Niddar nang and his letter

[Guest]

I don't even think he is a Hindu, actually he is an insult to Hindus. Even Hindus are quite pious and believe in prem bhagti, even though we have different beleifs there is no hatred or disrespect for Hindu dharam.

There are some haters among the hindutva fundamentalists and RSS distortionists but in general Hindus are very good people and many were shocked and hated the injustice served against the sikhs in 1984. Some of our Hindu neighbours in jalandhar included.

Nidar seems to be someone who likes to sit on the fence with one cheek on each side

Which I think he is trying to use his snatan Mat to divide Hindus and Sikhs.

Its quite nice that some Hindus consider us their brothers, but we are a seperate distinct niyara panth. We are brothers to all mankind.

Just like Guru Nanak was a brother to bhai mardana a sufi muslim, and the low caste people that were shunned and abused by society.

Popular nihang bola goes

HUM AKALI SABH KE VALI HUMARA PANTH NIYARA HAI

We havent caused any trouble, its nidar who started it by insulting us and our shaheeds. Offering people like butta singh, who does loads of seva for youth, out claiming with great ego that he is unchallenged getting bare chaamal and thinking he can get away with it.

Well remember everyone somerset road gurdwara tomorrow 7pm lets see if he turns up to defy the sangat.

Then its on to leicester...

You are doing the panth a real seva.

[chatanga]

The Singh Sabha was a reaction to the growth of the Arya Samaj in the Punjab and the attacks on Sikhs by Brahmins.

The SS lehar started when 4 Sikhs from Amritsar declared their intention to renounce Sikhi and become Christians. This was in 1888.

Fine if one believes kirtan should be done in raags only this is fine. What is the need to slander Gursikhs at the same time? Why not post a picture of Nihangs who also do kirtan on harmonium without raag? If a Nihang Singh does kirtan without raag is it parvaan?

Good point. why is it kirtan if nihangs do it on harmoniums? i welcome the day when kirtanis, not those who do dharna, but kirtanis do proper kirtan in our Guru's house. I would love if all the harmoniums used in our guru's house were to be used for bonfire night this year. that would be a result,.

[proactive]

See, for me the problem is that the discussion about the impact of colonialism on Sikhs and the Panjab, and the way Sikhs may have begun to perceive their faith in a subtly different way than before in light of the European ideas they were exposed as a consequence of being militarily subjugated and colonised - important stuff that deserves our full attention and analysis - gets sidelined by personalities.

If we now all ignore Niddar, we still have important questions to ask and answer about this period of our itihaas and its impact on us. If Niddar with his strange ways brings this topic (which too many apnay seem too frightened to face) to the fore (even inadvertently), then I think that good has been done - even if I vehemently disagree with his beliefs - which I do.

Sometimes you need controversial catalysts to force our lot to get off their a55 and study things deeper - sadly we seem reactionary rather than proactive. Niddar has his role - and I'm not connected to him or a fan of his at all.

Reform movements take place in most religions, it usually occurs when the religion has lost it's vitality and is at it's lowest ebb. This was the case with Sikhi in the 1870s. The Singh Sabha as well as the Arya Samaj were organisations that believed that the decline both respective religions were suffering was due to the fact that many rituals had come into the religions which had not basis in the holy books of each religion. The Arya Samaj believed that idol worship was a later development and was never a part of the Hindu religion. For the Singh Sabha the fact that many Sikhs worshipped idols, Guga Pir and Sakhi Sarwar, showed that Sikhi needed to go back to the teachings of the Guru Granth Sahib.

Being against Sikhs worshipping idols does not necessarily mean you also need to supportive of British rule. The case in point is the Nirankaris and the Namdharis. You couldn't get more anti-British than the Namdharis in th 1870s and yet the fact thing that many Kukas did on become disciples of Baba Ram Singh was to go back to their villages and destroy the Jathera 'mattis' that dotted each village.

The automatic assumption seems to be that the Sikhs of the 1840s were following the same Sikhi that existed at the times of Gurus and therefore if there is evidence that those Sikhs believed in a Sikhi that is substantially different from the Sikhi of today then the Sikhi of today is false and their Sikhi was correct. What the Singh Sabha did was look at the validity of each rite and ritual that Sikhs took part in through the teachings of the Guru Granth Sahib.

[West London Singh]

Do any of the Singhs know more about Nidar Singh's background? 2 things strike me as very strange, and may help in understanding how he became to be what he is. I'm curious because it will also shed some light potentially on those who have helped him become what he is, and we should also be aware of them, especially if they are in the UK.

1. Nidar Singh claims he spent 11 years in Punjab starting 1984. Ordinarily this wouldn't be an issue, but, anyone who visited or lived in Punjab or India in the 1984 - 1997 period knows that during the peak Kharku Lahir years, Sikh boys and men would routinely get picked up, asked to come to the village dharamsala for a random inspection etc, and harassed if there was ANY inkling of political leanings. I find it highly surprising that a 18-year old British Sikh who was in India under the pretence of 'Learning a Martial Art' managed to stay undetected in Punjab for 11 years. He would have been the first one to get picked up when the Police were doing rounds of the village, as they would have said "Oh Munda England Toh Aiya, koi Gatka Sikhan". If he didn't get picked up, then who was protecting him? NO ordinary Sikh was immune to harassment in that period, except Cats and other plants.

2. Look at the picture of Nidar Singh after he comes back to UK in 1995 to get married in the Sun article here: http://www.thesun.co...s/3922113/.html. This picture is with his wife and daugther, so it is at least 1996, or possibly even 1997 as his daughter looks about 1 year old. Why is it that after spending 11 Years in a Nihang Dal and following their Maryada, and subsequently another 2 years in the UK, he is wearing a Punjab-Pagh, and sporting a Gatra over his shoulder? Is this not the exact type of Sikh Image he now spends his time criticising? Did Nidar actually come back from Punjab believing the stuff he is spouting today, or did he change sometime between 1995 and 2000? And if so, then who in the UK helped him transition? We all know that he originally started with 'Hatka', 'Jhatka Gatka' etc and morphed into his SV today - who in the UK helped him on that transition, because having heard him speak and write, I don't believe he is intellectually capable of doing that all by himself.

Remember how they finally got Al Capone ?

We need to bombard the Department of Work & Pensions with letters. Lets ensure their fraud department launch an investigation.

All the while probably been claiming public money fraudulently. If he was in India, as he claims, for several years from 1984 onwards, let the DWP investigate why he was (probably) claiming jobseekers and family tax credit and working tax credit in this country.

Given that he states in mainstream interviews that he makes his living as a working class factory worker, is Her Majesty's Revenue & Customs aware of his income from books and public appearances etc ?

Shouldn't the DWP and the HMRC be given a detailed list of all the book signings, museum exhibitions, paid speeches etc etc etc ?

Now I'm not a gambling man but I'd be willing to bet good money that this compulsive liar has been lying to the authorities as much as he's been lying to Sikhs. In the end, a geezer always gets bitten in the kyhber by his own lies. Lets bombard the DWP and the HMRC with details........and then, a few months down the line, lets use the freedom of information rights to find out if there'd been any fraud investigations in the wolverhampton area.

1984 to 1997 ? Who paid the mortgage during this period then ? Who paid the rates ? Who paid the bills ? If it was me, the taxpayer, I want that man arrested, charged and publicly humiliated.

One way or the other the man is lying to someone. He's either lying to us or he's lying to the authorities. All I'm saying is there's more than one way to expose a liar. You just need to think outside the box.

[Shastar Man]

Wjkk wjkf,

Veerji does anyone know if anything happened today at somerset rd gurdwara, also nidar is adamant

that he has not been kicked out by the nihangs in panjab. Is there anyway that a video featuring the jathedars of the various

Nihang dals stating that he has been kicked out? This would be the nail in the coffin...

Wjkk wjkf

[taran0]

The Morcha went very well, The sangat turned up ( 150-200 people ) and after the Rehraas Sahib and kirtan, the issue of Nidar was discussed. Nidar did not turn up. One of his students did come and was discussing the issue with some of the Singhs in the car park, but it was a peaceful discussion.

First the committee told how they had not heard of Nidar and at first he didn't approach them, he got some young kids to come and ask the committee if it was ok if they did some gatka training in the back hall, the committee thought it sounded good so let them in.

Once they were informed of Nidar's 'Koorr Parchar' they told him and his students that the class was being cancelled, Nidar got angry and said that the letters were fake and that he will not leave his class, and no one can stop him. The Committee didn't back down though and said that we have already cancelled your class and if you come back you better come prepared.

Someone then told of why everyone was here today and how Nidar has gone under the radar for 15 years. He does not go to regular Gurdwara programs and doesn't hang out with older members of the Sangat. he only hangs around with young people and he does his parchaar on the internet. The older members of the sangat were accepting of this as they don't really know how to use the internet.

Then each and every point was addressed to the sangat of his distortion of Sikh Niyarapan(uniqueness) and mixing his snatan ideology to create a Hindu-Sikh cult. The sangat was in agreement that His views were clearly of a nefarious nature. the literature prepared for the event showed snippets from his website where his true agenda is revealed, wrapped up in a very convincing argument of a universal ancient dharam.

Finally Nidars insulting of well respected Shaheeds and other Sikh Jathebandees was mentioned and his support of the nakli Nirankaris who were trying to disgrace Sikhi in 1970's at which many older Singhs were shocked.

The irony was that this all started at a Singh Sabha Gurdwara..... The sangat made a stand and successfully expunged this character from the Gurdwara.

A matta was passed that all the jathebandis, Siyaney, Naujawan present and all the sangat together would work towards removing this person from our Sikh Gurdwaras which include Guru Amardass Gurdwara, Leicester and Guru Tegh bahadur Gurdwara, Wolverhampton. the event passed peacefully and there was no major disturbances.

There was mention later after the event had finished that something happened in another part of Handsworth Wood, but this had nothing to do with the program and we are still yet to find out what exactly happened there.

[Guest]

The Morcha went very well, The sangat turned up ( 150-200 people ) and after the Rehraas Sahib and kirtan, the issue of Nidar was discussed. Nidar did not turn up. One of his students did come and was discussing the issue with some of the Singhs in the car park, but it was a peaceful discussion.

First the committee told how they had not heard of Nidar and at first he didn't approach them, he got some young kids to come and ask the committee if it was ok if they did some gatka training in the back hall, the committee thought it sounded good so let them in.

Once they were informed of Nidar's 'Koorr Parchar' they told him and his students that the class was being cancelled, Nidar got angry and said that the letters were fake and that he will not leave his class, and no one can stop him. The Committee didn't back down though and said that we have already cancelled your class and if you come back you better come prepared.

Someone then told of why everyone was here today and how Nidar has gone under the radar for 15 years. He does not go to regular Gurdwara programs and doesn't hang out with older members of the Sangat. he only hangs around with young people and he does his parchaar on the internet. The older members of the sangat were accepting of this as they don't really know how to use the internet.

Then each and every point was addressed to the sangat of his distortion of Sikh Niyarapan(uniqueness) and mixing his snatan ideology to create a Hindu-Sikh cult. The sangat was in agreement that His views were clearly of a nefarious nature. the literature prepared for the event showed snippets from his website where his true agenda is revealed, wrapped up in a very convincing argument of a universal ancient dharam.

Finally Nidars insulting of well respected Shaheeds and other Sikh Jathebandees was mentioned and his support of the nakli Nirankaris who were trying to disgrace Sikhi in 1970's at which many older Singhs were shocked.

The irony was that this all started at a Singh Sabha Gurdwara..... The sangat made a stand and successfully expunged this character from the Gurdwara.

A matta was passed that all the jathebandis, Siyaney, Naujawan present and all the sangat together would work towards removing this person from our Sikh Gurdwaras which include Guru Amardass Gurdwara, Leicester and Guru Tegh bahadur Gurdwara, Wolverhampton. the event passed peacefully and there was no major disturbances.

There was mention later after the event had finished that something happened in another part of Handsworth Wood, but this had nothing to do with the program and we are still yet to find out what exactly happened there.

Look at what can be done if the Sangat comes together!

[taran0]

just wanted to add there were many of his ex students present who had first hand experience of Nidar, and since have backed off from him, they were on hand to talk to some of Nidars new students, to talk of their experiences and what they had learnt after many years of being duped by Nidar.

[Singh559]

and his video

[Shastar Man]

Wjkk wjkf,

This is fantastic news, to all the sangat that made a stance yesterday, well done.

Get him out from leicester and wolverhampton gurdwara's next.

Wjkk wjkf.