New So Called Gur Matta Re Dasam Granth Ji

[V]

If you had known which banees constitute the Amrit Sanchar, you wouldnt even have asked this question.

Totally irrelevant. Nothing to do whether its parkash or not. My question remains: Why wasn't parkash of Dasm Granth done during 1699 Vaisakhi if he held it in the same light as Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj

How do you know that Dasvan Patshah Ka Granth was never parkashed during Guru Gobind Singh Sahib's time.

How do you know that Bhai Gurdas Ji's vaars wasn't parkash. Your question is absurd. Our ithhas tells us Guru Arjan Dev Ji did Parkash of Aad Granth. Is there ANYTHING AT ALL that tells us that he did parkash of Dasam Granth. None that you have been able to provide, so as far as I'm aware, we know he did parkash of Guru Granth Sahib Ji, but nothing tells us he did it with Dasam Granth.

There are two things here 'Gurgaddi' and 'Parkash'. Time and again you are mixing up both these things.

I'm not mixing up anything. I'm not even bringing up Gurgaddi. As I mentioned, I haven't used the word Gurgaddi for this reason. You will distort my post. I'm not talking about Gurgaddi, I am talking about doing parkash of Dasam Granth. Stop diverting the topic. I'm still waiting for historical evidence that Maharaj did parkash of Dasam Granth, and both of us know that this was not the case, yet you do anything to prove yourself correct

Guru Sahib didnt give Gurgaddi to Sri Dasam Granth. This doesnt mean Sri Dasam Granth was never parkashed!

You ask for evidence that it was parkashed. Why not show evidence that it was not.

That is an absurd thing to say. Just because you claim something doesn't make that the case. None of our ithhas tells us this was the case. NONE. Not Suraj Parkash, None of the muslim writers, none of the rehitnamas mention even the CONCEPT of Parkash of the two Granth (though they mention doing paath and learning the Banis) NONE of them mention the Parkash. Where all of the historics, the kavis asleep during the time of Guru Gobind Singh Sahib that they failed to write that, hey btw Guru Gobind Singh deos parkash of his Granth.

We know Guru Arjan Dev Ji did, yet we KNOW that Guru Gobind Singh Ji did not. I suggest you call Dr Jodh Singh, Dr Punnu or G.s Lamba and ask them

[Akaali]

I'm with V.

I beleive Sri Dasam Granth to be bani of Guru Pitajee, but I don't think parkaash of the granth should be done in equal status to Guru Granth Sahib jee. Even though taksaal is for dasam bani in amrit sanchars organized by damdami taksal only guru sahib's saroop is at parkaash, this whole parkaash business started with the nihangs and it should end there.

We have to understand why we do parkaash of guru sahib first before we try to debate for it.

[ghorandhar]

Veer Khalsaland jee, during the time of Sukha Singh and Mehtab Singh jee there would have not been an argument whether the dasam granth should be in volume or numerous if the dasam granth was parkash from the time of Guru Gobind Singh jees. This point has been made many times. Im sure Veer V jee mentioned this many times. This is why contrary evidence was requested.

The point I made about the Akal Takhat is that because something is practiced there during and before the 20s, 30s, it does not mean its correct, just as having idols and pandits doing raasam in the Darbar sahib complex. The fact is that what is happening 220 years after gurgaddi was given to the guru granth sahib has no legitimacy esp when we consider what else was happening. I believe that If I follow the updesh of Guru Gobind Singh jees bani, then Ive shown respect. If you want to talk about respect then im sure calling the dasam granth 'it' might also come under your definition of lack of respect.

Erm......no veer jee, the panth has made it clear about the bani of Guru Gobind Singh jee and In my opinion we should try to sing atleast one shabad from Guru Gobind Singh jees bani when doing kirtan because we are losing the shabad reets and purataan bandishs. You can try doing your investigations (because you have nothing else relevant to say) which is based on nothing just as your belief in doing parkash of the dasam granth and being able to contravene the panth. All that ive said is in accordance with the guru panth and the Akal Takaht, I will ask for muafee if I have said anything against its decisions.

[jassa]

Even though taksaal is for dasam bani in amrit sanchars organized by damdami taksal only guru sahib's saroop is at parkaash

says who ??? in punjab where ever taksals amrit sanchar is done parkash of sri dasam granth is done in the same palki !!!

[khalistan_zindabaad]

parkash of sri dasm granth sahib jee dsnt happen in the amrit sanchaars, veer jassa may be slightly mistaken, however parkash does happen at mehta chowk and has been happening for many years, going back into the time of sant kartaar singh jee. amrit is of guru sahib not of a samparda, or jatha or even society....

if you have a problem with the parkash of sri dasm granth sahib jee, then i suggest you go and take it up with the places that do it, GO ON, stop doing our head in on the net, go to mehta chowk, nihang dals, puratan sampardas, takht sahibs and say that they are doing beadbi, just make sure you have enough life in you to tell us what the reply was.

Just to counteract one point, some veers stated that a hukamnama has been released, thats incorrect a hukamanam has not been released. a sandesh has, there is a big difference. my benti is, whoever follows the marayda of SGPC imposed on akaal thakht sahib 100% they should folow this sandesh, if not then shut it. Because truthfully i doubt that no one on this forum follows this apparent ''panth PARVAAN'' maryada.

[SunSingh]

Dasam Granth Sahib ji is actually prakash at Amrit Sanchaars at the DDT. however, it's very difficult to find a saroop in the west.

"There are certain respected jathebandis such as Nihangs and Damdami Taksal who do the parkash

of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib but do ensure that the solo parkash of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib is not

done. The parkash of Sri Dasam Granth is always done in the presence and auspice of Sri Guru

Granth Sahib. This gesture in itself ensures supremacy of Sri Guru Granth Sahib and is a

declaration that there is only one Guru and that is Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.

Hence the parkash of Sri Dasam Granth is a non-issue. And surprisingly enough this issue has

suddenly germinated under the patronage of a controversial ragi when the panth is concentrated on

celebrating the tri-centenary of the Guruship to Sri Guru Granth Sahib. The whole hue and cry by

certain quarters regarding the parkash of Sri Dasam Granth is nothing but a calculated move

motivated by mischief and is void of any logical discourse. And this mischief is often cashed by

instilling the pseudo fear of challenge to the supremacy of Sri Guru Granth Sahib. The supremacy

of Sri Guru Granth Sahib is eternal and the prakash of Sri Dasam Granth when done in the

presence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib only ensures and reiterates this supremacy.

The uncontroverted fact is that Sri Dasam Granth Sahib is the assurance of the separate entity of

Khalsa, and the real ulterior motive of the blasphemous anti-panthic forces raising the hoax of

parkash is basically to disown and wean away the Sikhs from the powerful banee of Guru Gobind

Singh ji, thus making the Khalsa a real and reformed Hindu.

According to Kesar Singh Chibber, Guru Gobind Singh Sahib had himself defined and explained

the relationship between Sri Guru Granth Sahib and Sri Dasam Granth. And this Guru-vaak should

be our guiding force.

ਛੋਟਾ ਗ

[khalsaland]

.

Search for a quote from any 'puratan' source about the introduction of 'parkash' of 'Aad Granth' by Guru Arjan Sahib. You will realise how histories are written/made.

Fact is parkash of both the Granths have been done in Khalsa tradition. If you believe that this tradition has been introduced by mischief then prove it.

Else there is only one reason behind Sri Dasam Granth parkash...and that is respect for the Dasam Bani.

Why crave for a quote from history about Sri Dasam Granth parkash when we can see that it has been parkashed throughout history in Khalsa traditions...

First of all you have no way to prove that Sri Dasam Granth was not parkashed..

Secondly the fact is some of the oldest Khalsa Jathebandis, the Damdami Taksal, Nihang Jathebandis and others have been doing Sri Dasam Granth parkash throughout history.

Unless you have evidence to show that the parkash of Sri Dasam Granth was mischievously introduced into Sikhism there is no point to rattle a non-issue.

[Inder Singh]

Ghorandhar

Do not be so innocent.You know who slander Dasam Granth.That icludes you also.The main names are Kala afghana,Darshan Lal,Gurtej singh etc etc etc.Jasbir Mann writes that this granth was planted by British.You want evidence i can provide.

Suffice to say that Bani of tenth master is as revered as banis of other Gurus irrespective of it being contained in SGGs or not.Sikhs are free to do parkash of his bani as their will.No one say no one can force them not to do this.

Have you read this.This indicates to taech lesson to slanderers and scoundrels,bhekhis posing as sikhs God sends his representatives to undo the wrongs.

ਖਗ ਖੰਡ ਬਿਹੰਡੰ ਖਲ ਦਲ ਖੰਡੰ ਅਤਿ ਰਣ ਮੰਡੰ ਬਰ ਬੰਡੰ ॥

खग खंड बिहंडं खल दल खंडं अति रण मंडं बर बंडं ॥

The sword chops well, chops the forces of fools and scoundrels and bedecks and glorifies the battlefield.

ਭੁਜ ਦੰਡ ਅਖੰਡੰ ਤੇਜ ਪ੍ਰਚੰਡੰ ਜੋਤਿ ਅਮੰਡੰ ਭਾਨ ਪ੍ਰਭੰ ॥

भुज दंड अखंडं तेज प्रचंडं जोति अमंडं भान प्रभं ॥

It is the unbreakable staff of the arm, it has the powerful luster and its light even bedims the radiance of the sum.

ਸੁਖ ਸੰਤਾ ਕਰਣੰ ਦੁਰਮਤਿ ਦਰਣੰ ਕਿਲਬਿਖ ਹਰਣੰ ਅਸਿ ਸਰਣੰ ॥

सुख संता करणं दुरमति दरणं किलबिख हरणं असि सरणं ॥

It brings happiness to the saints, mashing the vicious ones, it is the destroyer of sins and I and under its refuge.

ਜੈ ਜੈ ਜਗ ਕਾਰਣ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਉਬਾਰਣ ਮਮ ਪ੍ਰਤਿਪਾਰਣ ਜੈ ਤੇਗੰ ॥੨॥

जै जै जग कारण स्रिसटि उबारण मम प्रतिपारण जै तेगं ॥२॥

Hail, hail to the cause of the world, saviour of the universe, it is my preserver, I hail its victory. 2.

Suffice

[Inder Singh]

Inder Singh, I'm still waiting for your reference that Dasam Granth was parkash at Akal Takhat up till 1940's. Fact that Akal Takhat banned parkash and Akhand Paath of Dasam Granth 1934, doesn't help your case either

Fact remains: Maharaj decided not to Parkash it - who are you to change it?

Maharaj decided not to treat the Banis the same way - who are you to change Maharaj Ji's way of doing things. Kaun ho tusi badlan valey?

Also stop using Sikh Rehit Maryada as a reference. You don't adhere to it anyway

Mr V

You guys are not only slanderers of Dasam bani but also dishonest.I have posted the source in one of the threads and i am sure you have raed it.But so innocently you are saying that you are waiting.Read and note it down.Do not play hide and seek in league with Ghornadhar.

The parkash of Dasam Granth took place on regular basis at akal takhat .In 1944 from Dec 21 to dec 25 on the occasion of birthday of Guru Gobind singh,an akhand path of Dasam Granth was held at Akal takhat sahib by jathedar Mohan singh who was then Jathedar of akal takhat as well president of Shiromani Gurudwara Parbandhak committee.

Ref :Poetry of Dasam Granth,Dr Ashta(1959) page 5

[Inder Singh]

Khalsaland, you have again diverted the topic. By writings half of your post on Rehitnamas. I agree that rehitnamas were the basis of the Sikh Rehit Maryada. I fully support this maryada (which ironically rejects many of the statements in the rehitnamas you have mentioned.) Do you fully accept the Sikh Rehit Maryada as it as? Why the hypocrasy. Since you are bent on accepting all Rehitnamas, I assume you accept everything Chaupa Singh has written. I suggest you start reading the rehitnamas before commenting on them. Do you accept that bibis cannot have Khandey da Amrit, but should have Kirpan da Amrit?

Parkash of Dasam Granth is EXACTLY what the issue is about, considering Guru Gobind Sahib Maharaj made a decision to distinguish his writings from the first ten Gurus (of the same jyot.) It is YOU who are making an issue out of an issue already solved by the Panth - or does this faisla not suit your own belief? Maharaj Made the faisla. Panth clarified the faisla. The Sikh Rehit Maryada is clear about the issue. You are out their to misinterpret it to suit your needs.

Again, I'm waiting for evidence that Guru Gobind Singh Sahib did Parkash of Dasam Granth.

You now agree at least that Dasam Granth is His bani.Since it his bani ,it is as precious as SGGS writings.Sikh rehat maryada does specify that all writings of our Gurus whether verbal or written are equally holy for us.

In light of above sikhs have full authority to decide whtehr to do parkash of Dasam granth or not.I have earlier given you refrence that it was in parkash at akal takhat as late as 1940s.

Would you also advocate bring idols back into darbar sahib complex because they were also there?

I have also given you a referance saying that before your claim of the Dasam granth being parkash, the AKal takhat ruled against having it parkash. If you want to go back into history then you will not also bring idols back into the complex, you will also bring the pandits back into the complex, remember that it was not anand karag with took place, it was the rasaam created by brahmans and pandits. However im not sure there will be many people who will follow your lead to bring back what was practiced in the 20s, 30s etc. what happened in the 1940s does not really give much legitimacy to your argument. Esp when in 1708 it was not happening when gurgaddi was given to the Guru granth sahib jee

Its not the first time Veer V jee made it clear that he is talking about the parkash and not the content. so there is no need to act like its a revelation, its just your failure to understand what others are saying.

A complete nonsensicle post devopid of historical facts by Ghorandhar.

He should know that Akal takhat was always in the control of Bhudha Dal Nihungs .He should also know that all sikh leaders from Baba Binod singh to akali Phula singh ji were Nihumg sikhs.So parkash of Dasam Granth was there at akal takhat.That is why when Gurmattas were held both Granths were in parkash.Read John malcolm's "Sketch of sikhs".

How parkash of Dasam Granth is related to idols.Are you telling us parkash of Dasam Granth at akal takhat was wrong?If so then you have to discown thew complete sikh history.Wake up man.

I'm with V.

I beleive Sri Dasam Granth to be bani of Guru Pitajee, but I don't think parkaash of the granth should be done in equal status to Guru Granth Sahib jee. Even though taksaal is for dasam bani in amrit sanchars organized by damdami taksal only guru sahib's saroop is at parkaash, this whole parkaash business started with the nihangs and it should end there.

We have to understand why we do parkaash of guru sahib first before we try to debate for it.

Please let me who are Nihungs and who were leading sikhs immediately after Guru Gobind singh left his mortal remains.All sikhs were nihungs.If do not know read sikh hsitory.