Jkd, Wing Chun Or Eagle Claw?

[Inqlabi 1]

"waste ur money and Time on these . MMA is best for street fight . And i will advice u to first learn Boxing and wrestling then MMA all these chao mao looks good but are not effective"

Bhai Sahib Ji. How many martial arts have you actually learnt or fought against? How many street fights have you had, what qualifies you to make such an irresponsible and ignorant statement? It's exacly this sort of irrational teenage mentality that spoils Sikh forums and pushes away any intellgient people who actually may have something worth sharing.

If you want to see the effectieness of any of these martial arts and many many more, I would be more than happy to help you make acquaitance with practitioners.

Boxing is very good, and extremely effective on the street if one has maastered it, but how many people actually become good boxers. Look at the professional arena and your question is answered, There are actually street styles of boxing taught in the Phillipines (where modern boxing movements originate from- via the Navy that was located there during USAs short bid for dominance). The twisting ducking, uppercutting and downward attacking motions are all derived from blade fighting techniques. Prior to the Filipino US innovation in boxing, boxing was a very linear, direct fighting art (see pics of the early Jewish and Irish communities in London fighitng for respect on the streets in gentlemanly bare knuckle boutsat the turn of the last century). Boxing sadly fails against Blades for obvious reasons - but is great as an open hand style (if mastered).

MMA is a sport. Yes it can be used in the street to good effective - against one unarmed person, but the training is tuned towards one to one and rules i.e. you can't rip someone throat out, you can't burst their eyeballs, you can't snap their joints, you can't apply nerve attacks etc etc etc. What you practice is what you do. It is also not designed for multiples - largley because it encourages grappling (commitment to one person) so do the maths, what would the 2nd, 3rd person be doing whilst you are gettign the 1st in an arm bar...? Lastly, it is not designed for weapon attacks.

This takes nothing away from MMA or Boxing, both teach excellent skills like judging distance, closing the gap, speed, strength, striking/controlling methods etc etc, but the objective is rule bound. If you want to compete, then excellent, if you want to learn how to defend yourself against extreme violence, which more than likely will include smashed bottles, knives even swrods/basebal bats, then you are more likely to have more success in a combat art.

Eagle claw, Wing chun etc are battlefield skill, designed to make a quick kill or permanent disability, if learnt fully/coorectly, these arts still provide the same abilities.

Eskrima in its many forms is unique in the martial arts of the world, because it is the only one which is still applied daily on the street. Visit Phillipines and you will understand what I mean. Until very recently, death matches or live challenegs with sticks or bladeswere common place, they still happen to much lesser extent today. These arts are live/real, proven on the street (even now).

This isn't an attack on any art or any practitioner, but when talking on public forums, esp Sikh ones, people should learn to be responsible as youngters get influenced. Kindly don't compare apples with pears.

There are no rule or referees on the street. Whatever you practice is what manifests (intentions).

Kaka ji these Dragon countries techniques are good for their people as they have short and flexible body then us . In fight u need power in ur fist which a boxer can have . I still say boxing and wrestling moves are more effective . Other then these krav Marga is also good option.

I have seen Mui thai boxers beating many top martial artists .

Mui Thai is must learn as include use of kicks and elbows.

[Khaalis 36]

If you have time, research into what Chinese fighting arts influenced Nigel Bens and Chris Eubanks boxing (both were boxing legends). The arts they used, which you will never have heard of, were killing arts using the fist, and only very watered version were used by these 2 boxers. Also look up what happened to their opponents (hospitalisation). You obviously do not about southern Chinese martial arts (Chinese Boxing). There are many closed door chinese systems that the mainstream have never heard of - which some top ex-European Muay Thai/Kickboxing champs have discovered and devoted their life to learning (due to the want of inheriting the art of death, rather than sport).

You are talking about sports again, Muay Thai. If you want to learn about deadly arts - look up its evolving battlefield predecessors - Muay Boran, Muay Chaya and Bokator (also closed door systems to the west). I am lucky enough to have made friends with and learnt some tips from the few rare practitioners outside of the Goldern Triangle.

I've already spoken about Krav.

Empty opinions mean nothing - you obvioulsy have little to no experience regarding the fighting arts, otherwise you wouldn't make such big rash statements/generalisations.

If you ever actually feel the urge to learn something about 'real' fighting arts, contact me - you are more than welcome to come to my home and discuss over a cup of tea, as well as see some evidence if you felt inclined.

God Bless.

[Inqlabi 1]

If you have time, research into what Chinese fighting arts influenced Nigel Bens and Chris Eubanks boxing (both were boxing legends). The arts they used, which you will never have heard of, were killing arts using the fist, and only very watered version were used by these 2 boxers. Also look up what happened to their opponents (hospitalisation). You obviously do not about southern Chinese martial arts (Chinese Boxing). There are many closed door chinese systems that the mainstream have never heard of - which some top ex-European Muay Thai/Kickboxing champs have discovered and devoted their life to learning (due to the want of inheriting the art of death, rather than sport).

You are talking about sports again, Muay Thai. If you want to learn about deadly arts - look up its evolving battlefield predecessors - Muay Boran, Muay Chaya and Bokator (also closed door systems to the west). I am lucky enough to have made friends with and learnt some tips from the few rare practitioners outside of the Goldern Triangle.

I've already spoken about Krav.

Empty opinions mean nothing - you obvioulsy have little to no experience regarding the fighting arts, otherwise you wouldn't make such big rash statements/generalisations.

If you ever actually feel the urge to learn something about 'real' fighting arts, contact me - you are more than welcome to come to my home and discuss over a cup of tea, as well as see some evidence if you felt inclined.

God Bless.

I will do more resarch on Chinese Boxing and will get back to you.

[1000 3]

Interesting thread..a bit off topic but good info ..thanks for those inputting.

[HSD1 21]

If you have time, research into what Chinese fighting arts influenced Nigel Bens and Chris Eubanks boxing (both were boxing legends). The arts they used, which you will never have heard of, were killing arts using the fist, and only very watered version were used by these 2 boxers. Also look up what happened to their opponents (hospitalisation). You obviously do not about southern Chinese martial arts (Chinese Boxing). There are many closed door chinese systems that the mainstream have never heard of - which some top ex-European Muay Thai/Kickboxing champs have discovered and devoted their life to learning (due to the want of inheriting the art of death, rather than sport).

Are you referring to Sanshou?

[Khaalis 36]

Sanshou is a sport, same as Yaw Yan in the Phillipines and Kick Boxing/Muay Thai in Thailand. These arts can still be effective on the street, but are not practiced to main or kill. Only to score points. The mother arts from which these are derived are the 'combat' arts.

Chinese Boxing is a generic term which relates to the plethora of Southern Chinese 'fist' based arts, of which Wing Chun (Ip-Man, Shaolin), Various styles of Praying Mantis i.e. 7 star, Bamboo Forest, Chow Gar etc are just a few of the popular known ones. There others which are less known and in my opinion far more dangerous. Where the aforementioned systems are now taught openly by thousands around the world (meaning a top teacher with complete knowledge is hard to find), the closed door system are still secretive and not taught to the west (with a few exceptions). They still practice underground bare knuckle no holds bar fights to test their skills against different systems.

[Inqlabi 1]

Can u post videos of those Martial Arts which are unknown to world but are most dangerous.

[ekraj 11]

wjkk wjkf.

Bacially I have the option of learning one of the following martial arts: Jeet kune Do, Wing Chun or Eagle Claw Kung Fu...

I was trying to weigh up which is best out of these and would probably be the most effective in real life situation on the street?

If the sangat practices any of these or has any idea what I should go for, then please let me know. Thanks.

Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa Vaheguru ji ki Fat-heh

Here's my Bio. I've practice Wing Chun for 16 years, with James Sinclair: & thai boxing, also eskrima (weapons) and Brazilian jujitsu coming up to 11 years. I also had a look at kalaripayat with Paul Whitrod and back in India with the biggest Kalaripayat organisation in Kerala. I also have trained with Sifu Abide (Birmingham) + Sifu Zab (Walsall) for over 10 years, until I left for Uni, hence I was kid. Not practising now.

Brazilian Jujitsu- Brings out the Punjabi in me, I train in London, last 11 years, continuing practising (playing) as it's a good sport.

I did Silat (seminars & instructors course) with Richard Debordes (google him), and attended seminars with Maul Mornie and Steve Benitez. (Steve Benitez is missing, he close up and moved, last I heard he's in Indonesia, might be back in the UK.

I also popped in and out of Ninjitsu, as my friend teaches at Birmingham University.

All are very good.

I also know Sardar Singh Khalsa (teaches WC + JKD) not personally, met him at a martial arts show, a few months ago. Nice bloke. Unlike Hari Singh, Sadar Singh, when I said fateh he replied in kind. Sardar Singh Khalsa also respect what Niddar Singh has achieved and is no way hostile towards him. If you have the chance go and try out his class.

On the topic of Hari Singh, I've heard he spent years doing eagle claw. Don't know if he's any good. He and his crew does the dragon dance at the Birmingham martial arts show. I have beaten up one or two of his boys that came down to my Wing Chun class ages ago in Birmingham. This is before I started shastar vidya. To me Harry Singh has a problem with Niddar Singh I don't know why and really don't care. But how rude is it to say fateh to someone and they don't respond. I expected better from the guy. Even if your dushman says Fateh you respond in kind. Also 19 year old kid came to the akara, he showed us a nice looking eagle claw form that Hari taught him, then we asked questions, basically the chinese would say his form is empty, i.e. lacks knowledge of application. Then Gurudev showed eagle pentra , with application wow.

In 2004 my attention turned to Shastar Vidya after picking up martial arts illustrated. Interview was from Krishna Godhania, eskrima guy based in Warwick. He's a nice guy look him up, I think he might also teach in Birmingham.

To me if you live in around Birmingham, there is only one place to train that's with Niddar Singh. Honestly the guy is world class. He recently did a seminar with Pat O'Malley, go to any martial arts forum on kali and SE Asian arts, you would know what a big name Pat is. Pat heads up Rapid Arnis, and is also developing programs for Us law enforcement.

There are also people trying to set up a seminar with Pat, Maul Mornie and Niddar Singh.

The martial arts you mentioned and I mentioned above are all good. But shastar vidya is our own art. You could say Gatka is our own art, but there's no science behide it, real martial artist will take the mick. Unless your doing Real Gatka, ask Genius about that. Gatka is actually a Islamic sword dance, I think you can utube it. I spent over 2 decades (started young) can say without any hesitation that Shastar Vidya is not a art that Niddar Singh made up. It's impossible.

Shastar Vidya covers all bases that all modern arts cover:

Ground fighting

stand up grappling

striking

pressure point

weapons

Stuff that normally is not covered in other arts:

Battle formation

Fighting as a group

Swordsmanship (Niddar Singh, truly is one of the last classical swordsmen teaching openly. There are others but they either don't teach or they got partial knowledge.)

Group attack

So would you like to start shastar vidya? If your a singh, you will learn to use your kara, and how kesh and dastar can be used as a weapon.

I see you going to Aston University. There are two singh's at the Birmingham Akara who got 1st class in pharmacy, and there are many professionals at the Akara. This comment is not here or there. But it shows the calibre of the people you will be training with. If you talk to gadda you will not get anywhere, except a lot of rubbish about different styles. If your a singh you need to think how can my kesh, and how your roop as a singh be used in combat. You will not get that in any art except for shastar vidya. You sound like an intelligent guy, think about it, shastar vidya evolved for people who wear a Dastar and have beards.

I ask again,

Would you like to start shastar vidya?

Or there is a singh who teaches classical sikh martial yoga in handsworth leisure centre on Mondays I think. Very good for fitness.

Jai Hind.

[Kaljug Singh 46]

I'm getting immensely tired of all these martial arts threads turning into advertisements for Nidar Singh, especially when they are mostly by the same person posting with different usernames - ekaraj, maharaj, and now shah.

If the mods are aware that these are the same person, posting the same things fron multiple accounts in an attempt to mislead the Sangat, why have you not deleted them and banned their IP addresses?

K.

[Guru_Da_Chella 19]

The martial arts you mentioned and I mentioned above are all good. But shastar vidya is our own art. You could say Gatka is our own art, but there's no science behide it, real martial artist will take the mick. Unless your doing Real Gatka, ask Genius about that. Gatka is actually a Islamic sword dance, I think you can utube it. I spent over 2 decades (started young) can say without any hesitation that Shastar Vidya is not a art that Niddar Singh made up. It's impossible.

yes it was originally an islamic dance called khutka from which the term gatka came.

I'm getting immensely tired of all these martial arts threads turning into advertisements for Nidar Singh, especially when they are mostly by the same person posting with different usernames - ekaraj, maharaj, and now shah.

If the mods are aware that these are the same person, posting the same things fron multiple accounts in an attempt to mislead the Sangat, why have you not deleted them and banned their IP addresses?

K.

oh dear, you do not like the akali battlefield arts, have you ever been to the akharas to have a look at what goes on or just hearsay?

[Kaljug Singh 46]

yes it was originally an islamic dance called khutka from which the term gatka came.

oh dear, you do not like the akali battlefield arts, have you ever been to the akharas to have a look at what goes on or just hearsay?

Congratulations on derailing another thread which had nothing to do with Niddar Singh with more Niddarite propaganda. I hope Niddar Singh is paying you well for your shameless advertising. If Niddar's chelay had any true belief in the utility of shastar vidiya, they would not feel a need to engage in such propaganda, and the same person would not to be posting from multiple accounts about its supposed effectiveness.

While I believe most of Niddar Singh's claims that his art is an Akali Singh art is unsubstantiated nonsense, I had not made my mind up on the usefulness of it. However, given the cult-like mentality of his followers, and the lack of respect they show posters on this forum, I think I'll pass on attending any of his lessons.

K.

[ekraj 11]

Congratulations on derailing another thread which had nothing to do with Niddar Singh with more Niddarite propaganda. I hope Niddar Singh is paying you well for your shameless advertising. If Niddar's chelay had any true belief in the utility of shastar vidiya, they would not feel a need to engage in such propaganda, and the same person would not to be posting from multiple accounts about its supposed effectiveness.

While I believe most of Niddar Singh's claims that his art is an Akali Singh art is unsubstantiated nonsense, I had not made my mind up on the usefulness of it. However, given the cult-like mentality of his followers, and the lack of respect they show posters on this forum, I think I'll pass on attending any of his lessons.

K.

Bro, the guy who posted the thread goes to Aston university, hence Birmingham. Hence what I post is greatly relveant. Exceptionally one of the art Wing Chun I practised for over 10 years with the Uk wingchun association. HQ is based in jewelery quarters and they run good classes at Birmingham Uni,

Also Brother if you read my post I mention more than four other martial arts teacher, that I know or have trained directly with in Birmingham. I have spent more than 15 years in Birmingham and know the place, expecially the martial arts community. Not to be arrogant I do consider myself to be a seaoned martial arts, even b4 shastar vidya came down the line. When you say it unsubstantiated nonsense, I have written out the full lineage of the akara in the thread for linages please take a look. No other singh or anyone has posted to the request of that singh.

Cult-like mentality of his followers, "pot calling the kettle black". It's not gatka, where one singh told me their are 10 levels, at level 10 you can start training with real weapons, learn to ride a horse. However to get to level 10 you have to take Amrit lol. There is no cult like mentality, I'm a mona I like the historical side of what Niddar Singh says, but I train with him because hes a exceptional martial artist. Also theres no one who teaches classical sword fight as he does. All other arts tend to do kata (forms) or drill techniques like robots.

If want to discuss martial arts I train at the london akara, come down. I think I have answered all your questions, no please answer mine:

1)So what do you base your conclusions on about Niddar Singh? It's seems a lot of singhs have a problem with shastar vidya, even when top martial artist not just from UK but globally rate it. Also many museums such the V & A in london and many more hold Niddar Singh to be a expert in the field.

2) So what is your expertises in martial arts and sikh history?

3) So how many years have you been training in the martial arts?

When you talk about lack of repect we show, please read the posts on this forum, expecially yours.

Will be very interested to see your replies to my 3 questions.

[Kaljug Singh 46]

Bro, the guy who posted the thread goes to Aston university, hence Birmingham. Hence what I post is greatly relveant. Exceptionally one of the art Wing Chun I practised for over 10 years with the Uk wingchun association. HQ is based in jewelery quarters and they run good classes at Birmingham Uni,

Also Brother if you read my post I mention more than four other martial arts teacher, that I know or have trained directly with in Birmingham. I have spent more than 15 years in Birmingham and know the place, expecially the martial arts community. Not to be arrogant I do consider myself to be a seaoned martial arts, even b4 shastar vidya came down the line. When you say it unsubstantiated nonsense, I have written out the full lineage of the akara in the thread for linages please take a look. No other singh or anyone has posted to the request of that singh.

Cult-like mentality of his followers, "pot calling the kettle black". It's not gatka, where one singh told me their are 10 levels, at level 10 you can start training with real weapons, learn to ride a horse. However to get to level 10 you have to take Amrit lol. There is no cult like mentality, I'm a mona I like the historical side of what Niddar Singh says, but I train with him because hes a exceptional martial artist. Also theres no one who teaches classical sword fight as he does. All other arts tend to do kata (forms) or drill techniques like robots.

If want to discuss martial arts I train at the london akara, come down. I think I have answered all your questions, no please answer mine:

1)So what do you base your conclusions on about Niddar Singh? It's seems a lot of singhs have a problem with shastar vidya, even when top martial artist not just from UK but globally rate it. Also many museums such the V & A in london and many more hold Niddar Singh to be a expert in the field.

2) So what is your expertises in martial arts and sikh history?

3) So how many years have you been training in the martial arts?

When you talk about lack of repect we show, please read the posts on this forum, expecially yours.

Will be very interested to see your replies to my 3 questions.

Nope, this is just another means of advertising for Niddar Singh. Where does the OP ask about shastar vidiya? If he is from Brum, I am sure he knows about Niddar, yet his post asks nothing about shastar vidiya.

You posted pretty much exactly the same thing as your 1st post under the username maharaj in the thread on martial arts in the closed section. Please don't attempt to deny it. Your writing style is the same, your claims about your training are the same, you even made another account in the name shah when "maharaj" has aknowledged his name as being Arjuna Shah, lol.

You've clearly joined the forum with multiple accounts to advertise your master. This kind of deception is one of the examples of cult-like behaviour from nidar's chelay that I am talking about. It's also incredsibly disrespectful to the members of this forum who have seen fit to put you on quality control for your previous posts.

The thing is, nidar may have a useful art (albeit likely made up - if it is such an ancient art, why did he change its name sevewral times after he put up his website?), but it's this kind of disgusting behaviour from his students that will mean that I never attend any of his lessons.

My martial lineage is none of your concern, and my knowledge of Sikh history and Sikh scripture is strong enough to know that Nidar's so-called lineage cannot be substantiated and that his website is full of errors or outright lies in an attempt to portray Sikhi as a subset of hinduism.

K.

[Guru_Da_Chella 19]

Congratulations on derailing another thread which had nothing to do with Niddar Singh with more Niddarite propaganda. I hope Niddar Singh is paying you well for your shameless advertising. If Niddar's chelay had any true belief in the utility of shastar vidiya, they would not feel a need to engage in such propaganda, and the same person would not to be posting from multiple accounts about its supposed effectiveness.

While I believe most of Niddar Singh's claims that his art is an Akali Singh art is unsubstantiated nonsense, I had not made my mind up on the usefulness of it. However, given the cult-like mentality of his followers, and the lack of respect they show posters on this forum, I think I'll pass on attending any of his lessons.

K.

excuses excuses *yaaaawn*

[Guru_Da_Chella 19]

I hope u dont want all of us to join Nidar Sanatani .

I don't care, boxing stances and moves are against khalsa style marital arts ie shastar vidiya....