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Why Follow A Strict Rehat Maryada


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...they're living too comfortable thinking they've got it on lockdown just by donning the amritdhari dress, waking up at amritvela and keeping away from meat, alcohol etc(all Easy as pie)...

You should visit the Gupt section once in a while. Some amritdharis asking about where to obtain motivation to wake up at amritvela, cease the act of....self-pleasure, etc. Its not as easy as some think. For some its a constant challenge, especially for youngsters who may have taken amrit but were not emotionally mature enough to fully understand the huge responsibility it entails.

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A young child before going to bed whines for sugar filled cookies. Ask many times to eat the cookies from his mom. The young child mom continues to resist to give in, as she knows the conquences to

Why, pray tell, are women not allowed to do Paath? I always thought that, you know, Starting with Guru Nanak that men and women were equal. But since you personally disagree with this, I guess they we

No, outer rehat is not the most difficult, the amritdhari may perhaps find that slander that may come with it is very difficult to overcome, but there is nothing difficult about keeping outer rehat. A

This discussion of outer rehat vs. inner rehat has no merit in it. Before distinguishing between the two ask where the two came from? "Outer" rehat is not an outer rehat at all if you understand where the "outer" rehat comes from. From Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj to Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj, they have told us that this so called outer rehat is tied in with the "inner" rehat. You can't discriminate between the two. Here I'll give an example:

An Amritdhari goes out in bad sangat (bars, parties, etc), doesn't watch, where he eats from, uses foul language, flirts with girls, listens to songs filled with the 5 vices, and just indulges in maya, but doesn't commit any of the bujjar kurihets and does his paat and goes to the Gurdwara. He really doesn't fit in to the crowds of people, who indulge in this maya, but pretty much becomes a tag along. Say he falls into depression and feels like he doesn't fit in or no one accepts him. Now if you read the "outer" rehat that Satguru left for us. It says to stay away from such activities. First ask yourself why Satguru Sri Guru Gobind SIngh Sahib ji Maharaj said stay away from such activities? Then ask yourself why this guy would be depressed? (Everyone knows how deeply depressed and frustrated many Amritdhari youth are today and this goes both for boys and girls) (and the ones that are not Amritdhari are even more depressed in a state of complete denial but take drugs to feel some happiness in life) A person's environment completely has an affect on them. A person that goes into the above mentioned activites has not done bhagti. They have read Gurbani and maybe studied Gurbani to a certain degree. A person that has done bhagti will stay away from the above activities because he knows the messenger of death are waiting for him there to trick him. The messenger of death tricks a person by making them think I can go into such activities (the messenger of death makes him indulge in ego) and not be hurt (let my jeevan be negatively affected) by it (this is where the ego brings out lust, anger, attachment, greed). If he had stayed humble and said i need to follow the "outer" rehat as Satguru gave it to me, then he would not have been troubled by depression. The "outer" rehat is not at all about an outer appearance. It is to move a person from just reading Gurbani, to actually doing bhagti. This "outer" rehat comes from Gurbani and gives the person the tools to actually do bhagti.

To put it a different way. When we study for exams for courses. Do we take with us the friends that are going to talk the whole time, distract you by calling other friends, and get no studying done? Or will you take friends with you that will help you study, clear up some questions you have, and actually study themselves? Doing Bhagti works in a similar manner, but its not just a 3 hours thing. It's all day and every day activity. To do bhagti the "outer" rehat cannot be disregarded for one second.

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ive never encountered this with anyone, as the rehat is about 95/97% the same between all samprdayes or jathas

I dont think anyone can say we took amrit with a lax maryada

There is one rehat given that is vague when it comes to defining what Amritdharis can and can't do. It leaves room for a person to intrepret the rehat to fit their life style. I won't mention where this rehat is given, but I'm pretty sure you figured it out, which rehat i'm refering too. I don't want to mention where this rehat is given because some people might see it as an opportunity for an ease way out. I wasn't aware of it until, I heard a person refering to it and speaking about how they can do many things because that rehat doesn't speak against it.

Another excuse some Amritdharis use when it comes to rehat is that, the Punj Pyare didn't tell me anything on a certain topic, so i can do as i think is correct. Then these Amritdharis give the famous line, Gurbani doesn't say its wrong, so i can do it.

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Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh ||

With Maharaj's Kirpa i have ome across various stories from the lives of recent and Puratan Gursikhs who had Darshan of Kalgidhar Patshah Ji. They asked him about finishing an Akhand Path in 48 hours ut my Satguru Ji this was just a Rehat started by My Sikhs I never gave such A Command. After this incident in his life Sant Harnam Singh Ji Rampur Khera Wale would even with Maharj's Kirpa finish Sri Akhand Path Sahib Ji in 72 hours .

While i know there is a topic on this i just have to ask: Are Singhni Allowed to do Kirtan In Sach Khand Sri Haramndir Sahib Ji .

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh ||

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Outer rehit- 5 K's- Refrain yourself from 4 kurahits- eating meat, having sexual intercourse(bhog bilas) outside marriage, cutting/trimming/shaving kesh, taking drugs, maintaining abek and outer bibek.

I take outer rehat as uniform in the school- basic requirement. No If or buts, basic requirement. As beginner sikh who have taken amrit(admission), this is must- hatt is must/basic requirement/uniform in School of Sikhi its policy requirement, it's not up for debate or playing around with circles with it.

Have you ever seen in real life- students in high school/colleges/universities fighting over basic requirement/uniform and spend all their time doing that? NO, they accept it and move on to look at more monumental task of 4-5 years of hard studying, passing exams and getting degree.

Once we can comprehend above and we need to move on and look and understand of syllabus/courses in Sikhi

Read the below in context of stages. I must state truth and post whole sikh journey in its totality rather just one portion:

Inner rehit- doing panj banis, doing simran jap via gurmantar, mool mantar, doing gurbani vichar, discussing adyatamik (spiritual) school of thoughts, learning languages ie- sanskrit, farsi, urdu, persian, braj basha, sadhu basha to understand scriptures, learning bhram vidiya, have seva bhavna and do seva, have virtues- compassion, nonviolence, be in god's will, humility,pateince, contenment, truth to combat- 5 vices- lust, anger, attachment, greed, ego , observe your mind/thought process/study it and with simran eliminate thoughts, anxeity.

For begineers, both inner and outer rehit are important. However in bhramgyan avastha, many of very famous sikh mahapursh depending on their nature (three natures of bhramgan- daanie, divanie, mastane) didnt felt an need to follow some parts in outer and inner rehit and still follow gurmat sidhant from "bhramgyan angle", if you are unsure what that gurmat sidhant is, look no further, read no further my bakvas, books written by soo and soo sant or bhai sahib, just read sri akaal ustat, all the kandan of karam kaand which people idolize (as opposed to an stage) its bluntly there. If you thinking guru ji is reffering to karam kands done by hindus not sikhs around that time or will be doing in future, you are sadly mistaken. Karam kands and elements in shariat stage(elements in both inner and outer rehit) - wearing kakars most difinately needed for jaigaso/abhilkes so kakars are constant reminder of any wrong doings but right at this time we are talking about bhramgyanis(depending on their nature), its not mandatory for them

As sukhmani sahib says explaining status of bhramgyani:

braham giaanee lae dhhaavath bandhhaa ||

braham giaanee kaa anth n paar ||

braham giaanee kaa sagal akaar ||

braham giaanee aap nirankaar ||

Guru maharaj and his ladlaie Bhramgyanis cannot be bound to maryada. Very logically speaking- in a school its only students requires read/follow through rules of school and text book not the teachers but some teachers being concerned students might go astray, they also read through and follow through rules of text book such teachers are called danaie/ Purshutam Maryada Mahpursh such as sant gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale/Bhai sahib bhai randhir singh ji and many more.

There are some elements in outer rehit ie- bibek, wearing kakars and inner rehit- learning languages, observing your mind/thought process/studying it which are exceptional from cases to cases as in such elements are there as a rehat to get you to God but they are not God themselves...once person is in turiya avastha/sam avastha. He/she is not bound to follow certain elements in both outer and inner rehit.

Now lets talk about guru gobind singh ji maharaj, putting rules/maryada on mahapursh is morakhta but putting rules or maryada on sri guru gobind singh ji- nirankari jot in sargun saroop is MAHA morakhata. I ll give two historical examples of how sri guru gobind singh ji adapted outer garb by his own hakum/ by his own mauj/ and by his own masti.

1. When sri guru gobind singh ji clapped his hand as uch da pir, he wore traditional muslim dress.

2. When sri guru gobind singh ji started nirmale samparda, he wore a traditional phagva sadhu color and sent 5 singhs who also wore phagva sadhu color to kashi, banares.

We(Sikhs) have started judging our khasam Guru by own little mats(standards). We got people who start rejecting relics of maharaj and bachitar natak by questioning the act of Guru. Why did he felt a need to write a autiobiography of himself? he cannot wear seli topi.

We judge our khasam guru according to our own standards, that nirankari jot who came into this world to break shackles of soceity (shariavaad, bhraminvaad) can dress in which ever way they want, they dont your premission nor the rehit like you must wear dumala or dastar applies to them. I cannot beleive sikhs restricting their own guru maharaj act by the rehit maryada in rehit namas which were written gurmukhs so that jaigaso can stay in rehit (free from sins) maryada(remeber death).

Question to people- Guru Maharaj who made all this sristi, rehat maryada does his own rules apply to him? maryada is for students, stopping applying maryada's to guru(Teacher). Have you ever heard of physics teacher, completing exams along with his students in the class rom? no he is the one marks the exams.

What if Guru Sahib give us darshan in livaaj(dress) of almast fakir(contary to most people mindset of how Guru dressed like ie- bibeki, 9 inch kirpan etc etc), dastar to test us(sikhs).. is my sikh got to avastha of advait(non duality)/ bhagat namdev where he saw God in Dog and every where?

What if Guru Sahib comes to the house of Sikh in form of gareeb(poor person) to test his sikh,.. did my sikh reached the state "free" from dvaish(partiality) towards other human regardless of their dharam? would we able to recnognize him?

Guru Ji can take whichever form he wishes in sargun form to test his Sikh because Guru ji is a nirankari jot... what scares me or send shivers down to my spine that we sikhs may even reject our own Guru as "kafir" because we have certain idol in our mind who guru would have dressed like and start idiolising that imaginary idol by that we start judging Guru Sahiban with our standards(little mat and buddhi), narrow minded views.

==========

Foot notes:

Three natures of Bhramgyanis*:

source: The Radiance of complete journey to Akaal Purkh by Sant baba Jagjit Singh Ji Harkhowaley.

Three kinds of BhramGyani(Sants,Mahatama, Mahapursh)...

1. Mastane: Intoxicated ones through remembrance get themselves merged with Almighty(Vahiguroo). More carefree un-attached will boldly function. Do not reveal their secret. Talk in Mysterious tone. Very few rarely come to understand. Have no time to teach common people. Always remain lost in spiritual contemplation. Some rare persons can take benefit from them.

2. Divane- Madhin lover remain intoxicated in God's love but give out sometime such inner secret that proves a source of life for the seekers, who after having themselves proven worth in their sight are also able to colour others in God's Love.

3. Daane- The wise ones who live according to what they preach and talk in understandable tone which benefits all and hearing which people renounce evil deeds. They always treat the path of truth and are eager for welfare of one and all.

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Why cant moneh help in making langar and do seva? Why is it ok for moneh to sweep up and do all the dirty jobs, but not serve langar?

Not everyone would describe them as "dirty jobs"! :biggrin2: I'd call those duties quite humbling.

But sister, there has to be a line somewhere you know? I know what you're saying but at this moment in time - and according to my current 'mat' - some seva should be for those who have taken Amrit. But it's a good question. Ask a learned elder the next time you get the chance to do so. I'll be interested in their reply.

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Why cant moneh help in making langar and do seva? Why is it ok for moneh to sweep up and do all the dirty jobs, but not serve langar?

Of all the Amritdharis I know and the Monas I know, I have found that Amritdharis do more of first list and less of the Second list, and Monas do more of the Second List and less of the first list.

Now before you start reading the two lists, I am not saying that either list is good or bad. However, you pull 10 random Western Born Amritdharis off the street and 10 western Born mona off the street and you will see a massive gap between the two groups with regards to fitting into each list.

So which list/group would you like lungar made from? If you think somebody's actions make no difference to what sort of person they are, then fine, but I believe actions define a person. I like my langar made by a person who is defined as good.

First List:

Follow Gurmat, read and understand Gurbani (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Dassam Granth, Bhai Gurdas de Vara, rehat maryada, wear the 5Ks out of respect for Guru Ji, keep hair given to them by God, wear the Turban given to them by their 10 Gurus, do nitnem in the morning, reharas evening and Kirtan Sohila at bedtime. Have Sikh knowledge or Sikh History and know Sikh Gurus names and figures like Baba Deep Singh Ji, Bhai Taru Singh Ji and endless other. Do kirtan, understand katha and the maryada of the Gurdwara and Kitchen at Gurdwara etc. Give Daswand/donation

Second List:

Drink alchohol, talk about women at the pub, eat meat, watch music videos asian and english with girls dressed like strippers. shave themselves, go to the hairdressing salon, swear. smoke, with nicotine in their nails, have sex before marriage or multiple partners (or try to have multiple partners and go on the pull). Try and move in a sexy way on the dance floor to attract the opposite sex. Pleasure themselves. Wear red strings on the wrist as it has black magic powers (sometimes with a Kara, usually without though). Not realise that Guru Gobind Singh Ji, and his four sons the Sahibzadeh, took Amrit and kept hair (like Baba Deep Singh Ji, Bhai Taru Singh Ji, Bhai Mani Singh Ji, Suka and Metab Singh, and all the other heroes in our history)

Like I say, I'm not saying which list is good or bad, but I know which list fits in with more Amritdharis and which fits in with more Mona, and I know who I would like my langar made by (get a random sample if you don't believe me). I am not saying all Amritdharis will fit into the first list only and all Monas will fit into the second list only, but the general pattern will be there, we can't ignore that! And we can't just find a few exception and say - see!

By the way, any seva I do, I do for Amritdharis and Monas alike. However, I would not like to make some food for say the Gianis, Granthis, Kirtanees, Parcharaks, who go to great lengths to follow the first list and avoid the second list, for them to then eat food made by me, with my nicotine stained, meat filled, alcohol soaked, hair cutting, pleasure/lust indulging hands just because I felt I had every right to make them eat food from my hands!

I think we have to ask ourselves why Guru Gobind Singh Ji took Amrit himself? Totally agree with the posts above that say you cannot separate the inner rehat with the outer rehat. There is not one without the other (other wise Guru Gobind Singh Ji and his family and all the other great sikhs I have mentioned would not have bothered with outer rehat). You cannot separate Guru Granth and Guru Panth, You cannon separate the 10 Gurus from Gurbani, You cannot separate the inner rehat from outer rehat. It's all inter-linked as part of the whole great picture of Sikhi.

You could ask everyone their life style before they started cooking in Kitchen at the Gurdwara. However, that would just create arguements. The other way is people Promise to the Panj Pyare that they will follow the first list and avoid the second list, and wear the 5Ks at all times to prove that they are following the first list and avoiding the Second list. That way you never need to ask but know who is following which list. You have got to remember that most mona say that, one day, they will take Amrit, and when they do they too will not want to have food from people who still indulge in what they will have then left behind!

I think we have to ask ourselves why did Guru Gobind Singh Ji take Amrit himself?

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excellent discussion!

especially liked N30S1NGH and 11Gurus1jot!

I heard an elderly sikh saying that women are still not allowed and were not allowed because of things like menstrual periods(apologies to the sisters reading this, but!) and the cleanliness related to that . I'm not sure.

No doubt "Moneh" can be good at heart but becoming a "real" good sikh at heart is more difficult that keeping the "outer" appearance. If they are so keen why not atleast do the easiest thing and "keep outer appearance" as they say being good at heart is required bay akal purkh.

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excellent discussion!

especially liked N30S1NGH and 11Gurus1jot!

I heard an elderly sikh saying that women are still not allowed and were not allowed because of things like menstrual periods(apologies to the sisters reading this, but!) and the cleanliness related to that . I'm not sure.

No doubt "Moneh" can be good at heart but becoming a "real" good sikh at heart is more difficult that keeping the "outer" appearance. If they are so keen why not atleast do the easiest thing and "keep outer appearance" as they say being good at heart is required bay akal purkh.

Ek0sikh and PAL07-

You both should be ashamed of yourself to proudly make such a lowly statement about singhnia. Any singhni is allowed to take part in an Akhand Paath. There is nothing amazing about Singhs over Singhnia regardless of what a rehit may state. If you want to make such ridiculous sexist statements then become a Muslim. This type of thinking is manmat, even if this comes from a Gursikh, it doesnt make it true.

Vaheguru is impartial and looks upon everyone equally. Gurbani calls both men and women on earth as soul-BRIDES. Also, Guru Gobind Singh jee states Khalsa mero roop hai khaas -both genders can become a Khalsa. Both genders can become equally as honourable and take part in panj seva, akhand paaths etc.

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Ek0sikh and PAL07-

You both should be ashamed of yourself to proudly make such a lowly statement about singhnia. Any singhni is allowed to take part in an Akhand Paath. There is nothing amazing about Singhs over Singhnia regardless of what a rehit may state. If you want to make such ridiculous sexist statements then become a Muslim. This type of thinking is manmat, even if this comes from a Gursikh, it doesnt make it true.

Vaheguru is impartial and looks upon everyone equally. Gurbani calls both men and women on earth as soul-BRIDES. Also, Guru Gobind Singh jee states Khalsa mero roop hai khaas -both genders can become a Khalsa. Both genders can become equally as honourable and take part in panj seva, akhand paaths etc.

Kaal veer ji i'm NNNNNNOOOOOOTTTTT making my own statement but telling you what someone thinks. Even some ladies think in the same way.

If you feel "really" sorry about this issue go to Darbar sahib and TRY speaking to the granthis/ or sgpc about this!! some ancient rituals need not be challenged. I remember a singh challenging "bakre di bali" opposite Takht Nanded Sahib. He was saved by police at the end.

If you talk to some amritdhari elders you will find some more opinions on this.

I'M NOT AGAINST EQUALITY between men and women as you have given me a TAG.I believe there might be some issues with that that is wwhhy

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excellent discussion!

especially liked N30S1NGH and 11Gurus1jot!

I heard an elderly sikh saying that women are still not allowed and were not allowed because of things like menstrual periods(apologies to the sisters reading this, but!) and the cleanliness related to that . I'm not sure.

No doubt "Moneh" can be good at heart but becoming a "real" good sikh at heart is more difficult that keeping the "outer" appearance. If they are so keen why not atleast do the easiest thing and "keep outer appearance" as they say being good at heart is required bay akal purkh.

Women are not on their periods 24/7, so that reason is not good enough and you shouldn't believe everything you hear. That's not sikhi and sounds completely ridiculous. If you were a female, you'd feel a lot differently about this.

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ok veer ji, but the current issue in Darbar Sahib will not last. It will change in the future, a lot will change. Singhs who do possess hidden ego of inequality will regret it in the future and will become humbled due to seeing the power of singhnia. Guru Sahib will give Singhnia high honour in the future, which will be for those Singhnia who have high respect and love for Guru Sahib through immense Naam and Gurbani Abhiyaas. Regarding an elders opinion, elders/youngster Gursikh talk a lot about their own false views from lacking a Bhramgyan Bibek Budh. Any view I hear which does not show equality for Singhnia is wrong.

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Women are not on their periods 24/7, so that reason is not good enough and you shouldn't believe everything you hear. That's not sikhi and sounds completely ridiculous. If you were a female, you'd feel a lot differently about this.

also it is not moral to ask 24/7 every women coming to do path whether she is not on their periods. i think that is why it was kept out of this sacred system. if not on periods then it is perfectly fine but please go and change this at Darbar Sahib first. I think a start should be made at the highest throne.

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