Tarmalaey ?

[nobody singh]

waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh!!!

seeing with ur eyes and doing practical naam simran is 2 different things. as explained by Guru Granth Sahib (with the giane obtained from Bhai Sahib), if someone is angry they will see life in a different way. if someone is jelous or greedy with there same eyes they wil see things in a different way. try it urself! if someone is angry and u try and calm them down by talking to them, whatever is going through there ears they take it in a different way. this is becasue there giane indreeaa are locked by kaal/maya/5 choor, etc. u cant base what kh@lsa veer saw saw GOSPEL. Bhai Sahib himself said dont take his words as gospel as firstly they are not his teachings and from GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI, secondly u can only eliminate 100% of ur doubts if u do naam simran and experience the gifts Gurbani continously remind us about.

if someone see's something then it doesnt mean they know. how can anyone know whats going on unless they do simran? the basis of this discussion is that u have to do simran to see for urself. this is what it comes down to. there is no short cuts about this!

u r right kh@lsa veer, some of us are 'newbies'. i have never ever posted anything online as i seeked answers from Guru Granth Sahib Ji. i never ever expressed anything to ANYONE becasue in my heart i was never truely sure. by doing pracital naam simran the Guru has elimanted by doubts about how i can meet him. please veer ji listen to my baintee, do not express any opinions unless u do pracitcal naam simran. that in which is taught at swindon (from Gurbani) u do not do and comment on something which u have not done. even stil i am NOT expressing 'opinions' now, myself and other singhs are saying 'do simran', thats it! u give ur opinion based on ur own intelligence and use the intelligence of others but u r not using the intelligance of Guru Sahib. time and time again Guru Sahib tells us to do simran! why are we not listening to Guru's Sahibs BACHAN! these singhs have practically done simran and the ULTIMATE SOURCE GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI has confirmed this...this is then transformed from opinion to FACT as they have done the practical to back it up and Gurbani as the ultimate source.

i fail to understand what it meant by 'doing paragraphs' however much it takes to explain, that what it takes to explain. if i said anything wrong then please address them to me. the content of writing has nothign to do with this conversation. also everyone is entitled to there own opinion, BUT there are people who create there own opinion by listening to the opinion of others which is wrong. do what Guru Sahib says (practical naam simran) and see for urself...

please, people are reading this...do not cloud there path. people can make up there own minds, but this can only be done by doing simran as explained from Gurbani in the previous post that doubts are only dispelled by doing simran. from what i can make of it, it seems that people post there opinions on the internet becasue people can not make there own minds up and seek the adive of GENUINE gursikhs to guide them. my advice to these souls is that listen to Guru Granth Sahib Ji alone! no nindeyai, no hate, NAAM SIMRAN and obtaining the true teachings from Guru Sahib. this brahim giane is now OPEN TO THE WORD!!! if anyone can even give a reasonable chance (go continously and do naam simran) then thats fine, if u r going to go based on peoples opinion who have not yet shown any credibility then all i can say is dont rest ur life on it, not only that, but noting someone who has been there once who was filled with rumours before he went.

waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh!!!

[aadsach]

there was a cult that started many years ago

they japped a lot of naam

they focused only on nirgun saroop and discarded darshan of sargun saroop

a lot of sikhs joined them

after some time they attacked the panth, they are called nirankaris

Fine if you want to believe you can but just be careful and guru kirpa they wont attack the panth

it is clear in my mind that tarmala jatha isnt really khalsa panth as i said earlier Guru Gobind Singh Jee says the first rehat is to take khande ki pahul on the path to become sant sipahi. this jatha says you become sant first and only take amrit to become sipahi.

i met people from non sikh backrounds in india who were happy just to be "sants" and not take amrit and tarmala jatha didnt push them to because it was their choice whether they wanted to be sipahis

again i would like to state i am not sure how swindon jatha works, my experiences are soley from india tarmala jatha

[munjoth]

hunji like i said before that i have heard giani jis katha, I use to listen to it alot, i have also heard that sakhi by him. But when doing gurmat veechar we always refer to our satguru for this bhagti. A Sant, Sadhu, Bhagat, Brahamgyani, Gurmukhs duties and status are outlined in gurbani, we've already covered this topic. As for guru gobind singh jis darshan this is not inline with guru jis bani.

[kh@ls@]

there was a cult that started many years ago

they japped a lot of naam

they focused only on nirgun saroop and discarded darshan of sargun saroop

a lot of sikhs joined them

after some time they attacked the panth, they are called nirankaris

Fine if you want to believe you can but just be careful and guru kirpa they wont attack the panth

it is clear in my mind that tarmala jatha isnt really khalsa panth as i said earlier Guru Gobind Singh Jee says the first rehat is to take khande ki pahul on the path to become sant sipahi. this jatha says you become sant first and only take amrit to become sipahi.

i met people from non sikh backrounds in india who were happy just to be "sants" and not take amrit and tarmala jatha didnt push them to because it was their choice whether they wanted to be sipahis

again i would like to state i am not sure how swindon jatha works, my experiences are soley from india tarmala jatha

The nirankaaris are often described as a cult so what does that make the tarmaleh. By the way it was the topic starter S1NGH that came up with the term tarmaleh not me,

[kh@ls@]

As for guru gobind singh jis darshan this is not inline with guru jis bani.

What therefore are your feelings/views towards Sant ji. Because according to you he is not in line with bani.

[munjoth]

aadsaach this parchaar of akath katha has been done at all the thakats an major gurdwaras, this akath katha gyaan is all dhaarj in gurbani as it is gurbani. this akath akathas purpose is suppose to lead us to vaheguru, we havent covered the katha yet as this is being typed up for english speaking sikhs.

if you would like dvds of the parchaar being done at the panthic gurdwaras, or how the amritsanchaar was accepted and praised, because it was published in all major indian news papers - i can get you the poster so u can read the requirements your self.

[munjoth]

As for guru gobind singh jis darshan this is not inline with guru jis bani.

What therefore are your feelings/views towards Sant ji. Because according to you he is not in line with bani.

^^ veer ji I have no feeling towards sant jarnail singh bhinderawale, no hate no love. I am only here to meet vaheguru and as mentioned before gurbani will take us to vaheguru. Bhagat kabir was asked once what group are you part of and he said: Hum Mehi Dhara ik Ha, he only beclongs to one and we are all from that one.

[kam1825]

Right i have read through this thread, quite confusing to say the least.

Never heard of this Jatha but that does not meean anything. I have a question which was asked but never answered?

Shaking? Tell me more about that?

Naam Simran, brilliant, the purpose of the life of a Sikh is to concentrate on the name of the Lord. Do you really repeat the last syllabal of the Waheguru mantar again. eg Wa He Gu Ru Ru.

The lights you explained, quite worrying and confusing. You say that is when you hit one of the elements? You can go to the Radhaswamis and Noormelias. They can tell you to close your eyes, do gurmantar and at that time will press the temples on your head so you can see a light. Followers then state they have seen a light and hit an element.

Dasam Duar - What about the six chakras before the Dasam Dwar. Do you not see them? Chakras come into gurbani? If you do not see the six chakras, turn them in the corect direction and open them then how do you do so with the Dasam Dwar which is a thousand petalled lotus blossum upside down on the top of the Bhiyungham Nari? If you do no open the others you will struggle to open this one.

The colours that are seen of the Chakras, what happens about them. Do you not see them?

Saas Giraas is the method of bani which is most inline with Gurbani, obviously you have others like akhand jaap, apapa jaap, etc. However you practice this bani, is this with Vaikhree, Madhma, Parsanti and Para. If so again the Chakras will have to be aligned.

With the Anhad Shabad, Which shabad do you actually hear, their are over 10 types of Anhad Shabad. The Panch Shabads can be catogorised as Tanti, Mridang, Ghanta, Ghata and Nafiri?

You speak of the Asthool Sareer (the body) and The Sukham Sareer being the Atma. However what about the Karan Sareer which is smaller then the sookham Sareer?

Our subtle body/Shuksham Sirar is made of 17 elements together- five pranas, five gyan indrai(senses), five karam indra(senses), Man(Mind) and Buddh(Intellect)

I do not find turning down people for Amrit a problem. Each person should have to earn it. Guru Gobind Singh Ji asked for the Amrit and Bhai Daya Singh said, "We have given our heads for this Amrit. What will you give for it?"

Guru Gobind Singh Ji replied, "I will give all, including my family for the Khalsa. Khalsa Meri Jaan Ki Jaan."

Yogi Harbhajan Singh twice was rejected when he went to take his amrit and Sant Kartar Singh Ji Bhindrawalae were initially told they could not take amrit and come into the taksal until they had learned the Nitnem and Panj Granthi Paath off by heart. One need to earn their amrit and i do not disagree with that.

I have not posted this in order to ridicule but to find out more about this jatha however the one thing i will say is that one cannot be guaranteed an avastha of Brahmgian from any form of Jaap or Buddhi. It is all in accordance with the will of God. The one thing i can say is that no matter how much simran you do it does not matter if there is no love and devotion. Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji said, "Jin Prem Kiyo Tin Hee Prabh Paiyo" This is the most important thing and not promises by any mahapurkh.

A story comes to mind regarding a meeting of a giani and Baba Nand Singh Ji from Nanaksar. The Giani asked how Baba Ji gained the gloriuos glimpse of the Lord. Baba Nand Singh Ji said by completing a Shej Paath on their own which they did only once. The Giani was quite shocked by this as he said he had completed a Sahaj Paath over 15 times but had not recieved the same aware. Baba Ji went on to say that the difference was that the Giani had never recited the Gurbani with love and devotion with firm and unshakable belief.

A good post regarding the Anhaad Shabad can be found on the following link

http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...opic.php?t=8473

A good post on the Chakras can be found on the following link

http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...opic.php?t=2919

Another post worth reading is also below

http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...opic.php?t=7649

[singh_khalsa]

.

[GuruManeyoGranth]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

My contribution to this debate is not personal experience, but nevertheless from a person who got very close to those with the Tarmaala Jatha, and then pulled out after about a year. Main reasons he left was that although he liked the emphasis on Naam Simran - Singhs in the Jatha would congregate at weekends for 8 hours or more of straight Saas-Giraas Simran Abhiyaas - he was unnerved by being told that Nitnem and reading Bani is not important.

He also got disaffected with the constant promises that if you do Simran with us, then you'll be able to reach certain Avasthaa. E.g., you'll be able to read people's mind. One of the Tarmaala Singhs always told him that his soul went regularly to the moon and other planets. There was a general sense of boasting of what individuals had/were achieving through Simran. This he felt was leading into displaying Ridhiaa-Sidhiyaa, which Gursikhs must avoid/overcome. Also, he felt that Sikhi Kamaiye should be kept Gupt, rather than flashed about.

His experiences led me to steer clear of the Tarmaala Jatha.

Bhul Chuk Maaf

Waheguroo