Why Are Sikhs Leaving Sikhism?

[chatanga]

Some times you meet two siblings, two brothers who have had similar upbringings but one turns out interested in his religion and one is completely uninterested. I know this because me and my brother are like this.

So are me and my brother. I think its also to do with Karam.

[VanHelsingh]

So are me and my brother. I think its also to do with Karam.

Especially 'pichle' Karam...

[malkeet]

as with lots of the problems facing sikhs, i feel that a major contributing factor is that our gurdwaras arent educating the youth effectively about sikhi. The majority of sikhs from non amritdhari families are learning about their world from the tv...how they should behave, purpose of life, whats acceptable etc. I feel that we should aspire to set up a national education system in gurdwaras for young sikhs to learn about their religion. Something that the kids could attend several days a week or even everyday. It will take a huge effort to implement but i for one would be willing to contribute my spare time and seva to such an endevour. uk gurdwaras need to seriously start investing in youth otherwise in 20/30years time gurdwaras will be closing down like churched are today.

sorry if ive said something wrong

vjkk vjkf

[dalsingh101]

I'm not being negative when I say this. But I believe I'm being realistic. But when you said:

I feel that we should aspire to set up a national education system in gurdwaras for young sikhs to learn about their religion. Something that the kids could attend several days a week or even everyday. It will take a huge effort to implement but i for one would be willing to contribute my spare time and seva to such an endevour.

I think it is a great idea but limited as what usually happens is that you end up mainly 'preaching to the converted' as they say. We need more wide ranging strategies too. Ones that reach those people who have been alienated/separated from the panth too.

[11Gurus1Jot]

I'm just wondering if people think we are a warm, welcoming people on the whole?

I think dalsingh has hit the nail on the head!

Everyone is welcome in the Gurdwara - in my life experience nobody has ever been turned away (unless, they are being deliberately extremely disrespect towards Guru Ji or the Sangat. However, getting back to Dal Singh's point, although we never turn anyway away, what do we actually do to help someone who was NOT born into a Sikh family, into Sikhi. I mean really, when a white, black, or non-Sikh Asian person walks into a Gurdwara, maybe with even a view to join the Sikh faith, who would approach and encourage that person to keep on coming back to the Gurdwara?

If a Sikh Girl walked into a Mosque or Church on one of their busy occasions I bet you that somebody would probably pounce on them straight away. We would probably criticise them for this, but isn't that them just 'being' welcoming??

If a non-Sikh Asian girl, or black or white Muslim or Christian Girl walked into a Gurdwara, how long would it take for somebody to ask that girl if she was actually looking to become a Sikh? Some of this may just be down to Sikhs not trying to take people away from their religion. But if that's the case aren't we always going to be losing numbers?

Think about it, there's only 3 ways a religion can grow in numbers, these are:-

• either everybody gets married and has more than two children who stay in the faith (More Muslims are getting married and having more children than Sikhs)
• and Nobody leaves that religion (as you say in the posts above, Muslims condition their children not to leave their faith)
• Or thirdly, new members come into that religion (We keep saying that Muslims will go to the extent of tricking our children into their faith, whereas we won't even approach non-Sikhs to ask if they want to become a Sikh, even when they walk into a Gurdwara! - do any of you know anyone who has done that???)

Question is: what does the Shabad "Aap Japo Avra Naam Japavo" actually mean? Does it mean encourage everyone to do naam jap, including non-Sikhs…. But then when they develop a True Love for SGGS Ji as a result of Naam Jap are we then there to truly welcome them into Sikhi, even if they are a non-Sikh Asian, or black or white?? Or do we get them to develop a love for the naam and then leave them out in the 'cold' because they were never born a Sikh? Remember, the Muslims are taking full converts for non-Muslim Asians, and black and white people.

We accept people are leaving Sikhi - but more importantly how many new members are we welcoming into Sikhi as ‘full converts’?

[Himat408]

I have to say that we cant group all people leaving Sikhi into one group. I do not have an answer or know much about those who leave Sikhi for another faith.

Now I have some experience with those that have become atheists. It all boils down to the existence of God, or any other All-Powerful force. They don't care much about the semantics of Gurmat's different concept of Akaal Purakh. They will in all sincerity ask for proof of the existence of Akaal Purakh Vaheguru. This is where it all ends. I have three friends that were amritdharis and are now atheists. So this entire "they haven't read guru granth sahib and they haven't read sikh history" is false. The ones that become atheists are actually more inclined to make attempts at reading bani to find answers.

The real issue is that the present day is a very bad time for religion in general. People in general are far less inclined to belief in God and want tangible proof for existence. This is an era of disbelief where there is a huge causal relationship between education and atheism. Atheism is only going to increase because of people forsaking all religious belief in general and Sikhism is no exception. Remember, Guru Granth Sahib ji starts with Ik Oangkar. Herein lies the problem that many people leaving Sikhi have. They consider this to be an unsubstantiated assumption of the existence of God.

[dallysingh101]

The real issue is that the present day is a very bad time for religion in general. People in general are far less inclined to belief in God and want tangible proof for existence. This is an era of disbelief where there is a huge causal relationship between education and atheism.

You say that but the amount of people I've met who've converted to Islam over the years is massive. I think it is an illusion that religion is in decline. I think the opposite is true.

[Guest Jacfsing2]

You say that but the amount of people I've met who've converted to Islam over the years is massive. I think it is an illusion that religion is in decline. I think the opposite is true.

Religion is still losing the influence it once had, (there used to be laws in many Christian nations based on Christianity, like burning witches), even if a few people convert to Islam it doesn't mean they are religious, nor does it mean that they'll stay loyal to the faith for at least 5 years.

[dallysingh101]

Religion is still losing the influence it once had, (there used to be laws in many Christian nations based on Christianity, like burning witches), even if a few people convert to Islam it doesn't mean they are religious, nor does it mean that they'll stay loyal to the faith for at least 5 years.

I've seen loads over decades now, and they are still Muslims. So I know from direct experience that what you are saying is wrong.

Let's be frank, religion is only declining amongst whites in western Europe (and with some ethnics who live amongst and ape them with their secularist ways) - not elsewhere.

[jkvlondon]

I think dalsingh has hit the nail on the head!

Everyone is welcome in the Gurdwara - in my life experience nobody has ever been turned away (unless, they are being deliberately extremely disrespect towards Guru Ji or the Sangat. However, getting back to Dal Singh's point, although we never turn anyway away, what do we actually do to help someone who was NOT born into a Sikh family, into Sikhi. I mean really, when a white, black, or non-Sikh Asian person walks into a Gurdwara, maybe with even a view to join the Sikh faith, who would approach and encourage that person to keep on coming back to the Gurdwara?

If a Sikh Girl walked into a Mosque or Church on one of their busy occasions I bet you that somebody would probably pounce on them straight away. We would probably criticise them for this, but isn't that them just 'being' welcoming??

If a non-Sikh Asian girl, or black or white Muslim or Christian Girl walked into a Gurdwara, how long would it take for somebody to ask that girl if she was actually looking to become a Sikh? Some of this may just be down to Sikhs not trying to take people away from their religion. But if that's the case aren't we always going to be losing numbers?

Think about it, there's only 3 ways a religion can grow in numbers, these are:-

• either everybody gets married and has more than two children who stay in the faith (More Muslims are getting married and having more children than Sikhs)
• and Nobody leaves that religion (as you say in the posts above, Muslims condition their children not to leave their faith)
• Or thirdly, new members come into that religion (We keep saying that Muslims will go to the extent of tricking our children into their faith, whereas we won't even approach non-Sikhs to ask if they want to become a Sikh, even when they walk into a Gurdwara! - do any of you know anyone who has done that???)

Question is: what does the Shabad "Aap Japo Avra Naam Japavo" actually mean? Does it mean encourage everyone to do naam jap, including non-Sikhs…. But then when they develop a True Love for SGGS Ji as a result of Naam Jap are we then there to truly welcome them into Sikhi, even if they are a non-Sikh Asian, or black or white?? Or do we get them to develop a love for the naam and then leave them out in the 'cold' because they were never born a Sikh? Remember, the Muslims are taking full converts for non-Muslim Asians, and black and white people.

We accept people are leaving Sikhi - but more importantly how many new members are we welcoming into Sikhi as ‘full converts’?

My Dad took 'aap japo avra naam japavo' literally and he would encourage all and sundry to do naam jap ...in fact that is what my best friend remembers most about him , that one meeting and his earnest encouragement ...guess what ? she does naam jap when stressed and she has also become my support when I am low to remember naam ...and she is Caribbean Christian.... in front at his bhog that is what everyone remembered that he wanted everyone to enjoy naam . That was the last sentence he advised me in life 'chinta na kar , bus naam japia kar te sabh kuch teek hoga'

Sikhi is love ...love is acceptance... acceptance is unconditional ... so we have to learn to truly go beyond the covers of colour , race, creed and see the jot in all by embracing them warts and all and give them acceptance and love by sharing Guru ji's love/gurbani