Sikhnet

[Guest Guest]

I actually spoke to a few '3H0 singhs' last week (i put it in brackets 'cause they consider themselves sikhs of guru jee) ... they were saying how people have this mis-conception of them.... from what they said to me... they use Yoga as an excercise... its for the body to keep it strong... as well it helps keep their endurance up (i.e. when it comes to sitting in programz for long periods of time)... i saw for myself that some of these singhs who practice yoga can site for HOURS on end without even changing positions... from what the singhs said to me, they don't use yoga to intertwine with sikhi... i think they also said somethin bout helping them concentrate and relaxing themselves... agreed maybe they 'shouldn't' refer to yoga as much as they do, but i don't see anything wrong with Yoga in general...

bhul chuk maaf

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh!!

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Thats what I always thought...

I wouldnt mind taking up yoga myself if it would me relax lol

But what is yoga anyways its just Indian method of stretching and breathing exercises anyways... for me its not a issue.

[ParwinderSingh]

I really think we should do something about Sikhnet, they are misleading the youth, in the Q & A Forum. For every question the answer is Yoga, and they are making up their own bs to answer all the youth questions, everything is from a Yoga point of view, not a Sikh point of view.

Is there anything we can do, becasue I know so many youth depend on that site?

VJKK

VJKF

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Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa

WAhe Guru Ji Ki Fateh

Sikh net is not doing anything wrong, they give advice in a yoga point of veiw but mainly from a Sikhi point of veiw , and they use the yoga meditation ideas so that the person asking for advice can meditate on the Shabads they give.

They are doing very very good seva for the youth, what more can we ask from them. They are very educated about Gurbani.

The reason why many punjabi ppl dont like it , is because these sikhs dont involve punjabi culture into the Sikh Dharam and help ppl from a strictly unbias point of veiw.

there is a misunderstanding by people.

[ParwinderSingh]

Here is the link where they siad you dont have to wear kakars:

http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/youth.nsf/3...light=0,bathing

Yoga in the Sikhism, our religion should not be intertwined with Yoga, they are 2 different things, but Sikhnet is intertwining to two!

"The Name of the Lord is the enjoyment and Yoga of His servants." - Guru Arjan

"Without the Lord's Name, who has ever found salvation? " - Bhagat Kabeer Ji

"What good is Yoga or indulgence in pleasures?" - Bhagat Kabeer Ji

"All Yoga is in the Name of the Lord" - Bhagat Kabeer Ji

"What is the good of practicing Yoga" - Bhagat Jaidev Ji

"Remaining unblemished in the midst of the filth of the world - this is the way to attain Yoga." - Guru Nanak

"Know that Yoga and sacrificial feasts are fruitless" - Guru Tegh Bahadur

"Cannot satisfy themselves by practicing restraint through Hatha Yoga." - Guru Nanak

"This is the Yoga of the Gurmukh: Through the Shabad, he understands his own soul, and he enshrines within his heart the One Lord. " - Guru Nanak

"One who dies in the Shabad and conquers his mind is the true hermit; he understands the Way of Yoga. " - Guru Nanak

"Through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, you shall find Yoga." - Guru Amardass

"The Way of Yoga is to remain absorbed in Truth." - Guru Nanak

"O Nanak, without the Name, Yoga is never attained" - Guru Nanak

"Listen, you hermits and Yogis. Without the Name, there is no Yoga." - Guru Nanak

"He tasted the tasteless stone of Yoga." - Bhai Satta & Balavanda

"He (God) is not won over by intuitive wisdom, meditation or Yoga." - Guru Nanak

"The Shabad is Yoga" - Guru Nanak

Kundalini Yoga or other various forms of physical Yoga are mentioned in the Guru Granth Sahib as not being essential to a sikhs life... in other words you can be sikh without practising so called "Kundalini Yoga" so why does Yogi Bhajan lay such a stress on this issue?...WHY ISNT THIS STRESS LAID ON NAAM SIMRAN...If "Kundalini Yoga" is so important why didn't the Gurus include descriptions of the various "saadhanas" in the Guru Granth Sahib..and wy has no other Sikh leader and none of the Sikh Guru's held the title of "MAHAN TANTRIC MASTER" Didn't Guru Ji liberate us from these "saadhanas, tantras and mantras" by giving us the Gur Mantar, the true elixir, the Amrit of the SHABAD, WAHEGURU!The SHABAD is the true Yoga i think if i'm wrong could you correct me.

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WJKK WJKF!

Yogi Bhajan Ji used Kundalini Yoga to help us learn how to meditate on the naam effectivley, the mantras he used were 'Whae Guru' which is the gurmantar, and also Sat Naam and mool mantar, i know this because i have learnt about his teachings and am in the process of doing Kundalini Yoga , which is the most purest form. Ppl have a missunderstanding about yoga, when they see pictures of ppl in funny positions..... and false yogis who claim to see Gods etc .

yoga is a science which we can use to help us meditate on God and Gurbani effectively. It helps us concentrate on the shabad, not like alota ppl who are thinking of the money or manmukh things while praying, but yoga helps us concentrate better, is this wrong?

There are many different kinds and some are hindu, budist etc etc which are no good for us.

Bhul Chuk Di Kima

[singhnee101]

I actually spoke to a few '3H0 singhs' last week (i put it in brackets 'cause they consider themselves sikhs of guru jee) ... they were saying how people have this mis-conception of them.... from what they said to me... they use Yoga as an excercise... its for the body to keep it strong... as well it helps keep their endurance up (i.e. when it comes to sitting in programz for long periods of time)... i saw for myself that some of these singhs who practice yoga can site for HOURS on end without even changing positions... from what the singhs said to me, they don't use yoga to intertwine with sikhi... i think they also said somethin bout helping them concentrate and relaxing themselves... agreed maybe they 'shouldn't' refer to yoga as much as they do, but i don't see anything wrong with Yoga in general...

bhul chuk maaf

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh!!

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Vaheugroo ji ka khalsa, Vaheguroo ji ki fateh.

My person opinion is that, if these singhs/singneeah, enjoy yoga, and it brings them closer to god, than i mean whats the problem?And with what heera paaji said, if it helps them to relaz, and concentrate, why do we complain? Yes, Yoga, cant be the answer to everything, and they have probbaly reliazed this. About the khakar situation, that was not the right answer in my opinion...

You should always wear yr khakars, no matter the situation.

[Heera Singh]

on the link that was provided above... the person replied with:

Greetings and blessings to you in the Name of God and Guru.

You have it half right. When you do devotional bathing, i.e. dipping in the nectar tank etc, you keep your 5 kaka's on you. However, when you are resting at home, bathing, sleeping,lovemaking, it is fine to take your kanga, and kirpan, and place it in a clean and respectful place nearby, like, the night table or on an alter or in front of the Guru. You have to wash your katchera and put them into the laundry.

So, be practical and live practically. It is great to be enthusiastic but also be practical and enjoy your maried life together with your wife.

God bless you, SKKK

my personal opinion.. that reply is pure bull... that sorta stuff shouldn't be said on a Sikh website...

... i got the following from a post on another website...

Bhai Nand Lal Jee's Tankhanama states;

"He who abandons the Guru and follows another, who sleeps at night naked from the waist down, whoh engages in intercourse while naked, or who bathes while naked [let him be regarded as a grevious offender" verse 42.

Rehitnama Bhai Desa Singh

"Sustain within your man, compassion, obedience to your dharam and tap. Never be separated from your kachh or your kirpan. In a fight never turn your back or flee from the field of battle" verse 15.

Bhai Daya Singh Rehitnama:

This is for after bathing, how to change the kacherra:

"For changing his kachhera, he should have alength of cloth measureing 2.5 gaz" (what would be the need of this if he could just take it on or off. All Singhs who keep their kacherra at all times need this cloth to change their wet to dry)

also

"If a Khalsa bathes without a kachh or with his kes uncovered instead of h aving a turban properly tied, he should incur a tankhah..." (verse 53)

[Bijla Singh]

1) Yoga helps them to get closer to God.

If this is the case then surely Guru Ji would've taught His Sikhs to practice Yoga and would've offered yoga classes. Imagine Baba Deep Singh Ji and Bhai Taru Singh Ji waking up in Amrit Vela and practicing yoga. Sikhs went through two holocausts. Imagine reading something like "As Sikhs were doing yoga, Mughals attacked and many Singhs became Shaheed." Guru Ji taught us to stay Tyar-Bar-Tyar. Yoga is a waste of time.

2) Yoga is an exercise.

Guru Angad Dev Ji started wrestling classes; Guru Gobind Singh Ji started gatka and martial arts classes. No yoga class is found in the history. Guru Ji did not even consider yoga as an exercise. Naam Simran helps people to relax and is the only way in Sikhi. 3HO are just misguided people.

3) Kakkars

Heera Singh has provided enough proofs. They need to get themselves out of the brainwashing system of yoga and study Sikhi.

Some Facts:

Religious

1) They preach inter-faith marriage.

2) They differentiate between the philosophy of Guru Nanak Dev Ji and Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Gurbani tells us that both are one and the same.

3) Why do they only wear white?

4) They throw flowers on people during weddings in the presence of Guru Sahib.

5) They mix Sikhi symbols with Christianity.

6) They have Khanda on the floor of their Gurdwara.

7) They have a separate flag to represent yoga. Is it still an exercise?

8) They misinterpret Gurbani to support yoga.

9) They place Guru Raamdas Ji higher than other Gurus because according to them 4th Nanak Ji introduced yoga in Sikhi.

10) Yogi tea, yoga oil, and other yoga products. Still just an exercise? Where is the money going?

Politics:- Their beliefs.

1) They refuse to identify themselves as “Anandpur Vaasi” because they already have their own culture (America) and they have a political identity (American). Which means that they don’t accept the political sovereignty of Akaal Takhat Sahib.

2) They do not connect themselves closely with the message of Guru Gobind Singh Ji because they don’t support Khalistan.

3) Khalistan is a waste of time and money.

4) “Raj Karega Khalsa” means spiritual raaj not physical. Wow! Have we been wrong for 300 years?

5) 1984 is something “Punjabi Sikhs” went through and has nothing to do with them because they already have a culture and a political representation. They have no problem in calling us “Punjabi Sikhs” but it saddens them when they are called “White Sikhs”.

List goes on but this is enough. What they are doing is clearly not Sikhi. People don't have misconceptions about them. They have misconceptions about Sikhi.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[Jai Tegang!]

They come from a very different culture, and hence their Sikhi won't amtch ours 100% that's a a given. Instead of trying to bring them down by going on these rants, why don't we write to them to express our concerns with removing the kakaars.

At the end of the day, even the white Sikhs that aren't amritdhari are very spiritual (keeping kesh, turban, simran), which comes as a big slap in the face of the majority of Punjabi Sikhs who aren't amritdhari.

They (the white Sikhs) could also create controversy by going after the Punjabi Sikhs for doing such and such.

They don't, they concentrate ontheir own spirituality.

If you want to teach someone, you have to do with LOVE and RESPECT. By taking digs at the white Sikhs, we aren't helping to solve anything.

I'm sure eventualy we can concinve them that an amritdhari can't be without his kakaars.

But we have to do it with love and genuine respect.

[gurvinderpal]

wow what an intense conversation

[N30S1NGH]

1) Yoga helps them to get closer to God.

If this is the case then surely Guru Ji would've taught His Sikhs to practice Yoga and would've offered yoga classes. Imagine Baba Deep Singh Ji and Bhai Taru Singh Ji waking up in Amrit Vela and practicing yoga. Sikhs went through two holocausts. Imagine reading something like "As Sikhs were doing yoga, Mughals attacked and many Singhs became Shaheed." Guru Ji taught us to stay Tyar-Bar-Tyar. Yoga is a waste of time

really?

This is included in Soraj Parkash Granth(edited version by bhai vir singh ji) and this sakhi is orginally found in sau sakhi of sri guru gobind singh ji..

According to a prasang(divan) on chapter of mata ajeeto kaur(first wife of 10th master) reaching enlightment. Mata ajeto kaur was under guidance of siri guroo gobind singh where she was taught all the "yog sadhna/Shabad Surat Marg by sri guru gobind singh ji, chakras above navel were used", when mata ji did yog sadhna, her birthi(dhyaan) reached - Trikurti/3rd eye..she started seeing the future e.g. the besiegement of Sri Anandpur Sahib, leaving the kila etc and the shaheedia of the char sahibjadey. After seeing this in a dream she asked Guru Gobind Singh jee whether this was true, Guru Sahib confirmed this.

Mata jee then told guru jee that she could not see all this pain happen and would rather die/ leave for Sachkand and asked permission to leave her body. Guru Sahib jee granted her permission and subsequently she did ishnaan, a Sukhmani Sahib da Paath and then left her body by reciting the guru mantara and with that mantar taking her prana on top and realising it via bhram randar nari (vein connected with dasam dwar)) through dasam dwara.

This sakhi is told by many sants from different samparda's. You can confirm with any taksali singh who has proper studying of soraj parkash granth.

[N30S1NGH]

3) Why do they only wear white?

bijla singhji, you should stop being soo narrow minded..there is no where in Gurmat Maryada by sri akal takth sahib nor by sampardha's says that white is anti-panthic color unless you carry your own home made version of gurmat maryada which is no suprise in this case.

even if you look at damdami taksal which you seem to respect tracking by your posts, jathedars in taksal have also wore white and blue, kesri colors all mix..in 3ho there is "NO" major emphasis on color white, in fact if you look at mrsikhnet.com you will see singhs and singhnee dress in all sort of turban colors including burgundy, white, sky blue, keski etc ..majority of them wear white probably because it is representation of spirituality as in person has adapted satoguni diet(veggie diet) along with satoguni life style(be in shant ras primary)... don't even bring the point white dastar wearing saints or sikhs are cowards or lack sipahi aspect, i can give you classic ever living(amar) example of baba maharaj singh ji naurangabad..will post the sakhi if you wish along with his picture if you have brham(doubts).

9) They place Guru Raamdas Ji higher than other Gurus because according to them 4th Nanak Ji introduced yoga in Sikhi.

understatement of century !. It's common knowledge within parcharaks that sri singh sahib yogi bhajan had a vision of sri guru ram das ji..it was very special to him which made him to make all that effort to go to west and preach him.,in the vision guru ji told him flourish sikhi in west as prophesied by dasam patsah- 960 million khalsa shall be.

Politics:- Their beliefs.

1) They refuse to identify themselves as “Anandpur Vaasi” because they already have their own culture (America) and they have a political identity (American). Which means that they don’t accept the political sovereignty of Akaal Takhat Sahib.

Really probably that's why, at 1999. 3ho sikh jatha in thousands went all in anand pur sahib those who were baptised, tasted amrit in anand pur sahib.

2) They do not connect themselves closely with the message of Guru Gobind Singh Ji because they don’t support Khalistan.

Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji supported khalsa raj in ugardanti than your peace of land- khalistan you seem to idolize.

4) “Raj Karega Khalsa” means spiritual raaj not physical. Wow! Have we been wrong for 300 years?

960 Million Khalsa Shall Be

There are no heavens after death. You can practice them here. If you can surprise yourself and surmount your personal difficulty, and rise above the negativity and look towards the light, you will be as bright as you think you can be. And that's the will of God. It is a path of a sage, a saint, a soldier, a seer. What is a sage? What is a saint? One whose personal inferiority does not bother him and his divine superiority guides him. There is no difference. The realism of life is the ecstasy of God.

960 million you shall be, and you will walk on this planet with grace and dignity, once mankind will be free of a man. We are born of the double-edged sword. We will be free in spirit, and ecstasy will be our right, and grace is our always there. Narrowness, shallowness, fear, and hollowness of thought has nothing to do with our path. The past is not our way; the future has to become today to face us. We are the blessed creation of almighty God. It's the God's glorified will in which the Khalsa appeared. I know that these days the question is being asked, "What shall happen to the Sikhs." Worry not, we have gone through this many times, but we are timeless. You do not understand, our watch doesn't mean anything, because after every 24 hours there comes the same sunrise again.

Chhiaanve karorr khalsa sachegaa

Khalsa raj karegaa

960 million khalsa there shall be

The khalsa shall rule

(Sau Sakhee)

I am saying to you all: you and your generations shall rule this planet forever. If man continues to survive for five thousand years, you shall survive in God's own Grace. When you don't forget that, you become the undying throne of this planet. Those who are challenging us, those who are planning to not let us exist, those who are trying to destroy us, we are grateful to them. They are our true love. Because they are making us stronger and stronger.

Our purpose is simple. Guru Arjan sat on the hot plate days in and days out to awaken the spirit of the Khalsa. Guru Teg Bahadur got beheaded so that the blood of that being could nurture the spirit of the Khalsa. The two sons of Guru Gobind Singh fought to give you the strength of the Khalsa. His two younger sons got into the very foundation and the bricks of you so that you can become Khalsa. And in our lifetime, Akal Takhat has offered itself to it's own martyrdom so that Khalsa should remember to be Khalsa.

Time will prove my word today. There shall be 960 million khalsa ruling in this earth, ruling the heart, head, prosperity and projection of all people. We shall illuminate the world in darkness and we'll warm the world in coldness. We'll serve the world at the cost of our entire strength.

The insanity will prevail in the next 20 years coming into the Age of Aquarius. It will be up to the year 2038, when things will come to a stage that people will wander around requesting to be taken into fold of Sikhism. For you, please continue to keep your beard intact and Khalsa will be your own son or daughter of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Some will go away, some will give us a bad time, but in the end, this Dharma shall rule this earth for 5000 years. You and your generations shall rule this planet.

Guru Gobind Singh, can you really know him? Yes you can. Wherever there is a body of the Khalsa, that's Guru Gobind Singh. Time and history shall record him in his magnificence and splendor. His subtle body shall cover our lives like the heat of a blanket. The brilliance of his subtle form will blind our eyes. Guru Gobind Singh is love.

If an action in life, good or bad, cannot create love, then that action is no good. That path is no good, that tradition is no good, that religion is no good. Guru Gobind Singh says:

Saach kaho sun leho sabhai,

Jin prem keeo tin hee prabh paaio.

I speak truth and all should listen

Those who love God, alone will get Him."

(Tav-prasaad Savaaiye, Guru Gobind Singh)

You know that God is Almighty. Guru Gobind Singh Ji tells us God becomes totally subjective to those who love him. He does not become subjective to those who worship Him. God does not become subjective to those who know Him, those who admire Him, or speak highly of Him. Those who love God, God becomes subjective to them. Love is a continuous jappa. Love is anhad. Always in my memory, my Love lives.

Extracted from "The Image of the Tenth Master - Guru Gobind Singh" by Yogi Bhajan

5) 1984 is something “Punjabi Sikhs” went through and has nothing to do with them because they already have a culture and a political representation. They have no problem in calling us “Punjabi Sikhs” but it saddens them when they are called “White Sikhs”.

Another bias comment, here is a picture of 3ho gora sikh with sant jarnail singh khalsa bhindranwale