Sex Attacker On Royal Barge During Jubilee Pageant

[fightingsingh]

Yes they can and that's not the issue.

The issue is that Rana was content in projecting himself in a high profile representative role within the mainstream and the Sikh community. This is not an isolated incident, we have some Gurdwara pardaans with baggage and some who are still known for their immoral activities. All this does is put a on a façade and encourage hypocrisy, further pushing those away who feel the Sikh institutes are all full of corruption, But we don't have any collective influence in influencing who puts themselves forward as a representative of the Sikh Community. This just shows us as a collective Sikh community we lack a real relationship with the elite or influential in British Society, it can be too easily hijacked by individuals with their own agendas.

This seems like an unfair assessment that you have made of Rana. He did the crime and did the time. He has atoned himself by throwing himself into activities that will benefit the Sikh community. He has never projected himself as a 'Sikh leader' as many have suggested on this thread. He has simply been working in a niche area that he finds interesting namely joint historical relations between Sikhs and the British. However, the Sikh Community has benefited in many ways from his work. The Duleep Singh project and statue unveiling in 1993 onwards have helped to increase the network between the Sikh Community and the British.

After all, it is in our interest that our shared Anglo-Sikh heritage is recognised and remembered. It is also in our interest that networks are formed with the government and with royalty. It is only through these formed networks that other agendas can be driven.

Somebody has to do this kind of work and they have to be suited to it. Dont get me wrong, given his background, Rana would be ill-suited as Jathedar of Akal Takhat Sahib or even president of a gurdwara. However, when it comes to preservation of Sikh history, heritage and networking with middle/upper class goray, then Rana is pretty good at his job.

After all, he was invited by Prince Charles to attend the boat party. Why should he not have gone? Why should he continue to shun the limelight because of his past convictions which are now 26 years old? It seems like an unfair burden to put on someone.

From zoltansingh's post, it is clear that certain members of the Federation were not happy with Rana partaking in the roles that he was. There is a sense of jealousy in their statements. Perhaps because he was in 'media facing roles' and they were not? Perhaps because he was being photographed with royalty and politicians and they were not?

Rana said 'there is a very serious debate and struggle within the Sikh community as to how it deals with the Government and who represents it.' And this, in my mind, is what this is all about. This is simply a classic power struggle between Sikhs as to who is top dog and who has the power to make his/her voice heard. Clearly, certain individuals in the Federation believe that this should be them and not Rana, and so have gone to the press with his previous convictions in a bid to humiliate him and destroy his credibility. However, in doing so, they have also damaged the Sikh image in the media, embarrassed us all and damaged the work done by the Anglo-Sikh heritage trail and the in-roads made into top circles, which could benefit our whole community.

Of course it is possible that it is not certain individuals in the Federation. It could be someone else with similar motives. This is just my theory.

[JagtarSinghKhalsa]

This seems like an unfair assessment that you have made of Rana. He did the crime and did the time. He has atoned himself by throwing himself into activities that will benefit the Sikh community. He has never projected himself as a 'Sikh leader' as many have suggested on this thread. He has simply been working in a niche area that he finds interesting namely joint historical relations between Sikhs and the British. However, the Sikh Community has benefited in many ways from his work. The Duleep Singh project and statue unveiling in 1993 onwards have helped to increase the network between the Sikh Community and the British.

After all, it is in our interest that our shared Anglo-Sikh heritage is recognised and remembered. It is also in our interest that networks are formed with the government and with royalty. It is only through these formed networks that other agendas can be driven.

Somebody has to do this kind of work and they have to be suited to it. Dont get me wrong, given his background, Rana would be ill-suited as Jathedar of Akal Takhat Sahib or even president of a gurdwara. However, when it comes to preservation of Sikh history, heritage and networking with middle/upper class goray, then Rana is pretty good at his job.

After all, he was invited by Prince Charles to attend the boat party. Why should he not have gone? Why should he continue to shun the limelight because of his past convictions which are now 26 years old? It seems like an unfair burden to put on someone.

From zoltansingh's post, it is clear that certain members of the Federation were not happy with Rana partaking in the roles that he was. There is a sense of jealousy in their statements. Perhaps because he was in 'media facing roles' and they were not? Perhaps because he was being photographed with royalty and politicians and they were not?

Rana said 'there is a very serious debate and struggle within the Sikh community as to how it deals with the Government and who represents it.' And this, in my mind, is what this is all about. This is simply a classic power struggle between Sikhs as to who is top dog and who has the power to make his/her voice heard. Clearly, certain individuals in the Federation believe that this should be them and not Rana, and so have gone to the press with his previous convictions in a bid to humiliate him and destroy his credibility. However, in doing so, they have also damaged the Sikh image in the media, embarrassed us all and damaged the work done by the Anglo-Sikh heritage trail and the in-roads made into top circles, which could benefit our whole community.

Of course it is possible that it is not certain individuals in the Federation. It could be someone else with similar motives. This is just my theory.

The news reports regarding Harbinder Singh Rana came as a surprise to the Federation as many of us were busy preparing for the June 1984 event on Sunday 10 June.

As far as I am aware the matter of Harbinder Singh Rana on the Royal barge was not even discussed in Federation circles.

Harbinder Singh Rana has been doing excellent work as part of the Maharaja Duleep Singh Trust and the Anglo-Sikh Trail.

For many years the Federation and Maharaja Duleep Singh Trust/Anglo-Sikh Trail have co-existed with mutual repect for each others work.

fightingsingh you need to explore some other theories and not speculate.

Eventually the source of the news story will come out - the Federation is an easy escape goat at this stage.

The whole issue has been most damaging to the Sikh community, Harbinder S Rana and his family. It is best if we all try and put this behind us.

[fightingsingh]

The news reports regarding Harbinder Singh Rana came as a surprise to the Federation as many of us were busy preparing for the June 1984 event on Sunday 10 June.

As far as I am aware the matter of Harbinder Singh Rana on the Royal barge was not even discussed in Federation circles.

Harbinder Singh Rana has been doing excellent work as part of the Maharaja Duleep Singh Trust and the Anglo-Sikh Trail.

For many years the Federation and Maharaja Duleep Singh Trust/Anglo-Sikh Trail have co-existed with mutual repect for each others work.

fightingsingh you need to explore some other theories and not speculate.

Eventually the source of the news story will come out - the Federation is an easy escape goat at this stage.

The whole issue has been most damaging to the Sikh community, Harbinder S Rana and his family. It is best if we all try and put this behind us.

Agreed. It is encouraging to hear of the mutual respect and cooperation between Federation and Anglo-Sikh Heritage trail. Hopefully the source of the story will come out soon and put and end to any speculations. It is important for all of us to support each other and to put panthic progress over individual ambition.

[VanHelsingh]

Everyone must have the opportunity for redemption. Who knows what kind of maari kismat is written for somebody that they have to experience such badnaami amongst society (of course I wouldn't even attempt to understand the experiences of the victims, who must remain at the forefront of our thoughts).

It would be a pretty depressing life if, once we commit a crime or a sin, there is never any way back.

[SarabhaPanjab]

irreparable damage to Sikh image.

unbelievable stupidity on him and those around him for allowing him to be in that position.

The the press have had a field day (especially B@stard hindustan press).

the worst PR for Sikhs in UK since i can remember.

No point in any counter-arguments as the masses are never going to read it, the damage is done.

Also, who gives him the right to be a so called "sikh leader"? yes he has served his time, which is the law of the land, but not a Sikhi law.

Is he amritdhari? has he been pesh? has akal thakt allowed him to be a "Sikh Leader"?

[Pehlvan]

If someone has that sort of history they shouldn't project themselves as a representative/leader of Sikhs. Recently we have also seen a convicted Tax fraudster being a presenter on the Sikh channel. If you've got that sort of past then just have some SHARAM and don't try and project yourself.

[VanHelsingh]

If someone has that sort of history they shouldn't project themselves as a representative/leader of Sikhs. Recently we have also seen a convicted Tax fraudster being a presenter on the Sikh channel. If you've got that sort of past then just have some SHARAM and don't try and project yourself.

That's the other side of it. It's a rather delicate issue.

[JSinghnz]

irreparable damage to Sikh image.

unbelievable stupidity on him and those around him for allowing him to be in that position.

The the press have had a field day (especially B@stard hindustan press).

the worst PR for Sikhs in UK since i can remember.

No point in any counter-arguments as the masses are never going to read it, the damage is done.

Also, who gives him the right to be a so called "sikh leader"? yes he has served his time, which is the law of the land, but not a Sikhi law.

Is he amritdhari? has he been pesh? has akal thakt allowed him to be a "Sikh Leader"?

Since when did Akal Takht start allowing anyone to be a "Sikh Leader"?

Don't lose your sleep by making statements like "irreparable damage to Sikh image".

[proactive]

I would have thought the bigger news story was that a bunch of inbred parasites who are still in possession of stolen goods from various countries (ie koh-i-noor) are able to get the country to spend millions of pounds in celebrating the fact that the chief handler of stolen goods has been living off the state for the last 60 years! This at a time when the counrtry is in recession and people are struggling to make ends meet.

[dalsingh101]

I have to add this.

I think since 9/11 Sikhs (especially keshdhari/amritdhari SIkhs) have become absolutely obsessed with getting what they believe is positive media portrayals in the west.

Whilst I can maybe understand this in places like the US, where apnay are still apparently abused and attacked like brown people were in the 70s and 80s in the UK (actually maybe even worse than this?), in the UK Sikhs can generally stand firm on the reputations they have made for themselves over the last few decades.

What I see in the UK though, are these really slimy attempts to get a high profile through sucking up to the establishment, and those who do it are always this generic type of posh speaking, wannabe toff ponce, who always seem to have that funny 'ready to be aghast at a moments notice' look on their boothi - like someone has rammed a broomstick up their ar5e. I digress.....

What I'm trying to get at is just how craven we have become for 'status enhancing' coverage in the white media. When Rana was spotted on that barge, reading the ecstatic ejaculations of people on forums like Sikhchic was strange for me because I got a sense that people were basking in Rana's 'glory'. Obviously that all went pear shaped with later revelations. I mean I have to ask......have we become media whores of sorts?

What is even more disconcerting is the underlying motives of this. Again the question has to be posed: Does this need to be 'accepted' stem from some deeper underlying insecurity on our people's part? To me the most confident people are the ones who appear to not give a flying sh1te in this way, and go about their business in a cool, confident and relatively detached manner.

Have we reduced ourselves to becoming elated at what could easily be seen as 'token representation'?

If so, what is that saying about our people today and are there important lessons to learn about this Rana thing in terms of how fragile and outright treacherous this whole media thing is?

Last point. We make noise about Pak perverts and the issue gets a lot of our blood boiling. I'm not a conservative guy, I have had plenty of friends who've done time for violent acts against other violent people, but there IS something very stigmatic about sexual offenses, more so than others, as I think Chatanga alluded to in a post a while back.

So I think we are caught in some form of dichotomy here, where we go red faced in rage about perverts praying on Sikh girls, but then speak of forgiveness

when someone from our own community does something comparative (though I know there is a difference in terms of the organised and 'group' nature of the grooming and abuse that goes on from Paks). Now I'm not saying we should hang and flog Rana, but still, it wouldn't be bad idea for some of us to reflect on exactly what our positions on such matters are. If Rana is to be forgiven and his transgressions overlooked, tomorrow would you be able to do the same for some Pakistani nonce who has served his time for abusing apneean and found Allah in prison? Essentially, do we need to approach this subject with some level of consistency?