Brainwashed

[Singh559]

Some of my elderly relatives (not going to say the relation), but they've been brainwashed by ram rahim choota sauda for years (maybe 20 years or so) and wouldn't believe anything against him. What would be the best way to convince these people that he is a very bad person and that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the only way to Waheguru and no pakhandi saads matter.

[JasSinghKhalsa]

I don't think you need to burn your time to convince them/relatives or anybody.

Religion / Faith is a very personal matter and I don't think one can and one should convince somebody in adopting XXX as Satguru and not YYY as Satguru.

If one himself is convinced on the path he/she is following, then don't go into any sort of "TARK/VITARK" - Argument on what is right / what is wrong. Else, there are 20 such Satguru's (Nirankari's/Radha Swami's - 2 of them). And this is going on for past 500 years. Wasn't there 20+ Gurus at the time of Guru Tegh Bahadur Jee's time.

When there is original, PIRACY Versions are also there - TRUE the Pirated versions come at a throw away price - TRUE it is easy to follow them as don't have any Or just stupid Terms and Conditions - TRUE they are cheap to buy and THEN IN THE END ALSO ACCEPT THE TRUTH that some body from our own relatives can go in for buying the Pirated versions ...

[Akal Warrior]

Some of my elderly relatives (not going to say the relation), but they've been brainwashed by ram rahim choota sauda for years (maybe 20 years or so) and wouldn't believe anything against him. What would be the best way to convince these people that he is a very bad person and that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the only way to Waheguru and no pakhandi saads matter.

Singh559 Ji. With all due respect, I dont agree with the last sentence in your post. We are becoming just like the hardcore fundamental Christians and Muslims when we start to claim that our path is "the only way". How do we know that Sikhi is the only path? Do we have any direct experience of God ourselves where he has told us this? I think being proud of our Dharm is good, but if we push it too far, it can turn into ego. We should respect all religions, and leave it up to God to decide who will be saved.

As for your relatives, I dont think there is anything you can do to convince them. You will only anger them. Imagine someone trying to convince you away from Sikhi. It will only cause anger and hate. Just live and let live.

[D Kaur]

It's difficult seeing our family members taking the wrong path, but as you have said, they have been on this path for the last 20 + years.

Chances are they wont know what true Sikhi is any more. But being your family, i can appreciate how you would not want to loose hope with them.

So my only advice to you is to be a good Sikh around them. Do your Nitnem and Vaheguru Simran, with the family. Do your Rehras Sahib with the family. Your continuing to be a good Sikh and hopefully they will look at you and maybe in time begin to adopt True Sikhi, as you have, as opposed to a cut down version.

I know of a few westeners who came into Sikhi, because they witnessed someone doing Vaheguru Simran / Path and wanted to feel as blissful and as content as that person.

Personally, i find there is nothing more peacefull than doing Vaheguru Simran within the Sangat.

Maybe your own Gursikhi Jeevan could help them.

On a personal note - i've always wanted to challenge a dera follower. I've always wanted to ask them to try True Sikhi - for 7 or 40 days of there life, follow full rehit. And see if they find a greater peace, if not they can go back to their beliefs. As they are your family you may be able to put this to them?

Although would i be open to someone asking me to follow there religion for 40 days just to try it? NO!

Inevitably if it is the greateast Punh to bring someone into Guru Granth Sahib Jee Maharaj's Charan, it is the greatest Punh to push someone away from Guru Granth Sahib Jee Maharaj. However we must not loose focus, as anything that distracts you from your own Gursikhi Jeevan is not desirable.

This weeks story of the week from Tapoban:

Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh & The Gurodom-Sants

By Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh

In Guru Kanshi Patar, June 1939

Some days ago, over a hundread or so "Sant Mahatamas" who were in to "Gurdom" came to meet me. Akhand Paath Sahib was going on. They wanted to come and bring me outside from the smagam and said, "we want to ask you some things."

I replied, "you too should listen to the Akhand Paath Sahib. You cannot hear anything higher or better from a asimple human being than you will by listening to the voice of Sri Guru Granth Sahib."

They then said, "No, we want to listen to words from your holy voice." I then said, "only by attaching our voice to the voice of Sri Guru Granth Sahib does a voice become holy. Here! If you must make my voice "holy" then i will start doing paath and join my voice with the paaras voice (of Guru Sahib)."

They kept pressuring me to leave the Akhand Paath Sahib area and come out to hear whet they had to say and also to speak to them. Eventually, they forced me to come outside the Akhand Path Sahib mandal.

I had them sit in the next room and said "hukam karo..." (give your orders...).

One Sant from the amongst them then addresses me and said, "Sachay Patshah! It is only this Daas's benti. What hukam can we give you?"

When the Sant said this unprincipled thing. I immediately scolded him and said that he had committed a very serious mistake that he had called me a simple human being "Sachay Patshah".

I said, "may MY ears burn and YOUR voice burn! Truly this is the punishment i have been given for having left the room where Akhand Paath Sahib Darabar of Sachay Patshah Sri Guru Granth Sahib was going on".

I said this and the entire group [of Sants] got upset and left. They did not listen to the Akhand Paath Sahib or benefit from the Akhand Kirtan which followed. Had i replied to them in a polite and flowery way and addresses them the same way they had addresses me, then they would of been very happy. But whose happiness did I want? Guru Sahib's or from those who go against Guru Sahib's principles, and wanted to take me away from my position as a Sikh and have be try to foolishly equal the position of the Guru?

[Only five]

Singh559 Ji. With all due respect, I dont agree with the last sentence in your post. We are becoming just like the hardcore fundamental Christians and Muslims when we start to claim that our path is "the only way". How do we know that Sikhi is the only path? Do we have any direct experience of God ourselves where he has told us this? I think being proud of our Dharm is good, but if we push it too far, it can turn into ego. We should respect all religions, and leave it up to God to decide who will be saved.

Akal Warrior read Sri Chaupai Sahib da paat. Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj did not accept any other path as a way to Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj. Satguru ji only accepted one path. So there is nothing wrong with what Singh said. Let's not make this thread about this topic. This has been discussed in the past.

[Singh559]

. What i was trying to say is realizing the truth while following these false deray will not help a person's jeevan because they worship the person like an idol and are brainwashed into doing a lot of hindufied rituals...

By Sikhi being the only path, i meant the teachings and it being universal

Thanks for the replies.

[S1ngh]

Singh559, you can try to keep their kids in touch with your sangat. As phaenji suggested, do follow sikhi as per rehat and naturally truth will spread from ur jeevan to ur family, relati es and friends.

You can also try giving out sikhi related books to such relatives like 'se khineya'...

[Singh559]

Singh559, you can try to keep their kids in touch with your sangat. As phaenji suggested, do follow sikhi as per rehat and naturally truth will spread from ur jeevan to ur family, relati es and friends.

You can also try giving out sikhi related books to such relatives like 'se khineya'...

Thanks, the kids don't follow at all. (They're from punjab btw)

I talked to my cousin about it and he told me he doesn't believe in the dera at all. They forced him to go a few times as a kid and now he and most of the family is against the dera after they realized that it's nothing but a cult after all the media coverage that went on a little while back. Old people are hard to convince though.

[Akal Warrior]

Akal Warrior read Sri Chaupai Sahib da paat. Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj did not accept any other path as a way to Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj. Satguru ji only accepted one path. So there is nothing wrong with what Singh said. Let's not make this thread about this topic. This has been discussed in the past.

I wont bother arguing with you guys. i know that you guys have obviously reached very high states of spirituality and are all-knowing. Thanks for enlightening me.

ps- Bani is very deep. Sometimes we have to read more than one or two lines to grasp the real message of Guru Sahib.

[Only five]

I wont bother arguing with you guys. i know that you guys have obviously reached very high states of spirituality and are all-knowing. Thanks for enlightening me.

ps- Bani is very deep. Sometimes we have to read more than one or two lines to grasp the real message of Guru Sahib.

More than one line is being read, but if you believe I am saying something wrong then share your wisdom with us. The problem here is not that you disagree, but are acting like a Brahmin who thinks he knows better than all and are unwilling to share with us, who you consider lower.

Your passing judgement on me to say I only read one or two lines is your arrogant head getting to you. I have a million questions for you if you really want to get into this, if not then don't act like some Brahmin that has the hidden knowledge and can't share it with the lower class people.