Darshan Of Hanuman Ji To Gursikhs

[harsharan000]

Thank you for that well written piece. Anyway lets now put experiences aside; as to have an experience there must be an object to be subjective of. You talk about elevating our consciousness, let me ask you to what level can you rise your consciousness to become fully objective?

In my humble opinion: , the level to elevate our consciousness is that of Satnam.

Then do experiences matter and can they be taken as absolute also to what level is consciousness perceived as truth?

Again, the level as described by the Gurus, Satnam

Or let's put it to simply when you are having experiences what was there that remained permanent and did not change? (As experiences are always changing)

Sorry to tell you once more, again Satnam. Because He is unchangeable, that is why He is sat or truth, because He is eternal and unchangeable. He is beyond mind, or Kal. He is Karta Purukh, He is the doer of everything. He is Ajoonee, He is neither born nor dies like other creatures, He is beyond Parlay and Mahaparlay, He is Nirbav and Nirver, He is fearless and thus without any enemy, He is realized as per Gurparsad, only with the grace of the Guru. Nobody´s experience can be a base or a platform of beleif for others, it is for each individual. We as students when we are in school, we faithfully follow the teachings of what we are taught, we are then limited. But if we apply ourselves diligently in the studies and hardwork, we may one day reach the level of those teachers. That is the same in spirituality, we have to do abyaas to gain purity, shed our past impressions of karmas and sanskaras or call it agyanta, and merge through a technique in that eternal truth known as Satnam.

But if we do not apply and study hard, and just ask the professor or other students questions of all sorts.... hardly shall we gain any improvement and achieve anything in life. Spirituality is by applying ourselves to it through some sort of sadhna, diksha, or technique.... not by mere theoritical studies. If that was the case, Ravan was a scholar, and had mastered the vedas, but that did not stop him from being a rascal and do inmoral acts freely. On the other side by the sacred practice of Nam Simram, one sheds off all impurities, gains real knowledge, and thus speeds it progress towards it´s goal, in the vehicle of Shabad or Nam, towards Satnam.

Those who consume drugs, though taken in same amount and at the same time, have different experiences. But those who apply to Nam, all will say the same things experienced, that is why our Gurus, or Kabir Sahib, Sant Nam Dev, Guru Ravi Das, Paltu Sahib... all talk of that same reality in the same terms, though they are from different backgrounds and locations.

Because that reality is only one, whether you are a hindu, a sikh, an isaee or a muslim. If you try to find that reality ouside, one will be lost in diversity and discussions; but if we go and see it inside, it will be same for all. That is why it is said in the Bani: Anter Jot, Niranter Bani, Sachay Sahib Siu Liv Lae. In this way, it is the same for all, as taught by our beloved Gurus.

[sunny_love_kirtan]

one more thing and its really practical and experienced since this topic started :

ਮੂਰਖੈ ਨਾਲਿ ਨ ਲੁਝੀਐ ॥੧੯॥

Don't argue with fools. ||19||

[singh154]

I'm not trying to teach you anything nor show off any knowledge to you and I hope you are not comparing me to ravan . You asked and posted something and I wanted to know further. I'm just doing veechar with you. But the responses you gave were all Satnam. Yes that is the ultimate truth. But merely saying satnam to everything I ask doesn't really benefit the convo in giving an understandable approach. You keep mentioning the end outcome (satnam) but please enlighten me on the initial stages of awakening?

Anway you said he is beyond mind, to what extent (I know he can't be described in words) but why can't the mind perceive him?

Surely conscious is not the truth, there must be something that is prior to consciousness? (so how can the consciousness know satnam)

Also in your previous posts you talk about spirtual realms that are experienced by the sukhsham sareer. How would you know if you have passed the spirtual realms?

[harsharan000]

I'm not trying to teach you anything nor show off any knowledge to you and I hope you are not comparing me to ravan . You asked and posted something and I wanted to know further. I'm just doing veechar with you. But the responses you gave were all Satnam. Yes that is the ultimate truth. But merely saying satnam to everything I ask doesn't really benefit the convo in giving an understandable approach. You keep mentioning the end outcome (satnam) but please enlighten me on the initial stages of awakening?

Anway you said he is beyond mind, to what extent (I know he can't be described in words) but why can't the mind perceive him?

Surely conscious is not the truth, there must be something that is prior to consciousness? (so how can the consciousness know satnam)

Also in your previous posts you talk about spirtual realms that are experienced by the sukhsham sareer. How would you know if you have passed the spirtual realms?

First of all, just relax. I can see you had some hot arguments with some brother, but just relax, otherwise because of your mind´s state which is agitated, you may not grasp the full contents.

Secondly, I am no authority to convince you or anybody. Of course you may have your way of thinking,which is quite respectable... so carry on, and be open to learn, as life is a never ending process of learning, and the same applies to me and everybody. Anybody saying the contrary would be called arrogant. Guru Nanak was the embodiment of true gyan, and He called Himself : lalla golla... Humility is the sign of the real wise ones....the rest are justt parrots or charlatans...no matter howsoever they are scholars or with the degree of doctorates in any field or better said in thelogy.

I have never compared you to Ravan... i don`t even know how you managed to think even so....you see, that is why I told you in the beginig to cool down. You may converse with me in a friendly manner, and I will be glad to answer you to the best of my capabilities, but I shall never try to convince, that is upon you to see how confortable you are with them. And that is because, if it is not written in one´s destiny to believe Him, no matter how much one may try to convince somebody, it will just not go inside his/her capacity of understanding and beleiving.

Guru Ram Das´s elder son had Wahiguru as his father and Guru Arjun Dev as , also the swarup of the same Wahiguru as brother , and was surrounded at all times in a spiritual atmosphere, having their physicall darshan.... but even then,he was wicked. So you see, things although clear, are not so easy to be understood by everybody, as each and everyone have different levels of consciousness, different backgrounds, different past karmas and sanskaras. It is not the physicall proximity or nearness to any embodiment of truth which can change one, if again, it is not written in it`s forehead. It was the fruit of his(Prithvi Chand) past good karmas, for which he was born in a Guru ghar..... because even the physicall darshan of the Guru can not be had just like that, it is all His will, His bhaana... it is not at all in the jeevas hands. All of our beloved Gurus have stressed, that ruhaniyat is not something to be discussed, it is to be realized, to be experienced. And that is only possible in one way, applying ourselves to it, through a jugtee, a method...you may call it Nam Simran.

As per your question , to why He can not be perceived by the mind? That is because, the mind works with and through the senses, it is limited within their four walls. If that was the case, forget God, what about our souls, nobody has seen it though all believe in them, forget even souls, tell me about the so called mind, everybody talks about it, but if you break somebody´s head, will you find the mind there? You will only see, bones, brains and some other organs contained there, So you see, we do not know much about all these things, which are beyond the reach of senses and mind. For that you have to see what the spiritual teachers have to say about these matters, compare their teachings if you are not totally convinced with one, and see in what areas they are common or where they differ... it all depends on each one`s comfort level. As from what I have known from their teachings,is that our souls are covered with 3 more bodies, which are the physicall, the astral and the causal, and then covered with agyanta, with mind and karmas .... so you see, the soul is imprisoned by all these things and has lost her identity, her nature. And all this is just, because the creation has to go on, the soul apart from all these things mentioned previously, is a prisoner in the creation of Kal, he has cunningly made it in sucha a way, that the soul by itself can never escape. On the other side, the mercifull Wahiguru, knows the suffering state of His souls, on how they are trapped and imprisoned in this mayavi creation, under the domain of Kal. He knows He is invisible to us. So He comes to our human level, to make us understand the reality, to make us recover our origin, we have been wandering since inmemorial times, to infuse His love and devotion for Himself in us, and reveal us the secrets of Nam or Shabad, like Guru Nanak, and the sucessors, or Kabir Sahib, Guru Ravi Das, Sant Nam Dev, Paltu Sahib ... And through the practice and abyaas of Nam Simran, we can cut all our bonds, overpower the mind and Kal, and return safely to Sach Khand. Because, that Nam or Shabad is the very essence of Wahiguru, there is no difference.

As Guru Nanak has said:

Shabade dharti shabade akash,

shabade shabd hoa parkash

sagli dharti shabad ke paache

Nanak, Shabad ghate ghat achay

Which means:

Shabd createth the eatrh, Shabad createth the sky, from Shabad cometh all light. The whole world reseth on Shabad, O Nanak, and this Shabadis present in all human beings.

So you see, this power known as God, Wahiguru, Satnam, is the same as Shabad or Nam, and it is this very power, this energy or level of consciousness, which is our true nature also, where we departed one day, and it it is in this very Shabad, where we have to merge ourselves and become one with it, just like a drop merges in the ocean and becomes one with it.

As you can see from what is written above, it is just natural to come to the conclusion, that there is nothing beyond Satnam, which is the first and ultimate reality... so obviously, only Satnam, are the answers you are going to get from me, because that is only what I know and I have.

You are free to disagree and find your answers in different directions, but from my side you will get, only Satnam.

Jus as it is said: one day a handfull of salt wanted to know the depth and inmensity of the ocean... once it went there to expereice this, it got dissolved and became one with the ocean. In our case also, Wahiguru can not be described, it is better to experience and realize Him, by merging ourselves in Him.

[mohinder pal]

ਹਣਵੰਤੁ ਜਾਗੈ ਧਰਿ ਲੰਕੂਰੁ ॥

हणवंतु जागै धरि लंकूरु ॥

Haṇvanṯ jāgai ḏẖar lankūr.

Hanuman with his tail is awake and aware.

ਸੰਕਰੁ ॥

संकरु जागै चरन सेव ॥

Sankar jāgai cẖaran sev.

Shiva is awake, serving at the Lord's Feet.

ਕਲਿ ॥੨॥

कलि जागे नामा जैदेव ॥२॥

Kal jāge nāmā Jaiḏev. ||2||

Naam Dayv and Jai Dayv are awake in this Dark Age of Kali Yuga. ||2||

ਜਾਗਤ ॥

जागत सोवत बहु प्रकार ॥

Jāgaṯ sovaṯ baho parkār.

There are many ways of being awake, and sleeping.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ॥

गुरमुखि जागै सोई सारु ॥

Gurmukẖ jāgai so▫ī sār.

To be awake as Gurmukh is the most excellent way.

ਇਸੁ ॥

इसु देही के अधिक काम ॥

Is ḏehī ke aḏẖik kām.

The most sublime of all the actions of this body,

<a class="dict" href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%BF">ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਭਜਿ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ॥੩॥੨॥

कहि कबीर भजि राम नाम ॥३॥२॥

Kahi Kabīr bẖaj rām nām. ||3||2||

says Kabeer, is to meditate and vibrate on the Lord's Name. ||3||2||

[DustOfTheSaintsFeet]

I've had many darshans of Krishna and His realm, the first one I had when I didn't even do naam simran, he saved me from a hell I was getting dragged to...

The thing is these darshans may come, but god really is All Around, in the Saint and in the Sinner. When one contemplates this, the time comes to detach and go for the Truth in all it's glory- deep into the Nothingness where the Truth is actually found, beyond light, sound and form- The primal silence.

Nirvair(and niroboa is One vision of True Love(a Fearless True love). It's not, love one vision but not the other, or love one person and love the other less. The devil literally is god himself, so is the rapist. How do we love a rapist as much as we love our own parents? That is the riddle the gurmukh must contemplate and the obstacle we must overcome. How do we remain psychologically sound when our parents and loved ones die around us, or when it comes our turn to go?

Truth is not about visions(Maya illusion/false imagery) God created all from the void and we'll go back to where we were created(the void)- there is no imagery there, no sound, touch, sight- everything limited to these senses is false, absolutely everything. When one realises this physically, the truth is known and the attachments(darkness, 1 of the 5 thieves, all attchment to imagery in a sin) we hold are conquered.

One may say they love to gaze upon the image of the guru, this is because he is Self realised and emnates the Truth, but darshan of him is not the end for we must also go and discover the very same thing He discovered. The jivan mukht knows that the Truth resides in the silence of nothingness(no mind which is the ego, no illusion of pleasure or pain, no nothing- just Truth/the balance). Through samadhi which is attuning onself to the frequency of Truth which is gods balanced gyan which applies across the universe(is everything and anything) that lives to discover while remaining detached from the nasha of the discovery be it high or low(for they are false only balance exists),we silence the mind so we can just feel within our being for the mind is ego- the knowledge of the mind is worldly, god cannot be fathomed through logic or truly described through language, we discover him through true love (trust and acceptance of his will)-

Guru Ji said of god, that god resides in the heart, yet there is no heart- how can one ever contemplate such gyan though the mind? It can only be felt, the heart is beyond worldly knowledge, one can love for absolutely no reason, beyond all logic- Love the murderer and the holy man, love the slanderer and the saint- it is Truly love beyond logic and cannot be fathomed until one is deep in the true bhagti and the mind is silenced.

These words are weak for language can never truly describe God, thats why we are asked to attune ourselves to naam/ truth and discover it ourselves on just about every page of Guru Granth Sahib Ji, reading it is simply not enough.

[DustOfTheSaintsFeet]

P.s HarsharanJi your reply was beautiful Truth. Satnam Ji, Truth is his name.

[harsharan000]

ਹਣਵੰਤੁ ਜਾਗੈ ਧਰਿ ਲੰਕੂਰੁ ॥

हणवंतु जागै धरि लंकूरु ॥

Haṇvanṯ jāgai ḏẖar lankūr.

Hanuman with his tail is awake and aware.

ਸੰਕਰੁ ਜਾਗੈ ਚਰਨ ਸੇਵ ॥

संकरु जागै चरन सेव ॥

Sankar jāgai cẖaran sev.

Shiva is awake, serving at the Lord's Feet.

ਕਲਿ ਜਾਗੇ ਨਾਮਾ ਜੈਦੇਵ ॥੨॥

कलि जागे नामा जैदेव ॥२॥

Kal jāge nāmā Jaiḏev. ||2||

Naam Dayv and Jai Dayv are awake in this Dark Age of Kali Yuga. ||2||

ਜਾਗਤ ਸੋਵਤ ਬਹੁ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰ ॥

जागत सोवत बहु प्रकार ॥

Jāgaṯ sovaṯ baho parkār.

There are many ways of being awake, and sleeping.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜਾਗੈ ਸੋਈ ਸਾਰੁ ॥

गुरमुखि जागै सोई सारु ॥

Gurmukẖ jāgai so▫ī sār.

To be awake as Gurmukh is the most excellent way.

ਇਸੁ ਦੇਹੀ ਕੇ ਅਧਿਕ ਕਾਮ ॥

इसु देही के अधिक काम ॥

Is ḏehī ke aḏẖik kām.

The most sublime of all the actions of this body,

<a class="dict" href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%BF">ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਭਜਿ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ॥੩॥੨॥

कहि कबीर भजि राम नाम ॥३॥२॥

Kahi Kabīr bẖaj rām nām. ||3||2||

says Kabeer, is to meditate and vibrate on the Lord's Name. ||3||2||

Wah wah..attee sundar......shabash!

[jassa]

Dont Guru Granth Sahib see hanumaan as a bhagat ?

and whats wrong in having a bhagats darshan ?

Have not any one heard Hanuman Natak which guru Gobind Singh ji use to keep in their kamar kassa ?

Was not this hanuman natak part of Dasam granth sahib and removed after sodhak committee ?

Was not Dasam granth sees hanuman as a one of the greatest warrior of treta yug ?

Have all the supporters of dasam granth ever read rama avtar from chabis avtar ?

Personally i would feel great and feel my self a step more nearer to akal purkh when I will have a darshan of a bhagat or a warrior no matter which religion people classify him to.

[harsharan000]

I've had many darshans of Krishna and His realm, the first one I had when I didn't even do naam simran, he saved me from a hell I was getting dragged to...

The thing is these darshans may come, but god really is All Around, in the Saint and in the Sinner. When one contemplates this, the time comes to detach and go for the Truth in all it's glory- deep into the Nothingness where the Truth is actually found, beyond light, sound and form- The primal silence.

Nirvair(and niroboa is One vision of True Love(a Fearless True love). It's not, love one vision but not the other, or love one person and love the other less. The devil literally is god himself, so is the rapist. How do we love a rapist as much as we love our own parents? That is the riddle the gurmukh must contemplate and the obstacle we must overcome. How do we remain psychologically sound when our parents and loved ones die around us, or when it comes our turn to go?

Truth is not about visions(Maya illusion/false imagery) God created all from the void and we'll go back to where we were created(the void)- there is no imagery there, no sound, touch, sight- everything limited to these senses is false, absolutely everything. When one realises this physically, the truth is known and the attachments(darkness, 1 of the 5 thieves, all attchment to imagery in a sin) we hold are conquered.

One may say they love to gaze upon the image of the guru, this is because he is Self realised and emnates the Truth, but darshan of him is not the end for we must also go and discover the very same thing He discovered. The jivan mukht knows that the Truth resides in the silence of nothingness(no mind which is the ego, no illusion of pleasure or pain, no nothing- just Truth/the balance). Through samadhi which is attuning onself to the frequency of Truth which is gods balanced gyan which applies across the universe(is everything and anything) that lives to discover while remaining detached from the nasha of the discovery be it high or low(for they are false only balance exists),we silence the mind so we can just feel within our being for the mind is ego- the knowledge of the mind is worldly, god cannot be fathomed through logic or truly described through language, we discover him through true love (trust and acceptance of his will)-

Guru Ji said of god, that god resides in the heart, yet there is no heart- how can one ever contemplate such gyan though the mind? It can only be felt, the heart is beyond worldly knowledge, one can love for absolutely no reason, beyond all logic- Love the murderer and the holy man, love the slanderer and the saint- it is Truly love beyond logic and cannot be fathomed until one is deep in the true bhagti and the mind is silenced.

These words are weak for language can never truly describe God, thats why we are asked to attune ourselves to naam/ truth and discover it ourselves on just about every page of Guru Granth Sahib Ji, reading it is simply not enough.

Dear brother, the fact that you had Krishnas´s darshanas... is quite encouraging, inspite of saying even when you had not done Nam Simram. This only proves, no effort goes in vain, and reincarnation is a fact. This is probably due, to some sort of kamaee you had performed in your past birth/s... so you are continuing just from where you left it then.... it was just a matter of time, you had already planted the seed(kamaee and watered it), just you had to wait for it to be riped.

But as for me, I will never tell anybody that he is wrong or right, it is for Him to decide what to do and when to do.... as all souls belong to Him, He is all chatur and siane, while we are totally mugadhs. I can only sing His glory, that also, if He thinks fit. But as for me, if I am given to choose between any gods (or even all of them together) darshans daily at all times( i don´t want to name, so that nobody is hurted), and on the other hand if I had only Nam Simran, even then I would definetely choose Nam Simran of my beloved Wahiguru!