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Why Are There No Women Granthies In Darbar Sahib?

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Guest AjeetSinghPunjabi

mainly because people think people will start perving on them, in gurdwara male raagis do kirtan infront of men and not women, it is for gender thing really and mainly. Some people try introduce at times segregation at times some people have mentioned some women get molested in harmander sahib some have said people grab there chest or other forms of lustful points of assault. Also women can't do ishnan with men they can't do it infront of everyone, women have a small separated room. some might ask if men and women are equal why don't men and women share toilets in public or even in gurdwaras, men and women share toilets at home. So to avoid perverts or other things involving lust from happening some provisions take place however we do have istri sabhas in gurdwaras where women do kirtan. next people will ask why can't women be panj pyare?

what if the male ragi or the guy in the sangat happens to be gay <edited> ??

kaam still persists in that case lol

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im all for bibya doing seva in darbar sahib..but there must be a reason why they have not been allowed to as of yet...why were they never allowed to do kirtan?..there must be a reason..

You are being sexist. What can be the reason?????? Bibis do kirtan in almost all other Gurdwaras .

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mainly because people think people will start perving on them, in gurdwara male raagis do kirtan infront of men and not women, it is for gender thing really and mainly. Some people try introduce at times segregation at times some people have mentioned some women get molested in harmander sahib some have said people grab there chest or other forms of lustful points of assault. Also women can't do ishnan with men they can't do it infront of everyone, women have a small separated room. some might ask if men and women are equal why don't men and women share toilets in public or even in gurdwaras, men and women share toilets at home. So to avoid perverts or other things involving lust from happening some provisions take place however we do have istri sabhas in gurdwaras where women do kirtan. next people will ask why can't women be panj pyare?

People will start perving on them?? Mind you, people are in a gurdwara, not it some club.. What king of a view is that? Kirtan is done not only in front on men, women are also present?

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How about we just let the bibian raise this issue? By all books, there are no restrictions. If bibian really want a particular sewa then they have to work for it and earn it. Also, such issues need to be raised by those who live locally rather than someone from other country (huge cultural differences).

Without any offense to all my brothers and sisters.. It is a shocking reality that our sisters in Punjab are not active anywhere in any field. How many kaur activist we see today (both here and there) ?

Take a look at this forum, how many bibian we see discussing any social or political issue at hand? Either it is all singhs fault for not providing platform or either bibian taking their freedom granted.

Bibian and Banday can do any job in our sikhi society however preferences can be given to certain gender in various fields.

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This issue has been brought up several times in the past few years. When we talk about bibia being granthis in the Darbar Sahib, I always think, how many "other" gurdwara sahibs have their head granthis / main appointed keertani as bibia inside and outside of India? I have seen a few keertani jathas of bibia, seen bibia who do occasional keertan seva in local gurdwaras and also seen a bibi doing katha, but I haven't heard about many doing the seva as the main person in any gurdwara sahib. Before jumping onto the pavitar seva of Darbar Sahib, bibia first need to become active in other gurdwara sahibs.

And, it would look better if bibis were taking more interest in this topic. lol

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From the time of baba budha ji to now not one bibi has been granthi of sri darbar sahib hence sri darbar sahib granthis being called ' Singh Sahibs'. I have not till date seen a woman as a granthi of any gurdwara let alone an itihaasik gurdwara. if women really want to become granthis of itihasik gurdwaras, they have to meet the requirements of being able to read gurbani shudh and do katha , etc etc. but personally i doubt the sgpc will take that step as of yet allowing bibis to do nething in darbar sahib. above poster made excellent point - if women are not granthis in normal local gurdwaras how can we expect them to b granthis @ sri darbar sahib? families dont want their sons to b granthis and see it is a low profession job for lazy people, how will they allow their daughters to become granthis? how will women who have to take care of children/family etc be able to be able to take such a BIG responsibility of doing darbar sahib sewa. my views aside, i personally also think sampardas/ sant smaj etc will have big problems with this and be a big boulder infront any woman who wants to do this sewa. bibis can't do kirtan/ishnan sewa how will they do granthi sewa?

I think we're putting the status of sri darbar sahib granthi sahib as a v small thing that ne1 can do. well that is far from the case. To become granthi sahib of sri darbar sahib one has to be very well educated in Sri Guru granth sahib, Dri Dasam granth sahib, Panth parkash , Gurpartap Suraj Granth, gurbilas etc and be very good katha vachiks in gurbani and all other granths. if bibis want to do this sewa - like ''imakaur'' said '' Before jumping onto the pavitar seva of Darbar Sahib, bibia first need to become active in other gurdwara sahibs.''

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Darbar Sahib maryada has been heavily influenced by Udaasi and Nirmala Semperdais which had tendencies to lean towards Hindu (Sanatan) traditions in which women are looked down as being inferior or not "complete."

This is NOT the Sikh tradition.

Many historians regard Bebe Nanaki Ji as being the FIRST SIKH since it was her who recognized the Supreme Divinity of Guru Nanak Dev Sahib Ji.

So if a woman can the first Sikh, why can not she be sevadar or a Jathedar at our Takhts or Gurdwaras?

During Guru Amardas Sahib Ji's time when the Manji and Pirree system existed, out the highly respected 22 Gursikhs that held Manjis - a GurSikh Bibi was one of them : Bibi Sachan Sach.

Out the 146 Pirrees held, 35% of them were held by highly devout Sikh Bibis.

If Guru Sahib installed Bibis for this highest of sevas, there is no reason they can not do seva at Sri Dabar Sahib.

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Darbar Sahib maryada has been heavily influenced by Udaasi and Nirmala Semperdais which had tendencies to lean towards Hindu (Sanatan) traditions in which women are looked down as being inferior or not "complete."

This is NOT the Sikh tradition.

Many historians regard Bebe Nanaki Ji as being the FIRST SIKH since it was her who recognized the Supreme Divinity of Guru Nanak Dev Sahib Ji.

So if a woman can the first Sikh, why can not she be sevadar or a Jathedar at our Takhts or Gurdwaras?

During Guru Amardas Sahib Ji's time when the Manji and Pirree system existed, out the highly respected 22 Gursikhs that held Manjis - a GurSikh Bibi was one of them : Bibi Sachan Sach.

Out the 146 Pirrees held, 35% of them were held by highly devout Sikh Bibis.

If Guru Sahib installed Bibis for this highest of sevas, there is no reason they can not do seva at Sri Dabar Sahib.

Well said!

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How about we just let the bibian raise this issue? By all books, there are no restrictions. If bibian really want a particular sewa then they have to work for it and earn it. Also, such issues need to be raised by those who live locally rather than someone from other country (huge cultural differences).

Without any offense to all my brothers and sisters.. It is a shocking reality that our sisters in Punjab are not active anywhere in any field. How many kaur activist we see today (both here and there) ?

Take a look at this forum, how many bibian we see discussing any social or political issue at hand? Either it is all singhs fault for not providing platform or either bibian taking their freedom granted.

Bibian and Banday can do any job in our sikhi society however preferences can be given to certain gender in various fields.

And why on earth cannot banday not raise this very important issue and leave it to bibian to sort out the mess caused by banday in the first place.

Our Gurus gave equal status to women centuries back when gender equality was never heard of and here we have gender bias going on in our highest

religious place, Darbar Sahib.

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Did bibya do kirtan during Guru Ram Das Ji time at darbar sahib ? I dont think so.. Like singh ji said there must be a reason. Therefore plz stop changing the rules and leave it how it is!

KaviSingh, how do you know? Kindly post any references that prove ONLY men did kirtan in those times.

Do you think that during Guru Amardas Ji's time the Sikh Bibis who held a Peeree did parchar but for some reason they were not allowed to do Kirtan?

Why is there such an allergic reaction to Bibis? We need to learn to be Sikhs of Guru Sahib and not blind followers of Sanatanism.

We Sikhs keep making up rules as we go along, and then state that it is puratan maryada from Guru Ji's time.

Take a look at the picture below from the 1970's. It has Bibi's sitting with the Singhs doing Kirtan at Sri Dabara Sahib.

During that time one of the Bibi did do Kirtan, she was an American Sikh Bibi.

Nowadays they will not even let a Bibi sit in that area. So much for equality or "Puratan Maryada".

3473c68433a7ffp333b3enu3d32843e233b3e3a3c33ewsnr.jpg

(Above) Sikh Bibis sit along with men reciting Kirtan at Sri Dabar Sahib during the 1970s. This is no longer allowed.

(Below) Sikh Bibis recite Kirtan outside Sri Akal Takht Sahib.

Kirtan_at_Akal_Takat.jpg

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All these sevas not being doing by women is a direct result of a lack of resources for them to gain the right skills from. Apart from countries like Canada and the UK where still only few gursikhs have the opportunity to do santhiya and even fewer have the chance to learn to do katha, have a look in India how many deray or taksaals do you know of that teach women or encourage women to learn? The problem is that no singhni in India (also to some extent the West) is expected to or even encouraged to do santhiya, learn to read lareevaar, learn to do katha, do maharaj's seva...

The shortfall is at the initial level, there are only a few mahapurakh like Baba Jagjit Singh ji that I know encourage women to learn brahm vidiya but otherwise I know of few other places women can go to essentially become "gianis".

Quite sad

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