Caste System

[Son of Scthia]

Where is Bijla and Khalistani :wub: I actually want to hear a non biased opinion.

[Deep Singh]

This just made me laugh. (hiding)

Practising caste can be called casteism. Practising race can be called racism. What do you prefer? Choice is yours...

[Gupt daasan daas]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

veer je, i posted at the beginning of this thread

veer je, we have to stop being porud of a race we came from

were all the children of one father

tu mat pita hum barick tere

ok, lets look at like this

if we say jaats produced great sikhs like sant jarnail singh je khalsa bhindranwale, baba deep singh je, etc.

then the sodhi leinage can say they get our gurus

and the chamaurs will say we get bhagat ravidas je

and it wud get messed up

one veer je in this read posted something about race, it was a bani thuk

u shud look for it veer je, it was a very good thuk for this topic

and as for marrige

well

w cannot marry anyone who is not amridhari if we are amridhari

first of all, we can not have kids if we do that

its like a clean pot touching a dirty pot

then the dirty pot will make the clean pot dirty too

and we know khalsa means pure

thas one reason, ull never be able to have kids

the other reason, it when u get married, u shud find someone who is a clean jeevan, not a messed up jeevan

u shud go and check out ww.damdamitaksal.com

theres a reight on there

look at anand kaarajj maryada

but being jaat has nothing to do with being pure

so, the marrige thing wat u were saying veer je i dont think applyies.

be proud to be sikh veer je

we have so many bhagats from different castes and origions

just look att he 5 pyarae

they were all from different origions themselves, to show us not to divide ourselves in this way and to unite the human race, and to not have any caste

even our names get cut off when we take amrit

if i was gill or ho

thi or sodhi or anything like that, it would become singh or kaur

this shows we belong to the race and cast of the khalsa

guru je also said my caste and creed is khalsa

bhula chuka maf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Bijla Singh]

I don't know why you all are discussing where jatts come from. a long article in series was published in Ajit newspaper talking about 101 groups of jatts and their origination. find it and read it. someone said earlier that jatts come from europe. don't northern people come from aryans who came from europe like 4 or 5000 BC. not sure. anyways, It is very easy to say Sikh should marry a Sikh regardless of his/her group but reality is different. look at those jatts who married non-jatts and vice versa, how long do those marriages last? how many are happy? even after taking Amrit, they don't let go of their habits. mazbhees, bhapas, bhayeeas are the main groups who never want to break away from their natural habits. Diyal Singh in Delhi only takes bhayeeas students in his music school. any jatt schools said no to non-jatts?

no offense to anyone. this is a plain fact. AKJ has people from all different groups. I am from Amritsar and I have seen it, they don't get along very much. Someone in AKJ said "We are all mixed up together and bhapas, ramgharias and jatts don't get along with each other. my son doesn't wish to marry in AKJ anymore". how many people from jatt background support panchainees? how many people from non-jatts are in Babbars? why most people in Delhi do not support Khalistan? How many Kharkoos were from cities?

I used AKJ because this is the only group I see with people from different groups. no means to attack and sorry if I offended anyone. other jathebandis mostly include people from only one particular group i.e. Damdami Taksal has mostly people from jatt background.

Parents asking for particular group has less to do with caste.

just by knowing the group one can easily tell his habits. parents want their children to have happy marriage and share similar thoughts. and this is very hard if their children marry in some other group. this has more to do with habits, thinking and way of life not caste. mazbhees take amrit but eat meat when they join their relatives. lalas and bhapas are kanzoos and talk behind people's back. honesty is nowhere near them. when you joke with jatts they hardly get mad but Sikhs from other groups get mad very easily. why? if they are not into caste then why get mad? surely it means they love their group.

In Punjab, lower caste people have more opportunities. back in 70s, my parents told me that many Sikhs would use lower caste name to get more opportunities for their children in colleges because they get reserve seats. please correct me if this is wrong.

I am only talking about what people do and how they are like. jatts do less thinking and more fighting. I wrote what I have seen not heard from anyone. from Sikhi point of view this should not exist and we should try to eliminate it which would require becoming pooran Gursikhs after taking Amrit. People take Amrit but do not practice Sikhi much which is why we have these problems. I am not a big supporter of jattism or anything. I wanna see this whole caste thing go away. but again, this has less to do with caste but more to do with habits people get from their groups. in 18th century anyone who took Amrit, picked up sword and fought against Mughals. not happening anymore today. so habits didn't change after Amrit. lifestyle did not change. if this was not true, bhapas of Delhi would've raised arms against indian government.

This goes on but this is not an easy task. I did not write anything about general groups but people in Sikhism who come from these groups. correct me if I wrote anything wrong. My belief is that caste should not exist and no one should relate himself with any group but without proper jeevan it is impossible

. All groups should have same gursikhi lifestyle. Gurbani is there to guide us. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[Deep Singh]

Bhai Sahib, you just summoned up everything in the last words. Whatevery, whoever you are, as long as Jeevan-lifestyle doesn't change....there will be problems.

Son of Scthia: bro, i have read jatt history, i have read about the clans and their stories. i read through the three volumes by Rose that you mentioned that talks about all tribes, castes and clans of punjab. i am interested in our history...i mean punjab history and jatts are a part of it. but tell me one thing. whatever they have done before, lots of good things (warrior art), but also very bad things (drinking etc), how will being proud help you or me? if you agree only Waheguru gives freedom from human life and only Waheguru helps us, what advantages do you or i have of being from some particular background?? what means is our JEEVAN! whatever your background, get your moral correct, live spiritually high and worldly low...and you will be 'proud' of that...and lots of others also.

(now i feel hypocrate...sometimes we need to listen ourselves also! damm me.)

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

Son of Sythia Sahib, India has been invaded by many peoples...the Greeks, the Arabs, the Turks, the Afgans, the British, the Persians, etc. Unless you have had a genetic screening that shows unequivocally that you are a direct descendent of the Sycthians, do not be so sure that your race is only Sycthian. I would not be surprised if the Punjab people have some of the most diverse genetic composition in the world, considering it was the door for every invasion to India. And not all soldiers/generals leave a country after an invasion. How can you assume that the race of the Sycthians is so unique, preserved and preserved and that no race ever inter-married in the Punjab for thousands of years?

Sikhs have their own culture, that of Gurmat. Cunningham commented on the Sikhs "A living spirit possesses the whole Sikh people, and the impress of (Guru) Gobind (Singh) has not only elevated and altered the constitution of their minds, but has also operated materially and given amplitude to their physical frames. The features and external form of a whole people have been modifed, and a Sikh Chief is not more distinguishable by his stately person and free and manly bearing than a minister of his faith is by a lofty thoughtfulness of look which marks the fervours of his soul, and his persuasion of the near presence of the Divinity." Sikhs are noted as being their own race and people, with a physical presence unlike their ancestors.

[Bijla Singh]

or maybe your ancestors changed their name to get some reputation in the society. how do you know they were not from lower caste people? people have changed their names in the past. good thing Sikhs don't have to deal with it by being children of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[Son of Scthia]

I have physical evidence of out of India origin, my eye colour could not of possibly originated in India and I have never gotten called East Indian accept for my Kharra, my best freinds parents thought I was Greek for 7 years, until I myself finally told them.

The Scythian's branch of Massagetae were known to be more of a nomadic people then any other group that invaded into India. There were Kings since 300-400 B.C that belong to Scythian ancestry and their clan names still ring in and out of Punjab, also Jatt culture has the most similarities with the Scythians then any other. The Greeks that invaded during the Reign of Mullhi Jatts in present day Multan, this is where Alexander The Great, was injured. Alexander's father was also said to be killed by a Getae Tribesman, not necessarily a MassaGetae tribesmen, nonetheless it was a Getae. Scythians invaded India long before any other group, and migrated to India in waves, every you could say, 100 or 200 years. - Babar Singh Dhillon, not word for word, basic summary.

All these countries invaded pretty much long after the Jatts were already established in India.

The whole Mauryan Empire is also Jatt, clan name Maur comes from this lineage.

http://www.iranchamber.com/history/article...of_mauryas1.ppa

Take a look for yourself.

The Por Jatts claim Lineage from King Porus, I cant find the link atm and will produce it when I can.

Rajputs are also descendants of Jatts, they are called Rajputs since they converted to Hinduism while the Brahmans were trying to get rid of Buddhist

s in India, for status and wealth they joined Hindus to fight off the Brahmans. The Brahmans now say Rajputs are descendants of the Sun and Moon....rite. Point is Rajputs are a ethnic group that comes from Jatts, Jatts predate them and their clan names overlap with Jatt clan names. Theres no doubt about this, Bhatti, Chohan etc. Rajputs were also known to give away their daughters/wives to invading kings to protect their kingdoms, the Moghuls being one example.

This is not about producing better Sikhs or stronger Sikhs, I just want to practice Sikhi while staying true to my ancestors. This is not about status for me, for I will even marry a poor Jatts daughter because they are still Jatt. You get what I'm saying? Money/Status has no value for me, my blood does. So I'd really like the whole caste talk thrown away, and I'd like to learn more about Sikhi at the same time.

[Khalsa4ever]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

You may respect your ancestory and background... and that is fine... but if you refuse to consider to marry someone because they are not "Jatt" then you have already said that you are better than them, and are not a Sikh of the Guru.

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

[Bijla Singh]

if you had spent the same amount of time studying Sikhi........oh well. May Guru Ji bless you.