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Leamington Spa Gurdwara Committee Vows To Hold Akhand Path For Indira Ghandi


Guru Panth Khalsa
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Khalsa Ji, As you can see through this thread many questions were asked, of which the committee or their representitives have been unable to answer.

After the Bhog of the Sri Akhand Path Sahib today the Stage Secretary had no intention of mentioning Shaheed Bhai Beant Singh Ji, Bhai Satwant Singh Ji or any other shaheed.

Khalsa Ji, it was *deleted* the Assistant General Secretary of the Gurdwara Sahib who is non - amritdhari and a *deleted* (remember in the Gurdwara you do not have to be Amritdhari to become a committee member) who stated that we can hold the Akhand Path Sahib of Indira Ghandi too if one is held for the Shaheed Singhs who assasinated her,

The Stage Sec (Also a non-Amritdhari) stated that there is no way that we will allow anyone to speak about ANYTHING other than the Sikh Gurus - Now please dont lie about this because those were his words.

Then the Sikh Fed Chief Amrik Singh Gill went on stage and clarified that he does not understand why people do not understand the concept of MIRI PIRI Sidaant in the Gurdwara Sahib. He totally thrashed the Stage Secretary after Amrik Singh Gill the stage secretary went on stage and defended himself.

Then Kulwant Singh Dhesi, Tarsem Singh Deol, Kuldeep Singh Chaheru, Charan Singh all spoke, in favour of the Shaheed Singhs, and if you listened carefully, the old men sat on the back benches were moaning their heads off, but due to the amount of Panthic Singhs present, they kept their mouths shut.

It is with no doubt, that if the amount Singhs that turned up at the Gurdwara Sahib today, did not come, there was NO WAY the names of SHAHEED BHAI BEANT SINGH, BHAI SATWANT SINGH and other shaheed Singhs would have been mentioned.

Its not an issue against the Gurdwara Sahib, the issue is the ANTI - Panthic committee, today if those Singhs never came and this committee never allowed the names of those Singhs to be mentioned on stage this disease would have spread to other Gurdwara's, and therefore other so called 'moderate' Gurdwaras would have banned the use of the names of Shaheed Singhs at their Gurdwaras too..... look at it in the long run.

The Stage secretary, UNTIL provoked from the Sangat DID NOT mention any Shaheed Singhs name, and also stated Sangat Ji, we have so many million pounds outstanding on our loan, if we go into these issues it will divide the Sangat therefore the revenue will drop.

NOW ANSWER ME.... will mentioning the names of those who gave up everything for you really divide the Sangat?

I stand firm all the alligations made are 100% true, unless the sharaabi committee proves them wrong. I also stand firm with the belief that Sri Akal Takhat Sahib should pass a resolution stating that ALL GURDWARA PARBANDHAK'S MUST BE AMRITDHARI.

Khalsa Ji, whether or not 1 member from this forum believes me, or whether no body does, look at what these committee wale, whether or not Leamington or anywhere else, becareful, these old men, will bring on the downfall of the movement, just like the old guard Shiromani Akali Dal did during 84 and after.

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Guru Panth Khalsa,

I must admit that i believe you are telling the truth. The way you come across and the details you give seem very truthful and another thing that makes me believe you is the fact that ive seen this scenario time and time again with committees and their "sunday sermons" to their local sangat members, albeit NEVER directly related to putting down Shaheed Singhs like these people have done.

I would also like to say that although it is interesting how many singhs from outer areas came and addressed the sangat today, if history is anything to go by, normal service will sadly resume next week onwards, when these people will have an extra vendetta to spread hate about local sangat today who supported the Singhs from outer areas. Until singhs dont start going to these places week in week out until change occurs, nothing will happen. I believe it should be the duty of the BSC to do this but lets not kid ourselves...

Also, the first thing i think of when someone mentions the Leamington Gurdwara to me is (apart from its grand design) the amazing art work...the massive photos of Banda Singh Bahadur and Mai Bhago (in the stairwells)...i have not seen such grand paintings with attached timelines in any other Gurdwara in the UK....so, what message are the committee members trying to give, when they say that there is no way they will allow anyone to speak about anyone but the Gurus? To me, the message is that they built this Gurdwara Sahib as a tourist attraction. Almost as a museum. As a gallery. As a picture of sikhism to the mainstream. Forgetting the very meaning of a Gurdwara sahib....that it is our Gurus house. End of. What a very bad judgement that committee member made who said no one but the Gurus would be spoken about...

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Khalsa Ji, As you can see through this thread many questions were asked, of which the committee or their representitives have been unable to answer.

After the Bhog of the Sri Akhand Path Sahib today the Stage Secretary had no intention of mentioning Shaheed Bhai Beant Singh Ji, Bhai Satwant Singh Ji or any other shaheed.

Khalsa Ji, it was *deleted* the Assistant General Secretary of the Gurdwara Sahib who is non - amritdhari and a *deleted* (remember in the Gurdwara you do not have to be Amritdhari to become a committee member) who stated that we can hold the Akhand Path Sahib of Indira Ghandi too if one is held for the Shaheed Singhs who assasinated her,

The Stage Sec (Also a non-Amritdhari) stated that there is no way that we will allow anyone to speak about ANYTHING other than the Sikh Gurus - Now please dont lie about this because those were his words.

Then the Sikh Fed Chief Amrik Singh Gill went on stage and clarified that he does not understand why people do not understand the concept of MIRI PIRI Sidaant in the Gurdwara Sahib. He totally thrashed the Stage Secretary after Amrik Singh Gill the stage secretary went on stage and defended himself.

Then Kulwant Singh Dhesi, Tarsem Singh Deol, Kuldeep Singh Chaheru, Charan Singh all spoke, in favour of the Shaheed Singhs, and if you listened carefully, the old men sat on the back benches were moaning their heads off, but due to the amount of Panthic Singhs present, they kept their mouths shut.

It is with no doubt, that if the amount Singhs that turned up at the Gurdwara Sahib today, did not come, there was NO WAY the names of SHAHEED BHAI BEANT SINGH, BHAI SATWANT SINGH and other shaheed Singhs would have been mentioned.

Its not an issue against the Gurdwara Sahib, the issue is the ANTI - Panthic committee, today if those Singhs never came and this committee never allowed the names of those Singhs to be mentioned on stage this disease would have spread to other Gurdwara's, and therefore other so called 'moderate' Gurdwaras would have banned the use of the names of Shaheed Singhs at their Gurdwaras too..... look at it in the long run.

The Stage secretary, UNTIL provoked from the Sangat DID NOT mention any Shaheed Singhs name, and also stated Sangat Ji, we have so many million pounds outstanding on our loan, if we go into these issues it will divide the Sangat therefore the revenue will drop.

NOW ANSWER ME.... will mentioning the names of those who gave up everything for you really divide the Sangat?

I stand firm all the alligations made are 100% true, unless the sharaabi committee proves them wrong. I also stand firm with the belief that Sri Akal Takhat Sahib should pass a resolution stating that ALL GURDWARA PARBANDHAK'S MUST BE AMRITDHARI.

Khalsa Ji, whether or not 1 member from this forum believes me, or whether no body does, look at what these committee wale, whether or not Leamington or anywhere else, becareful, these old men, will bring on the downfall of the movement, just like the old guard Shiromani Akali Dal did during 84 and after.

a very informative post, thank you

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The reality is that this was test /challenge to panthic Sikhs and jathenandis, to see if they cared about this issue or where just interested in promoting themselves. As stated in an earlier post, had it not been for those Singhs attaending and speaking on stage, the outcome would have been different and other Gurdwaras with anti panthic committees would have been encouraged to do likewise.

So well done to all those that attended, and should panthic unity- Sikh Federation and AKJ and other gurdwara committe members (peer pressure). Also good to see youngsters and elder generation.

From what l have been told, dissaponited in lack of youth and other orgs, like SAS, BOSS, Taksali youth and newley formed organisations attending and supporting. Hope they do next time to show unity.

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"Guru Panth Khalsa"

I accept your views and have answered questions to the best of my knowledge. Im not here to challenge yourself or anybody, more so the opposite (especially lie - as i refrain from such acts). I want to stand beside you all, not Against you to create any divide.

I'll firstly answer your question:

NOW ANSWER ME.... will mentioning the names of those who gave up everything for you really divide the Sangat?

I agree with you, NO...mentioning any Shaheeds names in front of the Sangat would not create a divide. If you recall, Amrik Singh Gill also corrected the Stage Secretary in front of the Sangat - and im sure that the Stage Secretary has now realised his Gaalthi and will learn from it for the future.

In fact, Amrik Singh Gill spoke so passionately about the Shaheed Singhs - that I would now find it hard to believe that Anybody would not now remeber these Brave people.

Kuldeep Singh Dhesi also had a jab at the Secretary Sahib for not mentioning the Shaheeds names - so im sure now he will take this into consideration for next time.

As you know - we Sikhs are very forgiving - even though theres so much Pride people have - we still Denounce this Pride and thank people like Amrik Singh, Kuldeep Singh and fellow speakers. Im sure the Stage Secretary have enough Sense to take the hints and change their thoughts. I personally think that the Stage Secretary at Leamington and Warwick is very good at this job, as he has plenty of knowledge on the Sikh Kaum - his speeches for every occasion on Stage are well composed and he doesnt just string a load of words together to fill up time.

Im not being funny, but i know Amritdhaari people that would fit well into a committee background, as they would take on daily duties and carry out Sewa for the benefit of Sangat and Gurdwara. On the other hand, I know some Amritdhaari people that are unable to practice what they believe - some that dont partake in any Sewa when they go to the Gurdwara. I can give exactly the same example for "Moneh" Sangat too. So i dont entirely agree with you that each member of a Gurdwara Committee has to be Amritdhaari. I know where you are coming from though - you would like the members of the committee to have some remote Maryada on the Sikh Kaum and Practice what is being Preahced. My fear is that we would not like to drive away Non Amritdhaari individuals from partaking in Gurdwara Sewa.

Im saying this with my hand on my heart - from what i have seen from each and every member of the Leamington and Warwick Committee (each and every year) - they all have best intentions for the running of the Gurdwara Sahib. IF YOU Disagree - this is where Difference in Opinion comes in - Where people are adamant to have things done thier own way. Its very harsh to label the current committee "Anti Panthic" - thats such a bold statement.

Also - Im not directing an insult in your direction or trying to belittle you in any way:

BUT

Why did you NOT stand up in front of the Sangat on Sunday when the Stage Secretary announced that NOBODY has every vowed to hold an Akhand Paath for Indra Gandhi??? Surely - this was your Opportunity to Challenge the Committee and point out that they are Wrong?

How come you quietly sat down with the rest of Us & did not Contest the Statement made from the Stage Secretary. I did say in my earlier posts that a Jakaraa was Voiced straight after to Accept the Stage Secretarys claims.

How come you have still carried out these accusations over the Internet & Not in the Sangat??? Im just curious to know why? Because people reading here are 50 / 50 as to believe these harsh and unrealistic claims.

Please dont take this personally - but I think the downfall of any committee will Be Statements that you have made. These "old men" have had their turn, you should look to the future now and get ready to be part of the Gurdwara committees for yourself. Make your mark then - when you have the chance to organise the Gurdwara on a daily basis. I dont know if you have already been on the committee already?

"GurpsSinghAujla"

Also, the first thing i think of when someone mentions the Leamington Gurdwara to me is (apart from its grand design) the amazing art work...the massive photos of Banda Singh Bahadur and Mai Bhago (in the stairwells)...i have not seen such grand paintings with attached timelines in any other Gurdwara in the UK....so, what message are the committee members trying to give, when they say that there is no way they will allow anyone to speak about anyone but the Gurus? To me, the message is that they built this Gurdwara Sahib as a tourist attraction. Almost as a museum. As a gallery. As a picture of sikhism to the mainstream. Forgetting the very meaning of a Gurdwara sahib....that it is our Gurus house. End of. What a very bad judgement that committee member made who said no one but the Gurus would be spoken about...

I half sympathise where you are coming from - but I dont think anybody treats Leamington & Warwick Gurdwara Sahib as a museum. Yes, the paintings are Amazing and have Great presence. Maybe its best to have a one on one convo with that particular member of the committee to ask his views on the great icons, rather then speak about his judgement here - where he cannot defend himself? I dont know, just a thought.

Please do not take offence to any opinions / views i have left, these are not my intentions.

Bhul Chukk Maaf Karna Ji

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh

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Porsche911,

I respect the passion that you have and with which you speak about your Gurdwara sahib. Its nice to see and the institution would benefit from having people that think like you in its committee. Regarding the Gurdwara being perceived as a museum....im not from that area, so if you say its not the case then i suppose youre in a better place to make that judgment, as you know your Gurdwara sahib better than me.

In regards to speaking to this committee member one to one, i have no interest in doing so. I know not all committee members of Gurdwaras are the same, but this individuals badly planned remarks and decisions lead me to believe that i can imagine how the conversation would go if i did speak with him. Im sure he would think of Banda Singh Bahadur as the greatest warrior that ever lived. Im sure he would think of Mai Bhago and the greatest wariorress that ever lived. Im sure he would think of Beant Singh and Satwant Singh as the greatest shaheeds that ever lived. Ive been around committees, done it, and got the tshirt, and i can safely say that from my experience, people with judgment like this particular individuals have more faces than the clock and will swap opinions and stances depending on the person they are talking to...APART from the time they get wound up and hot headed, leading to a remark made out of anger, which is when their true feelings come out....ring any bells?

I come on here to give my opinion. Im not interested in talking to him in the slightest. He's not accountable to me. He is accountable to his committee and the sangat who have given him the status as a committee member. But mostly, and ultimately, he is accountable to guru maharaj. And for people like this committee member (if he is the kind of person i am speaking about) i often wonder....

...Daran raa-ey jab lekha maagai kiya mukh leh keh jaahega? - When the righteous judge of Dharma calls for your account, what face will you show him then?

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“GurpsSinghAujla”

Thanks Bhaji. I equally respect yourself and everyone here. We are all the same, we share the same emotions, just some of us share our feelings a bit more.

Maybe you are right about speaking the truth in the heat of the moment, maybe not? Im still in the opinion of the Stage Secretary being a decent person. He made a Gaalthi about not mentioning any shaheeds names, but was rightfully corrected as we have pointed out already. He is very knowledgeable and goes the extra mile to share his Giyaan with the Sangat. My view is that he has a clean heart and respects everybody that speaks to him. Its your choice whatever you decide to think of him, or even not.

I agree with you that we have ONE ultimate JUDGE. There’s no escaping the Truth then, its either UP or DOWN for us when our time comes to an end.

Bhul Chukk Maaf Karna Ji

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh

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I also was present having travelled there by my self from Coventry.

I fully back up what was stated about the lem committee member not wanting to name our jodai shaheeds. The committee having done bhog sri akhand path went on to talk about things and then used the raagi's from the wedding of another Hall to use time knowing the local sangat would soon begin leaving, before any issues were raised.

This was alluded to by kulwant Singh dhesi as an example of siasi-ism by the committee who has just said that siasi galla should not be undertaken from the stage of the gurughar.

Dhesi then asked if not siasi Miri Piri in the gurdwara then where? To which an old man seated at the rear shouted " on tv ".

so I went because I felt it was right.

Also because I received a text during the week that this was going to be a test of our resolve.

3 texts I got.

3!

Yet I sat at the rear of the Dewan hall, struggling to recognise anyone my age or younger (35) from the wider lem area, ie Coventry, b'ham or leicester, why?

Are they text wariors?

Yes we should be careful of the budhai kherai of the temples but where's the youth? Our fathers were in their 20's when they took over and created what is today the panthic friendly gurdwara's post bluestar!!!

Like I said I'm from Coventry, and at my local gurughar there's a sizable group of youths that definitely look the part, but alas.........................

If only looks could kill huh?

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"sachasoorma"

Bhaji, I understand your point with regards to the limited Presence of Youth at the Gurdwarae these days. This is a challenge not just in Leamington & Warwick faces, but many other areas. Its a common topic on Panth Times Show week in week out on the Sikh Channel - Sangat TV also highlight the same issue.

The Stage Secretary did announce that there is a "Learn & Go" Session being held this week (Weds) - this session is typically aimed at Youth. Asking them to congregate and share knowledge / experience with each other - these are regularly held events at Leamington & Warwick. This weeks topic will focus on "Lavaan Ceremony". The importance of the Chaar Lavaan for a Wedding and what it means for a couples future.

Generally, there is a decent amount of all age ranges that come to the Gurdwara on a regular basis - more so for Gurpurabs / other auspicious occassions - however we would also like to actively involve more youth and see them there out of there own free will. For TWO Towns - Warwick & Leamington - we have done well to keep it at 1 Global Gurdwara Sahib. We are not geographically as big as Coventry, but we could have easily have 2 / 3 Gurdwarae in different areas of the town by now. But NO, we have 1 HUB where all of the Sangat come together. Your going to get different types of people there, hence "Your elder generation at the Back type of people" - but everyone puts up with each other and tries to move forward.

Bhul Chukk Maaf Karna Ji

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh

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