Why Follow A Strict Rehat Maryada

[Shadow 18]

also it is not moral to ask 24/7 every women coming to do path whether she is not on their periods. i think that is why it was kept out of this sacred system. if not on periods then it is perfectly fine but please go and change this at Darbar Sahib first. I think a start should be made at the highest throne.

I don't think women need to be asked if they are on their period, they would know themselves? I don't think men are asked if they did a number 2, you would assume they understand the whole system. I've seen women take part in akhand paaths at gurdwara, so nothing has to be changed. I think it matters more about what knowledge you impart to the youth because they are our future. Most elderly nowadays are stuck into alot of manmat things like caste, so of course they would lack equality and understanding!

[Only five 1,125]

Going by what Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj has said, everyone is required to follow Rehat Maryada. Satguru has very strictly said he loves Rehat more than the Sikh. This is the Eternal teaching of Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj and if someone, who others consider to be Brahmgyani, comes along and says i am not bound by the above teaching, then this person has gone against the teachings of Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj. Many people follow different holy men and these holy men are not following Satguru to the fullest. They have a lot of knowledge....more than us all put together, but they also are stuck in ego just like us. Sri Chand had a lot of knowledge but Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj didn't make him the Guru because he was stuck in ego. Sri Chand did not follow what Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj told him. Bhai Lehna ji also had a lot of knowledge, but he had more knowledge than Sri Chand and Bhai Lehna ji had something, which Sri Chand was missing. Bhai Lehna ji had dissolved the ego by following Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj to eternity. There was soo much love between Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj and Bhai Lehna ji Maharaj that they became one. Every step Satguru took, Bhai Lehna ji followed with utmost humility and love. In Sikhi spiritual knowledge is needed, but without following Satguru's every command, we are still stuck in ego and the knowledge becomes a bad thing, like it did for Sri Chand. Bow to Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj with the same knowledge by following every command and now this same knowledge become fruitful. So as Sikhs we need to be careful of these holy men, when they make such statements. Best thing to do is ignore these holy men and stick to Satguru's teaching. Holy men will not carry you to the other side (just like Sri Chand can't, and Bhai Gurdas ji Vaars tell us that Sri Chand couldn't save himself). Only Satguru can carry us to the other side. The Sant's that join us to Satguru's teachings and they themselves follow Satguru's teachings should never be ignored. These are the people who are Brahmgyanis.

There is no higher teacher in this world than our father Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj and our Guru, Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj.

[Kaal 21]

Going by what Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj has said, everyone is required to follow Rehat Maryada. Satguru has very strictly said he loves Rehat more than the Sikh. This is the Eternal teaching of Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj and if someone, who others consider to be Brahmgyani, comes along and says i am not bound by the above teaching, then this person has gone against the teachings of Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj. Many people follow different holy men and these holy men are not following Satguru to the fullest. They have a lot of knowledge....more than us all put together, but they also are stuck in ego just like us. Sri Chand had a lot of knowledge but Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj didn't make him the Guru because he was stuck in ego. Sri Chand did not follow what Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj told him. Bhai Lehna ji also had a lot of knowledge, but he had more knowledge than Sri Chand and Bhai Lehna ji had something, which Sri Chand was missing. Bhai Lehna ji had dissolved the ego by following Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj to eternity. There was soo much love between Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj and Bhai Lehna ji Maharaj that they became one. Every step Satguru took, Bhai Lehna ji followed with utmost humility and love. In Sikhi spiritual knowledge is needed, but without following Satguru's every command, we are still stuck in ego and the knowledge becomes a bad thing, like it did for Sri Chand. Bow to Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj with the same knowledge by following every command and now this same knowledge become fruitful. So as Sikhs we need to be careful of these holy men, when they make such statements. Best thing to do is ignore these holy men and stick to Satguru's teaching. Holy men will not carry you to the other side (just like Sri Chand can't, and Bhai Gurdas ji Vaars tell us that Sri Chand couldn't save himself). Only Satguru can carry us to the other side. The Sant's that join us to Satguru's teachings and they themselves follow Satguru's teachings should never be ignored. These are the people who are Brahmgyanis.

There is no higher teacher in this world than our father Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj and our Guru, Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj.

No one should be bound by the teachings of anyone except for Guru Sahib.

Regarding the rehitnama of there being 25 Singhs, if that really is a rehit made by Gursikhs of Guru Sahib's time then I believe it is refering to Singhnia too. Otherwise, it can be made up in recent times. A lot of false things have been introduced recently such as Akal Takht has made the wearing of a dastar optional for women. Now, if that rehitnama (25 Singhs) is true and made by a Gursikh in Guru Sahib's time then Singhs can also refer to Singhnia. For instance, some rehita refer to men but they can be applied to women -

mWie BYx jo AwvY sMgiq idRSit burI dyKy iqs pMgiq ]

maa(n)e bhain jo aavai sa(n)gath dhrishatt buree dhaekhae this pa(n)gath ||

Great sinners are those who cast evil eyes on women who enter the Sangat and do not treat them as mothers and sisters.

Rehatnama Bhai Nand Laal Jee

and

isMG isMG pr SsqR n kry ] jwn gurU Kwlsy qy fry]43]

si(n)gh si(n)gh par shasathr n karae || jaan guroo khaalasae thae ddarae||43||

A Sikh should never attack another Sikh. He should recognise others as the Guru Khalsa and should remain fearful of them.

Rehatnama Bhai Desa Singh

This is what Bhai Gurdas Jee states in his Vaaran about those who become a Panj -

prmysr hY pMj imil lyK AlyK n kImiq pweI]

paramaesar hai pa(n)j mil laekh alaekh n keemath paaee||

Where the five persons sit together, Lord God, is there, this mystery of indescribably Lord cannot be known.

pMj imly prpMc qij Anhd sbd sbid ilv lweI]

pa(n)j milae parapa(n)ch thaj anehadh sabadh sabadh liv laaee||

But only those five meet (to sit together) who repudiating hypocrisy have merged their consciousness in the unstruck melody of the Word.

http://www.sikhitoth...p?ShabadID=6196

and

ieku isKu duie swD sMgu pMjIN prmysru]

eik sikh dhue saadhh sa(n)g pa(n)jee paramaesaru||

One is a Sikh, two the Congregation and in five resides God

http://www.sikhitoth...p?ShabadID=5849

So, you have shown lack of understanding in Guru Sahib's rehita. If what you said was true and it only means Singhs (men) then Bhai Gurdas Jee would have made that significantly clear! So, the rehit is refering to both Singhs and Singhnia when it says 25 Singhs!

[Only five 1,125]

No one should be bound by the teachings of anyone except for Guru Sahib.

lol.....i wasn't even commenting on whether woman can be paatis in Akand Paaths. My response was on a completely different topic......on people calling a certain person a Brahmgyani and then saying....look hes not follow rehat so that means this person is exempt from rehat.

[Kaal 21]

lol.....i wasn't even commenting on whether woman can be paatis in Akand Paaths. My response was on a completely different topic......on people calling a certain person a Brahmgyani and then saying....look hes not follow rehat so that means this person is exempt from rehat.

lol sorry, thought you were. Anyway, what you have said is true.

[simran345 2,538]

I think it is up to the gurdwareh to have the rehat-maryada in place. As for somebody like me it is very confusing as to what seva I am allowed to, or should be doing. I never thought that moneh could not prepare or serve langar, where for years our families have been doing it, and not once has anybody stopped them.

I personally dont mind who serves me langar, as long as it is done with sucham, which the same goes for when preparing it for Maharaj ji.

I feel that only amritdhari sikhs should read Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, and ardas and bhog of langar should be done by amritdhari sikhs too.

Yes u are right @kalyugi paji, that they are humbling jobs, even jorea di seva is a job that is rewarding. But i cant understand why moneh should not be involved in langar seva. I was unaware that our Gurus stated that moneh cannot prepare langar. I have not read all the replies to this topic, but did they state they cannot partake in such seva?

I dont think Mat pul rao is trying to cause arguments, i think he is giving examples of that god sees everybody as equal, and anybody can reach god, regardless of religion. I think some people has misinterpreted that wrong, and MAt pul rao, maybe u should have given the example differently rather than mention a religion. but i understand what u are saying. -- oops i'm getting two posts mixed up here, sorry for the confusion, i was reading two topics at the same time.

i'm not debating it, im just trying to understand why and why not.

I do not know of any learned sikhs, thus the reason for asking here, but will try to find one next time i go to the gurdwara, so i can gain the knowledge, thank you ji.

[simran345 2,538]

oh and somebody mentioned the menstrual cycle, should women not go at them times to the gurdwara, or just not participate in seva at that time?

[Only five 1,125]

lol sorry, thought you were. Anyway, what you have said is true.

:biggrin2:......there was no harm done.

[Kaal 21]

oh and somebody mentioned the menstrual cycle, should women not go at them times to the gurdwara, or just not participate in seva at that time?

Of course you can go to the Gurdwara and you can do seva too. Guru Sahib has never said a woman cannot do seva due to her period. It's natural for women to get this.

[JSinghnz 1,086]

I'M NOT AGAINST EQUALITY between men and women as you have given me a TAG.I believe there might be some issues with that that is wwhhy if not on periods then it is perfectly fine but please go and change this at Darbar Sahib first. I think a start should be made at the highest throne.

Don't contradict yourself by saying on one hand that "I'M NOT AGAINST EQUALITY between men and women as you have given me a TAG.I believe there might be some issues with that that is wwhhy.

and then, "also it is not moral to ask 24/7 every women coming to do path whether she is not on their periods. i think that is why it was kept out of this sacred system."

WHAT HAS PATH TO DO WITH PERIODS OF A WOMEN?

[Only five 1,125]

oh and somebody mentioned the menstrual cycle, should women not go at them times to the gurdwara, or just not participate in seva at that time?

Why can't moneh partake in langar di seva?

It has been proven even in science when you play some bad lyrics in a room the plants in the room are effected negatively by it. Same with water....play some bad lyrics by it and the water crystals will turn a deformed shape. When we cook food we are suppose to be doing simran and focusing on Maharaj. What we think, the way we act..all this negative or positive energy has an affect on the food. When a person is not Amritdhari, then there is something lacking in the person spiritually because they are unwilling to give there head to Maharaj. I have seen while doing seva....people touching there phone and then going back to serving langar, people shaking hands with someone and then going back right to the seva they were doing without washing up, also seen people touching their face then going back to doing seva without washing hands. Sadly it was always moneh guys doing this. But some of these moneh guys are at the Gurdwara doing alot of seva like sweeping floors, washing dishes, etc. So i got a lot of respect for these guys. But for langar it is wrong, when serving langar we need to be pure from the inside (given head to Maharaj.......actually practicing Sikhi and clean from the outside...wash hands, don't talk over the langar, focus on Maharaj when serving, etc).

oh and somebody mentioned the menstrual cycle, should women not go at them times to the gurdwara, or just not participate in seva at that time?

Women not allowed to be paatis at times of menstrual cycle has nothing to do with women are unclean from the inside (spiritually they are weak or inferior or because they are women). It has everything to do with preventing any mistakes from happening. Same goes with Singhs that have an open wound.....they can't sit on Maharaj's palki because we don't want a mistake to take place. It's about keeping utmost respect for Maharaj. Women when on their cycle still do paath from a Gutka...so again it has nothing to do with discriminating against women because their women. They can do paat from a Gutka because they are not sitting on Maharaj palki.

[papidas 66]

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh ||

i am impressed by the amount of knowledge here. But could someone answer the question as to why women aren't allowed to do Kirtan in SachKhand Sri Harmandir Sahib Ji. i have heard from people that they used to be until around the 1970-1980. Couldor someone help with this. i also advise all of the people arguing here to read the book Se Kinehiya. Sant Harnam Singh Ji Rampur Khera Wale were a Puran Braham Giani who followed all of Guru Sahib Ji's Rehat.

http://www.sikhvibes.com/downloads/PDFs/Se%20Kinehiya%20-%20English.pdf

That th English Readable version if you want audiobook or Punjabi Version let know and will get to you asap with Maharaj's Kirpa.

Bhul Chuk Muaaf Sumat Bakhshan Satguru Ji.

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh ||

[singher23 146]

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh ||

i am impressed by the amount of knowledge here. But could someone answer the question as to why women aren't allowed to do Kirtan in SachKhand Sri Harmandir Sahib Ji. i have heard from people that they used to be until around the 1970-1980. Couldor someone help with this. i also advise all of the people arguing here to read the book Se Kinehiya. Sant Harnam Singh Ji Rampur Khera Wale were a Puran Braham Giani who followed all of Guru Sahib Ji's Rehat.

http://www.sikhvibes.com/downloads/PDFs/Se%20Kinehiya%20-%20English.pdf

That th English Readable version if you want audiobook or Punjabi Version let know and will get to you asap with Maharaj's Kirpa.

Bhul Chuk Muaaf Sumat Bakhshan Satguru Ji.

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh ||

They aren't allowed except when they are goreh.

Obviously that needs to change

[UKLondonSikh 164]

@ onlyfive + 11Gurus1Jot ... yep everyone knows what the sehajdhari are far more guilty of or likely to indulge in ... but given that there are 7 billion people in the world ... and for argument's sake, let's say there are 28million Sikhs ... of whom perhaps 7 million are Kesdhari ... and perhaps 0.7 million may have partaken Amrit and not subsequently become patit ... can we really afford to be as morally restrictive in 2012 ... if by discouraging sehajdhari's ... we inadvertently prevent or delay them from coming into the Khalsa fold quicker as a result ... as well as de facto restricting Sikhi to areas of current day Punjab where Kesdhari appearance has historically been most common?

Even if all 28 million Sikhs did follow "outward" Rehat to the letter in all aspects ... surely, it goes without saying (based on reality that we have observed in our lives) that Sikhs as a Qaum would NOT be significantly better (pound-for-pound) than 6,972 million non-Sikhs in terms of how good our deeds+actions are before God's view? I've always been taught that in Sikhi our deeds + actions are much higher than "outward" Rehat. So if a non-Sikh donates one of his kidneys to a stranger needing a transplant ... oh insaan vi Khalsa Panth vichoh manay'ah jaa sak'dhaii in the wider sense of what Khalsa means and why Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj gathered the Sangat at Vasakhi 1699. Particularly bearing in mind that Panj Pyaaray stood up out of say 50,000.

Would you not feel more comfortable if say of the global Khalsa Panth only 1% of the 700,000 Khalsay were Punjabi given that we surely cannot realistically expect a majority of the world's population outside of Punjab to become Kesdhari, let alone become Amritdhari. Sachai + insaaniyat can obviously not be restricted on the basis of the geographic location of one's birth. Ie wouldn't everyone in the Panth (including those who are clearly not suited) becoming a Khalsa defeat the whole purpose of what Guru Sahib was introducing? If non-Sikhs were to initially become sehajdhari that wouldn't that be the best hope of Rehat truly being followed by a dedicated minority within the wider Qaum rather than so many turning patit in Punjab?

I hope I don't offend either of you brothers with my post as I know in my heart that you both follow Sikhi to a much greater degree than I do ,as sadly I'm not yet spiritually advanced enough to be Amritdhari myself (for which i respect you unreservedly on that).

Rabh Rakha

[Only five 1,125]

@ onlyfive + 11Gurus1Jot ... yep everyone knows what the sehajdhari are far more guilty of or likely to indulge in ... but given that there are 7 billion people in the world ... and for argument's sake, let's say there are 28million Sikhs ... of whom perhaps 7 million are Kesdhari ... and perhaps 0.7 million may have partaken Amrit and not subsequently become patit ... can we really afford to be as morally restrictive in 2012 ... if by discouraging sehajdhari's ... we inadvertently prevent or delay them from coming into the Khalsa fold quicker as a result ... as well as de facto restricting Sikhi to areas of current day Punjab where Kesdhari appearance has historically been most common?

Life is about growing up, becoming better than yesterday, learning from mistakes, and never stop learning. It took about 250 years for the Panth to grow up to it's full potential. On the way there, those that kept growing, were rewarded, those that stopped were told to keep going, those who after being told to keep growing and they didn't listen, were shown the door from doing seva in Guru's court. Those that denied the teaching even after being told many times to stop their bad behaviour, but held on to the Guru's court with force were burnt alive. There are many different types of people in the Khalsa Panth. This is not a new occurence we are seeing. There is no reason to worry or fear anything. Guru Sahib and Khalsa Panth never discourage a person who is moving forward in Sikhi. Even Amritdharis are not learnt, they still need to grow, but they are further down the road of Sikhi than others. Those that are jeaslous are usually the ones that stop learning and hold on to the Guru's court by force. Do you see the Khalsa Panth getting up and burning such people alive? The Khalsa has every right to do this. Instead the Khalsa Panth is still using the method Guru Sahib uses with those who keep on learning, giving pyare. Not because the Khalsa wants to increase numbers of the Panth because they actually see Sri Vaheguru Ji Maharaj in the person, even though they still disrespect Maharaj. If you look at it from a Sikh history perspective, then these guys should be glad the Khalsa is very passive today. And they are passive today because they are waiting for these guys to change. It takes a lot of humility to sit back day in and out to watch Maharaj be disrespected. Today there is no more pyare or humility left in people. These same people wouldn't stand a second if there family member or themselves are slandered. They would go to great lengths just to get you back in a very vicious way and they have shown they are capable of this kind of stuff. Look at the Khalsa, who is full of so much wisdom, so much shakti, so much bir rass....in a second they can change the meaning of vicious, but they are waiting for those to learn, who don't want to learn.

If it's about perspective then that's how i see it.