Maharaaj Parkash On A Beach?

[11Gurus1Jot]

Maharaj saroop is taken through streets at nagar kirtans, parkash has been done on mountain tops and carried through battle with respect. More then enough evidence has been given to show that there is nothing wrong with these practices. Once these threads keep going they go down a slippery slope and get nasty. Nobody is going to change there mind if they haven't so already, so close the thread.

Harpreet Singh Ji, I don't think anybody on here is saying that Maharaj Saroop can never be taken out. What some Singhs and Kaurs are saying is that Maharaj Saroop should never be taken out for 'our' convenience. As once people start taking Maharaaj out for 'their' convenience then that would definately be a 'slippery slope'. None of us would know where that would end, and how we would be able to control the beadbi, once we allowed the flood gates to be opened! I know that you too would be hurt if disrespect was shown to our Guru Ji.

[Soorbir_Singh]

I read someones post about Singhs taking Maharaj Saroop to war and stuff and I just wanted to let you know how the Singhs treated Maharaj Saroop when they were in Jang. During the time of the war obviously all religions that were present requested some kind of religious immunity and demanded some form of religious rights one of the things that was requested by all the religions was a seperate area to practice their religion, only they would be allowed in that area and it would be kept how they want it. Due to limited funds not every religion or culture was allowed to be given their own specific area and so the Generals said to the leaders of the different religionss come forward and present your religion to us and we will see who deserves it. All other faiths came in with their holy scriptures tucked under one arm and came into the room and sat down, whereas Guru Ki Laadli Fauj came in Tyar Bar Tyar with Panjh Singh and full Stakaar of Maharaj Saroop on their head, setup a Manji Sahib and then laid Maharaj on their throne and done Parkash of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj. It was no doubt that the Sikhs were given full Agaya to have their own area where they could keep Maharaj Saroop and do Parkash and do Seva oif Maharaj with full Rehat.

It was this Anakh that showed the world the love Sikhs have for their Guru but also why and how the Sikhs were such powerful and great warriors! Also im sure everyone here has seen the picture of the Singhs walking with Maharaj Saroop in the dessert with full Satkaar for Maharaj. What happened at this wedding was 100% WRONG! These Singhs took Maharaj Saroop everywhere they went because of their love for their Guru and the Faith they had in Maharaj. These people brought Maharaj Saroop to a intoxicated, kaljug infested beach to show off their "Sikhi" at their wedding. If you want to go to the beach after and do kirtan in happiness there is nothing wrong with that, but on that throne sits Dhan Dhan Dasam Patshah Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj and we have to think would Guru Gobind Singh Ji go to a beach with naked men and women running around to bless an Anand Karaj. There are bigger issues in the Panth, but nothing is bigger than the Satkaar of your Guru who has given you everything..

[11Gurus1Jot]

I have to say that it's very hard not to totally agree with Soorbir Singh Ji's last post above!

[Harpreet_Singh]

I read someones post about Singhs taking Maharaj Saroop to war and stuff and I just wanted to let you know how the Singhs treated Maharaj Saroop when they were in Jang. During the time of the war obviously all religions that were present requested some kind of religious immunity and demanded some form of religious rights one of the things that was requested by all the religions was a seperate area to practice their religion, only they would be allowed in that area and it would be kept how they want it. Due to limited funds not every religion or culture was allowed to be given their own specific area and so the Generals said to the leaders of the different religionss come forward and present your religion to us and we will see who deserves it. All other faiths came in with their holy scriptures tucked under one arm and came into the room and sat down, whereas Guru Ki Laadli Fauj came in Tyar Bar Tyar with Panjh Singh and full Stakaar of Maharaj Saroop on their head, setup a Manji Sahib and then laid Maharaj on their throne and done Parkash of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj. It was no doubt that the Sikhs were given full Agaya to have their own area where they could keep Maharaj Saroop and do Parkash and do Seva oif Maharaj with full Rehat.

It was this Anakh that showed the world the love Sikhs have for their Guru but also why and how the Sikhs were such powerful and great warriors! Also im sure everyone here has seen the picture of the Singhs walking with Maharaj Saroop in the dessert with full Satkaar for Maharaj. What happened at this wedding was 100% WRONG! These Singhs took Maharaj Saroop everywhere they went because of their love for their Guru and the Faith they had in Maharaj. These people brought Maharaj Saroop to a intoxicated, kaljug infested beach to show off their "Sikhi" at their wedding. If you want to go to the beach after and do kirtan in happiness there is nothing wrong with that, but on that throne sits Dhan Dhan Dasam Patshah Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj and we have to think would Guru Gobind Singh Ji go to a beach with naked men and women running around to bless an Anand Karaj. There are bigger issues in the Panth, but nothing is bigger than the Satkaar of your Guru who has given you everything..

Soorbir Singh, I'm sorry but where do you see naked people running around in that picture? And where is there anybody intoxicated? Other then maybe the intoxicating bliss of naam and sehaj. It seems like you are sensationlizing something that isn't factual at all.

Your argument is that because Maharaj saroop was carried with full respect it was ok to take it to the desert and other areas in which Singhs faught in WW2. (Which is realistically 100x more 'kaljug' infested then a beach) Another argument is that the wedding on that beach is for our convenience. But somehow, taking Guru Sahib in WW2 was a necessity? I'm sorry, but both of these are for convenience.

There is no evidence to suggest that the area was not cleaned, and proper maryada was not followed when taking Guru Sahib to the area in that picture. The same satkar shown by the Singhs in the WW2 seems to be shown in this picture as well. Until you can prove otherwise, I do not see how your argument holds any merit. When holding camps etc. do we not take Guru Sahib outside of the 'gurdwara' walls?

Also, on a side note. For those that say Guru Sahib should only be taken to places if it is not for our convenience, how do we know that there was no local gurdwara in this area? And a premi decided to have the wedding on the beach because there was more space and no access to a local gurdwara. Or for the simple fact that a local gurdwara might refuse to let them to do kirtan or lavaan etc. and would want the local ragi jatha to perform it. These are questions you cannot answer from a picture. Bottom line to me is that from simply one picture it seems the area was cleaned and full satkaar was given. So there should be no issues.

[pirate singh]

Harpreet

1) Have u ever been to a beach?

2) If u have, u would knw that at some point there would have been half naked ppl smoking, drinking & doing other things.

3) Even if the place was cleaned up, would it be any different to going to a club/hall, cleaning it up etc, doing Maharaj Parkash and getting a married there? Would that be acceptable?

4) If there was no local Gurdwara in the area, where did they get Maharaj Saroop from?

5) If there was no local Gurdwara in the area, why couldn't they get married at home or wherever Maharaj Saroop was brought from.

Answer: Simples...It was all for show.

PS: These ppl were getting married, not going into jang. This is very different from the Singhs in WW2. It wasn't very 'convenient' for them to go to war on behalf of countries they had never seen. You don't take Maharaj with full Satkaar for 'convenience' when you know you're most probably going to die, it's out of Love, and for taking Hukamnama, yes it is a necessity. Have a bit of respect for the Singhs who gave there lives.

[Soorbir_Singh]

The reason why I was comparing this "wedding" with the Singhs in the World War was because these Singhs didn't just carry Maharaj Saroop where they went as a convenience but rather every day they would do Maharaj Parkash so to get Maharaj's blessings when they would go out into battle. They did this out of love and faith in their Guru. The purpose of this wedding was to show the world and other people that we are so "religious" "peaceful" and "loving" people. Yes I agree that from the picture it looks like there is bliss and Sehaj, purely because Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj is present, if Maharaj is anywhere it will be a blissful and amazing place. But that does not mean that we can do as we please when it comes to Satkaar of Maharaj. One Singh mentioned what if the sand had blown or water had splashed on Maharajs Angs? Imagine if sand blew into the eyes of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj because you wanted to have a nice "wedding" do you think it is a justified reason to hurt your Guru? As a Panth we will stand against any Beadbi of Sri Guru Granth Sahib regardless of who it is and in what situation.

[buddasingh]

What about when Sikh soldiers took Maharaj with them during war/conflict? How about a Nagar Kirtan? Here in the UK a Nagar Kirtan travels through areas where all sorts of things take place, people smoke on the streets etc. Isn't this about applying common sense to a situation? I'm not looking for an argument but merely throwing some scenarios into the mix.

And to throw more into the mix, i see some of the people in our gurudwaras and i wonder if the beach is a place more worthy of guruji's presence. The progressive sangat on this forum is representative of a very very small percentage of the Sikh community. Not really offering an opinion just food for thought at the irony of the debate when we have thugs and simpletons rampant within india and the diaspora community who are leaders in every aspect of life in sikh society. Our society looks upto them and our entire value system becomes thuggish. There are large segments of 'sikh' communities that are daily frauds. I am not sure if guruji should be removed from so called sangat or the so called sangat should be removed from guruji. Of course neither, but it's a thought to make a point.

It's you and I who have let guruji down with our apathy toward sikh society. If we can see the thuggery, then it is our responsibility to throw as much loving activism into the mix as we possibly can. We should come to these forums to share thoughts, but the seva is required on the street. That will go a long ways in sorting out how we collectively show respect for granth and panth.

[VanHelsingh]

The death knell of modern religious practices was when business (i.e. money-making) was allowed to overtake the spiritual.

Of course, religious institutions cannot run on thin air (although some might argue they could in theory if the sangat was single-minded and devoted to the nth degree), the system we have now is unsustainable and damaging for the future.