Dusshera

[singhfauja]

Harinder Singh,

No one is saying Guru Nanak Dev Ji NOT the ਜੁਗੋ-ਜੁਗ ਅਟਲ ਗੁਰੂ.

The Swaiyas of the Bhatts state in Guru Granth Sahib Ji:

ਕਲਿਜੁਗਿ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਣੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰੁ ਅੰਗਦੁ ਅਮਰੁ ਕਹਾਇਓ ॥

Whereas,

ਸਤਜੁਗਿ ਤੈ ਮਾਣਿਓ ਛਲਿਓ ਬਲਿ ਬਾਵਨ ਭਾਇਓ ॥

ਤ੍ਰੇਤੈ ਤੈ ਮਾਣਿਓ ਰਾਮੁ ਰਘੁਵੰਸੁ ਕਹਾਇਓ ॥

ਦੁਆਪੁਰਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਮੁਰਾਰਿ ਕੰਸੁ ਕਿਰਤਾਰਥੁ ਕੀਓ ॥

ਉਗ੍ਰਸੈਣ ਕਉ ਰਾਜੁ ਅਭੈ ਭਗਤਹ ਜਨ ਦੀਓ ॥

There is no doubt that Guru Nanak Dev Ji is the ਅਟਲ ਗੁਰੂ.

For a Sikh to observe the claim certain days connected to Hindu deities as "auspicious" is directly in contrast to Gurmat principles and Sikh Rahit Maryda.

It is very troubling to see Hindu symbolism and ideology re-surfacing again on Sikh forums such as this.

Those who are mis-using the recent wave of interest in Sri Dasam Bani to inject Brahmin-Sanatan ideology need to watched with vigilance.

[GPS]

We have bani from our Gurus.That is the yardstick for us to infer message of our Gurus.

We should rebut those who may tout beliefs contrary to that. I do not find any reason

to pass any sarcastic remarks for any organization by name. That is not a sikh practice.

Sikhs observe these days such as Diwali , dussehra and holla for their own reasons.

They do not observe these because these are Hindu days.

I have seen missionaries spewing venom on observance of Diwali by sikhs. But sikh

historical sources are very categorical on observance of diwali on release of Guru sahib.

[GPS]

Jvala singh ji

I have a question for you from other thread.

Baba Inderjit singh is very clear in his katha that Bhagauti is a kirpan for sikhs.

Then why did you write the bani from Krishna avtar with a special mention

" Ath devi ji i ustat".

Have you read Dasam Granth sahib.There are many odes like this titled as

" Devi ji ki ustat". But that ustat is of akal purakh and not any physical entity.

What was the prupose of laying emphasis on "Devi ji ki ustat"

and what do you infer by term Devi in above?

[GPS]

Jvala singh ji

I have a question for you from other thread.

Baba Inderjit singh is very clear in his katha that Bhagauti is a kirpan for sikhs.

Then why did you write the bani from Krishna avtar with a special mention

" Ath devi ji i ustat".

Have you read Dasam Granth sahib.There are many odes like this titled as

" Devi ji ki ustat". But that ustat is of akal purakh and not any physical entity.

Guru sahib has mentioned in that ustat that it is you , akal purakh, who is master

of everything.

What was the prupose of laying emphasis on "Devi ji ki ustat"

and what do you infer by term Devi in above?

[sikhreality]

Jvala singh ji

I have a question for you from other thread.

Baba Inderjit singh is very clear in his katha that Bhagauti is a kirpan for sikhs.

Baba Ji said that Bhagauti without form is Shakti and when it is a form it is a Kirpan. But also he said that another form of Bhagauti is Durga/Chandi.

Baba Ji also said Durga/Chandi and Kirpan are both forms of Shakti.

Then why did you write the bani from Krishna avtar with a special mention

" Ath devi ji i ustat".

Have you read Dasam Granth sahib.There are many odes like this titled as

" Devi ji ki ustat". But that ustat is of akal purakh and not any physical entity.

Why did I write the bani Ath Devi Ju Ki Ustat? I just put what Maharaj wrote, do you want me to change what Maharaj wrote and put Ath Akaal Ju Ki Ustat? Lets not do the same mistake Ram Rai did.

What was the prupose of laying emphasis on "Devi ji ki ustat"

and what do you infer by term Devi in above?

I do not infer anything, I post what I find interesting and what appeals to me. The photograph of an old manuscript which has a drawing of Devi and then a passage from Dasam Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji which praises Devi, which is Akaal Purkh Ji's Shakti, as per the teachings of Nihung Singhs, Nirmalae, Udasis and other Sampradayas. This is also the teaching that has been given to me by Giani Baba Inderjit Singh Ji.

You guys can go ahead and re-write Dasam Sri Guru Granth Sahib to make it appealing to others by putting Akaal instead of Devi, or we can just destroy the sigma attached to the word Devi. If we destroy the stigma attached to the word, and understand how Devi is Shakti of Akaal, then the Anti-Dasam Granth believers will lose their ammunition towards Dasam Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Or we can believe that sure it praises Devi , but this is a translation of a Puran and therefore not per Gurmat, Maharaj was just translating a Puran. But do you honestly think that Maharaj would write down for his beloved followers writings which He does not subscribe to? Don't you think that would be confusing for the Khalsa? Would Maharaj write lies/falsehood ?

End of the day, you can insult me, call me a Neo-Nang, Hindu Snantani, RSS, Nirmala Pandit, Traitor of the Panth and whatever other cliche terms you have for someone with a different mindset, but please leave out the Mahapurkhs from puratan sampradyas from your remarks.

Namaksaar to the Beloved Sikhs of the Guru who uphold the traditional sidhaant.

[Koi]

http://sikh-reality....in-sikhism.html

Benthi to all to listen to the beautiful katha by Giani Baba Inderjit Singh Ji, student of Nihung Baba Karam Singh Rakba Vale [Jathedar of Damdama Sahib Patshahi 6 after Nihung Baba Mitt Singh Ji] and Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranvale

Makes perfect sense.

A very nice Article

[GPS]

Baba Ji said that Bhagauti without form is Shakti and when it is a form it is a Kirpan. But also he said that another form of Bhagauti is Durga/Chandi.

Baba Ji also said Durga/Chandi and Kirpan are both forms of Shakti.

Jvala singh ji

No. He said that Hindus considered Durga as shakti. Here you are not being honest and twisting things.Sikhs are not Hindus as Baba ji said that sikhs consider kirpan as shakti of waheguru.

Why did I write the bani Ath Devi Ju Ki Ustat? I just put what Maharaj wrote, do you want me to change what Maharaj wrote and put Ath Akaal Ju Ki Ustat? Lets not do the same mistake Ram Rai did.

In that " ath devi ji ki ustat" Maharaj has defined devi as akal purakh and not any deity.

I do not infer anything, I post what I find interesting and what appeals to me. The photograph of an old manuscript which has a drawing of Devi and then a passage from Dasam Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji which praises Devi, which is Akaal Purkh Ji's Shakti, as per the teachings of Nihung Singhs, Nirmalae, Udasis and other Sampradayas. This is also the teaching that has been given to me by Giani Baba Inderjit Singh Ji.

Hindus consider that and they do not consider any akal purakh above that devi. Guru ji in Dasam Granth has used Devi there as akal purakh and not Durga devi.Do not mix two philosophies.

You guys can go ahead and re-write Dasam Sri Guru Granth Sahib to make it appealing to others by putting Akaal instead of Devi, or we can just destroy the sigma attached to the word Devi. If we destroy the stigma attached to the word, and understand how Devi is Shakti of Akaal, then the Anti-Dasam Granth believers will lose their ammunition towards Dasam Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Words have different meanings per context of use. In that ode it is refrenece to parmatama and not any physical devi.And baba Innderjit singh does not make comment on that ode. Do not misquote him.Neitehr any Nihung sect in India consider Durga the way you think.

Or we can believe that sure it praises Devi , but this is a translation of a Puran and therefore not per Gurmat, Maharaj was just translating a Puran. But do you honestly think that Maharaj would write down for his beloved followers writings which He does not subscribe to? Don't you think that would be confusing for the Khalsa? Would Maharaj write lies/falsehood ?

Here either you are not aware of Dasam Granth or you are making up false stories. The passaage you have given is from Krishna avtar. Durga has no business to be there in krishna avtar as it is avatr of vishnu.They are absolutley different belief systems.

It is not translation of purana in toto. Read purana before writing this.I have gone through puranas to go to roots. Maharaj has left out all pasages of Purana that are in praise of Durga. This is applicable to Chandi charitras.

Krishna avtar is from Bhagvat Purana tenth chapter. It is also not transaltion in toto.Major part of krishna avatar is "War management" where kharag singh fights with Krishna and puts him down under his foot by pulling from his hair. That whole section is not from purana.It is written new by Guru sahib and forms major part of krishna avtar. Please do not make false stories.

End of the day, you can insult me, call me a Neo-Nang, Hindu Snantani, RSS, Nirmala Pandit, Traitor of the Panth and whatever other cliche terms you have for someone with a different mindset, but please leave out the Mahapurkhs from puratan sampradyas from your remarks.

Namaksaar to the Beloved Sikhs of the Guru who uphold the traditional sidhaant.

I have no intention to insult you.

But it is clear from your reply that you have an agenda. Prove it that " ath devi ji ki ustat" Is translation from Purana . I say it is not found in tenth chapter of bhagwat purana.Show me if you say so.

Prove it that it is praise for DUrga and i say it is not. DEvi word has been used for God. Dasam Granth is full of metaphors.Either you do not understand it or you are twisting ,meanings of Guru sahib's bani.

You are doing it in a subtle way.You post recording of Baba Inderjeet singh and your motive is something else.

[GPS]

Javala singh ji

Please do not taint the good name of Damdami taksal by ascribing things to them which they do not believe in.

Listen to Sant Jarnail singh ji interpreting meanings and status of Durga in sikh belief. Sikhs do not ascribe any special status

to these deities.

http://patshahi10.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=218:sant-jarnail-singh-bhindranwale-explains-the-meaning-of-qmahakaalq-from-bachittar-natak&catid=56:videos-by-patshahi10org&Itemid=73

[kamalroop singh]

Vahiguroo ji ka Khalsa

Vahiguroo ji ki fateh!

While I commend Jvala Singh for posting original material, from Dasam and Sarbloh Granth Sahibs on his blog : sikh-reality.blogspot.com, I do not commend the interpretation of his translations, as well as the lack of contextulisation about the 'Devi'. It is clear what my younger brother is trying to allude to, this is obvious from his excessive focus on the Goddess presented on his site.

When we read the bani of Guru Gobind Singh with great attention it is clear what the Guru is referring to by Chandi, Devi, Durga, Bhagauti etc, she represents the unlimited power of Akal Purukh - Shakti. Another reason the Guru refers to the Goddess as a symbol, is to concrete his argument to the Hindu Hill Rajas, that to truely follow their Dharam they must fight the oppression of the Moghuls, as their deity fought against tyranny in Satyug. The Devi therefore serves more than one purpose in the narratives - or charitras in the Dasam Granth Sahib. Within the Charitras the Guru is clear, Akal Purukh:

ਤਾਰਨ ਲੋਕ ਉਧਾਰਨ ਭੂਮਹਿ ਦੈਤ ਸੰਘਾਰਨ ਚੰਡਿ ਤੁਹੀ ਹੈ ॥

तारन लोक उधारन भूमहि दैत संघारन चंडि तुही है ॥

Thou art the same Chandika, who ferries across the people; Thou art the redeemer of the earth and destroyer of the demons. The key point being the use of the words Thou art, Akal Purakh you are......

In Chandi di //, Pritham Bhagauti Simar Key, does not mean to first meditate on the Devi. This is what Professor Darshan Singh et al are arguing about this line. This leads to doubts and skepticism about the Holy scripture, as Sri Bhagauti is referenced throughout the Sri Dasam Granth Sahib of Guru Gobind Singh.

Teja Singh Bhasauria changed this line in the Ardas to Satinam. This was complete hereticism, but it also gives us a clue to what Bhagauti actually means. Teja Singh knew that Bhagauti represented the complete form or Sargun aspect of God or Kal - the God of time, the God of action (Sukhmani Sahib record Sargun Nirgun Nirankar Sun Samadhi Ap). While Akal represents the Nirgun timeless form of God, Kal represents Gods sarguna form in time - time due to existence. The root of Sat in Sanskrit also means the same: truth, being...existence. Bhakti of Naam = the Shakti of Naam. The word (logos) gives birth to existence through its Shakti. The invocation of the bani begins with Ik Oankar Sri Vahiguru ji ki fateh. Sri Bhagauti ji sahai. Bhakti - then Shakti. This is the same Shakti that run through the veins of Sri Durga when she kills the demons....but it is not hers it belongs to Ik Oankar, through the Naam.

[jaswinder singh]

If we read Sri guru Granth sahib ji carefully we would find the concept of AVTAAR IS NORT ACCEPTABLE

in our faith . wHEREVER QUOTAD, IT IS TO GIVE illusration or example to prove some point .