degradation of kirtan

[Guest Akaal108]

Ok that's all i needed to know.

Thanks

[akjforever]

How Gurmanter is done is all up to the kirtanee and his/her avastaa. NO ONE can say this doesn't sound right or why are they saying VAHEGURU a certain way. As anyone knows that those that have high avastaa will do things that may seem odd to everyday manmukhs like us. We have NO RIGHT to judge or question others on how they are doing something because we have ZERO bhagtee/kamaee. Kirtan should be done in a way that it emotionally attaches you to the shabad and Gurmanter. Bhai Randheer Singh Ji was known for creating tunes that shot the heart with pangs of love from the Shabad that was sung. It is known that he would at times sing the same shabad for 5 hours with NO ONE getting up to leave. Music in kirtan is a vehicle in which we receive Gurbani and we sing it and get the meaning and cherish the meaning in our hearts. If that kirtan style that does it for us is AKJ style then go for that, its my personal fav, if you like raagi style kirtan, go for that. But don't be criticizing people for doing different styles when we are in no position to do so.

Bul Chuk Maaf

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[smartsingh24]

How Gurmanter is done is all up to the kirtanee and his/her avastaa.  NO ONE can say this doesn't sound right or why are they saying VAHEGURU a certain way.  As anyone knows that those that have high avastaa will do things that may seem odd to everyday manmukhs like us.  We have NO RIGHT to judge or question others on how they are doing something because we have ZERO bhagtee/kamaee.  Kirtan should be done in a way that it emotionally attaches you to the shabad and Gurmanter.  Bhai Randheer Singh Ji was known for creating tunes that shot the heart with pangs of love from the Shabad that was sung.  It is known that he would at times sing the same shabad for 5 hours with NO ONE getting up to leave.  Music in kirtan is a vehicle in which we receive Gurbani and we sing it and get the meaning and cherish the meaning in our hearts.  If that kirtan style that does it for us is AKJ style then go for that, its my personal fav, if you like raagi style kirtan, go for that.  But don't be criticizing people for doing different styles when we are in no position to do so. 

Bul Chuk Maaf

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

101821[/snapback]

DING DING DING DING DING DING

WE HAVE A WINNER

Did u catch what he said? No? Maybe you should read it again

If that kirtan style that does it for us is AKJ style then go for that, its my personal fav, if you like raagi style kirtan, go for that.

Don't even try to argue that now. That's all that needed to be said.

[Guest A Singh.]

A small clarification is needed; no one goes "Bruuuuah" in Keertan. When some Gurmukhs are engrossed in the simran, they are repeating it Swas Swas.

NB. Bhai Randhir Singh was not the only Gursikh to advocate this technique of Simran. Sant Baba Attar Singh was another, and in Sant Baba Teja Singhs book not only is the technique mentioned but also related to some very old historical texts.

In Sau Sakhi (some consider this as Gurbani also) Guru Gobind Singh is describing to Mata Jeeto Ji how to do Simran and yes the technique described is the one propogated by Bhai Randhir Singh amongst other Saints of the 20th century (I think even Sant Baba Isher Singh has mentioned it in Katha?). Bhai Mani Singh in Bhagat Ratnavali also describes the same method when referencing Bhai Gurdas's Vars. And finally even in Prem Surag Granth a reference is made to this "Swas Swas" simran.

Whilst doing Swas Swas simran loud in Keertan (when traditionally it has been done quietly and slowly) may sound odd to many the vidhi itself which the Singhs should not be made fun of or attacked.

If someone does Simran with their breath, and only sound of breath is heard, does this mean the Gurmantar being distorted into breathing? The Gurmantar is the most powerful thing in the universe, it can transcend audible sound because to the person Japping Naam the Sound of Vahe-Guroo is resounding within them, from navel to dasam duar, with utmost clarity.

For those who are unaware of the aforemented technique for Japping Naam, it may (and I am not suprised if it did) cause them to be distracted. For anyone else I cannot see a problem.

[Akaali]

gurrrrruuuuuu, gurrrrrrrru, vaheguruuuu, gurrrrrrruuuuuu :nihungsmile:

gurU gurU jip mIq hmwry ]

guroo guroo jap meeth hamaarae ||

guru guru jpI gurU guru iDAweI ]

gur gur japee guroo gur dhhiaaee ||

gurU gurU guru kir mn mor ]

guroo guroo gur kar man mor ||

gurU guru gurU guru gurU jpu pRwnIAhu ]

guroo gur guroo gur guroo jap praaneeahu ||

Chant Guru, Guru, Guru, Guru, Guru, O mortal beings.

[singh_khalsa]

by the way gurrrrrrru, is guru! just the r is vibrating, how does this distort waheguru?

Please dont say bhai randhir singh didnt do simran at raensbhais when he did!

[singh_khalsa]

Akal 108 you have basically called akj a group of evil sprits, read your first post. Waheguru waheguru! how many gursikhs have you slandered? Many great gursikhs were and are involved in akj style kirtan:

bhai randhir singh jee

bhai jeevan singh jee

master niranjan singh jee

joginder singh jee

Many others

Do ardaas and ask for forgiveness, my advice, up to you to listen to my advice.

[jss]

i would just like to comment on one point raised...

the original poster starts his thread by talking about the way to act in a "soveirgns' court...a king's court... a royal court..

while i in no way would ever imagine that our guru ji is not king of kings....i think that maybe we should examine this a bit closer...

i mean..yes..guru ji is the king of kings...

and yes..there should be some definite ways of giving that respect to guru ji...

HOWEVER,

the original poster has in a way brought down guru ji from the KING of KINGS...to simply a king by comparing the etiquette in a regular king's court to the etiquiette in guru ji's court...

we should not forget that along with being the king of kings, guru ji is our father, our mother, our best friend....how many kings can claim to be all that?

so if my king is also my mother, my father, and my best friend...am i necessarily bound to observe strict decorum at all times?...if i suddenly feel immense amounts of love for my king, father, mother, best friend...do i necessarily have to sit their all composed and say "i love you'....or would it not be perfectly acceptable to yell "waheguru waheguru waheguru" from my heart, from every pore of my being??? really...you think guru ji is gonna classify that as PAAP??

i just wanted to add that...cuz as good as it is to consider guru ji as kings of all kings, lets not forget that he is our mother, father, best friend...all of them ...

me personally, i have a heard time believe that in guru ji's court, if some person walked in singing guru ji's pavitar bani in the only tune he knew..or "out of tune" guru ji would have him barred or stopped....i picture guru ji having the biggest smile on his face, taking that sikh into his loving arms and giving him a big hug and showering that sikh with love....

would he then get him raag lessons? (definite possibility...hehe)

i'm not trying to undermine the importance of raag..i don't think anyone is...

at the same time...it's important to realize that we should not be such sticklers on this issue...especially if people are doing simran, kirtan, with full concentration on the bani...full concentration on guru ji...with love, with sharda, with innocence...

sant attar singh ji is famous for saying this line:

guru dhay gun gaaoo, bhavaay katayangudaaoo

[preetsingh]

Waheguru Ji ka khalsa

Waheguru Ji ki fateh

I think this is a good discussion, believe it or not. Really informative.

And you guys have had a lot of different views and alot to say... all of which I think is really interesting.

But I want to know what my Guru Ji has to say about this topic, specifically about simran, in this shabad:

har ka bilovunah bilovo meray bhaee ||

sehaj bilovo jasay tuth na jaaee ||

Can we please do veechar on this bachan by Bhagat Kabeer Ji?

Specifically on the metaphor used in the second line:

SEHAJ BILOVO JASAY TUTH NA JAAEE.

We all understand the literal meaning of this, and have heard it many times in keertan and kathaa. Its quite deep, and the metaphor is of a traditional means of churning butter by hand. If needed, please ask someone more knowledgeable who knows exactly what this process of churning butter was, to completely understand what Bhagat Kabeer Ji is saying here. (That's what I had to do, and I'm still only BEGINNING to understand)

I don't know if it was brought up earlier in this thread; I couldn't find it. I believe its important to do veechar on this, and would really like to hear your thoughts on this. Personally, I think its completely relevant to this discussion.

bhul chuk maaf.

Waheguru Ji ka khalsa

Waheguru Ji ki fateh

[Guest Akaal108]

Akal 108 you have basically called akj a group of evil sprits, read your first post. Waheguru waheguru! how many gursikhs have you slandered? Many great gursikhs were and are involved in akj style kirtan:

bhai randhir singh jee

bhai jeevan singh jee

master niranjan singh jee

joginder singh jee

Many others

Do ardaas and ask for forgiveness, my advice, up to you to listen to my advice.

101930[/snapback]

My first reply was especially referred towards 2nd link - drawof provided...

i don't know if you listen to it or not..it's scary...here is the rhythm used in that file after fwd- 1 minute and 5 seconds:

first starts with

vahigurooooo for few seconds that's fine...but then that person makes an twisted turn- hurraaaaahaaaaahhhhavh haa haa brauhhhhhhh grrrrrrrrrrrrr at the back ground for 1 minute- it's still simran going - vahiguroo vahiguroo (again that is fine) it just that person making scaring noises which is scary.......

so STOP patronising ME !!!!

I haven't done any nindya... I said whatever i heard from that clip....i m not used to this.. nor i want to get use to it...it's not for me...if this is simran of vahiguroo for you guys..CHEERS.

not for rest of Sikh Panth-

Real simran starts when your surat /mind starts doing simran inside at trikurtiiiii then above stage is listening dhuni leading to final stage Nirvakalap Samadhi... !!!!!!!!!

somebody brought up a point of love...anything goes in love for guru ji...so this type is acceptable..

ok i wonder if your answer will be same...if a black person who takes amrit dhari comes up to the stage- and starts doing vahiguroo Jap in rap with his hands moving all the time !!!!!!!!!!!!!