Declaration Of Khalistan

[sikh supreme]

wjkk

wjkf

        i have asked this question several times on diffrent forums but no answer is given to me.do we have the majority to form khalistan.the answer is no

the ratio in punjab is 60% sikhs and 40% hindus.from that 60 % how many are nirankaris

,radhaswamis ,namdharis we don't know.moreover many sikhs have hindu mentality worshipping devi devtas.how we are going to rule khalistan like saddam

hussien.if khalistan is created the same politician will come in power again after

10 years of its creation.main point is we don't have the majority to form khalistan

true sikhs are few

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With respect, listen very carefully to your real fears as the above can't be your reasoning as it is irrational.

You are saying that because there is not a majority for something, it should not be supported or advocated for? So we can take everything that there is a majority for at this arbitrary time and it should be the way things always remain? THere is no need ever for elections, no need for advocacy, for change etc. where there is democracy currently. In essence there is no need for future democracy where there is democracy ...??

Was Guru Nanak Dev Ji a majority? Was Guru Arjan Dev Ji a majority?

Forming Khalistan is not a matter of snapping fingers to see if there is a majority. The first step to forming Khalistan is ditching our slave mentality. Most of us adopt the notions and realities that we are born into as if those realities are timeless. Our lives are specks in history. Learn to think outside of the time-tunnel and ask what sikhs who made sacrifices before the word 'India' existed would say about sikhs supporting actively or passively a state where the soil to nurture sikhi is dust and sikhi is a historical relic.

The question is not one of whether Khalistan is valid, but whether current India is valid? There are many different cultures and groups in India, if they cannot be respected by the state, whether it is for logisitical reasons or otherwise then the state should not have authority over them.

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Excellent post.... I like the points you made here "The question is not one of whether Khalistan is valid, but whether current India is valid?" and "Was Guru Nanak Dev Ji a majority? Was Guru Arjan Dev Ji a majority?" :TH:

[sikh supreme]

have asked this question several times on diffrent forums but no answer is given to me.do we have the majority to form khalistan.the answer is no

the ratio in punjab is 60% sikhs and 40% hindus.from that 60 % how many are nirankaris

,radhaswamis ,namdharis we don't know.moreover many sikhs have hindu mentality worshipping devi devtas.

Does a country depend on majority? When Israel was formed there were only few thousand Jews, a minority. Couple thousand Muslims ruled majority of hindu population for over 700 years. Sikh rule of Baba Banda Singh and Maharaja Ranjit Singh had Sikhs as a minority. A Country's success is independent of which community is the majority or minority.

how we are going to rule khalistan like saddam

hussien.

Do you really think Sikhs are like Muslim dictators? In fact, indian government is worse than saddam. just look at indian constitution and see how much power the prime minister has during the rule of emergency and not to mention 1980 National Security Act. So you need to study a little bit before making up lousy assumptions. Give me facts not assumptions.

if khalistan is created the same politician will come in power again after

10 years of its creation.

Not true. If Sikhs can fight and die for Khalistan why won't they be able to make sure that no corrupt leader is able to gain power? Have you never heard of elections? One has to be a Sikh (Amritdhari) and must have at least PhD in Law and Business and couple years of experience before he/she can run for presidency. Sikhs will overthrow the indian government along with corrupt so called 'sikh' leaders. Are you so naive to think that Sikhs will forgive people like badal and appoint him the first leader of their country? 1947 mistake will not be repeated again. When USA was fighting for independence did they ever say "british officers might take over the country so let's forget about fighting." try to think once in a while. assumptions only weaken your case.

main point is we don't have the majority to form khalistan true sikhs are few

main point: you don't have a clue about the true power of Sikhs and their capabilities to run Khalistan. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

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Another excellent post.

"main point: you don't have a clue about the true power of Sikhs and their capabilities to run Khalistan. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh"

BOLAY SOO NEHAAL

SAT SRI AKAL!!!

[headhoncho]

I think its more important to preserve the Khalsa and then fight for khalistan. There can't be a Khalistan devoid of any khalsa. The way things are going from bad to worse in Punjab. The turban will be seen only in museums in a few years time if the present trend continues.

[JSingh]

Yudh can also mean fighting five thieves but here [referring to a quote]Guru Ji means yudh as in Dharam Yudh i.e fighting for Dharma.

So I don't see the point of sitting in a bhora doing bhagtee while the panth is being attacked from all ten directions. Doing both is the way to go because it is what Sikhi teaches us. Sikhs in 18th century used to recite Dasam Bani while they were fighting.

Bhaji, we need to recognize our true enemy first. There is a saying in punjabi, "Kuttey da vairi kuttta" (Dog's enemy is Dog). Same thing is true for us Sikhs too, "Sikh da vairi Sikh" (Sikh's enemy is Sikh). We have several instances in our history where Sikhs have backstabbed their fellow Sikhs in time of crisis and War. Sikh-Anglo War II is one of the major examples. When we were defeted by British, Shah Mohammad quoted:

Shah Muhammada ik Sarkar (Maharaja Ranjit Singh) bajon,

Faujan Jit ke ant nu harian ne.

Just because of our own people.

Bhaji, I never asked anyone to sit in bhora and do bhagti. There is no doubt that Sikhs have a fighthing spirit that no one else in the world has, but it does not mean that we just pick up arms and jump in the battlefield with a sword and die. We will get nothing out of it. We have to look at an issue from each and every angle. And as far as Dasam Bani is concerned, only a few pages of Dasam Granth are said to be written by Guru Gobind Singh Ji (first 39 pages, said by Prof. Darshan Singh) and Zafarnana.

I don't see why we have to stop talking about Khalistan if we are weak in Simran.

If we are strong in Simran, we don't have to talk about Khalistan.

So when will we be capable of deserving Raaj? When we do simran and seva? QUOTE]

When you will do Simran, you will say:

rwju n cwhau mukiq n cwhau min pRIiq crn kmlwry ]

raaj n chaaho mukath n chaaho man preeth charan kamalaarae ||

I do not seek power, and I do not seek liberation. My mind is in love with Your Lotus Feet.

(SGGS 534)

Then what was wrong with Bhai Fauja Singh, Sant Jarnail Singh and many other gursikhs? They were more gursikhs than any of us.

But where is Khalistan then? These were Great Gusikhs. We should not degrade their shaheedi by likingk them with Khalistan. This is another problem we Sikhs are facing today. We think we can get Khalistan ONLY and ONLY by achieving Shaheedi. We do not think out of the box. This is called janoon. This is a political fight, dirty politics is involved, our real enemies are within us, our Sikh Political bodies and our Jathedaars of Takhats. By merely fighting in a battle and dying won't get us a darn thing.

It is not all about when we deserve it, it is about when we want to break the chains of slavery and become true Sikhs.

mÚ 4 ]

ma 4 ||

Fourth Mehl:

gur siqgur kw jo isKu AKwey su Blky auiT hir nwmu iDAwvY ]

gur sathigur kaa jo sikh akhaaeae s bhalakae out(h) har naam dhhiaavai ||

One who calls himself a Sikh of the Guru, the True Guru, shall rise in the early morning hours and meditate on the Lord's Name.

audmu kry Blky prBwqI iesnwnu kry AMimRq sir nwvY ]

oudham karae bhalakae parabhaathee eisanaan karae a(n)mrith sar naavai ||

Upon arising early in the morning, he is to bathe, and cleanse himself in the pool of nectar.

aupdyis gurU hir hir jpu jwpY siB iklivK pwp doK lih jwvY ]

oupadhaes guroo har har jap jaapai sabh kilavikh paap dhokh lehi jaavai ||

Following the Instructions of the Guru, he is to chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. All sins, misdeeds and negativity shall be erased.

iPir cVY idvsu gurbwxI gwvY bhidAw auTidAw hir nwmu iDAwvY ]

fir charrai dhivas gurabaanee gaavai behadhiaa out(h)adhiaa har naam dhhiaavai ||

Then, at the rising of the sun, he is to sing Gurbani; whether sitting down or standing up, he is to meditate on the Lord's Name.

jo swis igrwis iDAwey myrw hir hir so gurisKu gurU min BwvY ]

jo saas giraas dhhiaaeae maeraa har har so gurasikh guroo man bhaavai ||

One who meditates on my Lord, Har, Har, with every breath and every morsel of food - that GurSikh becomes pleasing to the Guru's Mind.

ijs no dieAwlu hovY myrw suAwmI iqsu gurisK gurU aupdysu suxwvY ]

jis no dhaeiaal hovai maeraa suaamee this gurasikh guroo oupadhaes sunaavai ||

That person, unto whom my Lord and Master is kind and compassionate - upon that GurSikh, the Guru's Teachings are bestowed.

(SGGS 305)

jnu nwnku DUiV mMgY iqsu gurisK kI jo Awip jpY Avrh nwmu jpwvY ]2]

jan naanak dhhoorr ma(n)gai this gurasikh kee jo aap japai avareh naam japaavai ||2||

Servant Nanak begs for the dust of the feet of that GurSikh, who himself chants the Naam, and inspires others to chant it. ||2||

I agree we have issues but why all issues have to be solved before we create Khalistan? Can you give me a name of a single country that has no issues? Shia and Sunni have huge issues but they live with each other in peace and harmony in Kuwait, UAE and some other countries. All US States have issues with each other. issues like gays, abortion and ban on drugs and guns have divided people. anti-abortion people have blasted community hospitals in this country. texas refuses to share its power grid with other states. So you see a country can survive even with issues.

The issues we are facing today are not like issues in these countries you mentioned. We have serious problems. I was talking to a person few days ago and he said that several years back Ajit newpaper in Punjab printed an ad that they want to hold a Seminar on Current Issue of Sikhs they are facing and they want essays and papers send to them from those who want to participate in this Seminar. In the papers they wanted the Issues and Solutions. Their papers will be evaluated and then ranked. This professor baught a 25 paisa post card and wrote two sentences:

Issue: Sikhs are no longer Sikhs.

Solution: Sikhs become Sikhs.

Guess what. This paper (postcard with two sentences) was ranked # 1 and this professor went to the seminar with his several Students.

Unity is important, no doubt but a country will not fall apart just because there are some issues. Why not unite physically and win our country then we can sit together and solve our religious issues.

The issue we are facing, if we do not solve them now, there is no guarantee they will be solved after Khalistan. We will become a laughing stock in the entire world, pulling each other's beards and knocking off turbans and kicking them like a soccer ball, which had happed recently during SGPC elections as some of us have seen pictures too. The truth is we do not have one issue, ett chako tan issue nikalda. ekta di tan gall hi ni rahi... We cannot even solve our Gurdwara problems, how can we sit and solve our big issues in Khalistan. People fight and kill each other in Gurdwaras, police comes in, hundreds and thousands of dollars are wasted in courts. Who is to blame for all this. The management committee members or the Sangat? I will blame the latter. Reason: postcard sent by that professor. We do not know and care what we are doing. We are all divided up. We are either followers of diffent Sants, jathebandis, or even anti-sikh sects and still go to Gurdwaras. We have common Guru, but why these differences. Do we deseve to be called Khalsa? Are we ready what we are so eager for? We always looked outside for enemies and blame them. But we actually never looked inside our own community. Our real enemies are within us, like that worm inside the wood that keeps eating it from inside and keeps making it hollow day by day, but from outside wood looks very clean and polished, but one day its collaples all of a sudden. That is whats happening to us.

12 misls had issues but they survived.

Bhaji, for how long did they last? Surviving and lasting are two different things.

Shaheedis of Bhai Anokh Singh, Bhai Suklakhan Singh and Bhai Gurdev Singh are no less than sacrifices of 18th century. They deserved Raaj more than us. We need to improve ourselves but doesn't mean we have to stop standing on truth and ignore our freedom. We can do both.

Bhaji, why we do we have to associate Great Gursikh with our purpose that we want to achieve and link their name with it. Only and only Guru Sahib knows what they deseve, not us. We can never understand the relationship between the Guru and his Khalsa Fauj. Guru di sharan naalon vadda raaj hor ki ho sakda jithey saadey shaheed Singh bhaite aa.

In my opinion we needed Raaj even in the times of Guru Nanak Dev Ji.

Bhaji, Guru Nanak Dev Ji knew more than us. We are not more intelligent to tell Guru Sahib that we needed Raaj in 1469 but you did not give us.

We have more things and more work to do rather than fighting and dying for Khalsa Raaj. Everything has a right time and we should do those things that today's time requires. Our panth is falling apart. Our generations are driffting away from Sikhi, we have been listening toooooooo many fake Sakhis in Gurdwaras for centures that do not allign with Gurbani, SGPC which did a great work when it was established about a century ago and now see what it has turned in to? We do not want a Khalistan that will work great in its initial stage and then fall apart and gets corruped like SGPC now.

i'm sorry if i have hurt anybody's feelings. i know many of the forum members are pro khalistani and i respect and love all of them cuz all of you have dard for Sikhi and want our own Sikh Raaj, but at the same time, we have many other issues which we have to give priority to, the prerequisites, like when we want to take a class, we have to complete the prerqs. We don't want to take them, but we have to cuz without them, we cannot take the class that we want to take.

forigive me if any of my words have hurt anyone

There is an interesting article online, if someone wants to read it, please click on the link below:

http://allaboutsikhs.com/articles/us/001.htm

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

Jsingh I think I understand what you are saying. Your saying we need to look for a permanent well-though-out solution rather than a hasty one. I agree that we need hard-core house-cleaning, ekta under sri nishaan sahib, ekta under SGGS Ji. When you build a house you start with the foundation, if the foundation is weak, the whole thing comes crumbling down. But one thing is clear, this house will be built one day.

[JSingh]

Jsingh I think I understand what you are saying.  Your saying we need to look for a permanent well-though-out solution rather than a hasty one.  I agree that we need hard-core house-cleaning, ekta under sri nishaan sahib, ekta under SGGS Ji.  When you build a house you start with the foundation, if the foundation is weak, the whole thing comes crumbling down.  But one thing is clear, this house will be built one day.

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Exactly. A well trained and expreienced mason will always think carfully and take each and every step to make the foundation stronger before erecting the house because he knows the consequences of weak foundation, a surprise.

Let our Guru be our Mason and we all serve as laborers.

mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan ji, that day will definitely come.

[x_suman_x]

SAY NO TO KHALISTAN JINDABAD   :TH:  :doh:

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why should we say no?????

if we do then our fellow bhajis and phenjis will be abused

our brothers will continue to suffer

if we do then that means that our shaheeds sacrifices are worthless

r u willing to see your sisters honour continue to be violated

r u willing to see ur sons and daughters massacred

the khalsa are not cowards

our gurus fought for justice and what is right and against tyrants

the khalsa will continue to do so

bhul chuk marf

gur fateh

:doh:

[Bijla Singh]

Bhaji, I never asked anyone to sit in bhora and do bhagti. There is no doubt that Sikhs have a fighthing spirit that no one else in the world has, but it does not mean that we just pick up arms and jump in the battlefield with a sword and die. We will get nothing out of it. We have to look at an issue from each and every angle. And as far as Dasam Bani is concerned, only a few pages of Dasam Granth are said to be written by Guru Gobind Singh Ji (first 39 pages, said by Prof. Darshan Singh) and Zafarnana.

My previous post made it clear what Bhagtee and Shaktee is and I gave few examples. Name of Waheguru on our lips and sword in our hand. 500 years of history shows how sikhs have fought in the battlefield. All of Dasam Granth is work of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. (Bhai Piara Singh Padam)

If we are strong in Simran, we don't have to talk about Khalistan. When you will do Simran, you will say:

rwju n cwhau mukiq n cwhau min pRIiq crn kmlwry ]

raaj n chaaho mukath n chaaho man preeth charan kamalaarae ||

I do not seek power, and I do not seek liberation. My mind is in love with Your Lotus Feet.

(SGGS 534)

typical "akali" argument of 84. try to understand the meanings first. Gurbani says that trading love of god with raj or liberation is wrong but having a country to spread the message of god is not wrong. Do you think Sant Jarnail Singh and many other shaheeds wanted political power and had no love for Guru Ji? All true shaheeds did lot of naam simran and fought for khalistan at the same time. understand the purpose of khalistan first before you make assumptions that we have no love for god or we have some political agenda. Guru Ji was strong in simran but he spoke about having a separate country. all religions flourished with countries. Guru Ji turned Sikhs into saints and soldiers. fighting for our rights, seeking justice and securing our future is all part of Khalistan.

But where is Khalistan then? These were Great Gusikhs. We should not degrade their shaheedi by likingk them with Khalistan.

you make me laugh. you reminded me of a nihung singh. he came to our house and said he was also a "desi doctor". that day my mother was little sick so he gave her some medicine. my mother had the pill in her hand and the nihung asked "feeling better?" my mother said that she hadn't taken the medicine yet. then she took the pill and as she finished drinking water he asked again "feeling better now?" i couldn't stop laughing. the doctor knows better than anyone else that any pill will take some time before the patient starts feeling better. so you are like that nihung singh. You talk about naam simran but have no idea of how Waheguru works. Sant Kartar Singh Ji once said:

r`b dI c`kI cldI qW hOlI Aw pr pINhdI bhuq brIk Aw

Hopefully you understand the meaning behind it. Sikhs gave many shaheedis for the true cause and truth has always been victorious but it takes time. fights for independence last long time. more shaheedis Sikhs give stronger the country will be. Great Gursikhs fought for khalistan and gave their lives for khalistan otherwise they wouldn't have joined the freedom groups. poems written by Baba Manochahal clearly show that he was fighting for khalistan. this is just one example, let me know if you want more. what else would you link them with? congress?

We think we can get Khalistan ONLY and ONLY by achieving Shaheedi. We do not think out of the box. This is called janoon. This is a political fight, dirty politics is involved, our real enemies are within us, our Sikh Political bodies and our Jathedaars of Takhats.

maybe you are unaware of our history but shaheedis are backbone of khalsa panth. Shaheedi is the last resort. Bhai Sukhdev Singh couldn't get caught for 14 years. do you think he couldn't think outside the box? if he only wanted to die he wouldn't have lasted this long. he fought the way Guru Ji taught Sikhs. he used every method to serve the panth. at last he gave his life. Bhai Sukha Jhinda gave their lives to energize the shaheedi spirit. Our political fight is fight of Akal Takhat Sahib. it may be dirty to you but pure to me. Sikhs have never fought in anger and never will. it is your misunderstanding so take a hard look at the reality. Our enemies are those who are against Sikhi wherever they may be. Using the shabad is of no use. I talked about physical slavery whereas the shabad is talking about spiritual slavery.

The issue we are facing, if we do not solve them now, there is no guarantee they will be solved after Khalistan. We will become a laughing stock in the entire world, pulling each other's beards and knocking off turbans and kicking them like a soccer ball, which had happed recently during SGPC elections as some of us have seen pictures too.

The most serious problem is that you are mixing Sikhs and government agents. We need to solve issues for sure but a separate country guarantees that the solution will be reached. When Sikhs called Sabrat Khalsa they talked about issues and resolved them. Only jathedars were allowed to enter and they had to provide a secret password. This way no agents could enter and cause trouble. 13 colonies had numerous problems but they locked up all the leaders in a big hall and solved all the issues one by one. people who fought each other in elections are not sikhs in any way. they were sell-outs. it all depends on your mentality. if you think sikhs will do the way you think then it is not my fault but I certainly would not do it nor do i think other sikhs will do it. only true sikhs can solve the issues not sell outs.

Bhaji, for how long did they last? Surviving and lasting are two different things.

They did not die off. They joined each other and established more powerful country. so all jathas need to join together and work things out but to think that issues must be solved before all jathas unite is foolish.

Bhaji, why we do we have to associate Great Gursikh with our purpose that we want to achieve and link their name with it.

Why not? It is not my purpose. I joined their purpose and their mission. They fought for khalistan and died for khalistan. Read Bhai Anokh Singh Ji's shaheedi and hopefully you will see how this singh was absorbed in naam simran and gave his life for khalistan. a person can be one with waheguru but unless he stands up and fights for his rights he will be burnt alive in the streets of delhi after seeing his women being dishonored by gangs. and tell me what should the sikhs in france do? they have sharan of Guru Ji but should they not fight for their rights? if yes then that is what Sikhs are doing in Punjab.

Bhaji, Guru Nanak Dev Ji knew more than us. We are not more intelligent to tell Guru Sahib that we needed Raaj in 1469 but you did not give us.

I am not telling Guru Ji anything. According to Him a community establishes a country with power. Guru Ji gave us the power to establish our country. we need to use it right.

We have more things and more work to do rather than fighting and dying for Khalsa Raaj. Everything has a right time and we should do those things that today's time requires.

Everything a Sikh does leads to Khalsa Raaj. His naam simran, fights for rights, and justice is everything Khalsa Raaj needs. we can educate others and preach sikhi but then again it is our fight for survival. Whether you use pen or gun, it is a fight. Gursikhs don't sit around and wait for things to happen. they make things happen.

Our panth is falling apart. Our generations are driffting away from Sikhi, we have been listening toooooooo many fake Sakhis in Gurdwaras for centures that do not allign with Gurbani, SGPC which did a great work when it was established about a century ago and now see what it has turned in to?

We need to educate our youth, bring them into sikhi, get rid of sgpc and establish a new system for Gurdwaras. I agree with all but then why stop speaking for our rights? If you have your own country you can change laws and make improvements but when others control your country you don't have much to say. GOI controls our system. Khalistan is our need for survival. setting up a better system is prereq.

i'm sorry if i have hurt anybody's feelings. i know many of the forum members are pro khalistani and i respect and love all of them cuz all of you have dard for Sikhi and want our own Sikh Raaj, but at the same time, we have many other issues which we have to give priority to, the prerequisites, like when we want to take a class, we have to complete the prerqs. We don't want to take them, but we have to cuz without them, we cannot take the class that we want to take.

This I agree with. The way I look at it: We need Khalistan but before that we need to:

1) Become Sikhs - keeping the rehat given by panj pyare is the bare minimum.

2) Educate others about Sikhi and our history

3) Control our gurdwaras and establish better management system

4) use gurdwara money to setup sikh institutions and take control of our colleges and universities

These are few steps towards Khalistan but keep in mind that you take classes not just to pass but to get a degree. So while working on all these steps we should keep fighting for our rights. Doesn't matter what spiritual stage i am in I will always talk about Khalistan. I will live and die for it.

Why don't you start a new topic to discuss any issues you are concerned and the possible solutions which hopefully will educate all of us. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[KH4L1$T4N1]

Great reply Bijla Singh

[koonergs]

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