sikhs were and continue to be better.

Let us now move to the issue of Shiva Ji, who was imprisoned by Aurangzeb, but then escaped by using a great trick. Contrast this with the Gurus, who used no such tricks to escape, but instead chose to die for their 'Dharma' rather than fight on for a kingdom.

Returning to the issue of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji helping Bahadur Shah (first) [ie not Bahadur Shah Zafar]. This is certainly not a negative point but rather a positive. Bahadur Shah was NEVER an enemy to Guru Ji, as it was his father who had commited foul acts towards both Sikhs and Gurus. Showing his true warrior spirit, Guru Ji did not let the atrocities commited by Aurengzeb cloud his judgement of Bahadur Shah, as a true warrior does not take revenge from his enemy's son or any other relative for that matter.

Finally, let us again visit the issue of Shiva Ji, who was actually ready to work under Aurangzeb. However, Aurangzeb did not allow Shiva Ji to work as his Army Officer, and it was only upon this that he fought against Aurangzeb. Shiva Ji was ready to work as even 'panj hazaari' of Aurangzeb.

Taking these facts into account, it is clear that history paints a picture of the superiority of the Sikhs, and any distortion such as that presented is absolutely baseless.

[Bijla Singh]

This article should help you. http://khalsaalliance.org/rss/sggsjdstmpntk_0304.pdf

If you have a country, your version of history is considered correct because your voice is recognized on political level. Historians listen to you. Misconceptions like "Sikhs are Hindus/Muslims" will not go away until Sikhs have a homeland. Until then, Kirpan and Turban issues will never be solved and Sikhs will have to separate one part (Kirpan) of their body when travelling by air. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[curious_man]

thx for the replies.....

i wrote to him whtevr input i got from u all....

haah..at the end he was still not convinced....he said guru ji wasn't even able to defeat a local governor wazir khan...he wasn't able to avenge the death of his father...how wud he be able to fight with empror...shivaji fought directly..to free hindutva..

and i was like :wub: @

so thats it i thought .... "moorkh naal na uljhaiye"

<_< thx again....i m pretty sure that these marathas were defeated by abdali but this abdali used to be get a$$ kicked by the sikhs of those times....though i didnt tell him(otherwise i wud have read more beadbi of guruji)!!!

[kurtas]

The marathas were great warriors. Mahadji Scindhia was a great leader. Other noted great Maratha include Malhar Rao Holkar who founded the Indore kingdom.

However they also joined up with the mughals. They took Shah Alam II from British protection and placed him on the Delhi throne so they worked under the Moghul empire.

When the ruler of Indore, Holkar fled to Punjab and sought the help of Maharaja Rhunjeet Singh to form an alliance against the British it is said that Maharaja Rhunjeet Singh was ready to take on the British but rejected the alliance because he found out that Holkar was secretly negotiating with the British at the same time.

Also the Marathas joined hands with the British against Tippu Sultan.

They were defeated by Ahmad Shah Abdali despite having total numerical supremacy over the afghans. The maratha peshwa sent a large army under the control of Sadashiv Bhau who it turns out had the military planning skills of a baby. He took a large retinue of maratha women/family despite being advised against this by many of the other leading martha military leaders. Sadashiv Bhau also alienated the Jat chief of Bharatpur before the battle at panipat thus losing a key member of the anti abdali alliance.

So the history of the marthas is not as great as this person makes out.

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

So Shivaji took control of armies and defeated many in battle. One day, it became ovbious that Shivaji should be King. He got all ready to be crowned, when the Brahmins became a pain the the royal booty. They were like "Yo, you ain't no Kshytria...you cannot be King". So Shivaji was like "Yo G, whas your problem. Tell me how to become the Mac Daddy of Maharastra". Brahmin was like "Yo, you gotta lay out the spread, son. Feed my boys, the Brahmins foods of 36 different types and we see what we can do". Shivaji was like "Aight". So he laid out a gigantic feast, the Brahmins pigged out and all the sudden, they started to say how the grandfather on the mothers side was a great Ksyhtria and how he descended from a royal family. Thus, having bribed the Brahmins, Shivaji became a King. So Shivaji was indeed a great warrior that deserves a lot of respect. However, he was not able to crawl out of the Brahmin chokehold that had gripped society.

(I in silly mood)...

Guru Sahib not only liberated the Indian subcontinent from the Mughals, but he also started the movement to liberate the minds of the people out of the control of the Brahmins, a deed far more important. Remember, what the Brahmin said went. They had sold out their entire "people" just so they could retain their lives and make money off the people's misery. Guru Sahib struck at the heart of this and declared Brahmins useless, beginning a very deep revolution.