degradation of kirtan

[Guest A Singh.]

I am glad you understand that through love of Guru one can cry and laugh. Ideally this should be kept to oneself but as I have described this is not always possible.

The Gurbani quoted first describes the Manmukhs who make a great show. They appear honorable outwardly but inwardly have nothing. Through outward actions, without Pyaar they recieve nothing.

Then Guru Ji explains the state of a Gurmukh. They do not appear physically rich but inwardly they are more wealthy than any other (they have accumulated the true Wealth of His Naam). Guru Ji clearly explains one of the attributes of the Gurmukhs, rather than Manmukhs, is that they laugh and cry.

Whilst others laugh and cry through worldly reasons (passing away of loved ones, accumulation of material wealth or emotional bondage) the Gurmukh cries out of Bairaag to meet his Guru and laughs when contemplating the Eternal Greatness of the Guru. I have seen Keertanees crying on stage through love, it is possible to laugh also.

I understand your concept of the "court" and "royalty". For me the true servant and court attendant is not the one who dresses most magnificently and gives the most money in the Golak. It is the humble one, dressed simply (as the Shabad has mentioned) who is totally focussed on the Guru's name.

The highly talented Raagi may have the most beautiful voice but if his or her mind is not concentrated on the Shabad or he even has bad thoughts in Guru's Darbar he is the worst of the worst.

The Gurmukh, appearing to be inappropriate for the court with his poor clothes or his crying and laughing, to me is creating the True Darbar; he appears to be sitting in the Sangat yet in reality his head is firmly infront of Guru Ji at His Charan. Perhaps I am not intellectual enough to see your train of thought but for me this is the true way to show Satkaar for Maharaj, regardless of how "improper" or "uncourtly" his Keertan may sound.

Thats all I wanted to say on this subject.

[Guest Akaal108]

Let me get this straight-

Some people do NOT have any problem distortation of word- Vahiguroo/guroo as grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgrrrrrrrrrrurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgrrrrrrrrggrrrrrrrrrrrrrguuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

YET they have problem with kirtan sung in dharna started by Baba Attar SIngh Ji Maustanwaley as being kachi bani ..even though it's not...

LOL...THIS IS CLASS HYPROCRISY TO THE MAX

[00gurpreet_singh00]

if distortion of words in bani bug you soo much, only listen to people doing kirtan who have taken santhia. I can gaurantee you that bhai avtar singh and bhai balbir singh and other raagis are not reading bani shudh when they do kirtan

[Sony]

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh.....

jio, just one thing I have to say, if it ever came to the point that it is only raag that is sung, my heart will cry with pain.

I understand that raag is important, but isnt it true that guru jis bani should be sung ... his words should be understood, they should be said from the heart.... I would like the oppurtunity to sit in front of my guru ji with sangat and sing kirtan.... I dont have the bhudhi to do raag... i tried at one time but was unable to learn it properly... it was with sangat... regular people.... who taught me how to do kirtan.. they sang it from their heart... and tried to teach me the words to sing from my heart... i appreciate the fact that the true way to do kirtan is in raag.. but I dont think there is something wrong when the sangat gets togoether to sing guru ji's words ... from their hearts....

as for simran... simran is very important... it might be just recently that it is incorporated in sangat... but I doubt that it just started now.. simran has been around for thousands and thousands of years... the repetition of naam, before it was done by an individual by themselves. now its done in sangat... the love u feel when simran is done... man... its amazing...

that link of that person doing kirtan, i understand that it sounds disrespectful. and at first i would say that too that this should not be done like this... simran should be done with sehaj.. it is to help us control our bodies and minds.... but who are we to judge this person.... if hes wrong guru ji will himself stop him, if this was at the time of one of our first ten guru's and they found something wrong they would have stopped it, today we still have our maharaj there.. he will stop this if he does not like it.....

overall i think most people who do kirtan, not in raag, understand that the way they are doing kirtan may not be the way that guru ji said it, but they are his words... and they sing from the heart... dont take that away from people....

bhul chuk maaf

[navdeep kaur]

i love kirtan no matter how it is done...i like AKJ kirtan alot....but i have to say...soemtimes it gets too much josh and it is hard to hear what they're saying

[shamsher]

Maharaj has been very clear about how kirtan should be played. To disrepespect this is simply an act of treason against Maharaj and there is no discussion about that. Some people like to follow the trends introduced by some personalities at the beginning of 20th century. As a Sikh it is very clear to me that these people are nothing compared to Maharaj.It's Him and only Him that I should follow. The Divine Names should be repeated with love, tenderness and sweetness, something any real sant will tell you.The Divine Names should never be barked or groaned like these so-called "mahapurush": a loving wife (the suhagani of gurbani) does not bark at her husband.

In any case in this world people practise the religion they deserve: some chose to follow the injunctions of their Guru and sing his praises with dedication other chose to disobey their Guru whilst pretending to be his true followers and bark his names as if they could force Divine Grace...

As Maharaj says: countless are those who deny the gifts Akal Purakh has given them (Many negate after what they receive). Maharaj has given us this precious rag kirtan for our spiritual uplifment but countless are those who chose to go back to pre-history and practise shamanism in the form of Sikhi.

May their hearts realise their arrogant treason, repent and realise how precious this gift of Maharaj is...

[smartsingh24]

Then I shall be the most treasonous of all. Even if my guru or god were to forsake me and my methods, I would still continue my treahorous ways.

[navdeep kaur]

Does this mean that the greatest of Gursikhs committed treason?

[shamsher]

smartsingh24 wrote:

Then I shall be the most treasonous of all. Even if my guru or god were to forsake me and my methods, I would still continue my treahorous ways.

There is a word for the way of those who willingly indulge in treason: Satanism! :e:

[smartsingh24]

If that is what you call those with a love of god greater than the threat of hell, then that is what i will be.