Gay Sikh Twitter Account An Anti-Sikh Conspriacy Against Sikhism?

[kullykhalsa 123]

He is not a sikh ^^ but you are??

About time people started thinking themselves instead of allowing some random to tell you on a forum what is and what isnt rehat!

how many people have actually read the particular shabad and understood it and then depending on your personal circumstances your interpretation will be different

I for one dont think just because someone is gay you can say they are not sikh. Live and let live why we as sikhs feel we need to force maryada on people or force them into thinking our way i will never know. instead how about we all think about our own personal sikhi surely a better use of our time!

I also find it very interesting that of all these posts only Questioners is worth listening to (it has subsequently become popular), a lot of the other posts are just negative and arguing without thinking about what your actually arguing about.

[Jonny101 4,391]

I for one dont think just because someone is gay you can say they are not sikh. Live and let live why we as sikhs feel we need to force maryada on people or force them into thinking our way i will never know. instead how about we all think about our own personal sikhi surely a better use of our time!

Kully Khalsa Jee, no one is forcing maryadha on anyone. But we oppose anyone trying to change or alter the Maryadha in order to accommodate their Manmat lifestyle.

[kullykhalsa 123]

from the guys account i cant see where he says that being gay is acceptable or unacceptable he simply mentions it isnt expressedly forbidden (Waheguru seems not to impose limits on us instead letting us choose our way except for some bujjer kurehits)

Hes not trying to alter maryadha or change your rehit he may be adjusting it for his lifestyle but dont we all some in bigger way then others, unless your strictly following maryada i mean down to the absolute T, then who are we to say he is wrong completely and im guessing if we all followed maryada we'd have a bit more love and compassion for someone we are supposed to treat as a brother

[VanHelsingh 1,984]

I think most reasonable, fair-minded Sikhs on this site would say gays can lead the lifestyle they feel they must lead (even if most Sikhs disagree with it) but as long as it doesn't mean the Anand Karaj is affected. I can respect that to be honest. I guess it gets into weird territory when there's a gay Sikh who really feels strongly about Sikhi; that's when it becomes strange for all involved.

[Jonny101 4,391]

Hes not trying to alter maryadha or change your rehit he may be adjusting it for his lifestyle but dont we all some in bigger way then others, unless your strictly following maryada i mean down to the absolute T, then who are we to say he is wrong completely and im guessing if we all followed maryada we'd have a bit more love and compassion for someone we are supposed to treat as a brother

The Rehit Maryadha is very clear that the Anand Karaj is between a man and a woman. When gays and their supporters tried to make this injunction as though it is vague, the Akal Takht also wrote a Hukamnama in further support of the sanctity of the Anand Karaj. Many of us may not follow the Maryadha "down to the absolute T" due to our personal weaknesses, but we would never in our dreams try to change or alter the Rehit Maryadha in order to justify our weaknesses or manmat.

[Only five 1,124]

Why do these opinionated folks stay in hiding when Gurbani Veechar is happening on this forum. Gurbani has been presented on this topic of homosexuality. Nobody needs your opinion on this topic.

For the folks that ignored the thread that showed Gurbani speaking this topic, please take a look at this link:

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/72415-revealed-the-so-called-uk-indian-gays-pushing-the-anti-sikh-agenda/page-3

And here is the Gurbani that speaks on this topic:

ਪਥਰ ਪਾਲਾ ਕਿਆ ਕਰੇ ਖੁਸਰੇ ਕਿਆ ਘਰ ਵਾਸੁ ॥ ang 143

[kullykhalsa 123]

I suppose it boils down to what type of person you want to be.

Everyones INTEPRETATION of bani is different you do not have the entire say so on what is and what isnt maryada etc.

Now although i believe that a marriage in front of guru ji should be between man and a woman that is my PERSONAL interpretation and if said gay sikh was to question me i would advice him of the reasons why i BELIEVE that this is the reason.

Sikhi is personal and for too long we have had a sant ji says this and sant ji intepreted this in his katha and thats what i believe we have become sheep to these "sants" or these more "learned" people and then we wonder why the youth leave sikhi in droves because they are forced out for asking questions. They barely know the basics because its so regimented now by the patronising people who run our gurdwara and committees.

Read bani intepret for yourself be happy and everyone else who says no this is wrong or this isnt the correct way of doing this (not just in this issue) let them bark as they will never affect your life! Daya, Nimrata and Pyare are just some of the qualities that the majority of posters seem to miss on this forum (discounting Questioner/Neosingh/Mehtab Singh who always seem to exhibit these virtues and as such are the posters on this forum who actually change peoples minds or in other words bring people to the light)

[Jonny101 4,391]

Why do these opinionated folks stay in hiding when Gurbani Veechar is happening on this forum. Gurbani has been presented on this topic of homosexuality. Nobody needs your opinion on this topic.

For the folks that ignored the thread that showed Gurbani speaking this topic, please take a look at this link:

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/72415-revealed-the-so-called-uk-indian-gays-pushing-the-anti-sikh-agenda/page-3

And here is the Gurbani that speaks on this topic:

ਪਥਰ ਪਾਲਾ ਕਿਆ ਕਰੇ ਖੁਸਰੇ ਕਿਆ ਘਰ ਵਾਸੁ ॥ ang 143

No amount of reasoning will change the minds of those who have already made up their minds due to worldly influences. Gurmat is very clear that marriage is a holy union between a man and woman. But as the effects of Kaliyug become deeper etched into the minds of people, they are becoming more and more sexualized. Things that were unheard of or frowned upon are now becoming accepted amongst the Sikhs. There was a time when it would have been unheard of for a Sikh's daughter/sister getting married to a non-Sikh, but now it is the new "normal" with an increasing number of Muslim son in laws. Homosexuality was the last thing one would expect popping up as an issue amongst the Sikhs. But due to westernized attitudes of some Sikhs, they are now having a "chalta hai" type of attitude towards this sexual deviancy. With such changing attitudes, I wouldn't be surprised if in our lifetime we will see incest also becoming acceptable as the new "normal" in our society, and people saying "it's just love". In kalki avtar bani this is already predicted.

[POODNA 110]

Homosexuality is synonomous to sexual 'disorientation'

[N30S1NGH 3,149]

And here is the Gurbani that speaks on this topic:

ਪਥਰ ਪਾਲਾ ਕਿਆ ਕਰੇ ਖੁਸਰੇ ਕਿਆ ਘਰ ਵਾਸੁ ॥ ang 143

It's already been established anand karaj should not be between homosexuals but only sikh man and sikh woman.

But i just wanted to point out after research on this shabad..this shabad does not talks about homosexuals nor it condemns them to hell a) as khusrai is known as transexual/ਹਿਜੜੇ (3rd gender) not homosexuals b) mainly because shabad is talking about nature of fools by giving examples - deep water to a fish, vast sky do to the bird, cold do to stone, married life to a eunuch, sandalwood oil to dog, teaching deaf person, light before blind man, gold before herd of cattle etc at the end - by giving all these examples guru maharaj says- this is nature of fool everything he speaks is useless and wasted.

Lets not bring gurbani into this as we are inadvertently/advertently fall into misinterpertating gurbani which can be further hijacked by right wing element in our panth, uphelding maryada is good enough to ban anand karaj marriage between homosexuals.

[Only five 1,124]

It's already been established anand karaj should not be between homosexuals but only sikh man and sikh woman.

But i just wanted to point out after research on this shabad..this shabad does not talks about homosexuals nor it condemns them to hell a) as khusrai is known as transexual/ਹਿਜੜੇ (3rd gender) not homosexuals b) mainly because shabad is talking about nature of fools by giving examples - deep water to a fish, vast sky do to the bird, cold do to stone, married life to a eunuch, sandalwood oil to dog, teaching deaf person, light before blind man, gold before herd of cattle etc at the end - by giving all these examples guru maharaj says- this is nature of fool everything he speaks is useless and wasted.

Lets not bring gurbani into this as we are inadvertently/advertently fall into misinterpertating gurbani which can be further hijacked by right wing element in our panth, uphelding maryada is good enough to ban anand karaj marriage between homosexuals.

Jonny101 please tell this person what the meaning is and how the tuks are speaking on homosexuality. Anything I say goes right past this member. Sant ji put it clear as possible and then I translated it and put it down as clear as possible, but this member is still stuck on understanding it.

[Jonny101 4,391]

It's already been established anand karaj should not be between homosexuals but only sikh man and sikh woman.

But i just wanted to point out after research on this shabad..this shabad does not talks about homosexuals nor it condemns them to hell a) as khusrai is known as transexual/ਹਿਜੜੇ (3rd gender) not homosexuals b) mainly because shabad is talking about nature of fools by giving examples - deep water to a fish, vast sky do to the bird, cold do to stone, married life to a eunuch, sandalwood oil to dog, teaching deaf person, light before blind man, gold before herd of cattle etc at the end - by giving all these examples guru maharaj says- this is nature of fool everything he speaks is useless and wasted.

Lets not bring gurbani into this as we are inadvertently/advertently fall into misinterpertating gurbani which can be further hijacked by right wing element in our panth, uphelding maryada is good enough to ban anand karaj marriage between homosexuals.

1. Hijde are not hermaphrodites. Hijde are eunuchs. Besides these two categories, cross dressers have also traditionally been regarded as khusre.

Guru Jee in Kalki Avtar has predicted that in future there will be such a breakdown of man's moral character that man will begin to have all sorts of morally corrupt sexual relations instead of having sexual union with his wife. Homosexuality being given acceptance is just the beginning, even incest which is probably the most corrupt thing man can do will become societies norm. It is one thing for dunyaavi(worldly) people to accept this moral degradation, but Guru Ka Khalsa trying to justify this will mean even Sikhs have become morally corrupted and influenced by this Kalyugi Dunyaa.

Our mind which has accumulated many lifetimes of ਮੈਲ has forgotten it's true purpose. Many Gay supporters giving support to homosexuality say it is okay because sometimes animals also practice homosexuality so that some how makes it okay for humans to follow suit. But since when did humans look towards animals for moral guidance? our animalistic urges directs us to indulge in sexual enjoyment. But Vaheguru has made humans different from animals in the sense that we have the ability to control our urges, follow a rehit and worship Akal Purkh while animals dont. A Sikh tries to emulate the way of life of the Gurus and Bhagats. Did even one Guru, Bhagat Sahibaan practice homosexuality? NO! They were all married to women and had many children with them. That is the way our Gurus have shown us. They did not teach us to give in to our animalistic urges and forget the morality they lived by.

[N30S1NGH 3,149]

Heterosexuality is as immoral as Homosexuality as it both has kaam element in it. I m not disputing that homosexuality is not natural ..its not natural due to chemical psychological imbalances in the body. Gurbani also talks about - purakh mehi naar naar mehi purakhaa boojhahu breham giaanee || ang 879, alluding towards concept/interpretation of shiv shakat and divine play of vahiguroo- chemical imbalances in body, mind of purakh in nari, mind of nari in purakh trapped in body and mind of both sex.

Main point of my post was above shabad does not talk about homosexuality, it does mention trans sexuals-khusare but even then it does not talk about trans sexuality in specific as it going through all the examples showing at the end- showing such is "O Nanak, this is the nature of a fool-everything he speaks is useless and wasted. ||1|| . I haven't check kalki avtar but will read through over the weekend.

[Jonny101 4,391]

Heterosexuality is as immoral as Homosexuality as it both has kaam element in it. I m not disputing that homosexuality is not natural ..its not natural due to chemical psychological imbalances in the body. Gurbani also talks about - purakh mehi naar naar mehi purakhaa boojhahu breham giaanee || ang 879, alluding towards concept/interpretation of shiv shakat and divine play of vahiguroo- chemical imbalances in body, mind of purakh in nari, mind of nari in purakh trapped in body and mind of both sex.

Heterosexuality is immoral outside of the confines of marriage. That is why Guru Jee has told Sikhs to marry with a woman and live a Grahisti jeevan. Guru Jee has told Sikhs in Asa Ki vaar Bani of the importance of a woman in a man's life. Now let us look at our history. 10 Gurus(7 of Them wrote Bani) 4 Sikhs, 15 Bhagat Sahibaans, 17 Bhatts who contributed Bani, 5 Pyaras, 40 Muktas. That is around 91 Great Men in our ithihas who have made a huge impact on Sikhi. We know for a fact that not one practiced homosexuality, they are were Grahist. Because all of them(except Sri Guru Harkrishan Sahib Jee) was married to a woman and had many children. They showed us how to be a perfect father, son, husband and brother. They led by example by showing us that a marriage union is only between man and woman. They are the best of examples for Sikhs to follow. A Sikh who follows the examples of the Gurus, Bhagats and Saints will never condone or say homosexuality is "okay".

purakh mehi naar naar mehi purakhaa boojhahu breham giaanee

ਪੁਰਖ ਮਹਿ ਨਾਰਿ ਨਾਰਿ ਮਹਿ ਪੁਰਖਾ ਬੂਝਹੁ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ॥

ਅਰਥ: ਹੇ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨਾਲ ਡੂੰਘੀ ਸਾਂਝ ਰੱਖਣ ਵਾਲੇ! ਵੇਖ ਅਚਰਜ ਖੇਡ ਕਿ ਮਨੁੱਖਾਂ ਦੇ ਵੀਰਜ ਤੋਂ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀਆਂ ਪੈਦਾ ਹੁੰਦੀਆਂ ਹਨ ਤੇ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀਆਂ ਤੋਂ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਜੰਮਦੇ ਹਨ।

I am glad you quoted this tukh because it is in support of Grasti Jeevan between man and woman because Guru jee is saying here that if these two genders are not together then procreation cannot happen. If a man marries a man then it is like what Guru Jee says "ਪਥਰ ਪਾਲਾ ਿਕਆ ਕਰੇ ਖੁਸਰੇ ਿਕਆ ਘਰ ਵਾਸ". ਸੋ ਸੁਣਲੋ ਵੀਰਜੀ,ਕੋਈ ਪੁਰਸ਼ ਕਿਸੇ ਖੁਸਰੇ ਜਾਂ ਗੇ ਨਾਲ ਕੀ ਘਰ ਵਸਾਉਗਾ, ਯਾਨੀ ਘਰ ਤਾਂ ਇਕ ਨਾਰੀ ਨਾਲ ਹੀ ਵਸਦਾ ਹੈ

[N30S1NGH 3,149]

Heterosexuality is immoral outside of the confines of marriage. That is why Guru Jee has told Sikhs to marry with a woman and live a Grahisti jeevan. Guru Jee has told Sikhs in Asa Ki vaar Bani of the importance of a woman in a man's life.

Agreed no qualms there. However, sikhi supports both celibacy and gristh jeevan but thats a different topic all together that can be discussed on different thread.

Now let us look at our history. 10 Gurus(7 of Them wrote Bani) 4 Sikhs, 15 Bhagat Sahibaans, 17 Bhatts who contributed Bani, 5 Pyaras, 40 Muktas. That is around 91 Great Men in our ithihas who have made a huge impact on Sikhi. We know for a fact that not one practiced homosexuality, they are were Grahist. Because all of them(except Sri Guru Harkrishan Sahib Jee) was married to a woman and had many children. They showed us how to be a perfect father, son, husband and brother. They led by example by showing us that a marriage union is only between man and woman. They are the best of examples for Sikhs to follow. A Sikh who follows the examples of the Gurus, Bhagats and Saints will never condone or say homosexuality is "okay".

Agreed again but not sure why there is any need to compare between our historical sikh/bhagats figures and homosexuals? It does not make sense atleast for me, as it cannot be compared as i perceive homosexuality as mental imbalance inside. Homosexuality is more of body chemical imblances and pyschological issue in mind/mental issue in the mind just like as there are physical + mind issues within human, its all under maya. In fact every action done within in realm of panj chor/maya is consider dosh of mind- conscious and sub conscious mind- antish karan. So we are all under same boat both hetros and homos.

Regarding psychological imbalances i m not expert in that field. However listen to bhai jagraj singh basic of sikh video on homosexuality. It seems like he has done bit of research on this.

ਪੁਰਖ ਮਹਿ ਨਾਰਿ ਨਾਰਿ ਮਹਿ ਪੁਰਖਾ ਬੂਝਹੁ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ॥

ਅਰਥ: ਹੇ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨਾਲ ਡੂੰਘੀ ਸਾਂਝ ਰੱਖਣ ਵਾਲੇ! ਵੇਖ ਅਚਰਜ ਖੇਡ ਕਿ ਮਨੁੱਖਾਂ ਦੇ ਵੀਰਜ ਤੋਂ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀਆਂ ਪੈਦਾ ਹੁੰਦੀਆਂ ਹਨ ਤੇ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀਆਂ ਤੋਂ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਜੰਮਦੇ ਹਨ।

I am glad you quoted this tukh because it is in support of Grasti Jeevan between man and woman because Guru jee is saying here that if these two genders are not together then procreation cannot happen. If a man marries a man then it is like what Guru Jee says "ਪਥਰ ਪਾਲਾ ਿਕਆ ਕਰੇ ਖੁਸਰੇ ਿਕਆ ਘਰ ਵਾਸ". ਸੋ ਸੁਣਲੋ ਵੀਰਜੀ,ਕੋਈ ਪੁਰਸ਼ ਕਿਸੇ ਖੁਸਰੇ ਜਾਂ ਗੇ ਨਾਲ ਕੀ ਘਰ ਵਸਾਉਗਾ, ਯਾਨੀ ਘਰ ਤਾਂ ਇਕ ਨਾਰੀ ਨਾਲ ਹੀ ਵਸਦਾ ਹੈ

That could be one entry level interpretation. However this deep tukh cannot be confined to one meaning, there is lot more deeper meaning behind this tukh, it talks about khed of vahiguroo creation with maya (which includes chemical imbalances/psychological mindset of homosexuals as nothing is outside of maya), also shiv shakat- only bhramgyani who is outside of realm of maya can understand this khed of vahiguroo ji, read the whole pauri contextualize with rest of the pauri its alluding towards khed of vahiguroo on much more deeper context of vahiguroo maya khed where both hetro and homo are affected..!!

We don't believe in christian concept of vahiguroo that there is a shaitan and there is vahiguroo two seperate entities, everything indeed comes from vahiguroo's own maya and gunas trai gun (sato, rajo, tamo) and beautiful vahiguroo only (supreme consciousness) is indeed only one behind gunas and behind unique divine khed so so much sri guru gobind singh ji in sri akaal ustat, declared the below about most sensitive topic so there is no dualism left at all-:

ਕਹੂੰ ਬੇਦ ਬਾਨੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਕੋਕ ਕੀ ਕਹਾਨੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਰਾਜਾ ਕਹੂੰ ਰਾਨੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਨਾਰ ਕੇ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰ ਹੋ ॥

Somewhere Thou art the vedic hymns and somewhere the story of the elucidator of the mystery of love; somewhere Thou art Thyself the king, the queen and also various types of woman.

Kok kahani is kama sutra stories/mystery of love

Everything is a khel of vahiguroo, both hetro, homo, transexuals are in the realm of maya, dice is rolled as play by vahiguroo ji whoever gets the riddle and understand the khel by being nirlaip from maya (Gurmukh maya vich udasi - nirlaip) -sexual orientation labelling have nothing to do with it be it homo, hetro, transexual from spiritual stand point as gurmukh maya vich udasi state has everything to do with it... surely from sikh maryada stand point- anand karaj should be only between sikh man and sikh woman.